Here are some conservative positions.  Do you agree?  Disagree?  If you want me to lose my job, all my money, Be totally humiliated in front of my co-workers, friends and family, go to jail and be beaten daily for these statements, why are you even here?  To a true conservative, these shouldn't even be controversial:

1. Government is usually the cause of society's problems, not the solution. Conservatism starts with this concept.

2. The borders of a country, any country, must be respected and protected.  I can't sneak into Mexico, Canada or any other country and expect to get free money.

3. The US Military should be used to defend American soil.  For example, the border with Mexico.  Mexico's government is ineffective against the drug cartels and illegal aliens.  American law enforcement has proven to be ineffective as well.  I'd worry about other borders but the Canadians are pussies incapable of mounting a threat.  Hell, the Philippines made them back down over the issue of garbage.  Look South for the problems that plague us...

4. They say America should be like Australia and get rid of its guns.  Okay, but if America is going to be like Australia, maybe we should adopt their no-tolerance policy for illegal aliens.  They move illegal aliens to detention centers on island far from their shores.  That's why so few try in the first place.  You don't get in unless you have something meaningful to offer.  They rejected me. Twice...

5. I don't own a gun because I'm scared of other citizens. I own a gun because I'm afraid of what the government might do if I didn't.

6. Illegal drugs represent a grave threat to the American way of life.  They represent a threat to any country's way of life.  The Clinton administration had it right - zero tolerance, mandatory sentences. The Crime Bill of 1994 didn't go far enough.  Why in the hell do we allow rogue states like Colorado to coddle dope-fiends?

7. Trade policy should be fair and equitable between countries.  If a country has high tariffs to American goods, it is necessary to establish reciprocal tariffs.  I know cheap crap at Walmart is great, but I would rather pay a little more and employ Americans.

8. Freedom of the Press is an important right, a fundamental right, and therefore comes with great responsibility to be objective, fair and honest.  You can have opinions, but quit lying to make your point.  You cloak yourself in the 1st Amendment, preach the virtues of Socialism, yet Capitalism forms the basis of your business.  Must be nice to be a hypocrite.

9. The purpose of taxes is to raise revenue to operate the government, not to punish the successful.  Quit telling me how the rich should 'pay their fair share'.  Please describe what is fair.  40%, 50%, 60%, 90%, what?  Do I need to go into debt to pay money so the government can re-distribute it?  Oh wait, that's what's happening now...

10. A responsible government will not spend more than it receives.  I don't get to borrow money and make my grand-children pay it back.  When was the last time we shut down a government program?  Do we really need the Small Business Administration, Rural Housing Development Service, Rural Electrification Administration,  U.S. Geological Survey or the Corporation for Public Broadcasting?  NPR is liberal radio that wouldn't exist if it had to vie for advertising revenue.  I get the sense that the purpose of government is not to solve real problems, but to create jobs for people they like.

11. There are demographic groups that have been in America for centuries that deserve the attention of government before any illegal aliens.  When we run out of poor people in America, I know where to get more.

12. You don't have to love America to live here, but if you hate it so much, why do you stay?

Okay, light me up...

 
Can of Worms, Meet Ground. j/k

Boy, there's a lot to chew on, and I doubt anyone would disagree, instead, they'll probably just add to the list.
Our Founders had it Right on Govt, "Keep it Simple", but the greed of man found a way to raid the treasure of the American Taxpayer.
Our predecessors are to blame, not us, we grew up in a world where the govt steals your hard earned income, then claims you get it back when you're old, but in the interim gives it out as candy to illegals crossing the border.
That so called "Greatest Generation" in truth, are the cause of much of what plagues us, they grew Govt exponentially and by the time we were born, we found ourselves subjects, not citizens.

