I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.

Started by ldub23, May 04, 2017, 04:36:40 AM

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topside

#30
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 04, 2017, 09:03:14 AM
Re-addressed for repeal a couple of years later??  You yourself just stated that a repeal was voted on 54 times and failed!  So to pass a bill now in hopes to repeal later is counter productive and quite honestly to me, absurd.  Yes the media is having a frenzy right now and the GOP is in a hurry to get something passed.  In reality they should be ignoring the media and pushing for full REPEAL.  Keep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed.  Also, keep in mind that just about everyone up for re-election in '18 campaigned on the promise of REPEAL.  If they don't deliver they jeopardize their seats and further jeopardize a chance of successfully repealing parts of the new bill in the future.

Just want to go on record MsIndie - I've moved to your side. I'm at peace with voting straight up repeal. Let the chips fall where they may.

Just for triage on your arguments: I'm guessing that you had a fact in mind that you didn't think require expression. You probably could have persuaded me in your direction more directly by pointing out why waiting two years to adjust (Trump's phases) is ludicrous. It's because congressional votes and leadership are so undependable / unpredictable. Who knows what trades will be on the table that week - two years from now! And current conditions drive the compromises of principles in Congress. I admit ... I even fell for the compromise to get movement in a direction toward the right. But I think that's a failed strategy ... there are some principles (like limited govt. control) worth dying on the hill for and shouldn't be compromised. It's important to choose priority battles, but "limited govt." is a stake that shouldn't move. 

We can't even predict how Trump or even the FC will vote in two years. The only thing you can do is move the base - and that takes patience, time, and money. For example, the communist agenda (as Solar was discussing in another post) is evidence ... Congress hasn't yet overtly voted to put a communist position in place but here we are with much of their list checked off ... the base was moved through judicious and patient manipulation of the culture. Something behind the scenes is at work heating the kettle up and the frog hasn't jumped out.   

What I think will happen to HC  is Trump Care will fail in the Senate ... or Repeal will fail if the Senate changes the House bill to Repeal and sends it back to the House ... either way. Then we will see the cesspool of BO Care run into the swamp and hope those addicted to handouts will get tired of the stench and see the light. Fat chance ... they'll probably just get used to the taste of the free urine. The mechanism to make this move are behind the scenes. Even then, the odds are against; have we ever seen a govt. handout reversed?

supsalemgr

I have been listening and reading all the conversation about the bill the house passed. It seems the big hangup is the preexisting condition situation. This was the trap that Obama and the democrats included in Obamacare. Once this was included the program quit being insurance and became an entitlement. The reason policies had a preexisting clause was to control costs. Most polices did not totally exclude coverage, but had a waiting period before those would be covered. Let's be clear about something. Health insurance is like car insurance and the consumer should be allowed to make choices about what, or what not, coverage to purchase. However, Obamacare took choice away and mandated that people buy whatever coverage was offered and removed choice. So now the public is hooked and expects the government to subsidize their coverage. This was the democrat scheme from the get go.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Cryptic Bert

We need to keep in mind that the bill as written will not be voted on in the senate. The senate will make make changes, add amendments etc.

Ms.Independence

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 06, 2017, 12:04:22 PM
I have been listening and reading all the conversation about the bill the house passed. It seems the big hangup is the preexisting condition situation. This was the trap that Obama and the democrats included in Obamacare. Once this was included the program quit being insurance and became an entitlement. The reason policies had a preexisting clause was to control costs. Most polices did not totally exclude coverage, but had a waiting period before those would be covered. Let's be clear about something. Health insurance is like car insurance and the consumer should be allowed to make choices about what, or what not, coverage to purchase. However, Obamacare took choice away and mandated that people buy whatever coverage was offered and removed choice. So now the public is hooked and expects the government to subsidize their coverage. This was the democrat scheme from the get go.

The House bill does repeal some specific taxes and mandates. Bottom line; the House FAILED to REPEAL which is what was promised to the people.  Ok ... they've kicked it to the Senate and from my understanding Collins and Cornyn are leading the Senate in writing their own bill.  Would could possibly go wrong?  Meanwhile ALL seats are up for grabs in the House in '18 along with 9 Senate seats.  Kind of makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it?
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

supsalemgr

Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 07, 2017, 05:52:19 PM
The House bill does repeal some specific taxes and mandates. Bottom line; the House FAILED to REPEAL which is what was promised to the people.  Ok ... they've kicked it to the Senate and from my understanding Collins and Cornyn are leading the Senate in writing their own bill.  Would could possibly go wrong?  Meanwhile ALL seats are up for grabs in the House in '18 along with 9 Senate seats.  Kind of makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it?

The longer this fight goes on between the GOP and the tar baby the smarter Trump looks. Remember he said, if we do nothing Obamacare would fall from its own weight. Then it would still be the democrats' program. Now the GOP has this hot potato.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

supsalemgr

The left never ceases to amaze with their outrageous statements. I realize it is all they have now, but they are the gift that keeps on giving.

