Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: The Stranger on January 08, 2013, 07:07:50 PM

Poll
Question: Will you resist the taking of your GUNS by the Government with Fire Power?
Option 1: Yes votes: 6
Option 2: No votes: 5
Title: Gun Confiscation
Post by: The Stranger on January 08, 2013, 07:07:50 PM
Just wondering how many of US TOUGH guys really would fight off gun confiscation by the Government with Fire Power, Actually sit in your living room and say know then shoot back if fired upon.
Remember you may have kids and a wife near by.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Darth Fife on January 08, 2013, 07:24:42 PM
I"m honest enough to say, NO.

No sense in being a dead martyr, when you can be a live counter-revolutionary.

He will be victorious who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

-Sun Tzu, The Art Of War
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Solar on January 08, 2013, 08:15:23 PM
Of course much depends on the situation, whether we know thy are coming, or is it a surprise search.
In my case I'd be as tactical as possible, but if forced, I'd have no qualms of firing back.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: walkstall on January 08, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: Solar on January 08, 2013, 08:15:23 PM
Of course much depends on the situation, whether we know thy are coming, or is it a surprise search.
In my case I'd be as tactical as possible, but if forced, I'd have no qualms of firing back.

IF... I had a gun  :rolleyes: there is over 6000 to 12000 + acres of land just out side my door.    :popcorn:
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: keyboarder on January 09, 2013, 12:47:08 AM
I have to agree with Walks.  I'm not going to admit that we have guns but if coerced enough I might report the one I met them at the door with. 

I would have to argue that, until it gets changed or overturned, SC residents have the right to keep a gun if they register it and  get a permit.  This right coming from the rule of protecting your home, family, property from intruders because your home is your last place of retreat from such invasiveness.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: kramarat on January 09, 2013, 03:37:22 AM
That would be suicide.

As the federal government continues to become more intrusive, I would, however, take part in a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state.

Given our very recent history, all 50 states should be forming these units as we speak.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 09, 2013, 03:01:06 PM
Resist...yes, with fire power no...stupid...unless you got the entire National Guard from the State of ____________behind you.

Simple, bury your guns or hide them in such a manner that no one can find them.

You can't take what you can't find.

In case you are wondering about Govt confiscation....Good Luck Obamao.

There are 300 Million guns in the US spread out among about 15 Million gunowners.

There are 1 Million Law Enforcement Officers in the USA. (Most of whom don't like the Feds and more who privately own some of the weapons that they are trying to Ban)

from experience, it takes 6 to 8 Man hours to obtain a FEDERAL search warrant, developing probable cause, can take longer, writting the affidavit and getting the US  Attorney to sign off then taking it to the judge in chambers. Once you have all the sigs reporting to the clerk of the court to file copies etc. (You need to bring the 'return' her within so many hours.)

Now actual execution can take an 8 hour shift, considering that Federal search warrants MAY NOT be served between the hours of Midnight and 6 AM unless special circumstances exist (More paperwork from  the Judge).

Preparation, surveillance of the location and at last execution of the warrant....I used to use 8 to10 man team for entry depending on the size off the structure.

A Typical DC Federal Housing apartment with three bedrooms takes about 2 1/2 to 3 hours to search thoroughly, A three story row house about 3-4 hours.

record witnesses present, bag and tag evidence, photo it then interviewing and deciding on arrests.

Arrest somebody and it takes 2 hours to process them then you got to do the reutrns on the warrants and arrest paperwork for the next presentation of court (9 AM).

Now figure all the manhours invested in a simple search warrant execution, double it for arrests and evidence processing for court.
Obamao should be able to get all the guns out of the hands of American citizens in about 34 years...... :lol:

Factor in how many Federal Agents you got, how many warrants you got to get and how many households in America you got to hit to get 300 Million guns,,,,how many people you going to lock up? Where you going to fit them all?
:popcorn:

Now factor in local resisitience from Local Cops, Sheriffs magistrates and others.
:popcorn:

factor in all the lawsuits, wrong arrest suits, excessive force suits and
reversals of the search warrant based upon probable cause that says you are recorded as having a firearm.....oh yeah...you didn't find a firearm did you,,,,faulty PC, faulty warrant, I'm suing and I'm Winning.


You still think the federal Govt is going to be able to confiscate "our" guns?
:popcorn:

They know they can't,

look at the wonderful job they did with 11 Million illegal aliens.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:











Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: kramarat on January 09, 2013, 05:13:41 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 09, 2013, 03:01:06 PM
Resist...yes, with fire power no...stupid...unless you got the entire National Guard from the State of ____________behind you.

Simple, bury your guns or hide them in such a manner that no one can find them.

You can't take what you can't find.

In case you are wondering about Govt confiscation....Good Luck Obamao.

There are 300 Million guns in the US spread out among about 15 Million gunowners.

