From what i understand the mandates are gone along with most of the taxes. Plenty to gripe about with it but i hope it passes today.
Quote from: ldub23 on May 04, 2017, 04:36:40 AM
From what i understand the mandates are gone along with most of the taxes. Plenty to gripe about with it but i hope it passes today.
Surrender now and avoid the rush, is that it? Why not hold out for better?
Quote from: quiller on May 04, 2017, 05:32:42 AM
Surrender now and avoid the rush, is that it? Why not hold out for better?
Better when? When dems take over in 2018 if reps do nothing now?
Quote from: ldub23 on May 04, 2017, 06:00:36 AM
Better when? When dems take over in 2018 if reps do nothing now?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You're too funny! I asked you to provide evidence of your claims and you run away, and here you are, at it again, claiming the Dim party is still viable?
Even Fuglosi admits they are dead and out of power with infighting at the leadership level, yet you hold out hope for a miracle? :rolleyes:
Oh, and why do we even need a govt run HC plan? When since our existence the free mkt has done just fine, providing the best HC available anywhere in the free world.
You're entitled to THINK it's the best we will get, but capitulation this soon into a four-year crusade only means you lack the stomach for the fight.
Quote from: ldub23 on May 04, 2017, 06:00:36 AM
Better when? When dems take over in 2018 if reps do nothing now?
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa238%2FDapper_Dan%2Fbth_42.gif&hash=4edc57c38b96d2140925d0281402379c38f5b7e0)
Walks ... not sure of your point, but that last post was disturbing. :smile:
I think the energy put into a conflict in this thread misplaced. A repeal would be consistent with the promises in the campaign and more aligned with the Conservative / Republic values. But the reality of politics is that it's a chess game. Trump needs to capture a few pieces so more will believe he's got game.
Repeal was voted on 54 times by the House during the BO administration but never made it to the Senate floor. They were just waving the flag at that point - no hope the Dims would let it happen. http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/ (http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/)
I'm almost certain that a full repeal would not pass in the current environment today. Even the current repeal / replace bill is just getting through the House. Many are very pessimistic it will make it through the Senate. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal)
The current problem is that some Pubs (RINOs) don't support a full repeal while others can't get behind a replace - so the Pubs could carry the day but the whole constitutional checks and balances concept is getting in our way.
A second fail will bang Trump's credibility up even more ... especially after the Dims and LSM put an exclamation point after the fail.
I hate the idea, but think it better if the current bill passes and is re-addressed for repeal in a couple years. We definitely need more conservatives on-board in congress to get a confident win on repeal. I'd like to score a touchdown but need to settle for a first down at this point.
Quote from: topside on May 04, 2017, 08:48:57 AM
Walks ... not sure of your point, but that last post was disturbing. :smile:
I think the energy put into a conflict in this thread misplaced. A repeal would be consistent with the promises in the campaign and more aligned with the Conservative / Republic values. But the reality of politics is that it's a chess game. Trump needs to capture a few pieces so more will believe he's got game.
Repeal was voted on 54 times by the House during the BO administration but never made it to the Senate floor. They were just waving the flag at that point - no hope the Dims would let it happen. http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/ (http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/)
I'm almost certain that a full repeal would not pass in the current environment today. Even the current repeal / replace bill is just getting through the House. Many are very pessimistic it will make it through the Senate. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal)
The current problem is that some Pubs (RINOs) don't support a full repeal while others can't get behind a replace - so the Pubs could carry the day but the whole constitutional checks and balances concept is getting in our way.
A second fail will bang Trump's credibility up even more ... especially after the Dims and LSM put an exclamation point after the fail.
I hate the idea, but think it better if the current bill passes and is re-addressed for repeal in a couple years. We definitely need more conservatives on-board in congress to get a confident win on repeal. I'd like to score a touchdown but need to settle for a first down at this point.
Re-addressed for repeal a couple of years later?? You yourself just stated that a repeal was voted on 54 times and failed! So to pass a bill now in hopes to repeal later is counter productive and quite honestly to me, absurd. Yes the media is having a frenzy right now and the GOP is in a hurry to get something passed. In reality they should be ignoring the media and pushing for full REPEAL. Keep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed. Also, keep in mind that just about everyone up for re-election in '18 campaigned on the promise of REPEAL. If they don't deliver they jeopardize their seats and further jeopardize a chance of successfully repealing parts of the new bill in the future.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 04, 2017, 09:03:14 AM
Re-addressed for repeal a couple of years later?? You yourself just stated that a repeal was voted on 54 times and failed! So to pass a bill now in hopes to repeal later is counter productive and quite honestly to me, absurd. Yes the media is having a frenzy right now and the GOP is in a hurry to get something passed. In reality they should be ignoring the media and pushing for full REPEAL. Keep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed. Also, keep in mind that just about everyone up for re-election in '18 campaigned on the promise of REPEAL. If they don't deliver they jeopardize their seats and further jeopardize a chance of successfully repealing parts of the new bill in the future.
It's not the media that's the problem this time ... it's the Pubs.
