Author Topic: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?  (Read 1340 times)

Online Solar

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2013, 06:43:49 AM »

Indeed, this incestous relationship is the definition of neo-corporatism from what I understand from Wikipedia. Corporatism may also refer to economic tripartism involving negotiations between business, labour, and state interest groups to establish economic policy. I.e Norway has a corporatist economy due to the largest corporations that control the economy are 40-50% State owned, the National Labor Organization LO controls the unions of all of them, The Labor Party which is part of the structural organization of LO controls government and legislation. This type of organization is common too all huge multinational and national corporations. They don't want free market because they benefit from closed markets and state subsidies, so socialists are the natural ally for big capitalists. Calling it crony capitalism as the GOP Rhino's does is a big mistake, because it is corporatism (I guess they are afraid of offending their own corporatist interests). Big Business will always favor the socialist agenda, they did so in Nazi Germany and they do so now in USA and all other countries of the world.

Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Confederation_of_Trade_Unions

Excellent examples, and proof of Husein's agenda in taking over the auto industry (Hitler's Volks Wagen, Husien' Chevy Volt).
Then there is the destruction of our energy infrastructure in his attempt to force an inferior technology, in turn driving up the cost of energy, with an end goal of Nationalizing energy production.
Did I mention health care?
And the libs blindly follow, like cattle to the slaughter...
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline kramarat

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2013, 06:57:07 AM »
Excellent examples, and proof of Husein's agenda in taking over the auto industry (Hitler's Volks Wagen, Husien' Chevy Volt).
Then there is the destruction of our energy infrastructure in his attempt to force an inferior technology, in turn driving up the cost of energy, with an end goal of Nationalizing energy production.
Did I mention health care?
And the libs blindly follow, like cattle to the slaughter...


Or a wild pig.....

http://www.fastcompany.com/1055574/catch-wild-pig-parable-about-society-offers-valuable-lessons-leaders

Online Solar

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2013, 07:08:14 AM »
Or a wild pig.....

http://www.fastcompany.com/1055574/catch-wild-pig-parable-about-society-offers-valuable-lessons-leaders

I love that parable!
However I disagree with the analysis by the author of the site, he fails to see the pigs are also now running the farm.  :blink:
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline kramarat

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2013, 07:25:38 AM »
What I'm saying is Conservatives imposed their Religious views on govt before it was enabled, as opposed to the obverse occurring.


Some of them more than others. While most of them may have been Christians, they were fully aware of the fights and disagreements that took place between Christian denominations; disagreements that continue today. Granted, they couldn't have seen the influx of so many different religions coming, or even that there would be so many people with no religious affiliation at all, or even belief in God.

That said, the intentional vagueness in the first amendment in regard to religion, apart from saying that the government can't establish one, or pick one over the other, turned out to be brilliant.

This is an interesting read. I like what Heritage has to say about it too....."God" given or "Natural" rights.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06.html

Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2013, 08:12:37 AM »
I agree, so in conclusion the US Constitution should be the binding philosophy of all conservative movements?

Absolutely!!!

At least here in the US. The rest of the world can define and practice conservatism however they want.

As far as the WBC goes, they claim to be Christians that adhere to a strict literal translation of the Bible, but I'm not going to waste any time looking any further than that. I WILL continue to fight to make sure that they have the freedom to spew their vile hatred.

Well one can dedicate a whole thread to the disgusting WBC.

The problem though, how can we get all the conservative groups to work together with the constitution as framework?
Obama won with only 25-30% of the vote, so the socialists are not in majority, same in other countries around the world. The socialista are able to form minority government control because the conservatives don't work together.
In Norway this year its election, so it will be interestent to see but as always I fear the conservative groups will not work together. Just as the libertarians and social conservative will not work together in USA, the Christian peoples party, conservative party and the progress party (the most right wing party in norway) will not work together in Norway, even though in both countries "the right" is in majority.

And the libs blindly follow, like cattle to the slaughter...

And as principled conservatives, we can't compromise with each other in order to stop them from taking us with them to the slaughter  :sad:

EDIT:
Quote
""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." "
So why isnt the second part of this law taken into practice? In the US children are being expelled from practicing their free excersise of religion.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 08:22:34 AM by Mountainshield »
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Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2013, 08:53:37 AM »
Maybe then one of my favorite statements is the biggest problem for the Republican party. I always say libs can not thing for themselves which is true, they mimic MM, the DNC and a few others.
I/we as Republicans or Conservatives think for ourselves so even though we may be of the same party we are different and think for ourselves?

