Author Topic: Gun Control  (Read 971 times)

Offline Darth Fife

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Gun Control
« on: December 20, 2012, 03:45:33 PM »
This is mostly for our Liberal Friends...

I would like to hear you identify a specific gun control law which would have prevented the tragedy in Newtown CT. 


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Offline Solar

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 03:54:46 PM »
)))))))))))))crickets((((((((((((((
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Offline Yawn

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 04:37:47 PM »
Well this has got to PO the libs.

NRA Membership Increasing 8,000 A Day After Sandy Hook Shooting
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/447898/nra-membership-increasing-8000-a-day-after-sandy-hook-shooting/#gkG8Au29DFT8REvW.99

They just don't get law abiding America.  Happens EVERY TIME there's a tragedy.  The American People just don't react the way the politicians want them to.

Obama puts guns in the hands of violent criminals in Mexico and "rebels" (aka TERRORISTS) in the Middle East but wants to take then from law abiding American citizens!  Did I mention that I despise this man?

Offline Darth Fife

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 10:18:18 PM »
Where are all of our Liberals?  :huh:

Are they awaiting the arrival of the Mother Ship? :laugh:
"You've been told many times before, messiahs pointed to the door
But no one had the guts to leave the Temple!"
-Tommy, The Who

Offline JustKari

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 10:21:05 AM »
Most of my lib friends (family, I can't help it)  are for the 2nd Amendment, most of them even do some shooting for fun.  Only one has talked about gun bans, and she is ultra lib., she is even a PETA donater.   :confused:  At least shooting is one thing we can talk about without offending each other at Christmas dinner.  :tounge:

Offline thefirebrand

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 12:05:09 PM »
Well, a very simple one would be to high capacity gun clips would certainly have helped. Those particular kind of clips are not used for hunting or self defense, so it should be a no-brainer.
Also; the argument the NRA proposes that we should have armed officers at our schools does not hold water - Columbine had armed guards as well
But in the end, because I'm an independent, I favor a layered approach. Poverty, gun access, children's access to violent video games and movies, drugs and mental health care should ALL be part of the discussion.

Offline Solar

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 12:30:22 PM »
Well, a very simple one would be to high capacity gun clips would certainly have helped. Those particular kind of clips are not used for hunting or self defense, so it should be a no-brainer.
Also; the argument the NRA proposes that we should have armed officers at our schools does not hold water - Columbine had armed guards as well
But in the end, because I'm an independent, I favor a layered approach. Poverty, gun access, children's access to violent video games and movies, drugs and mental health care should ALL be part of the discussion.

Yes, Columbine did have one armed guard, and he was actually effective in saving lives.
But keep in mind, these two idiots had IEDs as well, and he was out gunned.

That’s right, but it isn’t like the deputy was sitting around eating doughnuts during the Columbine massacre. He traded fire (that is, he drew fire) with Harris for an extended period of time, during which Harris’s gun jammed. The deputy and the backup he immediately called for exchanged fire with the shooters a second time and helped begin the evacuation of students, all before the SWAT teams and the rest of the cavalry arrived, and before Harris and Klebold killed themselves in the library. Harris and Klebold had an assault plan — a sloppy plan, but a plan nonetheless. They had dozens of IEDs, some of which detonated, others of which did not. And there were two of them. In this highly chaotic tactical environment, the deputy acted both bravely and prudently, and who knows how many lives he saved by engaging Harris.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/336338/columbine-had-armed-guard-daniel-foster#
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Offline thefirebrand

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 12:36:15 PM »
Very true, but these shootings happened in minutes, mostly limited to a couple of classrooms. Even if there were an armed guard at the school, he most likely wouldn't be able to have done anything. My point is that by the time a person gets to a school (or anywhere) with a gun in their hand and a plan to kill, people will die. The goal should be to keep a person from GETTING to that point, and that involves something more than arming our schools.

Offline Solar

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 12:44:24 PM »
Very true, but these shootings happened in minutes, mostly limited to a couple of classrooms. Even if there were an armed guard at the school, he most likely wouldn't be able to have done anything. My point is that by the time a person gets to a school (or anywhere) with a gun in their hand and a plan to kill, people will die. The goal should be to keep a person from GETTING to that point, and that involves something more than arming our schools.
OK, that's nice and all, but how would you implement such a pan?
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Offline thefirebrand

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 12:55:13 PM »
OK, that's nice and all, but how would you implement such a pan?