Ok - so let's go with your preference. Vote on repeal this week ... and the data says it will fail. Then wait two years and hope that the voting public will recognize the error of their ways and put more Conservatives in. Then we vote again in two-plus years and get the repeal. That's a wet dream and you know it.
What would more likely happen is that it would be voted out and BO care would remain. It would fail and the government would have to do something. Given no other positives (that's also another big assumption), the voter base does remember that their health care went to crap and Trump was driving - couldn't get'r done. So the issues assists the Dims getting back in office.
If you think I'm wrong, spell out a more plausible outcome over the next five years. I feel like you are pretending that a repeal will happen just because you want it to. I would like to believe you but the facts I'm seeing don't support your position.
Also, you mentioned:
QuoteKeep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed.
I wonder how that version compared with the current version that's being constructed? Any links that explained that bill? Please don't yell at me for not doing my homework ... just asking for a courtesy jumping off point if you have one.
Quote from: topside on May 04, 2017, 08:48:57 AM
Walks ... not sure of your point, but that last post was disturbing. :smile:
I think the energy put into a conflict in this thread misplaced. A repeal would be consistent with the promises in the campaign and more aligned with the Conservative / Republic values. But the reality of politics is that it's a chess game. Trump needs to capture a few pieces so more will believe he's got game.
Repeal was voted on 54 times by the House during the BO administration but never made it to the Senate floor. They were just waving the flag at that point - no hope the Dims would let it happen. http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/ (http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/)
I'm almost certain that a full repeal would not pass in the current environment today. Even the current repeal / replace bill is just getting through the House. Many are very pessimistic it will make it through the Senate. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal)
The current problem is that some Pubs (RINOs) don't support a full repeal while others can't get behind a replace - so the Pubs could carry the day but the whole constitutional checks and balances concept is getting in our way.
A second fail will bang Trump's credibility up even more ... especially after the Dims and LSM put an exclamation point after the fail.
I hate the idea, but think it better if the current bill passes and is re-addressed for repeal in a couple years. We definitely need more conservatives on-board in congress to get a confident win on repeal. I'd like to score a touchdown but need to settle for a first down at this point.
It's just me. From the first few post I have seen ldub23 more as a Shill. With his doom and gloom, this is the best we are going to get so let run with it. :rolleyes: The old bait and switch.
You may see this as a first down, I see it a one more touchdown for the lib's and RINO's. Get the government out of H/C, everything about my health is now on computers. Those computers files have been compromised so I have been told by a letter that came in the mail. The government's b o care was going to save me 2.500$ a year. :rolleyes: Government's b o care now cost me over 6.000$ more a year.
We are the
Government Congress and we are here to help. :rolleyes:
Quote from: topside on May 04, 2017, 09:26:22 AM
It's not the media that's the problem this time ... it's the Pubs.
Ok - so let's go with your preference. Vote on repeal this week ... and the data says it will fail. Then wait two years and hope that the voting public will recognize the error of their ways and put more Conservatives in. Then we vote again in two-plus years and get the repeal. That's a wet dream and you know it.
To arbitrarily not take a vote, because they don't think they have the votes is part of the problem. I say take the vote on repeal and IF it does indeed fail, those who voted against repeal will be known and can be held accountable at the voting booth. Why should RINO's be given an out? The public has the right to know who is voting with the voice of the people and who is voting against their voice.
IF it does fail at that point the public knows that repeal failed. Those that voted for it will save their seats in 2018. If it does fail now, then you vote on the current proposed legislation that modifies it. Telling the public that they need to wait another 2 years for a vote on repeal is absurd.
Well some of it!! :ohmy:
Here's What You Need to Know About the Health Care Bill
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/here-s-what-you-need-know-about-health-care-bill-n754611
Quote from: walkstall on May 04, 2017, 08:04:51 AM
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa238%2FDapper_Dan%2Fbth_42.gif&hash=4edc57c38b96d2140925d0281402379c38f5b7e0)
Yup. :cool:
So the House vote is in ... summary below ... sorry about the spacing in the copy / paste, but you'll figure it out.
Majority needed to pass Yes No Not voting
Republicans 217 20 1
Democrats 0 193 0
Total 217 213 1
This RINO bill only passed the house by only two votes - they rallied only one excess vote. There were 20 Pubs that voted against ... I haven't been able to determine whether the Pub No's were from the FC or not or RINOs that thought the bill was too far right.
But what still amazes me is that the Dems hold their votes together. I would expect some to want to move away from the far Leftists. But no sign of movement yet. It kinda makes the point that, while we'd like a full repeal and to get govt. out, even this RINO bill is struggling with the actors involved at this point.
I personally doubt this will make it through the Senate.
Quote from: topside on May 04, 2017, 12:18:54 PM
So the House vote is in ... summary below ... sorry about the spacing in the copy / paste, but you'll figure it out.
Majority needed to pass Yes No Not voting
Republicans 217 20 1
Democrats 0 193 0
Total 217 213 1
This RINO bill only passed the house by only two votes - they rallied only one excess vote. There were 20 Pubs that voted against ... I haven't been able to determine whether the Pub No's were from the FC or not or RINOs that thought the bill was too far right.