Indeed, and because we think for ourself we come different conclusions when it comes to specifics even though we all love freedom. And these specifics like i.e gay marriage, foreign interventions and immigration prohibits us from forming a united coalition as the socialists do. We differ on the path to our "ideal" society/government adn therefor we have problems uniting, while the socialists all agree on the path to their utopia even though differ on specifics. So they are able to form minority government as the specifics are not as important as the overall agenda.
“War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.” - William Tecumseh Sherman

Offline kramarat

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2013, 09:38:16 AM »
Well one can dedicate a whole thread to the disgusting WBC.

The problem though, how can we get all the conservative groups to work together with the constitution as framework?
Obama won with only 25-30% of the vote, so the socialists are not in majority, same in other countries around the world. The socialista are able to form minority government control because the conservatives don't work together.
In Norway this year its election, so it will be interestent to see but as always I fear the conservative groups will not work together. Just as the libertarians and social conservative will not work together in USA, the Christian peoples party, conservative party and the progress party (the most right wing party in norway) will not work together in Norway, even though in both countries "the right" is in majority.

And as principled conservatives, we can't compromise with each other in order to stop them from taking us with them to the slaughter  :sad:

EDIT:  So why isnt the second part of this law taken into practice? In the US children are being expelled from practicing their free excersise of religion.

I hate to say this, but anyone that is not willing to make the US constitution the bedrock of their political beliefs, is not a conservative, in the political sense of the word.

We have people that are conservatives, but look at things from a strictly Christian position. These are the people that only want abortion illegalized.............at any cost.

I hate abortion also, but I have to temper that hatred so that I can make my argument in a constitutional framework. Which is not to go after abortion itself, but to bring up the unconstitutionality of forcing people to pay taxes, and then put their tax money toward government funded abortions. The people that are adamantly opposed to abortion, are typically Christians or other religious people that feel that abortion is murder. It is unconstitutional for the government to take their money and apply it to something that is strictly forbidden within their religion, and it flies in the face of guaranteed religious freedom.

I don't think that abortion will ever be eliminated; we might as well face it. However, I think it is entirely possible to strip it of government funding, which, if explained properly, I think would be backed by, (at least some), democrats as well.

Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2013, 09:59:17 AM »
So how do you get if at all possible the libertarians and conservative christians to work together and set aside the abortion issue, and get isolationists and pro interventionalist to put aside foreign policy and all together work towards implementing the constitutional restriction and reduction on government first?
“War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.” - William Tecumseh Sherman

Offline kramarat

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2013, 10:10:25 AM »
So how do you get if at all possible the libertarians and conservative christians to work together and set aside the abortion issue, and get isolationists and pro interventionalist to put aside foreign policy and all together work towards implementing the constitutional restriction and reduction on government first?

For the most part, they are working together. It's the damned republican party that's adrift. :mad:

Each group has it's members that are out on the fringes, but all are against socialism. The people that choose to sit out elections, based on whatever agenda they may have, are no better than Obama democrats as far as I'm concerned. If they refuse to help stop it, they might as well learn to like it; because it's not going away without a concerted effort.

Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 10:22:35 AM »
I hate to say I did not vote in the last election because I was felt betrayed by the progress party and conservative party due to some of it members being "RHINO". That being said, you can't defeat the democrats without rallying the non voters. It seems swift destruction/reformation of the Republican party is necessary in the US.

The problem in Norway is that two biggest right wing parties, the Conservative Party and the Progress Party focuses on stealing each other votes and scoring political points against each other instead of working together. I hope this changes this election though but I don't think so.

And it also looks to me as the libertarians want to focus on that they are for gay marriage by not wanting state legislating it and want abortion to be free just to score political favor with the libs and pissing off the social conservatives. So I don't really see the sides working together.

And for the moment it seems that the Left is winning with minority government when the right has the most votes. How can this be stopped?
“War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.” - William Tecumseh Sherman

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2013, 10:25:00 AM »
For the most part, they are working together. It's the damned republican party that's adrift. :mad:

Each group has it's members that are out on the fringes, but all are against socialism. The people that choose to sit out elections, based on whatever agenda they may have, are no better than Obama democrats as far as I'm concerned. If they refuse to help stop it, they might as well learn to like it; because it's not going away without a concerted effort.

"Each group has it's members that are out on the fringes, but all are against socialism. The people that choose to sit out elections, based on whatever agenda they may have, are no better than Obama democrats as far as I'm concerned. If they refuse to help stop it, they might as well learn to like it; because it's not going away without a concerted effort."

