Quote from: walkstall on May 04, 2017, 09:47:17 AM

It's just me.  From the first few post I have seen ldub23 more as a Shill.  With his doom and gloom, this is the best we are going to get so let run with it.      The old bait and switch. 

You may see this as a first down, I see it a one more touchdown for the lib's and RINO's.  Get the government out of H/C, everything about my health is now on computers.     Those computers files have been compromised so I have been told by a letter that came in the mail.   The government's b o care was going to save me 2.500$ a year.       Government's b o care now cost me over 6.000$ more a year.   

We are the Government Congress and we are here to help.   

Yeah ... the Marxist was so detached from reality it's hard for any of us to believe even he could be as wrong as he was and to have lied to us to the degree that he did. You're paying $500 a month and I would guess that your deductible is about $15k. My wife and I combine to pay about $520 a month for Medishare (a health share organization ... not really insurance) and my pre-existing heart conditions aren't covered. I'd be paying $1500 / month with a $15k deductible if I purchased BO care insurance. Before BO care I used to pay about $600 / month with $1000 deductible ... but that may have been subsidized by my company ... I work for myself now.

I have had about 500 calls (estimate ... but not exaggerated) about buying BOcare. They call me about four times a week still. When I was shopping, I went through the exchange and was quoted a premium of $200 per month. I knew this was wrong, but asked about the deductable and they didn't know! Now that's a well trained BO Monkey in one of his awesome jobs. It was such a joke.

I have friends that work similar to me and said they paid about $1500 per month with a high deductible. So I eventually told her that I thought her quote was wrong. So THEN she asked how much money I made. I told her $80k - made up a low figure. She then said that my income was too high ... and my premium would be about $1200 per month. She said I could get less expensive insurance if I reduced my income. I'm not kidding ... she said that out loud.

Then I spoke to a few more of their representatives ... just seeing what they would say. All that I spoke with were in a hurry to sell insurance but had no idea about how it worked. It showed me that BO care was much worse than I thought it could be; a train wreck from the top to the bottom. There is a reason why conservatives want limited govt. Govt. should work only roads and military - national infrastructure. Maybe advise and entice states for some things when there are problems (e.g., clean air in LA), but no growth beyond that. They always screw it up because those who legislate don't live in the consequences.

So now someone is going to say that I made the case for them - the current bill should fail because the govt. sucks at doing anything and we conservatives are about limited govt. I still think the current bill needs to pass because a full repeal will not pass and I believe the implications of a loss has greater consequences at this particular time.

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 04, 2017, 12:23:16 PM
The house democrats are lemmings. Also, Pelosi rules with an iron hand and plenty of money. How do we think she keeps getting elected leader of the democrats in the house?

Sure, Pelosi has to be a tough old bird to hold that position. But it's incomprehensible that she could have this much control regardless of her money. Wouldn't you think that at lease one of the 193 would recognize that this IS the best deal the Dims will ever see from the Pubs on this ... and grow a spine? I take two surprises away from this vote: 1) The Pubs are marginally behind the HC bill, 2) that the Dim leadership has much stronger control over the House Dims than I imagined ... not even one vote for a Dim-oriented HC bill.

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 04, 2017, 12:23:16 PM
The house democrats are lemmings. Also, Pelosi rules with an iron hand and plenty of money. How do we think she keeps getting elected leader of the democrats in the house?

I think we can rule out her good looks as the reason. Or her wit. or her intelligence. Or her charm. Or..........

Personally if this Bill passes and goes into law 2016 would be my last republican vote I will ever cast. I don't care who the hell is on the ticket in the future.

There was very loud voices on repealing Obamacare. Them voices have been silent since the election of Donald Trump.

2010 give us the House to repeal Obamacare. Bingo you got it.

2012 we also need the Senate to repeal Obamacare. Bingo you got it.

2016 we also need the Presidency to repeal Obamacare. Bingo you go it.

Now that we have the House, Senate, and the Presidency....Bingo no repeal just a replace so far. Let see if the Senate keeps their word.

As far as I can tell, Thomas Massey and Andy Biggs are the only two conservatives of the twenty who voted against the HC bill in the House today. The rest are RINOs that thought the bill didn't do enough - someone should look through the list and confirm if I have it right.

http://therightscoop.com/here-are-the-20-republicans-who-voted-against-the-obamacare-reform-bill/

Heard on a TV broadcast in passing that the Senate intends to write their own bill. But have no independent confirmation.

Quote from: topside on May 04, 2017, 06:05:23 PM
As far as I can tell, Thomas Massey and Andy Biggs are the only two conservatives of the twenty who voted against the HC bill in the House today. The rest are RINOs that thought the bill didn't do enough - someone should look through the list and confirm if I have it right.

http://therightscoop.com/here-are-the-20-republicans-who-voted-against-the-obamacare-reform-bill/

Heard on a TV broadcast in passing that the Senate intends to write their own bill. But have no independent confirmation.

The Washington Post released the same information.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/if-house-passes-gop-health-care-bill-a-steeper-climb-awaits-in-the-senate/2017/05/04/26a901da-30bd-11e7-8674-437ddb6e813e_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_healthsenate-930a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.bdf4a5518419

It seems that the RINO's are determined to write their own bill; this can't be good.  What about Rand Paul or Ted Cruz's bill??  This is frustrating, especially when we have 9 Senate seats up for grabs in 2018.   