But what still amazes me is that the Dems hold their votes together. I would expect some to want to move away from the far Leftists. But no sign of movement yet. It kinda makes the point that, while we'd like a full repeal and to get govt. out, even this RINO bill is struggling with the actors involved at this point.
I personally doubt this will make it through the Senate.
The house democrats are lemmings. Also, Pelosi rules with an iron hand and plenty of money. How do we think she keeps getting elected leader of the democrats in the house?
Quote from: walkstall on May 04, 2017, 09:47:17 AM
It's just me. From the first few post I have seen ldub23 more as a Shill. With his doom and gloom, this is the best we are going to get so let run with it. :rolleyes: The old bait and switch.
You may see this as a first down, I see it a one more touchdown for the lib's and RINO's. Get the government out of H/C, everything about my health is now on computers. Those computers files have been compromised so I have been told by a letter that came in the mail. The government's b o care was going to save me 2.500$ a year. :rolleyes: Government's b o care now cost me over 6.000$ more a year.
We are the Government Congress and we are here to help. :rolleyes:
Yeah ... the Marxist was so detached from reality it's hard for any of us to believe even he could be as wrong as he was and to have lied to us to the degree that he did. You're paying $500 a month and I would guess that your deductible is about $15k. My wife and I combine to pay about $520 a month for Medishare (a health share organization ... not really insurance) and my pre-existing heart conditions aren't covered. I'd be paying $1500 / month with a $15k deductible if I purchased BO care insurance. Before BO care I used to pay about $600 / month with $1000 deductible ... but that may have been subsidized by my company ... I work for myself now.
I have had about 500 calls (estimate ... but not exaggerated) about buying BOcare. They call me about four times a week still. When I was shopping, I went through the exchange and was quoted a premium of $200 per month. I knew this was wrong, but asked about the deductable and they didn't know! Now that's a well trained BO Monkey in one of his awesome jobs. It was such a joke.
I have friends that work similar to me and said they paid about $1500 per month with a high deductible. So I eventually told her that I thought her quote was wrong. So THEN she asked how much money I made. I told her $80k - made up a low figure. She then said that my income was too high ... and my premium would be about $1200 per month. She said I could get less expensive insurance if I reduced my income. I'm not kidding ... she said that out loud.
Then I spoke to a few more of their representatives ... just seeing what they would say. All that I spoke with were in a hurry to sell insurance but had no idea about how it worked. It showed me that BO care was much worse than I thought it could be; a train wreck from the top to the bottom. There is a reason why conservatives want limited govt. Govt. should work only roads and military - national infrastructure. Maybe advise and entice states for some things when there are problems (e.g., clean air in LA), but no growth beyond that. They always screw it up because those who legislate don't live in the consequences.
So now someone is going to say that I made the case for them - the current bill should fail because the govt. sucks at doing anything and we conservatives are about limited govt. I still think the current bill needs to pass because a full repeal will not pass and I believe the implications of a loss has greater consequences at this particular time.
Quote from: supsalemgr on May 04, 2017, 12:23:16 PM
The house democrats are lemmings. Also, Pelosi rules with an iron hand and plenty of money. How do we think she keeps getting elected leader of the democrats in the house?
Sure, Pelosi has to be a tough old bird to hold that position. But it's incomprehensible that she could have this much control regardless of her money. Wouldn't you think that at lease one of the 193 would recognize that this IS the best deal the Dims will ever see from the Pubs on this ... and grow a spine? I take two surprises away from this vote: 1) The Pubs are marginally behind the HC bill, 2) that the Dim leadership has much stronger control over the House Dims than I imagined ... not even one vote for a Dim-oriented HC bill.
Quote from: supsalemgr on May 04, 2017, 12:23:16 PM
The house democrats are lemmings. Also, Pelosi rules with an iron hand and plenty of money. How do we think she keeps getting elected leader of the democrats in the house?
I think we can rule out her good looks as the reason. Or her wit. or her intelligence. Or her charm. Or..........
Personally if this Bill passes and goes into law 2016 would be my last republican vote I will ever cast. I don't care who the hell is on the ticket in the future.
There was very loud voices on repealing Obamacare. Them voices have been silent since the election of Donald Trump.
2010 give us the House to repeal Obamacare. Bingo you got it.
2012 we also need the Senate to repeal Obamacare. Bingo you got it.
2016 we also need the Presidency to repeal Obamacare. Bingo you go it.
Now that we have the House, Senate, and the Presidency....Bingo no repeal just a replace so far. Let see if the Senate keeps their word.
As far as I can tell, Thomas Massey and Andy Biggs are the only two conservatives of the twenty who voted against the HC bill in the House today. The rest are RINOs that thought the bill didn't do enough - someone should look through the list and confirm if I have it right.
http://therightscoop.com/here-are-the-20-republicans-who-voted-against-the-obamacare-reform-bill/ (http://therightscoop.com/here-are-the-20-republicans-who-voted-against-the-obamacare-reform-bill/)
Heard on a TV broadcast in passing that the Senate intends to write their own bill. But have no independent confirmation.