There are 1 Million Law Enforcement Officers in the USA. (Most of whom don't like the Feds and more who privately own some of the weapons that they are trying to Ban)

from experience, it takes 6 to 8 Man hours to obtain a FEDERAL search warrant, developing probable cause, can take longer, witting the affidavit and getting the US  Attorney to sign off then taking it to the judge in chambers. Once you have all the sigs reporting to the clerk of the court to file copies etc. (You need to bring the 'return' her within so many hours.)

Now actual execution can take an 8 hour shift, considering that Federal search warrants MAY NOT be served between the hours of Midnight and 6 AM unless special circumstances exist (More paperwork from  the Judge).

Preparation, surveillance of the location and at last execution of the warrant....I used to use 8 to10 man team for entry depending on the size off the structure.

A Typical DC Federal Housing apartment with three bedrooms takes about 2 1/2 to 3 hours to search thoroughly, A three story row house about 3-4 hours.

record witnesses present, bag and tag evidence, photo it then interviewing and deciding on arrests.

Arrest somebody and it takes 2 hours to process them then you got to do the reutrns on the warrants and arrest paperwork for the next presentation of court (9 AM).

Now figure all the manhours invested in a simple search warrant execution, double it for arrests and evidence processing for court.
Obamao should be able to get all the guns out of the hands of American citizens in about 34 years...... :lol:

Factor in how many Federal Agents you got, how many warrants you got to get and how many households in America you got to hit to get 300 Million guns,,,,how many people you going to lock up? Where you going to fit them all?
:popcorn:

Now factor in local resisitience from Local Cops, Sheriffs magistrates and others.
:popcorn:

factor in all the lawsuits, wrong arrest suits, excessive force suits and
reversals of the search warrant based upon probable cause that says you are recorded as having a firearm.....oh yeah...you didn't find a firearm did you,,,,faulty PC, faulty warrant, I'm suing and I'm Winning.


You still think the federal Govt is going to be able to confiscate "our" guns?
:popcorn:

They know they can't,

look at the wonderful job they did with 11 Million illegal aliens.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Since when does the Obama administration do things by the book?

They don't recognize constitutional rules. It's beginning to look like they don't even recognize congress.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Darth Fife on January 09, 2013, 08:06:45 PM
Exactly Kramarat!

I also think that Billy has far too much faith in the resistance of local law enforcement.

Obama is too smart to put out a blanket statement that says in effect, "We are going to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens for no good reason!"

No, the order will be to confiscate guns from dangerous persons for the good of society.  I think most (if not all) cops, local, state, and federal will have no problem following orders like that. The few that do refuse will be fired and possibly jailed.

Oh, and btw, anyone who owns a gun will be labeled a "dangerous person".

Just sayin'...

Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 09, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: kramarat on January 09, 2013, 05:13:41 PM
Since when does the Obama administration do things by the book?

They don't recognize constitutional rules. It's beginning to look like they don't even recognize congress.

They don't...but remember, they got to pay for that stuff....how they gonna do that? Such a MASSIVE enforcement effort costs money.

And there are TOO Many layers between Obamao and the Feds coming thru your (my) door for this harebrained scheme of theirs to work.

Billy
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Rockntractor on January 09, 2013, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 09, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
They don't...but remember, they got to pay for that stuff....how they gonna do that? Such a MASSIVE enforcement effort costs money.

And there are TOO Many layers between Obamao and the Feds coming thru your (my) door for this harebrained scheme of theirs to work.

Billy
They don't pay for anything they are doing now, it goes on the tab or debt or whatever you choose to call it.
You are really grasping for something to hold onto here, I doubt there is anything.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 09, 2013, 09:41:31 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on January 09, 2013, 08:06:45 PM
Exactly Kramarat!

I also think that Billy has far too much faith in the resistance of local law enforcement.

Billy is a realist, I've been out of the profession for a while but I keep my finger on the pulse of things. You'd be surprised what cops talk about in the locker room and the donut shop.... :wink:

Obama is too smart to put out a blanket statement that says in effect, "We are going to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens for no good reason!"

True, he is going to try and outlaw scarey looking guns first and go after gun shops that stock them up front...until they take the case to court and the Govt loses...then it is back to square one...with a few million in lawsuits to keep Holder Busy.


No, the order will be to confiscate guns from dangerous persons for the good of society.  I think most (if not all) cops, local, state, and federal will have no problem following orders like that. The few that do refuse will be fired and possibly jailed.

Jailed?..."refuse"...HAH, All they have to do is report in sick that is a tactic we used to call "blue flu" when management was being assholes...AND the union will protect them...public sector unions are like that, there are so many ways to monkey wrench any enforcment efforts just using Dept policy and mandates its incredible.

Stop and think a minute...you mean the LOCAL cops might start going after REAL CRIMINALS, illegal aliens, gangs and all the Obamao supporters slinging dope in the hood like it's 1990...You mean the Black Panthers (who always threaten local cops) might have their door busted in the middle of the night and dragged off to jail....You mean they might start to go after the constituency in Chicago where they got a bumper crop of street homicides with guns?...cool. :popcorn:



Oh, and btw, anyone who owns a gun will be labeled a "dangerous person".