Also reporting:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331996-gop-senators-to-house-healthcare-bill-must-change

Is this better than Obamacare? Yes. Will costs go down? Maybe. Is this the best we can get? No The best would be the government staying f**k out of it.

Quote from: Ms.Independence on May 04, 2017, 07:40:10 PM
It seems that the RINO's are determined to write their own bill; this can't be good.  What about Rand Paul or Ted Cruz's bill??  This is frustrating, especially when we have 9 Senate seats up for grabs in 2018.   

And if the bill fails and tax cuts never occur then the dems have the senate and house in 2018.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on May 04, 2017, 08:43:46 PM
Is this better than Obamacare? Yes. Will costs go down? Maybe. Is this the best we can get? No The best would be the government staying f**k out of it.

You have nailed it Boo. Is it what we would have liked in total? No. We must keep in mind Obamacare was designed as a massive bureaucratic scam. They purposely constructed it to be difficult to undo and were successful in that effort. Being an optimist, here is my take on what was done yesterday. It is my understanding the mandates and taxes of Obamacare are eliminated. That in and of itself is good. We can only hope the marketplace opens up and businesses can expand and offer group coverage to employees. That being said, knowing the leftists in the senate the good parts of the bill probably be stripped from it.

Charles Krauthammer says we'll have single-payer within the next few years.

QuoteOn Fox News Thursday night, Tucker Carlson asked Krauthammer if he believes guaranteed coverage for preexisting conditions is now "sacrosanct."

"Absolutely sacrosanct," Krauthammer said. "I think what conservatives and Republicans are beginning to understand is how the fundamental view of healthcare among the American people has changed."

While the pundit believes Obamacare is performing poorly and was a political disaster for Democrats, he argues that it had one major victory.

"Over these past seven years people's expectations have changed," he said. "The grounds [for healthcare debate] are all liberal grounds...It's showing that the country is at a point where I think it believes in universal coverage."

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/04/krauthammer-conservatives-are-losing-on-healthcare-video/

In other words, the bastards wore us down.

Quote from: quiller on May 05, 2017, 05:41:23 AM
Charles Krauthammer says we'll have single-payer within the next few years.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/04/krauthammer-conservatives-are-losing-on-healthcare-video/

In other words, the bastards wore us down.

I don't know that the democrats wore us down as much as they convinced our citizens that healthcare is an entitlement. That is part of the leftist ideology. Too many of our citizens are convinced that government is the solution to all concerns.

Quote from: ldub23 on May 05, 2017, 04:18:43 AM
And if the bill fails and tax cuts never occur then the dems have the senate and house in 2018.

More wishful thinking?

The root cause of the HC dilemma is that "we the people" now think that entitlements are good and congress has no spine to do what is principled.

There are too many that think loosing an entitlement cripples them ... when it's the entitlement that is the crippling agent.

And Congress doesn't act objectively on the facts that the insurance business is driven by risks ... pre-existing conditions, promiscuous lifestyle, and other bad choices (e.g., smoking for 10 years or killing your liver in alcohol) leads to greater costs. Costs will never come down until the fact behind the risks are approach objectively. Put these groups in their own pool; and if they can't afford the coverage, it's game over. Yeah - that's hard. But pretending otherwise gets us to where we are now.

Then we have the hemorrhaging drug issue ... "we need more Medicade to treat the drug problem". Another bad choice that you make the healthy pay for. I say three strikes and you're out: 1) treatment the first time, 2) scared straight by viewing what's to come in the drug Hospice camps if you fall again, 3) you get a membership to a drug Hospice camp - live in your lifestyle of choice and wait for you to die. We've got to face fact that HC does not balance when we cover the consequences of peoples bad decisions.

If we man-up to not covering the bad lifestyle choice areas, we probably could pool together and cover the typical conditions that became pre-existing when BO care ended up kicking so many off their previous policies, e.g., typical heart issues, lung issues (non-smokers), etc.

I've come around to MsIndie's position. I'm new to the political environment (a couple years paying attention) and, in general, now believe it is hopeless to try and account for steps that move in the right direct ... rather, take your stand and be willing to die on that hill. Just vote straight up repeal - vote to move insurance back to the free market. Screw the political environment. It has almost no chance of passing with full repeal but let the socialist public and Congress live in the latrine they seem to like. Unfortunately, the Conservatives end up living in the same cesspool with them - I see this going no other way.

At this point, I'm praying for good health and trying to live the life I have left free of the burden of paying the high govt. insurance rates with high deductibles. I've chosen to be in a Health Share program - lower costs, lower "deductable", no official policy, the members share each others costs, administered by a Christian organization that has been faithful to do right by it's members for many years (so far), and does not accept pre-existing conditions. I actually have a pre-existing condition that won't necessarily be shared among the members if it goes wrong ... it will be game over in that case. But I choose to live free of paying for most of the bad lifestyle choices of others and away from the atrocity named BO Care or similar RINO plan. I'm guessing that the govt. will eventually try to take that choice away too ... just watch.