Quote from: MichaelJ on March 05, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
UGH! as much as I would like this to be true, I sadly believe this is going to end up badly for Trump. Dems, and it appears the FBI (along with the MSM) are closing ranks and denying this ever happened. If the President does not have ironclad proof, he will pay a huge price for spouting off on twitter about this. Hopefully I am totally wrong but have a very bad feeling about this 

Doesn't matter, what ranks they close. Whoever leaked this, also leaked many of the particulars of the warrant requests. There are already a number of discussions on who, and what, can be criminally charged.

Regardless of what Bammy or Jarrett or Lynch did none of them will ever be charged or prosecuted. Just like the Clintons ... lie, deny and cover up. Secondly, Trump wasn't president at the time.

Quote from: MichaelJ on March 05, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
UGH! as much as I would like this to be true, I sadly believe this is going to end up badly for Trump. Dems, and it appears the FBI (along with the MSM) are closing ranks and denying this ever happened. If the President does not have ironclad proof, he will pay a huge price for spouting off on twitter about this. Hopefully I am totally wrong but have a very bad feeling about this 

Why the FISA court requests?

Quote from: Ms.Independence on March 05, 2017, 05:23:48 PM
Regardless of what Bammy or Jarrett or Lynch did none of them will ever be charged or prosecuted. Just like the Clintons ... lie, deny and cover up. Secondly, Trump wasn't president at the time.

He was the Republican nominated candidate for president, which makes wire tapping of his communications in Trump Tower that much more suspect. As others, I hope the evidence is there to back up the accusations. We all know the media will spin like jet turbines trying to deny. If the evidence is hard enough, they'll switch to justification.

I'm hoping a lot more than Obama will be implicated - as in a significant portion of the democratic party leadership. Be nice to put the boot to - if not the cuffs on - personalities like Pelosi & Schumer, in addition to Obama, Lynch, et.al.

Quote from: zewazir on March 05, 2017, 07:01:41 PM
He was the Republican nominated candidate for president, which makes wire tapping of his communications in Trump Tower that much more suspect. As others, I hope the evidence is there to back up the accusations. We all know the media will spin like jet turbines trying to deny. If the evidence is hard enough, they'll switch to justification.

I'm hoping a lot more than Obama will be implicated - as in a significant portion of the democratic party leadership. Be nice to put the boot to - if not the cuffs on - personalities like Pelosi & Schumer, in addition to Obama, Lynch, et.al.

IMHO, there might be all kinds of events that point to their responsibility, but the DEMS are never going to go down. Too much money and corruption behind them.  Sort of like Teddy Kennedy ... who admitted leaving the scene of an accident...he got a slap on the wrist and continued to serve as Senator of Massachusetts for years ... sort of like Hillary Clinton ... responsible for arming ISIS and 4 dead Americans, but she still ran for president.  Sort of like Bill Clinton who was impeached, but the Senate never voted to oust him. There will be all kinds of suspicions surrounding Bammy and cronies, but nothing will come of this. Nothing.

Well, what do we know? There were supposedly two FISA requests. The first denied anfd the second granted. Presidents do not make FISA requests. That is left to the law enforcement agencies. However it would be hard to believe that the president would not be aware of the wiretapping of the Republican candidate for the presidency one month before the election. If Trump's phones were tapped they obviously didn't uncover anything of value because Obama's DoJ would have released the information or it would have been leaked to derail Trumps campaign. Did the tapping really happen? Well, considering all the pearl clutching and democrat hysteria over Russia I would not be surprised they convinced a FISA judge.

Quote from: Ms.Independence on March 05, 2017, 08:00:54 PM
IMHO, there might be all kinds of events that point to their responsibility, but the DEMS are never going to go down. Too much money and corruption behind them.  Sort of like Teddy Kennedy ... who admitted leaving the scene of an accident...he got a slap on the wrist and continued to serve as Senator of Massachusetts for years ... sort of like Hillary Clinton ... responsible for arming ISIS and 4 dead Americans, but she still ran for president.  Sort of like Bill Clinton who was impeached, but the Senate never voted to oust him. There will be all kinds of suspicions surrounding Bammy and cronies, but nothing will come of this. Nothing.

Therefore it will never happen?