Just sayin'...


Anyone being about 15 million people? Right.... :lol:

Now were back to square one with the cops, local sheriff, retired etc....
Back to the donut shop where we overhear this conversation.....

"you know they are coming after our guns when we get done with the real crooks, now my wife and kid won't be able to protect herself while I'm working the midnight shift"

Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: kramarat on January 10, 2013, 02:26:38 AM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 09, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
They don't...but remember, they got to pay for that stuff....how they gonna do that? Such a MASSIVE enforcement effort costs money.

And there are TOO Many layers between Obamao and the Feds coming thru your (my) door for this harebrained scheme of theirs to work.

Billy

They won't come and bust down our doors. We're talking about radical leftists; they'll do something underhanded.

I don't know........tax bullets so they cost $100 a piece or something. They will be pulling some kind of BS; I just don't know what it is yet. It won't be kicking down doors though.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: The Stranger on January 10, 2013, 05:14:53 AM
I had to comment on the local whether or not they would follow such orders. Remember they still have their GUNS and most are on power trips.
I have asked this question many mnay times and kind of never get a straight answer so here goes.
Who hasn't known an officer who has given a ticket they know wasn't warranted?
So what is the difference between a Law Enforcement Officer who would do such a thing and a common criminal who would hold you up for a thousand dollars?
I know several officers and a few would lie in court about anything and have in the past. If they lie about a simple ticket they will do anything and have no conscious.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: kramarat on January 10, 2013, 05:27:41 AM
Quote from: The Stranger on January 10, 2013, 05:14:53 AM
I had to comment on the local whether or not they would follow such orders. Remember they still have their GUNS and most are on power trips.
I have asked this question many mnay times and kind of never get a straight answer so here goes.
Who hasn't known an officer who has given a ticket they know wasn't warranted?
So what is the difference between a Law Enforcement Officer who would do such a thing and a common criminal who would hold you up for a thousand dollars?
I know several officers and a few would lie in court about anything and have in the past. If they lie about a simple ticket they will do anything and have no conscious.

I know, and have known several cops. Much like the rest of society, the old breed, (that had common sense), are dying off and retiring.

The new breed, combined with local government, are primarily in the business of revenue collection through fines and tickets. There are still a lot of good ones out there, but as a whole, they suck.

And yes...................many of the young ones are very enamored with the sense of power they now have.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: raptor5618 on January 10, 2013, 06:01:11 AM
You do not have to go to every house.  Set up voluntary confiscation points and then go out to different areas and make it a big deal when you go int to get them from someone who will not turn them in voluntarily.  The news would help the effort by televising  it as they smash the doors in, toss in flash bang bombs, tear the house apart as the residents are taken out in handcuffs and forsed to sit on the curb with officers with assault weapons standing guard over them.  If they are lucky enough to have the home owner fire back so they can shoot up part of the family all the better.  With images of a dead or shot up resister and maybe a few members of the family most people who own guns are going to be to afraid that they will face the same thing. 

I would like to think that I would resist and many here say that they would but if you look out your window and your house is surrounded by a swat team armed with automatic weapons with full body armor and in an armored vehicle resistance will result in them taking it from your cold dead fingers. 

So most people would just turn them in, leaving a few that are either brave enough or stupid enough to resist.  One against them will lose.  They had lots of guns in Waco and well it did not work out too well for them did it.  They were ready to die for their cause most people are not willing to fight when the only rational out come is death. 

I think there still is enough rule of law in the US to prevent confiscation but I think that little by little the resistance to making it a possibility is being diminished.  If they are able to ban assault weapons the president has been set for taking away more and more weapons.  There are semiautomatic deer guns that shoot bullets that can reach out farther and do more damage that a .223 or even a .308.  Shotguns hold more than 3 bullets or five and are semiautomatic.  handguns also hold many bullets and are semiautomatic.

If an assault gun goes it shares a lost of features in common with guns that are not currently being attacked.  If it works for one well it is an easy step to go for the others.  Plus it basically does away with the second amendment which at this point is viewed to mean we can have any gun that is typically carried by someone in the military.  The ban would basically take away the one gun that is carried by most people in the military so essentially the amendment would then seem to imply that we can carry any weapon EXCEPT those that are typically carried by the military.   I always hated that term slippery slope but wow it really seems to fit in this case.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Solar on January 10, 2013, 07:31:56 AM
It will not happen in our lifetime, it will however happen.
The left is chipping away at our Rights a little at a time, and like the frog in the pot, every successive generation has no historical reference to what they've lost, because it was lost before their birth, so they, like us, will accept a ban on certain weapons as a means of keeping a larger percentage of the 2nd.

However, the next generation won't have an issue with losing clips or magazines because they still have the Right to possess a weapon, their prodigy won't have an issue with the loss of handguns because they still have the Right to break breach shotguns.