Quote from: topside on May 04, 2017, 06:05:23 PM
As far as I can tell, Thomas Massey and Andy Biggs are the only two conservatives of the twenty who voted against the HC bill in the House today. The rest are RINOs that thought the bill didn't do enough - someone should look through the list and confirm if I have it right.
http://therightscoop.com/here-are-the-20-republicans-who-voted-against-the-obamacare-reform-bill/ (http://therightscoop.com/here-are-the-20-republicans-who-voted-against-the-obamacare-reform-bill/)
Heard on a TV broadcast in passing that the Senate intends to write their own bill. But have no independent confirmation.
The Washington Post released the same information.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/if-house-passes-gop-health-care-bill-a-steeper-climb-awaits-in-the-senate/2017/05/04/26a901da-30bd-11e7-8674-437ddb6e813e_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_healthsenate-930a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.bdf4a5518419
It seems that the RINO's are determined to write their own bill; this can't be good. What about Rand Paul or Ted Cruz's bill?? This is frustrating, especially when we have 9 Senate seats up for grabs in 2018. :angry:
Also reporting:
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331996-gop-senators-to-house-healthcare-bill-must-change
Is this better than Obamacare? Yes. Will costs go down? Maybe. Is this the best we can get? No The best would be the government staying f**k out of it.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 04, 2017, 07:40:10 PM
It seems that the RINO's are determined to write their own bill; this can't be good. What about Rand Paul or Ted Cruz's bill?? This is frustrating, especially when we have 9 Senate seats up for grabs in 2018. :angry:
And if the bill fails and tax cuts never occur then the dems have the senate and house in 2018.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on May 04, 2017, 08:43:46 PM
Is this better than Obamacare? Yes. Will costs go down? Maybe. Is this the best we can get? No The best would be the government staying f**k out of it.
You have nailed it Boo. Is it what we would have liked in total? No. We must keep in mind Obamacare was designed as a massive bureaucratic scam. They purposely constructed it to be difficult to undo and were successful in that effort. Being an optimist, here is my take on what was done yesterday. It is my understanding the mandates and taxes of Obamacare are eliminated. That in and of itself is good. We can only hope the marketplace opens up and businesses can expand and offer group coverage to employees. That being said, knowing the leftists in the senate the good parts of the bill probably be stripped from it.
Charles Krauthammer says we'll have single-payer within the next few years.
QuoteOn Fox News Thursday night, Tucker Carlson asked Krauthammer if he believes guaranteed coverage for preexisting conditions is now "sacrosanct."
"Absolutely sacrosanct," Krauthammer said. "I think what conservatives and Republicans are beginning to understand is how the fundamental view of healthcare among the American people has changed."
While the pundit believes Obamacare is performing poorly and was a political disaster for Democrats, he argues that it had one major victory.
"Over these past seven years people's expectations have changed," he said. "The grounds [for healthcare debate] are all liberal grounds...It's showing that the country is at a point where I think it believes in universal coverage."
http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/04/krauthammer-conservatives-are-losing-on-healthcare-video/
In other words, the bastards wore us down.
Quote from: quiller on May 05, 2017, 05:41:23 AM
Charles Krauthammer says we'll have single-payer within the next few years.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/04/krauthammer-conservatives-are-losing-on-healthcare-video/
In other words, the bastards wore us down.
I don't know that the democrats wore us down as much as they convinced our citizens that healthcare is an entitlement. That is part of the leftist ideology. Too many of our citizens are convinced that government is the solution to all concerns.
Quote from: ldub23 on May 05, 2017, 04:18:43 AM
And if the bill fails and tax cuts never occur then the dems have the senate and house in 2018.
More wishful thinking?
The root cause of the HC dilemma is that "we the people" now think that entitlements are good and congress has no spine to do what is principled.
There are too many that think loosing an entitlement cripples them ... when it's the entitlement that is the crippling agent.
And Congress doesn't act objectively on the facts that the insurance business is driven by risks ... pre-existing conditions, promiscuous lifestyle, and other bad choices (e.g., smoking for 10 years or killing your liver in alcohol) leads to greater costs. Costs will never come down until the fact behind the risks are approach objectively. Put these groups in their own pool; and if they can't afford the coverage, it's game over. Yeah - that's hard. But pretending otherwise gets us to where we are now.
Then we have the hemorrhaging drug issue ... "we need more Medicade to treat the drug problem". Another bad choice that you make the healthy pay for. I say three strikes and you're out: 1) treatment the first time, 2) scared straight by viewing what's to come in the drug Hospice camps if you fall again, 3) you get a membership to a drug Hospice camp - live in your lifestyle of choice and wait for you to die. We've got to face fact that HC does not balance when we cover the consequences of peoples bad decisions.
If we man-up to not covering the bad lifestyle choice areas, we probably could pool together and cover the typical conditions that became pre-existing when BO care ended up kicking so many off their previous policies, e.g., typical heart issues, lung issues (non-smokers), etc.