Quote from: Solar on May 11, 2019, 07:13:24 AM

Can of Worms, Meet Ground. j/k

Boy, there's a lot to chew on, and I doubt anyone would disagree, instead, they'll probably just add to the list.
Our Founders had it Right on Govt, "Keep it Simple", but the greed of man found a way to raid the treasure of the American Taxpayer.
Our predecessors are to blame, not us, we grew up in a world where the govt steals your hard earned income, then claims you get it back when you're old, but in the interim gives it out as candy to illegals crossing the border.
That so called "Greatest Generation" in truth, are the cause of much of what plagues us, they grew Govt exponentially and by the time we were born, we found ourselves subjects, not citizens.

Every child who is born in America is now born owing $43,186.  This was in 2010.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
Here are some conservative positions.  Do you agree?  Disagree?  If you want me to lose my job, all my money, Be totally humiliated in front of my co-workers, friends and family, go to jail and be beaten daily for these statements, why are you even here?  To a true conservative, these shouldn't even be controversial:

1. Government is usually the cause of society's problems, not the solution. Conservatism starts with this concept.

Government is always the problem in regards to interfering with society.

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2. The borders of a country, any country, must be respected and protected.  I can't sneak into Mexico, Canada or any other country and expect to get free money.

The respected part isn't relevant to my way of thinking.  The ant doesn't need to respect the boot, but the outcome is inevitable.  I would like a little more fear introduced into border enforcement, but that's just the hardliner in me.  I remember when I was little and we took a tour near the German border.  I remember the soldiers with guns and my dad telling me if we got too close they'd shoot us.  I was so fascinated by that, and my fear for someone ever trying that was ingrained in my little brain from then on.  I'd like Mexico to have that same fear.

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3. The US Military should be used to defend American soil.  For example, the border with Mexico.  Mexico's government is ineffective against the drug cartels and illegal aliens.  American law enforcement has proven to be ineffective as well.  I'd worry about other borders but the Canadians are pussies incapable of mounting a threat.  Hell, the Philippines made them back down over the issue of garbage.  Look South for the problems that plague us...

It makes no sense to me why we can't fire upon invaders.  It seriously boggles my mind.

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4. They say America should be like Australia and get rid of its guns.  Okay, but if America is going to be like Australia, maybe we should adopt their no-tolerance policy for illegal aliens.  They move illegal aliens to detention centers on island far from their shores.  That's why so few try in the first place.  You don't get in unless you have something meaningful to offer.  They rejected me. Twice...

Getting rid of our guns is not an option, illegal invasion or no illegal invasion.  I believe gun ownership is not only a right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, it's a duty of American citizens, and firearms training should be part of curriculum in our schools.

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5. I don't own a gun because I'm scared of other citizens. I own a gun because I'm afraid of what the government might do if I didn't.

From #4, in the end yes, and defense of an invading force, but they're also fun.  I like going to a range and it's very therapeutic.  Gun ownership isn't about fear, but also it's a life-skill that needs to be practiced, and it gives many peace of mind.  A 5'2" 98lbs girl in some Dem city isn't worried about the government rounding up citizens. She's worried about the career-criminal likely released from the system by some liberal judge.  A weapon gives her peace of mind and confidence that she can protect herself.

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6. Illegal drugs represent a grave threat to the American way of life.  They represent a threat to any country's way of life.  The Clinton administration had it right - zero tolerance, mandatory sentences. The Crime Bill of 1994 didn't go far enough.  Why in the hell do we allow rogue states like Colorado to coddle dope-fiends?

I'm very libertarian on this subject, but I'm very conservative in regards to children.  Regarding drug use by addicts, I encourage it.  The more idiots who can take themselves out of the gene pool the better.  However, if you involve children with drugs, or you're a druggie who gets pregnant, I think that's grounds for the death penalty, but that's just me.  I can't respect one's life, liberty, or property if they have no respect of others'.

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7. Trade policy should be fair and equitable between countries.  If a country has high tariffs to American goods, it is necessary to establish reciprocal tariffs.  I know cheap crap at Walmart is great, but I would rather pay a little more and employ Americans.