What drives me nuts is we have have too many single issue folks on our side. An example is there is a group of Christians that do not accept Mormonism as a Christian religion. I believe some of those stayed home and did not vote. My goodness a Mormon is no comparison to what Obama is.
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Offline kramarat

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2013, 10:32:19 AM »
I hate to say I did not vote in the last election because I was felt betrayed by the progress party and conservative party due to some of it members being "RHINO". That being said, you can't defeat the democrats without rallying the non voters. It seems swift destruction/reformation of the Republican party is necessary in the US.

The problem in Norway is that two biggest right wing parties, the Conservative Party and the Progress Party focuses on stealing each other votes and scoring political points against each other instead of working together. I hope this changes this election though but I don't think so.

And it also looks to me as the libertarians want to focus on that they are for gay marriage by not wanting state legislating it and want abortion to be free just to score political favor with the libs and pissing off the social conservatives. So I don't really see the sides working together.

And for the moment it seems that the Left is winning with minority government when the right has the most votes. How can this be stopped?

Not by destroying the republican party.

It stops by wiping the table clean, and forming an alliance that is based completely on the US constitution, the constitutional role of government, the role of state government, and the idea of individual freedom that this country was founded on. Everything else is white noise distraction. Reagan did it, and democrats voted for him.

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2013, 10:59:24 AM »
"The problem in Norway is that two biggest right wing parties, the Conservative Party and the Progress Party focuses on stealing each other votes and scoring political points against each other instead of working together. I hope this changes this election though but I don't think so."

This is the reality of a third party movement. The two right leaning parties would spend all their time trying to reach supporters of the other party. The dems would love it.

"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Offline Mountainshield

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2013, 05:01:12 AM »
This is the reality of a third party movement. The two right leaning parties would spend all their time trying to reach supporters of the other party. The dems would love it.

IOh yes, it is the reason I made this thread. Socialists, Communists, Greens (watermelons) and liberals on the left have no problem cooperating with each other even though they differ on specifics.

For example
Labor Party focuses on jobs/empoyment through government intervention in the economy, often too some degree of detrimental impact on the environment. Labor Party is also pro nato and pro EU
Socialist Left focuses on wellfare and open immigration/refugee, foreign aid to totalitarian regimes, anti EU/NATO and pro LGBT issues
Green focuses on environment through taxation, creating national parks, stopping infrastructure and housing development

But they all agree on the expansion of state, sometimes socialist left protests against labor party pro NATO warmongering, green protests Labor party infrastucture for media circus, but nothing changes as they all agree on the socialist-communist agenda.

While on the right you have

Conservative Party want less taxation/regulation but also spending 80% of their time distancing themselves from the progress party in order to not be viewed as racist due to the progress party view on immigration.
Progress Party want less taxation/regulation but also stricter immigration and spend 80% of their time dealing/answering political uncorrectness issues from the left.

Instead of both focusing on cooperation on taxation they try to squeeze as many voters from the other right party as possible.
“War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.” - William Tecumseh Sherman

Offline kramarat

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Re: Individual enlightenment weakness for the conservative political movement?
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2013, 05:24:00 AM »
IOh yes, it is the reason I made this thread. Socialists, Communists, Greens (watermelons) and liberals on the left have no problem cooperating with each other even though they differ on specifics.

For example
Labor Party focuses on jobs/empoyment through government intervention in the economy, often too some degree of detrimental impact on the environment. Labor Party is also pro nato and pro EU
Socialist Left focuses on wellfare and open immigration/refugee, foreign aid to totalitarian regimes, anti EU/NATO and pro LGBT issues
Green focuses on environment through taxation, creating national parks, stopping infrastructure and housing development

But they all agree on the expansion of state, sometimes socialist left protests against labor party pro NATO warmongering, green protests Labor party infrastucture for media circus, but nothing changes as they all agree on the socialist-communist agenda.

While on the right you have

Conservative Party want less taxation/regulation but also spending 80% of their time distancing themselves from the progress party in order to not be viewed as racist due to the progress party view on immigration.
Progress Party want less taxation/regulation but also stricter immigration and spend 80% of their time dealing/answering political uncorrectness issues from the left.

Instead of both focusing on cooperation on taxation they try to squeeze as many voters from the other right party as possible.

The immigration problem should be an easy sell. There is ample evidence to show what the influx of Muslims, emergence of Islam, and ever growing populations in relation to the natives, are doing to the other European countries. It's not good.

Of course, I suppose that Norway also has a set of politically correct blinders they can put on.

 

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