Author Topic: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.  (Read 2033 times)

Offline ldub23

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I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« on: May 04, 2017, 04:36:40 AM »
From what  i understand the mandates are gone along with most  of the taxes. Plenty to gripe about with it  but i hope it  passes today.

Offline quiller

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 05:32:42 AM »
From what  i understand the mandates are gone along with most  of the taxes. Plenty to gripe about with it  but i hope it  passes today.

Surrender now and avoid the rush, is that it? Why not hold out for better?

Offline ldub23

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2017, 06:00:36 AM »
Surrender now and avoid the rush, is that it? Why not hold out for better?

Better when? When dems take over  in 2018 if reps do nothing now?

Offline Solar

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 06:19:57 AM »
Better when? When dems take over  in 2018 if reps do nothing now?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're too funny! I asked you to provide evidence of your claims and you run away, and here you are, at it again, claiming the Dim party is still viable?
Even Fuglosi admits they are dead and out of power with infighting at the leadership level, yet you hold out hope for a miracle? :rolleyes:

Oh, and why do we even need a govt run HC plan? When since our existence the free mkt has done just fine, providing the best HC available anywhere in the free world.
#WWG1WGA

Offline quiller

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2017, 06:44:43 AM »
You're entitled to THINK it's the best we will get, but capitulation this soon into a four-year crusade only means you lack the stomach for the fight.

Online walkstall

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2017, 08:04:51 AM »
Better when? When dems take over  in 2018 if reps do nothing now?

A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.  I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.  ~ Ronald Reagan ~

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Offline topside

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2017, 08:48:57 AM »
Walks ... not sure of your point, but that last post was disturbing.  :smile:

I think the energy put into a conflict in this thread misplaced. A repeal would be consistent with the promises in the campaign and more aligned with the Conservative / Republic values. But the reality of politics is that it's a chess game. Trump needs to capture a few pieces so more will believe he's got game.

Repeal was voted on 54 times by the House during the BO administration but never made it to the Senate floor. They were just waving the flag at that point - no hope the Dims would let it happen. http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/

I'm almost certain that a full repeal would not pass in the current environment today. Even the current repeal / replace bill is just getting through the House. Many are very pessimistic it will make it through the Senate.  http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal

The current problem is that some Pubs (RINOs) don't support a full repeal while others can't get behind a replace - so the Pubs could carry the day but the whole constitutional checks and balances concept is getting in our way. 

A second fail will bang Trump's credibility up even more ... especially after the Dims and LSM put an exclamation point after the fail. 

I hate the idea, but think it better if the current bill passes and is re-addressed for repeal in a couple years. We definitely need more conservatives on-board in congress to get a confident win on repeal. I'd like to score a touchdown but need to settle for a first down at this point.


Offline Ms.Independence

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2017, 09:03:14 AM »
Walks ... not sure of your point, but that last post was disturbing.  :smile:

I think the energy put into a conflict in this thread misplaced. A repeal would be consistent with the promises in the campaign and more aligned with the Conservative / Republic values. But the reality of politics is that it's a chess game. Trump needs to capture a few pieces so more will believe he's got game.

Repeal was voted on 54 times by the House during the BO administration but never made it to the Senate floor. They were just waving the flag at that point - no hope the Dims would let it happen. http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/

I'm almost certain that a full repeal would not pass in the current environment today. Even the current repeal / replace bill is just getting through the House. Many are very pessimistic it will make it through the Senate.  http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal

The current problem is that some Pubs (RINOs) don't support a full repeal while others can't get behind a replace - so the Pubs could carry the day but the whole constitutional checks and balances concept is getting in our way. 

A second fail will bang Trump's credibility up even more ... especially after the Dims and LSM put an exclamation point after the fail. 

I hate the idea, but think it better if the current bill passes and is re-addressed for repeal in a couple years. We definitely need more conservatives on-board in congress to get a confident win on repeal. I'd like to score a touchdown but need to settle for a first down at this point.

Re-addressed for repeal a couple of years later??  You yourself just stated that a repeal was voted on 54 times and failed!  So to pass a bill now in hopes to repeal later is counter productive and quite honestly to me, absurd.  Yes the media is having a frenzy right now and the GOP is in a hurry to get something passed.  In reality they should be ignoring the media and pushing for full REPEAL.  Keep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed.  Also, keep in mind that just about everyone up for re-election in '18 campaigned on the promise of REPEAL.  If they don't deliver they jeopardize their seats and further jeopardize a chance of successfully repealing parts of the new bill in the future.
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Offline topside

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2017, 09:26:22 AM »
Re-addressed for repeal a couple of years later??  You yourself just stated that a repeal was voted on 54 times and failed!  So to pass a bill now in hopes to repeal later is counter productive and quite honestly to me, absurd.  Yes the media is having a frenzy right now and the GOP is in a hurry to get something passed.  In reality they should be ignoring the media and pushing for full REPEAL.  Keep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed.  Also, keep in mind that just about everyone up for re-election in '18 campaigned on the promise of REPEAL.  If they don't deliver they jeopardize their seats and further jeopardize a chance of successfully repealing parts of the new bill in the future.

It's not the media that's the problem this time ... it's the Pubs.

Ok - so let's go with your preference. Vote on repeal this week ... and the data says it will fail. Then wait two years and hope that the voting public will recognize the error of their ways and put more Conservatives in. Then we vote again in two-plus years and get the repeal. That's a wet dream and you know it.