I've come around to MsIndie's position. I'm new to the political environment (a couple years paying attention) and, in general, now believe it is hopeless to try and account for steps that move in the right direct ... rather, take your stand and be willing to die on that hill. Just vote straight up repeal - vote to move insurance back to the free market. Screw the political environment. It has almost no chance of passing with full repeal but let the socialist public and Congress live in the latrine they seem to like. Unfortunately, the Conservatives end up living in the same cesspool with them - I see this going no other way.
At this point, I'm praying for good health and trying to live the life I have left free of the burden of paying the high govt. insurance rates with high deductibles. I've chosen to be in a Health Share program - lower costs, lower "deductable", no official policy, the members share each others costs, administered by a Christian organization that has been faithful to do right by it's members for many years (so far), and does not accept pre-existing conditions. I actually have a pre-existing condition that won't necessarily be shared among the members if it goes wrong ... it will be game over in that case. But I choose to live free of paying for most of the bad lifestyle choices of others and away from the atrocity named BO Care or similar RINO plan. I'm guessing that the govt. will eventually try to take that choice away too ... just watch.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 04, 2017, 09:03:14 AM
Re-addressed for repeal a couple of years later?? You yourself just stated that a repeal was voted on 54 times and failed! So to pass a bill now in hopes to repeal later is counter productive and quite honestly to me, absurd. Yes the media is having a frenzy right now and the GOP is in a hurry to get something passed. In reality they should be ignoring the media and pushing for full REPEAL. Keep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed. Also, keep in mind that just about everyone up for re-election in '18 campaigned on the promise of REPEAL. If they don't deliver they jeopardize their seats and further jeopardize a chance of successfully repealing parts of the new bill in the future.
Just want to go on record MsIndie - I've moved to your side. I'm at peace with voting straight up repeal. Let the chips fall where they may.
Just for triage on your arguments: I'm guessing that you had a fact in mind that you didn't think require expression. You probably could have persuaded me in your direction more directly by pointing out
why waiting two years to adjust (Trump's phases) is ludicrous. It's because congressional votes and leadership are so undependable / unpredictable. Who knows what trades will be on the table that week - two years from now! And current conditions drive the compromises of principles in Congress. I admit ... I even fell for the compromise to get movement in a direction toward the right. But I think that's a failed strategy ... there are some principles (like limited govt. control) worth dying on the hill for and shouldn't be compromised. It's important to choose priority battles, but "limited govt." is a stake that shouldn't move.
We can't even predict how Trump or even the FC will vote in two years. The only thing you can do is move the base - and that takes patience, time, and money. For example, the communist agenda (as Solar was discussing in another post) is evidence ... Congress hasn't yet overtly voted to put a communist position in place but here we are with much of their list checked off ... the base was moved through judicious and patient manipulation of the culture. Something behind the scenes is at work heating the kettle up and the frog hasn't jumped out.
What I think will happen to HC is Trump Care will fail in the Senate ... or Repeal will fail if the Senate changes the House bill to Repeal and sends it back to the House ... either way. Then we will see the cesspool of BO Care run into the swamp and hope those addicted to handouts will get tired of the stench and see the light. Fat chance ... they'll probably just get used to the taste of the free urine. The mechanism to make this move are behind the scenes. Even then, the odds are against; have we ever seen a govt. handout reversed?
I have been listening and reading all the conversation about the bill the house passed. It seems the big hangup is the preexisting condition situation. This was the trap that Obama and the democrats included in Obamacare. Once this was included the program quit being insurance and became an entitlement. The reason policies had a preexisting clause was to control costs. Most polices did not totally exclude coverage, but had a waiting period before those would be covered. Let's be clear about something. Health insurance is like car insurance and the consumer should be allowed to make choices about what, or what not, coverage to purchase. However, Obamacare took choice away and mandated that people buy whatever coverage was offered and removed choice. So now the public is hooked and expects the government to subsidize their coverage. This was the democrat scheme from the get go.
We need to keep in mind that the bill as written will not be voted on in the senate. The senate will make make changes, add amendments etc.
Quote from: supsalemgr on May 06, 2017, 12:04:22 PM
I have been listening and reading all the conversation about the bill the house passed. It seems the big hangup is the preexisting condition situation. This was the trap that Obama and the democrats included in Obamacare. Once this was included the program quit being insurance and became an entitlement. The reason policies had a preexisting clause was to control costs. Most polices did not totally exclude coverage, but had a waiting period before those would be covered. Let's be clear about something. Health insurance is like car insurance and the consumer should be allowed to make choices about what, or what not, coverage to purchase. However, Obamacare took choice away and mandated that people buy whatever coverage was offered and removed choice. So now the public is hooked and expects the government to subsidize their coverage. This was the democrat scheme from the get go.
The House bill does repeal some specific taxes and mandates. Bottom line; the House FAILED to REPEAL which is what was promised to the people. Ok ... they've kicked it to the Senate and from my understanding Collins and Cornyn are leading the Senate in writing their own bill. Would could possibly go wrong? Meanwhile ALL seats are up for grabs in the House in '18 along with 9 Senate seats. Kind of makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it?