Yesterday Johnathan Gruber, the architect of Obamacare, was on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace. He had the audacity to charge that Trump is responsible for the collapse of Obamacare. Fortunately, Wallace quickly called him out on it.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

redbeard

I have a little different take on this!
With the house passing this bill it goes to the Senate. Now the senate I hope slow walks it and puts in needed changes but keeps it moving. If the senate RINO's do not remove the taxes when it comes back to the House there will not be enough conservative support to pass it. I think with Cruz and the other conservatives in the Senate they May actually come up with a much better Bill.
Meantime Obamacare continues to implode as Insurers continue to pull out of the market place. The Dim's take full blame for their Law collapsing and cannot say that the Republicans are not attempting to fix the problem. By the time that both Houses come together with the final real bill, Probably next year sometime, It will look nothing like what was just passed.
The Senate committee hearings should be real fun to watch epically later this year as Obama care collapses and the Dim's start to get desperate! If I am reading this right the House passing this bill will work out to be a good thing!

Ms.Independence

Quote from: redbeard on May 08, 2017, 04:13:13 PM
I have a little different take on this!
With the house passing this bill it goes to the Senate. Now the senate I hope slow walks it and puts in needed changes but keeps it moving. If the senate RINO's do not remove the taxes when it comes back to the House there will not be enough conservative support to pass it. I think with Cruz and the other conservatives in the Senate they May actually come up with a much better Bill.
Meantime Obamacare continues to implode as Insurers continue to pull out of the market place. The Dim's take full blame for their Law collapsing and cannot say that the Republicans are not attempting to fix the problem. By the time that both Houses come together with the final real bill, Probably next year sometime, It will look nothing like what was just passed.
The Senate committee hearings should be real fun to watch epically later this year as Obama care collapses and the Dim's start to get desperate! If I am reading this right the House passing this bill will work out to be a good thing!

Except...the House passed a bill that is making changes to the ACA, so the GOP now owns it...from this point forward.  Had they just waited for it to implode...the DEMS would have owned the ACA failing, 100%. Then the House and Senate could have created a brand new bill.  Paul and Cruz have already put a plan together ... no one seems to be warming up to the idea of free markets, expanding health savings plans or detaching health insurance from employers.

Dems are not desperate on this...they have already washed their hands of any responsibility -- blaming the House for 'gassing' (Bette Midler) and killing (Warren) people. 

Bottom line:  Neither House has repealed the ACA and that is what was promised. Cruz is 100% correct; to not repeal the ACA will be catastrophic to the GOP in '18.

Added to this, the wall is not included in the current budget, nor is and money allowed in future budgets for a wall.

The GOP has blown it in less than 6 months.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

redbeard

#38
Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 08, 2017, 04:51:27 PM
Except...the House passed a bill that is making changes to the ACA, so the GOP now owns it...from this point forward.  Had they just waited for it to implode...the DEMS would have owned the ACA failing, 100%. Then the House and Senate could have created a brand new bill.  Paul and Cruz have already put a plan together ... no one seems to be warming up to the idea of free markets, expanding health savings plans or detaching health insurance from employers.

Dems are not desperate on this...they have already washed their hands of any responsibility -- blaming the House for 'gassing' (Bette Midler) and killing (Warren) people. 

Bottom line:  Neither House has repealed the ACA and that is what was promised. Cruz is 100% correct; to not repeal the ACA will be catastrophic to the GOP in '18.

Added to this, the wall is not included in the current budget, nor is and money allowed in future budgets for a wall.

The GOP has blown it in less than 6 months.
Wrong! The house just passed a bill that went to the senate! Nothing has changed Obama care is still the law of the land until the senate passes their version and the House votes again! Until Trump has the law on his desk and signs it. Obama care is sill there and the Dim's own it!

QuoteMcConnell said Congress must overhaul the nation's current healthcare system due to the "indefensible Obamacare status quo."
"It's the least members in both parties owe to the countless Americans who continue to suffer under Obamacare and the countless more who will be hurt if we don't act," he said.
McConnell must have at least 51 votes for the bill to pass in the Senate, after announcing Sunday the decision would be made with a majority vote. The Senate has 52 Republican senators, not all of whom are on board with the new healthcare bill.
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/AHCA-Senate-Mitch-McConnell-repeal-and-replace/2017/05/08/id/788850/
They are going to draw this out and it is to our advantage at this time!

Ms.Independence

Quote from: redbeard on May 08, 2017, 05:04:37 PM
Wrong! The house just passed a bill that went to the senate! Nothing has changed Obama care is still the law of the land until the senate passes their version and the House votes again! Until Trump has the law on his desk and signs it. Obama care is sill there and the Dim's own it!
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/AHCA-Senate-Mitch-McConnell-repeal-and-replace/2017/05/08/id/788850/
They are going to draw this out and it is to our advantage at this time!