What would more likely happen is that it would be voted out and BO care would remain. It would fail and the government would have to do something. Given no other positives (that's also another big assumption), the voter base does remember that their health care went to crap and Trump was driving - couldn't get'r done. So the issues assists the Dims getting back in office.

If you think I'm wrong, spell out a more plausible outcome over the next five years. I feel like you are pretending that a repeal will happen just because you want it to. I would like to believe you but the facts I'm seeing don't support your position.

Also, you mentioned:

Quote
Keep in mind that there is a healthcare bill out there which passed both the House and Senate that Bammy vetoed.

I wonder how that version compared with the current version that's being constructed? Any links that explained that bill? Please don't yell at me for not doing my homework ... just asking for a courtesy jumping off point if you have one.



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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2017, 09:47:17 AM »
Walks ... not sure of your point, but that last post was disturbing. :smile:

I think the energy put into a conflict in this thread misplaced. A repeal would be consistent with the promises in the campaign and more aligned with the Conservative / Republic values. But the reality of politics is that it's a chess game. Trump needs to capture a few pieces so more will believe he's got game.

Repeal was voted on 54 times by the House during the BO administration but never made it to the Senate floor. They were just waving the flag at that point - no hope the Dims would let it happen. http://time.com/4712725/ahca-house-repeal-votes-obamacare/

I'm almost certain that a full repeal would not pass in the current environment today. Even the current repeal / replace bill is just getting through the House. Many are very pessimistic it will make it through the Senate.  http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/331842-in-senate-pessimism-over-obamacare-repeal

The current problem is that some Pubs (RINOs) don't support a full repeal while others can't get behind a replace - so the Pubs could carry the day but the whole constitutional checks and balances concept is getting in our way. 

A second fail will bang Trump's credibility up even more ... especially after the Dims and LSM put an exclamation point after the fail. 

I hate the idea, but think it better if the current bill passes and is re-addressed for repeal in a couple years. We definitely need more conservatives on-board in congress to get a confident win on repeal. I'd like to score a touchdown but need to settle for a first down at this point.


It's just me.  From the first few post I have seen ldub23 more as a Shill.  With his doom and gloom, this is the best we are going to get so let run with it.   :rolleyes:   The old bait and switch. 

You may see this as a first down, I see it a one more touchdown for the lib's and RINO's.  Get the government out of H/C, everything about my health is now on computers.     Those computers files have been compromised so I have been told by a letter that came in the mail.   The government's b o care was going to save me 2.500$ a year.   :rolleyes:    Government's b o care now cost me over 6.000$ more a year.   

We are the Government Congress and we are here to help.   :rolleyes:
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Offline Ms.Independence

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2017, 09:55:40 AM »
It's not the media that's the problem this time ... it's the Pubs.

Ok - so let's go with your preference. Vote on repeal this week ... and the data says it will fail. Then wait two years and hope that the voting public will recognize the error of their ways and put more Conservatives in. Then we vote again in two-plus years and get the repeal. That's a wet dream and you know it.



To arbitrarily not take a vote, because they don't think they have the votes is part of the problem. I say take the vote on repeal and IF it does indeed fail, those who voted against repeal will be known and can be held accountable at the voting booth. Why should RINO's be given an out? The public has the right to know who is voting with the voice of the people and who is voting against their voice. 

IF it does fail at that point the public knows that repeal failed.  Those that voted for it will save their seats in 2018.  If it does fail now, then you vote on the current proposed legislation that modifies it. Telling the public that they need to wait another 2 years for a vote on repeal is absurd.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:02:05 AM by Ms.Independence »
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Online walkstall

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2017, 10:29:02 AM »
Well some of it!!   :ohmy:

Here’s What You Need to Know About the Health Care Bill

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/here-s-what-you-need-know-about-health-care-bill-n754611
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Offline quiller

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Offline topside

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2017, 12:18:54 PM »
So the House vote is in ... summary below ... sorry about the spacing in the copy / paste, but you'll figure it out.

Majority needed to pass    Yes    No    Not voting
Republicans    217    20    1
Democrats    0    193    0
Total    217    213    1

This RINO bill only passed the house by only two votes - they rallied only one excess vote. There were 20 Pubs that voted against ... I haven't been able to determine whether the Pub No's were from the FC or not or RINOs that thought the bill was too far right.

But what still amazes me is that the Dems hold their votes together. I would expect some to want to move away from the far Leftists. But no sign of movement yet. It kinda makes the point that, while we'd like a full repeal and to get govt. out, even this RINO bill is struggling with the actors involved at this point.

I personally doubt this will make it through the Senate.

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: I think the new Health plan is the best we will get.
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »
So the House vote is in ... summary below ... sorry about the spacing in the copy / paste, but you'll figure it out.

Majority needed to pass    Yes    No    Not voting
Republicans    217    20    1
Democrats    0    193    0
Total    217    213    1

This RINO bill only passed the house by only two votes - they rallied only one excess vote. There were 20 Pubs that voted against ... I haven't been able to determine whether the Pub No's were from the FC or not or RINOs that thought the bill was too far right.

But what still amazes me is that the Dems hold their votes together. I would expect some to want to move away from the far Leftists. But no sign of movement yet. It kinda makes the point that, while we'd like a full repeal and to get govt. out, even this RINO bill is struggling with the actors involved at this point.

I personally doubt this will make it through the Senate.

The house democrats are lemmings. Also, Pelosi rules with an iron hand and plenty of money. How do we think she keeps getting elected leader of the democrats in the house?
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