It is up to us to fight the ass holes every step of the way and demand from the next Congress a reinstatement and a reversal of the headway the Marxists have made at whittling away our Rights.
There is no room for capitulation.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 07:57:50 AM
While we're on the subject, I was reading about our idiot NY governor's ""stronger assault weapons ban" in the wake of recent mass murders. One of the features of an "assault weapons" was a bayonet lug. Does anybody have the figures on how many of the victims were bayoneted in any of these recent mass killings?
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 08:43:21 AM
I caught some of Cuomo's speech / rant this morning.  He sounded more like Mussolini in full rage than someone discussing a social-legal issue.

I'm telling you, the progressives-socialists are smelling full victory in the air with their recent victories vs. Boehner, Romney, and Roberts-SC-Obamacare.  They are dreaming of not only their social engineering, but of unbridled permanent power.

It's amazing how long we went in the USA assuming that this type of scenario was impossible in our grand constitutional, democratic, dynamic republic.  But these bastards have cobbled together a path to dictatorship, based on a very unlikely, unbelievable capitulation of the good people, and supporting cast of lunatics and criminals.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 08:45:47 AM
I like to think that God gives us these looks at insanity now and then, just to test our mettle and keep us striving to do our best.

But today's combination of things is scary indeed.

I hope it's not a test from God that has to last hundreds of years.  We've managed to keep it down to 4 or 8 years in the past.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 09:27:38 AM
I think it's interesting that they have taken Obozo's squeaker as a sign that the country is behind all this crap. They have revealed themselves, not realizing that the rest of us don't all live inside the beltway/on the coasts nor receive our information only from the LSM. Just because we might have felt Romney sucked, is not a sign that we want the Obamabots. Talk about misreading the public. You would think that the run on gun stores all over the country would give them pause. But then again, the LSM isn't reporting that, so these clowns have become victims of their own propaganda.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 09:28:32 AM
Regarding the mechanics of the confiscation....keep in mind that the progressives are very devoted to the Marxism concept of decades, generations, and even centuries of slow, incremental victories.

They are too smart to start rushing around society trying to take guns physically.  They know that the people will revolt legally, physically, socially.  So they won't.

They'll start with something firendly, like buybacks and a media-sponsored appeal to guilt, loving/saving the children, don't help the evil gun scourge, etc.

Then they'll pass some dark of the night, back room legislation that kicks off the threats.  Just like Obamacare.  Big taxes on each gun, annually.  Annual registration and checks.  Ammo the same.  OR....you can do the right thing and turn them in.

Then in a few years, turn them in or you're a felon.  Almost all Americans will cave to this.  Only the truly inspired or crazy will risk all their property, jail, and family's well being.

By this time, it will be whittled down to localized Ruby Ridge / Waco type attacks by the feds, and that's nothin'.

So easy and smooth.  We've got to find the opposite strategy to start today.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 09:35:38 AM
Quote from: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 09:27:38 AM
I think it's interesting that they have taken Obozo's squeaker as a sign that the country is behind all this crap. They have revealed themselves, not realizing that the rest of us don't all live inside the beltway/on the coasts nor receive our information only from the LSM. Just because we might have felt Romney sucked, is not a sign that we want the Obamabots. Talk about misreading the public. You would think that the run on gun stores all over the country would give them pause. But then again, the LSM isn't reporting that, so these clowns have become victims of their own propaganda.

Hopefully your'e right.  But Obamacare, the election, the fiscal cliff, have shown the folly of just assuming that logic, honesty, and common sense will prevail.

We're in a brave new world where nonsense, lying, and selfishness are winning quite handily.

We've got to fight everything hard from the get-go, not just let the enemy get a head start while we sit around assuming.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Solar on January 10, 2013, 09:41:40 AM
Quote from: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 09:28:32 AM
Regarding the mechanics of the confiscation....keep in mind that the progressives are very devoted to the Marxism concept of decades, generations, and even centuries of slow, incremental victories.

They are too smart to start rushing around society trying to take guns physically.  They know that the people will revolt legally, physically, socially.  So they won't.

They'll start with something firendly, like buybacks and a media-sponsored appeal to guilt, loving/saving the children, don't help the evil gun scourge, etc.

Then they'll pass some dark of the night, back room legislation that kicks off the threats.  Just like Obamacare.  Big taxes on each gun, annually.  Annual registration and checks.  Ammo the same.  OR....you can do the right thing and turn them in.

Then in a few years, turn them in or you're a felon.  Almost all Americans will cave to this.  Only the truly inspired or crazy will risk all their property, jail, and family's well being.

By this time, it will be whittled down to localized Ruby Ridge / Waco type attacks by the feds, and that's nothin'.