You and I know that the bill went from the House to the Senate.  Those that don't know any better are listening to the MSM about how the GOP passed the bill.  The liberal lunatics are now blaming the GOP for causing death and equating this to gassing Americans.   As far as all the low information voters go, the GOP now owns healthcare.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

redbeard

Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 08, 2017, 05:19:05 PM
You and I know that the bill went from the House to the Senate.  Those that don't know any better are listening to the MSM about how the GOP passed the bill.  The liberal lunatics are now blaming the GOP for causing death and equating this to gassing Americans.   As far as all the low information voters go, the GOP now owns healthcare.
Until the same dumb shits have to do the open enrolment. The MSM can only keep up the lies for so long and it will come back to bite them!
I say, so far, it's a good thing. If they did nothing the attack would be that the Republicans have nothing and don't care about your Heath care but by starting the ball rolling, Slowly, That attack is gone. Now they have to fight on the merits of the revised bill and the republicans can show that the Dim's are the obstructionist! A great position to be in as Obama care crashes and burns!! :popcorn: :popcorn:

Ms.Independence

Quote from: redbeard on May 08, 2017, 05:39:35 PM
Until the same dumb shits have to do the open enrolment. The MSM can only keep up the lies for so long and it will come back to bite them!
I say, so far, it's a good thing. If they did nothing the attack would be that the Republicans have nothing and don't care about your Heath care but by starting the ball rolling, Slowly, That attack is gone. Now they have to fight on the merits of the revised bill and the republicans can show that the Dim's are the obstructionist! A great position to be in as Obama care crashes and burns!! :popcorn: :popcorn:

Except the majority of the GOP candidates promised REPEAL and replace.  The House only repealed bits and pieces and replaced bits and pieces.  So in essence ... they failed to deliver what was promised for years.  Now it's in the Senate.  IF the Senate tweaks it a bit here and there as the House did they will fail also in delivering what was promised to the American people for years.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

redbeard

Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 10, 2017, 05:21:44 PM
Except the majority of the GOP candidates promised REPEAL and replace.  The House only repealed bits and pieces and replaced bits and pieces.  So in essence ... they failed to deliver what was promised for years.  Now it's in the Senate.  IF the Senate tweaks it a bit here and there as the House did they will fail also in delivering what was promised to the American people for years.
QuoteAetna Inc. will leave the few remaining states where it had been selling Obamacare plans next year, making it the latest health insurer to pull out of the health law as Republicans attack the program as failing and work to dismantle it.
While the move is likely to attract outsize political attention, the decision affects just Delaware and Nebraska. The Hartford, Connecticut-based insurer already said last year it would pull out of 11 states, and in the last month announced plans to exit Iowa and Virginia.
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets
The longer the senate takes the better it is to completely demolish the ACA. It is imploding on a daily basis and the Dims are killing themselves by obstructing not just this but everything going though congress! I think the intention is to let it die the death of a thousand cuts by slow walking this legislation.
Schumer, I think is starting to see this but is stuck in his assigned role. Thus the Olive branch!
QuoteSchumer: 'Back Off Repeal' and Dems Will Help on Healthcare

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said Tuesday the Democrats would work with Republicans to craft healthcare legislation as long as they "back off repeal" regarding Obamacare.
"We said back off repeal, which would walk back many of these things completely or by degree, and we'll work with you to fix it," the New York Democrat told Jake Tapper on CNN. "They still haven't gotten up to the first stage.

"Until they back off repeal, there's really nothing we can talk about," he said.
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Chuck-Schumer-AHCA-repeal-and-replace-Democrats/2017/05/09/id/789126/
The snow flakes and Dims are being played on this issue and being shown for the partisan hacks they really are!
I don't believe the republicans or Trump have any real intention of passing this house bill in it's present form. The longer they take the better their position to deal with this will be! This House bill is a Straw man designed to F**K the Dim's! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Ms.Independence

Quote from: redbeard on May 10, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets
The longer the senate takes the better it is to completely demolish the ACA. It is imploding on a daily basis and the Dims are killing themselves by obstructing not just this but everything going though congress! I think the intention is to let it die the death of a thousand cuts by slow walking this legislation.
Schumer, I think is starting to see this but is stuck in his assigned role. Thus the Olive branch! http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Chuck-Schumer-AHCA-repeal-and-replace-Democrats/2017/05/09/id/789126/
The snow flakes and Dims are being played on this issue and being shown for the partisan hacks they really are!
I don't believe the republicans or Trump have any real intention of passing this house bill in it's present form. The longer they take the better their position to deal with this will be! This House bill is a Straw man designed to F**K the Dim's! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Actually, if the REPS don't repeal and replace then its the people who get fu**ed!  IMHO this should be a partisan issue, but an American issue.  The people were promised the repeal of a very bad bill that was designed to destroy the economy and bring this country to it's knees.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

redbeard

Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 10, 2017, 05:47:10 PM
Actually, if the REPS don't repeal and replace then its the people who get fu**ed!  IMHO this should be a partisan issue, but an American issue.  The people were promised the repeal of a very bad bill that was designed to destroy the economy and bring this country to it's knees.
It is only 107 days Obama care took 1 1/2 years to cram down our throats I say stand back and enjoy the show! It is the Dims that have to come around. If the Republicans do it on their own the blow back could really cost us. Believe it or not next year, an election year, with Obama care on it's death bed may be the time to do the real repair work needed or it will be the dim's that will find themselves explaining to all of the voters in their districts why fighting Trump on everything is more important then doing the peoples work they were sent to DC to do!