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 07, 2017, 05:52:19 PM
The House bill does repeal some specific taxes and mandates. Bottom line; the House FAILED to REPEAL which is what was promised to the people. Ok ... they've kicked it to the Senate and from my understanding Collins and Cornyn are leading the Senate in writing their own bill. Would could possibly go wrong? Meanwhile ALL seats are up for grabs in the House in '18 along with 9 Senate seats. Kind of makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it?
The longer this fight goes on between the GOP and the tar baby the smarter Trump looks. Remember he said, if we do nothing Obamacare would fall from its own weight. Then it would still be the democrats' program. Now the GOP has this hot potato.
The left never ceases to amaze with their outrageous statements. I realize it is all they have now, but they are the gift that keeps on giving.
Yesterday Johnathan Gruber, the architect of Obamacare, was on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace. He had the audacity to charge that Trump is responsible for the collapse of Obamacare. Fortunately, Wallace quickly called him out on it.
I have a little different take on this!
With the house passing this bill it goes to the Senate. Now the senate I hope slow walks it and puts in needed changes but keeps it moving. If the senate RINO's do not remove the taxes when it comes back to the House there will not be enough conservative support to pass it. I think with Cruz and the other conservatives in the Senate they May actually come up with a much better Bill.
Meantime Obamacare continues to implode as Insurers continue to pull out of the market place. The Dim's take full blame for their Law collapsing and cannot say that the Republicans are not attempting to fix the problem. By the time that both Houses come together with the final real bill, Probably next year sometime, It will look nothing like what was just passed.
The Senate committee hearings should be real fun to watch epically later this year as Obama care collapses and the Dim's start to get desperate! If I am reading this right the House passing this bill will work out to be a good thing!
Quote from: redbeard on May 08, 2017, 04:13:13 PM
I have a little different take on this!
With the house passing this bill it goes to the Senate. Now the senate I hope slow walks it and puts in needed changes but keeps it moving. If the senate RINO's do not remove the taxes when it comes back to the House there will not be enough conservative support to pass it. I think with Cruz and the other conservatives in the Senate they May actually come up with a much better Bill.
Meantime Obamacare continues to implode as Insurers continue to pull out of the market place. The Dim's take full blame for their Law collapsing and cannot say that the Republicans are not attempting to fix the problem. By the time that both Houses come together with the final real bill, Probably next year sometime, It will look nothing like what was just passed.
The Senate committee hearings should be real fun to watch epically later this year as Obama care collapses and the Dim's start to get desperate! If I am reading this right the House passing this bill will work out to be a good thing!
Except...the House passed a bill that is making changes to the ACA, so the GOP now owns it...from this point forward. Had they just waited for it to implode...the DEMS would have owned the ACA failing, 100%. Then the House and Senate could have created a brand new bill. Paul and Cruz have already put a plan together ... no one seems to be warming up to the idea of free markets, expanding health savings plans or detaching health insurance from employers.
Dems are not desperate on this...they have already washed their hands of any responsibility -- blaming the House for 'gassing' (Bette Midler) and killing (Warren) people.
Bottom line: Neither House has repealed the ACA and that is what was promised. Cruz is 100% correct; to not repeal the ACA will be catastrophic to the GOP in '18.
Added to this, the wall is not included in the current budget, nor is and money allowed in future budgets for a wall.
The GOP has blown it in less than 6 months.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 08, 2017, 04:51:27 PM
Except...the House passed a bill that is making changes to the ACA, so the GOP now owns it...from this point forward. Had they just waited for it to implode...the DEMS would have owned the ACA failing, 100%. Then the House and Senate could have created a brand new bill. Paul and Cruz have already put a plan together ... no one seems to be warming up to the idea of free markets, expanding health savings plans or detaching health insurance from employers.
Dems are not desperate on this...they have already washed their hands of any responsibility -- blaming the House for 'gassing' (Bette Midler) and killing (Warren) people.
Bottom line: Neither House has repealed the ACA and that is what was promised. Cruz is 100% correct; to not repeal the ACA will be catastrophic to the GOP in '18.
Added to this, the wall is not included in the current budget, nor is and money allowed in future budgets for a wall.
The GOP has blown it in less than 6 months.
Wrong! The house just passed a bill that went to the senate! Nothing has changed Obama care is still the law of the land until the senate passes their version and the House votes again! Until Trump has the law on his desk and signs it. Obama care is sill there and the Dim's own it!
QuoteMcConnell said Congress must overhaul the nation's current healthcare system due to the "indefensible Obamacare status quo."
"It's the least members in both parties owe to the countless Americans who continue to suffer under Obamacare and the countless more who will be hurt if we don't act," he said.
McConnell must have at least 51 votes for the bill to pass in the Senate, after announcing Sunday the decision would be made with a majority vote. The Senate has 52 Republican senators, not all of whom are on board with the new healthcare bill.
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/AHCA-Senate-Mitch-McConnell-repeal-and-replace/2017/05/08/id/788850/
They are going to draw this out and it is to our advantage at this time!
