QuoteAs far as aborton goes, if there are people that want them and a buck to be made, somebody, somewhere, will be performing them.

The problem with Libs and anarchist libertarians comes from the fact that they don't see the baby as fully HUMAN until (hopefully) it is born.

You would never use that argument to justify murdering a spouse, business partner, the annoying kid down the street etc.

"If there are people that want them and a buck to be made, somebody, somewhere, will offer his services as a hit man performing them."

Quote from: kramarat on November 17, 2012, 07:34:03 AM
Ever heard the Neil Young song, "The Damage Done"?

My ex-wife died 6 years ago after 20 years of smoking crack. She was 44.

My step daughter and daughter were devastated. Both of them were in their 20's and hadn't used drugs besides smoking a little weed. After she died, they both turned to heroin. Both became addicted. Each of them had 4 kids. All 8 of the kids have been removed and placed in foster care with strangers. My daughter is facing serious prison time for felony child endangerment. Her last child was born an addict.

I don't see hard drug use as a victimless crime. On the other hand, I don't think that people should be marked for life with a criminal record, for simple possession. It locks them into a place that is almost impossible to get out of.

As far as abortion goes, if there are people that want them and a buck to be made, somebody, somewhere, will be performing them.

One more thing.........

The crack smoking caused respiratory problems, which made her eligible for full disability, which she got. The government was sending her $1500 a month to feed her habit, which led to more health problems.

She also got either medicare or medicaid for free. Over the course of her glamorous life, she probably racked up about $2.5 million in medical bills, which the taxpayers covered.

It's looking like my daughter may also get full disability for PTSD and depression.....................and the cycle continues.

My opinions on these things are based on real life, not theoretical possibilities.

Quote from: kramarat on November 17, 2012, 07:34:03 AM
Ever heard the Neil Young song, "The Damage Done"?

My ex-wife died 6 years ago after 20 years of smoking crack. She was 44.

My step daughter and daughter were devastated. Both of them were in their 20's and hadn't used drugs besides smoking a little weed. After she died, they both turned to heroin. Both became addicted. Each of them had 4 kids. All 8 of the kids have been removed and placed in foster care with strangers. My daughter is facing serious prison time for felony child endangerment. Her last child was born an addict.

I don't see hard drug use as a victimless crime. On the other hand, I don't think that people should be marked for life with a criminal record, for simple possession. It locks them into a place that is almost impossible to get out of.

As far as aborton goes, if there are people that want them and a buck to be made, somebody, somewhere, will be performing them.

I'll be blunt. I don't my door kicked down in the middle of the night by the police. I don't want some hick town to confiscate all the money I have in my pocket. I don't want billions and billions spent on a never ending war, simply because some ADULTS make some bad choices.

Quote from: mdgiles on November 17, 2012, 08:30:23 AM
I'll be blunt. I don't my door kicked down in the middle of the night by the police. I don't want some hick town to confiscate all the money I have in my pocket. I don't want billions and billions spent on a never ending war, simply because some ADULTS make some bad choices.

Did you get the impression that I want those things?

Quote from: mdgiles on November 17, 2012, 07:22:23 AM
It's not a generalization, it's simply a fact. And that most aren't aware where the rule came from was my point. That the thinking behind it has become internalized in American culture. That it informs our decisions on who is "black" and who is "white" without our even consciously thinking about it. This goes back to something I said in my first post. We don't think it's odd that someone with seven white great-grandparents and one black great-grandparents ( the late, great Lena Horne for example), is considered "black". We simply accept it - without really understanding why we see it as "normal".

I'm calling bullshit on this one.

You'll have to prove to me: 1) "The U.S. works on the 'One Drop Rule' - that would be the ENTIRE EFFING U.S.of A (that is where the sweeping generalization comes in) and 2) "That has become so internalized within the national culture, that most of us don't think of how odd it is to describe someone with seven white great-grandparents and one black great-grandparent as "black".

Case in point, my wife's father was 1/8th Navajo (that makes her 1/16th Navajo - that is far more than one drop in case you are wondering) no one I have ever met looks at her and calls her either Native American or India.

Face it, my friend, you need there to be racism because without it, you're not "special".

QuoteI don't want some hick town

What's a "hick town"?  Sounds like a racist generalization to me.

Quote from: Yawn on November 17, 2012, 08:16:18 PM
What's a "hick town"?  Sounds like a racist generalization to me.

Good catch. What color are the people in "Hick Town"?

How many teeth do they have?

Quote from: Yawn on November 17, 2012, 08:22:09 AM
The problem with Libs and anarchist libertarians comes from the fact that they don't see the baby as fully HUMAN until (hopefully) it is born.