This is complicated only because of the geopolitics, history, etc.  China, for example, can crank out a product like steel and dump it in the US and flood out market.  The cost of the steel is one issue, but the other is it destroys our steel manufacturing industry because of the cheap supply, which means job loss, which means a ripple effect through our economy.  The "conservatives" who attempt to point at Trump and cry about tariffs are fucking morons who think we'll ever have something like a steel industry with "fair trade" with China who can crank it out and produce it all day long without a care in the world for labor, cost, etc.  Tariffs are more of punishment and tool, and as Trump has repeated many times, ignored by the fucking economic illiterates, he want's zero tariffs for everyone.  Pundits and leaders of other countries instantly go quiet when he says that.  As Wilbur Ross once asked on a panel (I can't remember which one) "name a country less protectionist than the United States?" -- every panel member jockeying to speak instantly went quiet.

From a pure economics perspective, and an ideal world where other countries have actual economic systems and not communist and manipulated systems like China, for whom the bounds of economics have not been relevant, thanks to previous presidents,  yes, zero tariffs and free trade are ideal.  However, to combat, control, and steer us to a more free-trade global marketplace where supply and demand actually has relevance, tariffs are an important tool for those who understand how to properly use it.  We can even take a hit on trade, but that would be structured in a trade agreement that can be absolutely enforced (one of the reasons the China talks have fallen apart).

In the Wal-Mart example, that's not an example of capitalism.  Wal-Mart has been able to massively expand, thanks to mechanisms like eminent domain (their tool of choice), enabled by CORRUPT GOVERNMENT POLITICIANS.  If there was no corruption in local governments, there would be no Wal-Mart -- at least of its current size, and there'd be more mom-and-pops competing against them.

To the original point, it may or may not be "necessary" to have reciprocal tariffs. It would be dependent on the trade deal and other factors, hopefully in the hands of an America-first president.  We may be willing to eat higher tariffs for some goods to open up markets for some of ours, etc....

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8. Freedom of the Press is an important right, a fundamental right, and therefore comes with great responsibility to be objective, fair and honest.  You can have opinions, but quit lying to make your point.  You cloak yourself in the 1st Amendment, preach the virtues of Socialism, yet Capitalism forms the basis of your business.  Must be nice to be a hypocrite.

The founders never intended for enemies to use the Constitution against us.

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9. The purpose of taxes is to raise revenue to operate the government, not to punish the successful.  Quit telling me how the rich should 'pay their fair share'.  Please describe what is fair.  40%, 50%, 60%, 90%, what?  Do I need to go into debt to pay money so the government can re-distribute it?  Oh wait, that's what's happening now...

Eliminate income taxes and repeal the Sixteenth Amendment.

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10. A responsible government will not spend more than it receives.  I don't get to borrow money and make my grand-children pay it back.  When was the last time we shut down a government program?  Do we really need the Small Business Administration, Rural Housing Development Service, Rural Electrification Administration,  U.S. Geological Survey or the Corporation for Public Broadcasting?  NPR is liberal radio that wouldn't exist if it had to vie for advertising revenue.  I get the sense that the purpose of government is not to solve real problems, but to create jobs for people they like.

President Trump is way ahead of you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRr-drtPhlA

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11. There are demographic groups that have been in America for centuries that deserve the attention of government before any illegal aliens.  When we run out of poor people in America, I know where to get more.

No. We have citizens and non-citizens.  Non citizens -- unless they're here spending money and visiting, or are highly skilled contributing to some American company on a visa, they have no relevance or say in our country.  Poor American citizens have the freedom to be poor, and that's no concern of mine as to how they chose their life paths.  It is a concern of mine when they litter streets with poop and needles, or commit crimes.  Beyond that, they don't need government attention, unless they're breaking the law.

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12. You don't have to love America to live here, but if you hate it so much, why do you stay?

I'd have a pretty rigorous tracking system, oath, language requirement, etc.,  but that's just me.