Quote from: redbeard on May 08, 2017, 05:04:37 PM
Wrong! The house just passed a bill that went to the senate! Nothing has changed Obama care is still the law of the land until the senate passes their version and the House votes again! Until Trump has the law on his desk and signs it. Obama care is sill there and the Dim's own it!
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/AHCA-Senate-Mitch-McConnell-repeal-and-replace/2017/05/08/id/788850/
They are going to draw this out and it is to our advantage at this time!
You and I know that the bill went from the House to the Senate. Those that don't know any better are listening to the MSM about how the GOP passed the bill. The liberal lunatics are now blaming the GOP for causing death and equating this to gassing Americans. As far as all the low information voters go, the GOP now owns healthcare.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 08, 2017, 05:19:05 PM
You and I know that the bill went from the House to the Senate. Those that don't know any better are listening to the MSM about how the GOP passed the bill. The liberal lunatics are now blaming the GOP for causing death and equating this to gassing Americans. As far as all the low information voters go, the GOP now owns healthcare.
Until the same dumb shits have to do the open enrolment. The MSM can only keep up the lies for so long and it will come back to bite them!
I say, so far, it's a good thing. If they did nothing the attack would be that the Republicans have nothing and don't care about your Heath care but by starting the ball rolling, Slowly, That attack is gone. Now they have to fight on the merits of the revised bill and the republicans can show that the Dim's are the obstructionist! A great position to be in as Obama care crashes and burns!! :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: redbeard on May 08, 2017, 05:39:35 PM
Until the same dumb shits have to do the open enrolment. The MSM can only keep up the lies for so long and it will come back to bite them!
I say, so far, it's a good thing. If they did nothing the attack would be that the Republicans have nothing and don't care about your Heath care but by starting the ball rolling, Slowly, That attack is gone. Now they have to fight on the merits of the revised bill and the republicans can show that the Dim's are the obstructionist! A great position to be in as Obama care crashes and burns!! :popcorn: :popcorn:
Except the majority of the GOP candidates promised REPEAL and replace. The House only repealed bits and pieces and replaced bits and pieces. So in essence ... they failed to deliver what was promised for years. Now it's in the Senate. IF the Senate tweaks it a bit here and there as the House did they will fail also in delivering what was promised to the American people for years.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 10, 2017, 05:21:44 PM
Except the majority of the GOP candidates promised REPEAL and replace. The House only repealed bits and pieces and replaced bits and pieces. So in essence ... they failed to deliver what was promised for years. Now it's in the Senate. IF the Senate tweaks it a bit here and there as the House did they will fail also in delivering what was promised to the American people for years.
QuoteAetna Inc. will leave the few remaining states where it had been selling Obamacare plans next year, making it the latest health insurer to pull out of the health law as Republicans attack the program as failing and work to dismantle it.
While the move is likely to attract outsize political attention, the decision affects just Delaware and Nebraska. The Hartford, Connecticut-based insurer already said last year it would pull out of 11 states, and in the last month announced plans to exit Iowa and Virginia.
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets
The longer the senate takes the better it is to completely demolish the ACA. It is imploding on a daily basis and the Dims are killing themselves by obstructing not just this but everything going though congress! I think the intention is to let it die the death of a thousand cuts by slow walking this legislation.
Schumer, I think is starting to see this but is stuck in his assigned role. Thus the Olive branch!
QuoteSchumer: 'Back Off Repeal' and Dems Will Help on Healthcare
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said Tuesday the Democrats would work with Republicans to craft healthcare legislation as long as they "back off repeal" regarding Obamacare.
"We said back off repeal, which would walk back many of these things completely or by degree, and we'll work with you to fix it," the New York Democrat told Jake Tapper on CNN. "They still haven't gotten up to the first stage.
"Until they back off repeal, there's really nothing we can talk about," he said.
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Chuck-Schumer-AHCA-repeal-and-replace-Democrats/2017/05/09/id/789126/
The snow flakes and Dims are being played on this issue and being shown for the partisan hacks they really are!
I don't believe the republicans or Trump have any real intention of passing this house bill in it's present form. The longer they take the better their position to deal with this will be! This House bill is a Straw man designed to F**K the Dim's! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: redbeard on May 10, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets
The longer the senate takes the better it is to completely demolish the ACA. It is imploding on a daily basis and the Dims are killing themselves by obstructing not just this but everything going though congress! I think the intention is to let it die the death of a thousand cuts by slow walking this legislation.
Schumer, I think is starting to see this but is stuck in his assigned role. Thus the Olive branch! http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Chuck-Schumer-AHCA-repeal-and-replace-Democrats/2017/05/09/id/789126/
The snow flakes and Dims are being played on this issue and being shown for the partisan hacks they really are!
I don't believe the republicans or Trump have any real intention of passing this house bill in it's present form. The longer they take the better their position to deal with this will be! This House bill is a Straw man designed to F**K the Dim's! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Actually, if the REPS don't repeal and replace then its the people who get fu**ed! IMHO this should be a partisan issue, but an American issue. The people were promised the repeal of a very bad bill that was designed to destroy the economy and bring this country to it's knees.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 10, 2017, 05:47:10 PM
Actually, if the REPS don't repeal and replace then its the people who get fu**ed! IMHO this should be a partisan issue, but an American issue. The people were promised the repeal of a very bad bill that was designed to destroy the economy and bring this country to it's knees.