So easy and smooth.  We've got to find the opposite strategy to start today.
Great Minds, and all that.
I was just about to post something similar, the left learned long ago that the GOP capitulate, EVERY-TIME!
They know if they give the impression that they are about to make the largest sweeping gun ban in history, people will settle for clips no bigger than 5 rounds.
It's what they always do, they chip away till nothing is left, they are like the Chinese, they plan decades toward the future..
The next move after that is keeping the mentally ill from getting weapons, but we know what that means, anyone that ever got a prescription for antidepressants will be subject to these laws, and we all know who takes these medications, the overstressed producers of the country.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 12:42:46 PM
Quote from: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 09:35:38 AM
Hopefully your'e right.  But Obamacare, the election, the fiscal cliff, have shown the folly of just assuming that logic, honesty, and common sense will prevail.

We're in a brave new world where nonsense, lying, and selfishness are winning quite handily.

We've got to fight everything hard from the get-go, not just let the enemy get a head start while we sit around assuming.
Have they won, or is that the endless cacophony of the media and the arts trying to convince us they've won?
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 12:55:08 PM
oh, I agree with that.  The MSM is always in nonstop "GOP fractured, GOP bickering, GOP divided, where do they go from here, future uncertain, on the wane, tea party extremists" and so on.

It's just that with Boehner and McConnell and others, it's becoming more true each day.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 02:53:11 PM
Quote from: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 12:55:08 PM
oh, I agree with that.  The MSM is always in nonstop "GOP fractured, GOP bickering, GOP divided, where do they go from here, future uncertain, on the wane, tea party extremists" and so on.

It's just that with Boehner and McConnell and others, it's becoming more true each day.
I wonder if viewing things through the - hoped for - lens of conservative perfection isn't almost as bad as viewing things through the - constant - lens of liberal disdain.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 10, 2013, 03:19:58 PM
Quote from: Rockntractor on January 09, 2013, 09:35:33 PM
They don't pay for anything they are doing now, it goes on the tab or debt or whatever you choose to call it.
You are really grasping for something to hold onto here, I doubt there is anything.

I am, first and foremost, a realist...we've seen this shit before...(Clinton) it didn't work.

Obamao and Idiot Biden are going to make a lot of noise, confiscation/EO scare the living crap out of everyone when what they want is some milder legislation passed(probably something to do with a special tax on guns N Ammo) we'll breathe a sign of relief and they'll take their trophy to the foolish lemmings and let them gorge on it
and Feinstein and the rest of the harridans on congress will get re elected by their equally lemming like constituency.

Billy

Billy
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 10, 2013, 03:19:58 PM
I am, first and foremost, a realist...we've seen this shit before...(Clinton) it didn't work.

Obamao and Idiot Biden are going to make a lot of noise, confiscation/EO scare the living crap out of everyone when what they want is some milder legislation passed(probably something to do with a special tax on guns N Ammo) we'll breathe a sign of relief and they'll take their trophy to the foolish lemmings and let them gorge on it
and Feinstein and the rest of the harridans on congress will get re elected by their equally lemming like constituency.

Billy

Billy
You know the problem for the Dems isn't the Feinsteins and all the other Dems in safely blue areas; it's the Dems in red/purple areas. Hell, I'll bet that the NY Paper that printed the names and address of handgun permit holders, was surprised by all those names and addresses in safely blue Westchester county. It's said that they tried to get the information from Putnam county next door, but the county refused. Did Putnam county refuse - or did the paper decide to save themselves further embarrassment? Imagine printing that information for the entire Metropolitan area - and having it turn out to be a sea of red dots.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 10, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
Quote from: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 03:31:12 PM
You know the problem for the Dems isn't the Feinsteins and all the other Dems in safely blue areas; it's the Dems in red/purple areas. Hell, I'll bet that the NY Paper that printed the names and address of handgun permit holders, was surprised by all those names and addresses in safely blue Westchester county. It's said that they tried to get the information from Putnam county next door, but the county refused. Did Putnam county refuse - or did the paper decide to save themselves further embarrassment? Imagine printing that information for the entire Metropolitan area - and having it turn out to be a sea of red dots.

What you are likely to find in Westchester county is likely a rich Democrat or a retired Judge or Prosecutor who put enough scumbags in jail over the years that he/she needs a gun permit.

Printing their names and addresses will more likely result in a visit from
some revenge seeking felon.

You can bet that any aggrieved former (and active) Judges prosecutors and Politicians are going to come back at the newspaper one way or another.

Billy
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Yawn on January 10, 2013, 04:40:52 PM
The duty of all of these FEDERAL officials is the simply ENFORCE THE CONSTITUTION--not try to solve all of society's problems. It's time we make them understand that OATH they took. Endless laws and regulations is NOT what they are placed in office to do.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: mdgiles on January 10, 2013, 05:16:44 PM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 10, 2013, 04:17:57 PM
What you are likely to find in Westchester county is likely a rich Democrat or a retired Judge or Prosecutor who put enough scumbags in jail over the years that he/she needs a gun permit.

Printing their names and addresses will more likely result in a visit from
some revenge seeking felon.

You can bet that any aggrieved former (and active) Judges prosecutors and Politicians are going to come back at the newspaper one way or another.