Quote from: The Boo Man... on March 05, 2017, 08:35:06 PM
Well, what do we know? There were supposedly two FISA requests. The first denied anfd the second granted. Presidents do not make FISA requests. That is left to the law enforcement agencies. However it would be hard to believe that the president would not be aware of the wiretapping of the Republican candidate for the presidency one month before the election. If Trump's phones were tapped they obviously didn't uncover anything of value because Obama's DoJ would have released the information or it would have been leaked to derail Trumps campaign. Did the tapping really happen? Well, considering all the pearl clutching and democrat hysteria over Russia I would not be surprised they convinced a FISA judge.

There you go Boo, if they'd found dirt on trump, we'd all be hearing the word Impeachment.
"convinced a FISA judge"
Which is the evidence they have and know the leftists fabricated, and or hid evidence and tricked a judge into signing it.
Either way, the law was broken and trump's 4th Amendment rights were violated through the heavy hand of govt.
The GOP let the Marxist slide over using the IRS as a political weapon because they are just as guilty as the dims in wanting to quash TEA, but this became personal for Trump and no amount of obfuscation on the part of either party is going to make this go away.

Quote from: topside on March 05, 2017, 03:35:47 PM
Billy ... you certainly show experience with this topic. Wouldn't you think that POTUS would have wanted to see the authorization on a tap on Trump Tower before he went public with the notion? if someone finds such a tap authorization, can the document be made public or does it have to go through some kind of process to be released? How long would you estimate that it would take for such a document to legally be made public - any idea?

I have a detailed Understanding how the DOJ works, for what its worth, back in the Day I had to deal with that idiot Eric Holder when he was the Chief USAO in charge of narcotic and organized crime in Washington DC. If we had title 3 intercepts, for the request to get to the Judge we first had to go thru him, needless to say one did not get such warrant easily. Running a pen register, which merely records numbers dial from a certain phone was about the limit of what you could get with him. A full blown "Tap" recording conversation was next to impossible. You had to get thru Holder then if he signed off on it he would have gone to his boss the Chief USAO....the next step being the AG himself. My understanding was that the AG was informed of all ACTIVE TITLE #3 WIRE TAPS IN THE WEEKLY BRIEFING!!!!!!! BUT these are criminal investigations.

My understand that with FISA, which are highly classified, is that results may be shared with THE PRESIDENTS OFFICE/NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR & Staff as some of the Intell for the Presidents daily Intel briefing/Weekly intell briefing COMES FROM THIS TYPE OF SURVEILLANCE!!!!!!!!

Digest that for a moment.

My Gut feeling is that SOMEBODY in the DOJ ordered a wire run on Trump, possibly for a "criminal violation" something to do with his business or banking in Russia This is plausible coz Trump had business dealings with the Russians (Not a crime) Once again, the affidavit in support of this warrant is ON FILE, with both the FBI, THE DOJ....has to be.  Now I'm also thinking the Probable cause was likely very flimsy or possibly manufactured. It sounds like nothing was found of a criminal nature. BUT it is AGAINST THE LAW to release the results of such investigation UNLESS IT TO THE SUSPECTS ATTORNEY....PRIVACY LAWS!!!!!!!! Not to mention slander, libel etc etc.

Rather than let it rest SOMEBODY in the DOJ ordered a FISA, to Tap Trump towers, FISA was likely refused, somebody went "Judge shopping" and got the approval. Again nothing was found.



Here is my summary:

Educated Guess is that Loretta Lynch ordered the criminal investigation into Trumps organization waaaaayyyyyy back when he announced his run for President. Trump was not President but he wasn't exactly an ordinary citizen, he had a lot of power an influence, such undertaking was not done lightly. Obama would not have to order anything, it was understood this would be done , just as a Mafia Chieftan doesn't have to order a murder, his subordinates know they better do it.

Now go back to what I said about the Presidents weekly and daily security Briefing. You can bet money that Obama knew about it.

Now how long before such can be verified.

My take is that it already has been verified and Somebody has the papers, ie the documents that prove it....either the MSM, Mark Lavin, or Trump's people. Like I said previously....THERE IS AN EXTENSIVE PAPER TRAIL WITH THESE TYPES OF WARRANTS and Investigative files. There are also shredders and garbage can fires.