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Okay, light me up...

For what?

I agree with all points for the most part, except #6. The very idea of illegal drugs goes against conservative belief. Tax dollars used to hunt these people and imprison these people should be used to rehab the willing. The rest will sink or swim. The current laws are only ruining the lives of people who can not pay there way out, and enabling illegal drug runners.

Quote from: Socialism Slayer on May 11, 2019, 06:19:24 PM
I agree with all points for the most part, except #6. The very idea of illegal drugs goes against conservative belief. Tax dollars used to hunt these people and imprison these people should be used to rehab the willing. The rest will sink or swim. The current laws are only ruining the lives of people who can not pay there way out, and enabling illegal drug runners.

Why would you force me to subsidize their rehab?

Quote from: Socialism Slayer on May 11, 2019, 06:19:24 PM
I agree with all points for the most part, except #6. The very idea of illegal drugs goes against conservative belief. Tax dollars used to hunt these people and imprison these people should be used to rehab the willing. The rest will sink or swim. The current laws are only ruining the lives of people who can not pay there way out, and enabling illegal drug runners.

I would go after the dealers and the distribution with extreme prejudice. Supply will dry up and things will sort themselves out.

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on May 11, 2019, 07:32:10 PM
I would go after the dealers and the distribution with extreme prejudice. Supply will dry up and things will sort themselves out.

If the user rats out the dealer, whatever drugs the police recover goes to the snitch. but he has to go to prison and do all the drugs there all by himself.
Dealer hangs, druggie overdoses. Problem solved.

Remember when Mitt Romney said he was a "severe conservative"? That was a fun time.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
Here are some conservative positions.  Do you agree?  Disagree?  If you want me to lose my job, all my money, Be totally humiliated in front of my co-workers, friends and family, go to jail and be beaten daily for these statements, why are you even here?  To a true conservative, these shouldn't even be controversial:

I find issues with some of these positions.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
1. Government is usually the cause of society's problems, not the solution. Conservatism starts with this concept.

Yet, those who say gov't is the cause of society's problems wants to use this very apparatus to do things like homeland security, etc.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
2. The borders of a country, any country, must be respected and protected.  I can't sneak into Mexico, Canada or any other country and expect to get free money.

If gov't is the cause of the issues and sucks in general then how would it be effective in border security?

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
3. The US Military should be used to defend American soil.  For example, the border with Mexico.  Mexico's government is ineffective against the drug cartels and illegal aliens.  American law enforcement has proven to be ineffective as well.  I'd worry about other borders but the Canadians are pussies incapable of mounting a threat.  Hell, the Philippines made them back down over the issue of garbage.  Look South for the problems that plague us...

see my response to #2.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
4. They say America should be like Australia and get rid of its guns.  Okay, but if America is going to be like Australia, maybe we should adopt their no-tolerance policy for illegal aliens.  They move illegal aliens to detention centers on island far from their shores.  That's why so few try in the first place.  You don't get in unless you have something meaningful to offer.  They rejected me. Twice...

meaningful?  As in...

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM

5. I don't own a gun because I'm scared of other citizens. I own a gun because I'm afraid of what the government might do if I didn't.

How would you with a gun take on the gov't?

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
6. Illegal drugs represent a grave threat to the American way of life.  They represent a threat to any country's way of life.  The Clinton administration had it right - zero tolerance, mandatory sentences. The Crime Bill of 1994 didn't go far enough.  Why in the hell do we allow rogue states like Colorado to coddle dope-fiends?

I take a more libertarian stance.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
7. Trade policy should be fair and equitable between countries.  If a country has high tariffs to American goods, it is necessary to establish reciprocal tariffs.  I know cheap crap at Walmart is great, but I would rather pay a little more and employ Americans.

What is fair?