THAT'S the big question, and a conversation I would be happy to see. Also: I'm new, so hello and thank you for replying :)
The things I said above about mental health focus, specific types of gun access, increased restrictions on gun show purchases, etc would be a good start. There are many things that we can do that do not involve taking people's guns away or creating a police state. Each area of the country has individual circumstances and should have a tailored approach to their own issues with gun violence. I am very much state's rights oriented, but obviously a nationwide dialogue should be happening to address the fact that guns are falling into the wrong hands.  But adding MORE guns to the equation and militarizing our schools is heading AWAY from personal freedoms, not towards them.

Offline taxed

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 12:59:19 PM »
Very true, but these shootings happened in minutes, mostly limited to a couple of classrooms. Even if there were an armed guard at the school, he most likely wouldn't be able to have done anything. My point is that by the time a person gets to a school (or anywhere) with a gun in their hand and a plan to kill, people will die. The goal should be to keep a person from GETTING to that point, and that involves something more than arming our schools.
That's why teachers should carry firearms, along with the principal and other faculty.  Just training the school to get under their desks and wait to be killed doesn't work very well.
"Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government."  -Milton Friedman

Offline Solar

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 01:22:06 PM »
THAT'S the big question, and a conversation I would be happy to see. Also: I'm new, so hello and thank you for replying :)
The things I said above about mental health focus, specific types of gun access, increased restrictions on gun show purchases, etc would be a good start. There are many things that we can do that do not involve taking people's guns away or creating a police state. Each area of the country has individual circumstances and should have a tailored approach to their own issues with gun violence. I am very much state's rights oriented, but obviously a nationwide dialogue should be happening to address the fact that guns are falling into the wrong hands.  But adding MORE guns to the equation and militarizing our schools is heading AWAY from personal freedoms, not towards them.
First off welcome to the forum.
However, statistics prove that an armed citizenry is a peaceful society.
I don't feel like looking up the stats, but look at Chicago.
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline thefirebrand

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 02:12:44 PM »
First off welcome to the forum.
However, statistics prove that an armed citizenry is a peaceful society.
I don't feel like looking up the stats, but look at Chicago.
Thank you! I'm really liking it here so far :)
I would be interested to see what statistics prove that arming citizens contributes to a peaceful society.

Offline Darth Fife

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 02:28:46 PM »
Well, a very simple one would be to high capacity gun clips would certainly have helped. Those particular kind of clips are not used for hunting or self defense, so it should be a no-brainer.
Also; the argument the NRA proposes that we should have armed officers at our schools does not hold water - Columbine had armed guards as well
But in the end, because I'm an independent, I favor a layered approach. Poverty, gun access, children's access to violent video games and movies, drugs and mental health care should ALL be part of the discussion.

There is some question as to whether or not he had the bushmaster in the school. If that is the case, he did all of the killing with hand guns with normal sized clips.  So restricting the size of the magazine, would have made little difference.

Plus, I question whether an extended magazine would have had that large an effect even if he did have it. He is not going to be standing there, flat footed an firing off all 30 or whatever rounds. He is going to fire a few round, assess the environment, fire a few more rounds, perhaps move to another location. During each one of those "pauses" he would have a chance to replace a "normal" sized clip/magazine.

If he fired one round after another as fast as he could until the magazine was empty, his accuracy would decrease dramatically.
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But no one had the guts to leave the Temple!"
-Tommy, The Who

Offline BILLY Defiant

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 02:36:49 PM »
Very true, but these shootings happened in minutes, mostly limited to a couple of classrooms. Even if there were an armed guard at the school, he most likely wouldn't be able to have done anything. My point is that by the time a person gets to a school (or anywhere) with a gun in their hand and a plan to kill, people will die. The goal should be to keep a person from GETTING to that point, and that involves something more than arming our schools.

What you are talking about involves a comprehensive security plan...which is more involved than putting an armed guard in a school.
And I agree, however, "gun control" measures are NOT going to work.
We have enough laws now that don't work. consider the fact that in the school shooting and the Oregaon Mall shooter the assailant STOLE the weapons.

I am curious that while you previously mentioned "mental health" you seemed to not prioritize it in your list...rather you proposed something as useless as banning Hi Cap clips ( BTW they're not "clips" the proper terminology is magazines).

I for one feel there is a direct correletion to treating "behavior" problems in our youth to the use of drugs in their therapy. Personally I'm appaled at the drugging of our youth.

This is where we need to begin if we want real solutions to this type of violence.

Billy

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