The truth will come out and it will be real messy, probably for Trump as well as for the Dems, I'm thinking somebody will go to jail

Quote from: MichaelJ on March 05, 2017, 04:56:33 PM
UGH! as much as I would like this to be true, I sadly believe this is going to end up badly for Trump. Dems, and it appears the FBI (along with the MSM) are closing ranks and denying this ever happened. If the President does not have ironclad proof, he will pay a huge price for spouting off on twitter about this. Hopefully I am totally wrong but have a very bad feeling about this 

THe FBI and the courts cannot "close ranks" there is too much of a paper trail. AND IT WILL COME To LIghT.

Here's a disturbing thought, what if it isn;t the FBI or even NSA doing the taps...what if it was a third party or FOREIGN PARTY who was CONTRACTED BY OBAMA/CLINTON to do this.

TREASON and SEDITION of the most high order.

What would really be ironic is if the Russians did it! Seriously though, the connection and paper trail will be hard to uncover considering the specifications for obtaining a FISA warrant (if they indeed have one) is highly secretive and likely to be justified as "national security" concerns by the Obama DOJ.

Quote from: MichaelJ on March 06, 2017, 06:51:46 AM
What would really be ironic is if the Russians did it! Seriously though, the connection and paper trail will be hard to uncover considering the specifications for obtaining a FISA warrant (if they indeed have one) is highly secretive and likely to be justified as "national security" concerns by the Obama DOJ.

Its highly secretive unless you have a right to know/top secret clearance etc etc.

There IS a record of it, when you get a warrant ANY type of Warrant, one copy stays in the Files with the case agent (FBI) one copy stays in the files of the APPROVING US ATTORNEY, and one copy Stays with Courts who are supposed to be independent.

Just so you know, those copies are not the property of the aforementioned custodians they are the GOVERNMENTS PROPERTY, and can be (and will be) released to those GOVERNMENT officials with the proper clearances....or in this case with the proper court orders/subpeonea's...coz people will be going to jail over this.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on March 06, 2017, 06:44:51 AM
Here's a disturbing thought, what if it isn;t the FBI or even NSA doing the taps...what if it was a third party or FOREIGN PARTY who was CONTRACTED BY OBAMA/CLINTON to do this.

TREASON and SEDITION of the most high order.

In other words, business as usual.

For a couple of decades now, the Echelon program has been operational.
In the USA, it is illegal for the CIA to spy on Americans.
In Great Britain, it is illegal for MI-6 to spy on the British.
How to get around that?
Have each country's agency spy on the other country's citizens.

There's a huge communications node at Menwith Hill, England.
That's where much of the intercepting is done.

Plus, it doesn't have to be a government to do the spying.
Companies like Google, whose motto is "Don't be evil"
are well-connected, both to the internet, and to the banksters.

The banksters usually admit into their clique only
descendants of the families who have been in their clique for generations,
but they do admit newcomers like Google and Facebook,
because they bring into the fold
new technologies that can enhance the banksters' power.
You can check out: 
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/news-board/google-facebook-twitter-distort-news/
to see some of what Google, Facebook, and Twitter
have been doing in service to the banksters.

Quote from: je_freedom on March 06, 2017, 08:00:01 AM
In other words, business as usual.

For a couple of decades now, the Echelon program has been operational.
In the USA, it is illegal for the CIA to spy on Americans.
In Great Britain, it is illegal for MI-6 to spy on the British.
How to get around that?
Have each country's agency spy on the other country's citizens.

There's a huge communications node at Menwith Hill, England.
That's where much of the intercepting is done.

Plus, it doesn't have to be a government to do the spying.
Companies like Google, whose motto is "Don't be evil"
are well-connected, both to the internet, and to the banksters.

The banksters usually admit into their clique only
descendants of the families who have been in their clique for generations,
but they do admit newcomers like Google and Facebook,
because they bring into the fold
new technologies that can enhance the banksters' power.
You can check out: 
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/news-board/google-facebook-twitter-distort-news/
to see some of what Google, Facebook, and Twitter
have been doing in service to the banksters.

Based on what we know so far, Jarrette kept it in House and didn't want to run the risk of leaks from outside the country.