You would never use that argument to justify murdering a spouse, business partner, the annoying kid down the street etc.

"If there are people that want them and a buck to be made, somebody, somewhere, will offer his services as a hit man performing them."

The Nazis used that exact argument to euthanize the disabled, and to murder "sub-humans".

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 17, 2012, 01:10:12 PM
I'm calling bullshit on this one.

You'll have to prove to me: 1) "The U.S. works on the 'One Drop Rule' - that would be the ENTIRE EFFING U.S.of A (that is where the sweeping generalization comes in) and 2) "That has become so internalized within the national culture, that most of us don't think of how odd it is to describe someone with seven white great-grandparents and one black great-grandparent as "black".

Case in point, my wife's father was 1/8th Navajo (that makes her 1/16th Navajo - that is far more than one drop in case you are wondering) no one I have ever met looks at her and calls her either Native American or India.

Face it, my friend, you need there to be racism because without it, you're not "special".

Call bullshit if you must, but before you do engage in a little research.
http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/race-and-the-one-drop-rule-in-the-post-reconstruction-south/
http://blackhistory.com/content/63228/one-drop-rule
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4540881?uid=3739832&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101390668941
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/12/%E2%80%98one-drop-rule%E2%80%99-persists/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
You shouldn't start denying history simply because you find the facts "uncomfortable". I'm not accusing anyone of being "racist". I'm simply saying that some old habits of thought have seeped deep into American culture, so deeply that they are accepted at an unconscious level. Ask yourself the question: "What makes a black man, "black"? 

Quote from: Yawn on November 17, 2012, 08:16:18 PM
What's a "hick town"?  Sounds like a racist generalization to me.

And you're assuming that all the inhabitants of a "Hick" town are of a single ethnic group because?
As opposed to the term being descriptive of a small country town?

Quote from: Yawn on November 17, 2012, 08:22:09 AM
The problem with Libs and anarchist libertarians comes from the fact that they don't see the baby as fully HUMAN until (hopefully) it is born.

You would never use that argument to justify murdering a spouse, business partner, the annoying kid down the street etc.

"If there are people that want them and a buck to be made, somebody, somewhere, will offer his services as a hit man performing them."

My statement wasn't intended to paint abortion as good or bad. I personally hate it. It's just a fact that they will be performed.

Now that Obama has been reelected for another four years, I think that attempting to hold a position that depends on the overturning of Roe V Wade, is completely unrealistic. It just ain't gonna happen.

If Obama is able to appoint 1 or 2 supreme court justices during his second term, I'll be dead before the subject of abortion even comes up for discussion again. It's just reality. It doesn't mean I like it.

Quote from: mdgiles on November 18, 2012, 06:33:35 AM
Call bullshit if you must, but before you do engage in a little research.
http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/race-and-the-one-drop-rule-in-the-post-reconstruction-south/
http://blackhistory.com/content/63228/one-drop-rule
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4540881?uid=3739832&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101390668941
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/12/%E2%80%98one-drop-rule%E2%80%99-persists/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
You shouldn't start denying history simply because you find the facts "uncomfortable". I'm not accusing anyone of being "racist". I'm simply saying that some old habits of thought have seeped deep into American culture, so deeply that they are accepted at an unconscious level. Ask yourself the question: "What makes a black man, "black"?

You should learn to respond to what I am saying, and not what you think I'm saying. I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about America in 2012.

You need to prove to me (as I stated before) that the overwhelming majority of (white) Americans know what the "One Drop Rule" is AND that they either consciously or unconsciously allow it to influence their relations with blacks. 

That is the generalization you made, and I'm asking you to back it up.

You're right. THAT is something blacks attribute to whites.  Like I said, it's something about liberal whites who make the CHOICE to align themselves with a race that isn't apparent just by looking at them.  Society doesn't make that choice for them. They tell us they're....

I've never heard the term one drop rule and I grew up in a predominantly black area.

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 18, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
You should learn to respond to what I am saying, and not what you think I'm saying. I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about America in 2012.

You need to prove to me (as I stated before) that the overwhelming majority of (white) Americans know what the "One Drop Rule" is AND that they either consciously or unconsciously allow it to influence their relations with blacks. 

That is the generalization you made, and I'm asking you to back it up.

Which part of UNCONSCIOUSLY ACCEPTED are you having trouble with. As I said, and more than a few of my sources point out, the idea of who, and who is not black, has it's basis in some very old mores. And you don't have to think about them consciously every day, to still act based on them. It's why we don't run into cognitive dissonance when someone describes Rick Fox and Yaphet Kotto as "black men".