Billy
As was explained to me by my nephew - who used to be a NYC policeman - before he moved to Atlanta and became a policeman there - as a HOMEOWNER in the SUBURBS it isn't that hard to get a pistol permit IF THE WEAPON IS GOING TO BE KEPT ON THE PREMISES. Now getting a pistol permit within the NYC limits or getting a carry permit of any kind, is sort of along the lines of rebuilding the Panama Canal - with a teaspoon.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: The Stranger on January 14, 2013, 05:49:53 AM
Couldn't find a place to put this and didn't want to start a new thread.
I do a lot of flipping on Sunday morning laughing at the talk show circuit.
This weekend all the talk about GUNS and NOT ONE proposal would DO A THING to stop GUN violence. Am I the only one who noticed this?
But would make MILLIONS of the most LAW ABIDING citizens CRIMINALS. I had to laugh.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Darth Fife on January 14, 2013, 06:37:05 AM
If you want to see a blueprint for gun confiscation by the government, read Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury or see the movie by Francois Truffaut. Just substitute guns for books.

Holder was being very honest - surprisingly so! They are going to demonize lawful gun owners just like they did with smokers. They will be painted as a danger to themselves and those around them. The public will be bombarded from the media and the children will be bombarded from schools.

And despite Billy's faith in his fellow law enforcement types, the ones who will actively resist orders to confiscate weapons are in the minority and that minority is getting smaller everyday.

Cops, like the military do a thankless and dangerous job but, they are also conditioned to follow orders. If cops are told that confiscating weapons from law abiding civilians is for the good of society - for public safety they will do so. And they have no hesitation about using deadly force to achieve their goal.

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnstarzone.com%2FWACO.jpg&hash=b132f0c79788cd5b7995dcbf67a12cd873f403dd)


(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_c5U1BLm4Z1o%2FSDXxWxysWWI%2FAAAAAAAAA10%2Fce3J0kps7wo%2Fs1600%2FFLDS-raid-in-Texas-at-YFZ-Ranch-on-April-4-2008--photo-by-FLDS-member.jpg&hash=94a7b2d474d681fb9d6bead4c1adc7bc27bd6b8d)

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F4f392d4eecad04c203000008%2Fhutaree-raid.jpg&hash=05ced20adfe0f388bda94adaf22059cf64caf884)

Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: mdgiles on January 14, 2013, 12:59:15 PM
QuoteCops, like the military do a thankless and dangerous job but, they are also conditioned to follow orders.
They are conditioned to follow lawful orders. You'd probably have trouble getting troops to fire on their friends and neighbors. And much of the military comes from areas where gun owners are omnipresent and is supported by people who live in those same areas. Leftists - mainly because they hold the military in contempt - assume that they will follow orders - given to them by civilians they don't particularly like or generals they don't particularly trust - like automatons.
QuoteIf cops are told that confiscating weapons from law abiding civilians is for the good of society - for public safety they will do so. And they have no hesitation about using deadly force to achieve their goal.
And you assume they'll believe that crap because? The political leanings of a bunch of politicized department heads doesn't necessarily represent the views of the officers who'll have to make these seizures. Besides attempting to seize the weapons of the guy who lies down the street from you is a little different than taking on a bunch of "crazies" who live in an isolated compound. And are you assuming that the public will allow themselves to be disarmed? I would use the Katrina situation as a template. The population of New Orleans has lived in a Democraptic sinkhole for generations. They are conditioned to suck on the government teat and follow the governments orders. How well do you think those seizures would have gone in the rest of the state of Louisiana?
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 14, 2013, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on January 14, 2013, 06:37:05 AM
If you want to see a blueprint for gun confiscation by the government, read Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury or see the movie by Francois Truffaut. Just substitute guns for books.

Holder was being very honest - surprisingly so! They are going to demonize lawful gun owners just like they did with smokers. They will be painted as a danger to themselves and those around them. The public will be bombarded from the media and the children will be bombarded from schools.

And despite Billy's faith in his fellow law enforcement types, the ones who will actively resist orders to confiscate weapons are in the minority and that minority is getting smaller everyday.

Cops, like the military do a thankless and dangerous job but, they are also conditioned to follow orders. If cops are told that confiscating weapons from law abiding civilians is for the good of society - for public safety they will do so. And they have no hesitation about using deadly force to achieve their goal.

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnstarzone.com%2FWACO.jpg&hash=b132f0c79788cd5b7995dcbf67a12cd873f403dd)


(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_c5U1BLm4Z1o%2FSDXxWxysWWI%2FAAAAAAAAA10%2Fce3J0kps7wo%2Fs1600%2FFLDS-raid-in-Texas-at-YFZ-Ranch-on-April-4-2008--photo-by-FLDS-member.jpg&hash=94a7b2d474d681fb9d6bead4c1adc7bc27bd6b8d)

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F4f392d4eecad04c203000008%2Fhutaree-raid.jpg&hash=05ced20adfe0f388bda94adaf22059cf64caf884)

You left out "turner diaries"...anyhow, those books are written by people who have no understanding of how things work in all practicality vis a vis Law Enforcement. They are good reads but little else.

You used WACO as an example well, you have to understand that WACO was a turning point in US Law enforcement and from then on there was a different attitude towards Federal agents and it wasn't good. Remember that Koresh and the Local sheriff were on good terms
and he (the Sherifff) gave many an angry rebuke about the raid, he said he could have walked in and had Koresh surrender had he known about the warrant.

You also have to remember that "The Cops" are NOT in Obamao's chain of command, "the cops" are not any of the letter agencies of the Fed govt, they are REGULATOR's ...NOT peace officers. "The Cops" are technically under control of the Governor of the state they are sworn
under, sworn to uphold the US Constitution and the State Constitution and empowered under STATE LAW. Then the Jurisdiction (City) unless it is a county with a sheriff. Now you are talking big time power, the Sheriff is the chief law enforcemet officer in the USA in his county.

And "the cops" have no Love for Obamao, First off he is a lawyer who made his bones registering complaints agianst them as a community organizer. Cops REALLY HATE lawyers particularly the ACLU type ideological public defender version. This is the guy who called them "stupid" and worse this is the guy who sold the bad guys guns who killed a Border patrol agent.

Now with that in mind you have to understand that EVERY police Dept has rules and guidelines about following orders. You might be suprised to learn that every guideline I ever seen (And I teach Police officers sometimes) has a version of an order that exempts you from following an illegal order

In other words no superior can order you to break the law or do something illegal.

Now I have no doubt many of the Federal Agents would do whatever "the President" said, but many would refuse, not outright but in many different ways, the easiest being to go sick or claim and injury and go on light duty, exempting one from operations.

There is a growing rift between states and federal Govt, I've included a few articles to back up my position.


http://www.naturalnews.com/038391_gun_confiscation_executive_orders_cops.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/038391_gun_confiscation_executive_orders_cops.html)

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/11/Kentucky-Sheriff-To-Obama-There-Will-Be-No-Gun-Control-In-My-County (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/11/Kentucky-Sheriff-To-Obama-There-Will-Be-No-Gun-Control-In-My-County)

http://www.independentsentinel.com/2013/01/legislative-rebellion-against-federal-gun-control-in-montana-and-wyoming/ (http://www.independentsentinel.com/2013/01/legislative-rebellion-against-federal-gun-control-in-montana-and-wyoming/)

http://newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry124.htm (http://newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry124.htm)

Billy
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Darth Fife on January 15, 2013, 01:34:22 AM
Quote from: BILLY Defiant on January 14, 2013, 02:53:40 PM
You left out "turner diaries"...anyhow, those books are written by people who have no understanding of how things work in all practicality vis a vis Law Enforcement. They are good reads but little else.

You used WACO as an example well, you have to understand that WACO was a turning point in US Law enforcement and from then on there was a different attitude towards Federal agents and it wasn't good. Remember that Koresh and the Local sheriff were on good terms
and he (the Sherifff) gave many an angry rebuke about the raid, he said he could have walked in and had Koresh surrender had he known about the warrant.

You also have to remember that "The Cops" are NOT in Obamao's chain of command, "the cops" are not any of the letter agencies of the Fed govt, they are REGULATOR's ...NOT peace officers. "The Cops" are technically under control of the Governor of the state they are sworn
under, sworn to uphold the US Constitution and the State Constitution and empowered under STATE LAW. Then the Jurisdiction (City) unless it is a county with a sheriff. Now you are talking big time power, the Sheriff is the chief law enforcemet officer in the USA in his county.

And "the cops" have no Love for Obamao, First off he is a lawyer who made his bones registering complaints agianst them as a community organizer. Cops REALLY HATE lawyers particularly the ACLU type ideological public defender version. This is the guy who called them "stupid" and worse this is the guy who sold the bad guys guns who killed a Border patrol agent.

Now with that in mind you have to understand that EVERY police Dept has rules and guidelines about following orders. You might be suprised to learn that every guideline I ever seen (And I teach Police officers sometimes) has a version of an order that exempts you from following an illegal order

In other words no superior can order you to break the law or do something illegal.

Now I have no doubt many of the Federal Agents would do whatever "the President" said, but many would refuse, not outright but in many different ways, the easiest being to go sick or claim and injury and go on light duty, exempting one from operations.