It is only 107 days Obama care took 1 1/2 years to cram down our throats I say stand back and enjoy the show! It is the Dims that have to come around. If the Republicans do it on their own the blow back could really cost us. Believe it or not next year, an election year, with Obama care on it's death bed may be the time to do the real repair work needed or it will be the dim's that will find themselves explaining to all of the voters in their districts why fighting Trump on everything is more important then doing the peoples work they were sent to DC to do!
Quote from: redbeard on May 10, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets
The longer the senate takes the better it is to completely demolish the ACA. It is imploding on a daily basis and the Dims are killing themselves by obstructing not just this but everything going though congress! I think the intention is to let it die the death of a thousand cuts by slow walking this legislation.
Schumer, I think is starting to see this but is stuck in his assigned role. Thus the Olive branch! http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Chuck-Schumer-AHCA-repeal-and-replace-Democrats/2017/05/09/id/789126/
The snow flakes and Dims are being played on this issue and being shown for the partisan hacks they really are!
I don't believe the republicans or Trump have any real intention of passing this house bill in it's present form. The longer they take the better their position to deal with this will be! This House bill is a Straw man designed to F**K the Dim's! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Aetna announced they were pulling out of some more markets. Trump said let it collapse on its own. McConnell should be playing hard ball with the democrats. The GOP has the cards and the democrats still have Obamacare.
Quote from: supsalemgr on May 11, 2017, 04:36:58 AM
Aetna announced they were pulling out of some more markets. Trump said let it collapse on its own. McConnell should be playing hard ball with the democrats. The GOP has the cards and the democrats still have Obamacare.
Mighty Mouse McConnell thinks that spooning a lump in his oatmeal is playing hardball.
Quote from: quiller on May 11, 2017, 04:45:35 AM
Mighty Mouse McConnell thinks that spooning a lump in his oatmeal is playing hardball.
I realize this is not breaking news, but I am sick and tired of the GOP wimps in the senate. Now Schumer is
threatening to hold up appointment of a new FBI director if a special prosecutor is not appointed to investigate the Russian connection in the 2016 elections. McConnell should tell Chuckie to pound sand and fast track any appointment.
Quote from: supsalemgr on May 11, 2017, 07:58:03 AM
I realize this is not breaking news, but I am sick and tired of the GOP wimps in the senate. Now Schumer is threatening to hold up appointment of a new FBI director if a special prosecutor is not appointed to investigate the Russian connection in the 2016 elections. McConnell should tell Chuckie to pound sand and fast track any appointment.
The
timing of Comey asking for more money to investigate the Russian connection (if any) is what makes me think they need to actually examine that issue in minute detail. At least be sure this isn't the Watergate-level cover-up the libs are so delirious about uncovering.
Quote from: quiller on May 11, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
The timing of Comey asking for more money to investigate the Russian connection (if any) is what makes me think they need to actually examine that issue in minute detail. At least be sure this isn't the Watergate-level cover-up the libs are so delirious about uncovering.
Make sure it is not a Hillary-gate-level cover-up.
QuoteActing FBI Director REFUTES Reports that Comey Asked for More Funding for Russia Investigation (VIDEO)
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/acting-fbi-director-refutes-reports-comey-asked-funding-russia-investigation-video/
Quote from: quiller on May 11, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
The timing of Comey asking for more money to investigate the Russian connection (if any) is what makes me think they need to actually examine that issue in minute detail. At least be sure this isn't the Watergate-level cover-up the libs are so delirious about uncovering.
Do we really think Trump and his advisors would be so stupid? If so, he really has to be reconsidered.
Walks suggests it might be a Hillary-gate cover-up (and I would applaud a thorough Benghazi probe, but this isn't that topic). Right now everybody calls everybody else a liar and that spells Ripe For Special Investigation. Yowza. Do it up. Trump's people do have much to answer over their business connections.
Let a bipartisan probe dig all it wants. If nothing is there, nothing is there. If there IS something to it, jail the usual mid-level suspects and go on with stuff.....
Quote from: quiller on May 11, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
The timing of Comey asking for more money to investigate the Russian connection (if any) is what makes me think they need to actually examine that issue in minute detail. At least be sure this isn't the Watergate-level cover-up the libs are so delirious about uncovering.
Fake News! Comey never made that request!
QuoteMcCabe also denied reports that Comey had requested more resources for the Russia probe in the days leading up to his termination, with McCabe saying he believes the probe to be "adequately resourced" and adding that normally the FBI will not request resources for a single investigation
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/11/mccabe-says-fbi-call-not-to-prosecute-clinton-angered-some-agents-defends-comey.html
Quote from: redbeard on May 11, 2017, 05:27:53 PM
Fake News! Comey never made that request!
Just going by the breathless half-truthful news accounts which were available.... :lol: