Hypothetical and ridiculous

Started by Solar, November 21, 2012, 01:45:46 PM

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walkstall

Quote from: Lemondrop on November 26, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
It would be nice if you were right... but we've become a nation of 310 million, and (IMO) 99.5% have less than 14 days storage of food and fuel.  If a complete and nationwide crisis hit, where civil order completely broke down... we would have a massive problem.  If a person lives within 100 miles of any city of 100,000+, people will forage, will branch out and take whatever they find.  No one is going to sit at home and peacefully watch their children starve, if it comes to that.

If you live in Montana, in some of the deep rural areas, sure... but that's not the case, for 95% of people. 

If it all breaks down, there will be blood...  (where have I heard that before?)  :smile:

Your city people will turn on each other first.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Darth Fife

I believe that people are capitalists by nature.

I also believe that they are basically good, by nature, and are very good at adapting to changing circumstances. If humans were as violent and greedy as some seem to think, I very much doubt we would have survived as a species long enough to invent the wheel! 

Will there be looting and theft, sure, but even today, with our intact, civilized society, there is crime.

I feel that, for the most part, people will barter for what they need - some will grow their own food, etc. Others will put their own talents to use in whatever way serves them best, and they will shop out those talents to others who need them in exchange for things they need, but don't have.

I sincerely doubt that we will be facing a Mad Maxesque  dystopian future - as fun as that would be!

Solar

Quote from: Lemondrop on November 26, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
It would be nice if you were right... but we've become a nation of 310 million, and (IMO) 99.5% have less than 14 days storage of food and fuel.  If a complete and nationwide crisis hit, where civil order completely broke down... we would have a massive problem.  If a person lives within 100 miles of any city of 100,000+, people will forage, will branch out and take whatever they find.  No one is going to sit at home and peacefully watch their children starve, if it comes to that.

If you live in Montana, in some of the deep rural areas, sure... but that's not the case, for 95% of people. 

If it all breaks down, there will be blood...  (where have I heard that before?)  :smile:
I have to agree with Darth in that people find safety in numbers and generally look for ways to barter and work together, rather than lose 100 million years of growth.

Also one has to consider the possible impending meltdown :rolleyes: would never happen everywhere simultaneously, it would start slowly in pockets of big cities, where in most cases would be manageable.

Consider this scenario over months and years, certain areas getting worse and worse, people move out of the area because of spreading crime, many move to other states that don't have these problems.
Now assuming it spreads to where entire cities are collapsing, we still have a functioning govt, one with a National Guard that can enforce some semblance of structure and contain the problem and feed them.

But to assume these idiots, idiots that weren't smart enough to feed themselves in the first place and give them credit to organize into a mob that would actually accomplish anything?
It's not like they have a real enemy outside of their hunger, it's not like North Korea is invading the country in uniform, their enemy is actually each other, so they won't be banding together to invade other areas that remain untouched.

The only way the entire country can be affected simultaneously, is if we were hit with a nuclear attack, pandemic natural disaster like a volcano covering 2/3rds of the planet, something that hits all of us equally at once, otherwise most of us will prepare for tough times, I know I have, we now have a two years supply of everything we use.

IMO...
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

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keyboarder

Good ideas, everyone.  Personally, i have to adhere to the idea of getting a plan ready to use in a few minutes notice.  I'll describe my fears.  Panic is one of my concerns.  Those that have refused to accept the ideas as suggested here and countless other opinions of the impending dangers to our whole society will most likely panic in the initial disorder.  This will lead to dangers for those of us who will try to make the best of our situations.  The trouble will be worse in bigger towns and cities but it will be everywhere because of unpreparedness of the citizens in each place.  I like the plan mentioned by some here of organized effort to keep going.  I can't say publically to what extent and where or even who all is involved in the scenario that my "sheriff' and I are involved with but it just makes good sense to prepare for the worst case scenario. 

What is most troubling to me is the apathy of people around me that are neighbors or fellow church members, even family members that don't like to talk about such matters.  It's like they don't think that we could ever get reduced to such a state.  Here's a bulletin, we just got reduced a month ago to such a state where all of this is possible, even probable.  I have family members, some in college, that didn't even know about the Benghazi incident until I mentioned it to them.  Some of them didn't even vote, and in today's politically flawed elections I might give them a pass on that one.  My sister says that anything political isn't discussed at their family dinners on sunday, and she's got one daughter-in-law that requested this as a condition of her continuing to attend the dinners.  Can you believe that?  True statement and that family of three sons+ spouses are in county jobs, (at least my nephews and bil are). 
Does anyone here think that any of these folks are preparing for the liklihood of what we are talking about with a govt. crash?  That's just a handfull of folks.

Another concern.  Gun and ammo sales have skyrocketed around here.  Also, who knows anything about the government's buying up of insane amounts of these items?  I hear so much and try to dissect stuff that I hear, but if this is so, what are they doing with all of this stuff and where are they taking it and for what reason? 

I have other concerns as well but that's just the tip of the iceberg and it's enough to propel me into a state of readiness.  You, at least, like to think that you've prepared your family well enough that these things will be of importance to them.  I'm not forgetting the indoctrination they have undergone in the last few years either but it is just now dawning on me how destructive it is, so all I can do is warn them as a parent.   
.If you want to lead the orchestra, you must turn your back to the crowd      Forbes

Solar

Look to Greece to see our future and somehow they managed to stave off riots where people turn on each other.
Worst case scenario, is hyper inflation, products will still be available, most will cut out of the frivolous crap, like cable TV, second car, insurance payments will cease, people will tighten their budgets.

Point is, it will not happen all at once, so there will be places unaffected, it is the big cities that will have all the headaches, while the rest of us will go on about our daily lives.

I just don't see a doomsday scenario on the horizon....
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BILLY Defiant

No one is panicking...Getting a plan together and ORGANIZING just makes sense.

Learn a lesson from both Katrina and Sandy...don't depend on the Govt State Local or Fed...organize and form your own neighborhood/regional contingency plan.
Evil operates best when it is disguised for what it truly is.

Darth Fife

Quote from: Solar on November 27, 2012, 07:48:27 AM
Look to Greece to see our future and somehow they managed to stave off riots where people turn on each other.
Worst case scenario, is hyper inflation, products will still be available, most will cut out of the frivolous crap, like cable TV, second car, insurance payments will cease, people will tighten their budgets.

Point is, it will not happen all at once, so there will be places unaffected, it is the big cities that will have all the headaches, while the rest of us will go on about our daily lives.

I just don't see a doomsday scenario on the horizon....

Neither do I.

However, I do see an increasingly authoritarian society run in accordance with Communist ideology. I see defacto nationalization of more and more industries - especially energy and transportation. Stricter control of communication and entertainment - including a return to the so-called Fairness Doctrine. 

It will be a long time (if ever) before America once again resembles the Republic visualized by our founders. And it will take decades of selfless toil and sacrifice if we are ever to achieve Victory.


BILLY Defiant

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 27, 2012, 06:19:23 PM
Neither do I.

However, I do see an increasingly authoritarian society run in accordance with Communist ideology. I see defacto nationalization of more and more industries - especially energy and transportation. Stricter control of communication and entertainment - including a return to the so-called Fairness Doctrine. 

It will be a long time (if ever) before America once again resembles the Republic visualized by our founders. And it will take decades of selfless toil and sacrifice if we are ever to achieve Victory.

respectfully...I call this the "Hopefa" position...as in 'hope fa' the best
in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary...something akin to denial which is most severe among the Libs. I can understand it as our faith in the US is unshakable but as a realist I look at the The numbers...they key is in the numbers...we can't sustain the debt and the additional spending.

The system will fail and somebody won't get a paycheck...the braintrusts in washington will decide who...then the 'fun' begins.

Billy
Evil operates best when it is disguised for what it truly is.

Darth Fife

Quote from: BILLY Defiant on November 27, 2012, 06:41:22 PM
respectfully...I call this the "Hopefa" position...as in 'hope fa' the best
in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary...something akin to denial which is most severe among the Libs. I can understand it as our faith in the US is unshakable but as a realist I look at the The numbers...they key is in the numbers...we can't sustain the debt and the additional spending.

The system will fail and somebody won't get a paycheck...the braintrusts in washington will decide who...then the 'fun' begins.

Billy

Perhaps you are right...

Either way, I am prepared!  :wink:

BILLY Defiant

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 27, 2012, 06:45:09 PM
Perhaps you are right...

Either way, I am prepared!  :wink:

Good, always prepare for the worst!

Billy
Evil operates best when it is disguised for what it truly is.

CubaLibre

Quote from: Solar on November 21, 2012, 01:45:46 PM
But I thought I'd throw this out, just because. :wink:

Lets say Husein and the leftists completely throw the country into chaos, where they kill Capitalism as we know it.
Should we stop fighting them and help them destroy the country so we can rebuild it?

Say for example we all go on Govt. assistance, milk the system dry to the point of revolution, because there won't be any money anyway considering inflation will have already made the dollar worthless.

I know it sounds extreme, but assume for a moment these idiots follow through with the Marxist plan, what have we too lose?

Disclaimer: I don't really think it will come to that, but I thought it my be good to hash it out anyway.
That sounds like a welfare version of Atlas Shrugged.  :wink:

In seriousness, though, maybe "shrugging" is the best choice. I personally plan to reduce my financial support for the state in any way I can. I may not be Atlass, but I'm "shrugging" nonetheless.