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
8. Freedom of the Press is an important right, a fundamental right, and therefore comes with great responsibility to be objective, fair and honest.  You can have opinions, but quit lying to make your point.  You cloak yourself in the 1st Amendment, preach the virtues of Socialism, yet Capitalism forms the basis of your business.  Must be nice to be a hypocrite.

Again, what is fair?  What is the criteria for fairness? 

And, as for honesty and dishonesty well here is my question.   What if one believes one is telling the truth and believes he has all of the facts.  Lying means that one intentionally states something that is not true and represent it as though it was true.  Misinformed means someone who believes something is true and represents it as true.   How do we tell who is simply misinformed vs someone who is dishonest.  I've noticed that more people with conservative tendencies at least in my life that is seem to think that if someone is not telling the truth they're automatically lying.  This is not so. 

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
9. The purpose of taxes is to raise revenue to operate the government, not to punish the successful.  Quit telling me how the rich should 'pay their fair share'.  Please describe what is fair.  40%, 50%, 60%, 90%, what?  Do I need to go into debt to pay money so the government can re-distribute it?  Oh wait, that's what's happening now...

Is it possible to raise revenue without taxes?  Maybe another mechanism perhaps?   And, to me, fair is to vague for me.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
10. A responsible government will not spend more than it receives.  I don't get to borrow money and make my grand-children pay it back.  When was the last time we shut down a government program?  Do we really need the Small Business Administration, Rural Housing Development Service, Rural Electrification Administration,  U.S. Geological Survey or the Corporation for Public Broadcasting?  NPR is liberal radio that wouldn't exist if it had to vie for advertising revenue.  I get the sense that the purpose of government is not to solve real problems, but to create jobs for people they like.

I agree with you here. 

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM

11. There are demographic groups that have been in America for centuries that deserve the attention of government before any illegal aliens.  When we run out of poor people in America, I know where to get more.

I agree.

Quote from: JustinCase on May 10, 2019, 10:40:25 PM
12. You don't have to love America to live here, but if you hate it so much, why do you stay?

Okay, light me up...

B/c you can check out but you can never leave.  Hotel California by the Eagles

Quote from: The Boo Man... on May 12, 2019, 12:39:18 AM
Remember when Mitt Romney said he was a "severe conservative"? That was a fun time.

I saw that, or something similar. His facial expression was odd when he said it, it was either a lack of conviction, or he was told to lie, either way, they weren't words he had ever uttered in his life and you could tell they were foreign on his lips, like when speaking Japanese words to a Japanese audience, he had that look of uncertainty, as if he knew he had said it wrong. Either way, I don't think he even knows what Conservative means .

Quote from: taxed on May 11, 2019, 07:30:37 PM
Why would you force me to subsidize their rehab?

I hear ya and actually agree. I guess I was coming from a standpoint of., If they're spending  X amount of tax dollars on the drug issue either way, I believe a new direction is needed. Trust me though, I'm all about survival of the fittest but that ain't happening.

Quote from: Socialism Slayer on May 12, 2019, 07:14:17 AM
I hear ya and actually agree. I guess I was coming from a standpoint of., If they're spending  X amount of tax dollars on the drug issue either way, I believe a new direction is needed. Trust me though, I'm all about survival of the fittest but that ain't happening.

I don't disagree that economically it's probably more palatable....

Wow! Love the replies.  Love when someone has a different take on a topic, be it more to the right or left.  Debate is an intellectual exercise, not an emotional one.  You should be able to listen to different points of view and accept that your position might not be the best one.  Shades of grey, right?  The main point I wanted to illicit about conservatism is that we think about things logically first, and then look at our emotions.  Conservatives don't believe the ends justify the means.  A just result has to be obtained justly, not through lies or deception.

Unfortunately, the left is emotional and willing to lie, cheat and steal to obtain what they 'feel' is fair.  Their 'fairness' is measured mostly through their own guilt.  While they're not willing to give up their status or privilege, they feel that if they denounce capitalism, racism, individuality and responsibility for one's own actions, they will absolve themselves of their culpability.