There is a growing rift between states and federal Govt, I've included a few articles to back up my position.


http://www.naturalnews.com/038391_gun_confiscation_executive_orders_cops.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/038391_gun_confiscation_executive_orders_cops.html)

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/11/Kentucky-Sheriff-To-Obama-There-Will-Be-No-Gun-Control-In-My-County (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/11/Kentucky-Sheriff-To-Obama-There-Will-Be-No-Gun-Control-In-My-County)

http://www.independentsentinel.com/2013/01/legislative-rebellion-against-federal-gun-control-in-montana-and-wyoming/ (http://www.independentsentinel.com/2013/01/legislative-rebellion-against-federal-gun-control-in-montana-and-wyoming/)

http://newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry124.htm (http://newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry124.htm)

Billy

I"m referring to not just WACO, but also the raid on the FLDS "Compound" in El Dorado, TX where LOCAL authorities (that doesn't say FBI on the side of that APC, it says SHERIFF) in full battle gear separated over 500 children from their families based on allegations of "child abuse" by a person who had never even been to the Yearning for Zion Ranch, wasn't even in the same state when she made the phone call and probably couldn't even spell polygamist even with spell check!

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmessengerandadvocate.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F04%2Fflds-caller.jpg%3Fw%3D510&hash=50d408cb5115779729ae80622e0a371312b38344)

The last image was from the Hutaree raid. True, it was a FBI ops, but it was willingly supported by State Police. What was the justification for that raid? An FBI "informant" said the Hutaree were planning to kill cops and blow up more of them at the ensuing funeral. The only problem was, the FBI didn't have enough evidence to bring any of them to trial.

Of course, that was only after 9 members of the Hutaree "militia" had been arrested, had their weapons confiscated and their already pathetic lives ruined.

And even if the cops do resist the orders to confiscate guns... well, we've been down that road before haven't we?

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Um9V9FEmbcY%2FTm3z16P6siI%2FAAAAAAAAJvo%2F6euZABpoTG4%2Fs1600%2FCHURCH%252BBOMBING%252Bgeorge-wallace-blocking-the-school.jpg&hash=348040df8e500e89000d05e3541bcc24c48ae53b)

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bragg.army.mil%2F18abc%2FPublishingImages%2F_4-%25201957%2520%2520Little%2520Rock%2C%2520Arkansas.jpg&hash=2698dd6f6c8c2a443f032cc1b9b56507c5ca46a3)

Now, Wallace was obviously on the wrong side of history and racial segregation was nothing less than evil, however, this does illustrate the fact that when the rubber hits the road, a state, or even a group of states opposes the Federal Government, the states will ultimately lose the battle.

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa0.img.mobypicture.com%2F183f55f8a478c51db10d0c723205db77_view.jpg&hash=089505945f3614562673b8b8f5b806d455ee2bda)
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: wizard on January 15, 2013, 01:45:49 AM
After the Port Arthur mass shooting in Australia, the conservative government pulled a fast one on the NRA, and millions of guns were confiscated or handed in.

Every time there is a mass shooting in the US, I hear Australians doing that "holier than thou" deal, because there are no guns here, and there are (almost) no mass shootings.

There is still quite a bit of gun violence (nowhere near the scale it is in the USA) but it is mostly between gangs or between bikies, and there is an occasional robbery and an occasional suicide by gun.

The media have been pushing this for weeks now. Some of them have been sounding like Piers Morgan. Most of them really don't understand what its all about, because Australians believe their government is their friend, even if they are pissed that the government is a mess, sometimes, and even if they feel the politicians are just a bunch of jerks.

So now it turns out that the number of guns in Australia has been steadily rising for the past 10 years, and the media didn't know, and the governments weren't saying. Now there are a million more guns than there were after the hand-back, 10 years ago.

Guess what, suddenly, the holier-than-thou attitude has disappeared from the airwaves overnight.

Ain't moral superiority grand? - until you learn you were wrong?
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Solar on January 15, 2013, 05:21:53 AM
Quote from: wizard on January 15, 2013, 01:45:49 AM
After the Port Arthur mass shooting in Australia, the conservative government pulled a fast one on the NRA, and millions of guns were confiscated or handed in.

Every time there is a mass shooting in the US, I hear Australians doing that "holier than thou" deal, because there are no guns here, and there are (almost) no mass shootings.

There is still quite a bit of gun violence (nowhere near the scale it is in the USA) but it is mostly between gangs or between bikies, and there is an occasional robbery and an occasional suicide by gun.

The media have been pushing this for weeks now. Some of them have been sounding like Piers Morgan. Most of them really don't understand what its all about, because Australians believe their government is their friend, even if they are pissed that the government is a mess, sometimes, and even if they feel the politicians are just a bunch of jerks.

So now it turns out that the number of guns in Australia has been steadily rising for the past 10 years, and the media didn't know, and the governments weren't saying. Now there are a million more guns than there were after the hand-back, 10 years ago.

Guess what, suddenly, the holier-than-thou attitude has disappeared from the airwaves overnight.

Ain't moral superiority grand? - until you learn you were wrong?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
It's never been about facts or commonsense with libs, it's always been about feelings, the "feeling" they've done something, the "feeling" they've made change, that is until they get the "Feeling" they completely screwed things up, then they blame someone else and claim they need to make change....again..

It never stops with these fools, they can never leave things alone, they always "Feel" they need to change things.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 15, 2013, 03:43:58 PM
Quote from: wizard on January 15, 2013, 01:45:49 AM
After the Port Arthur mass shooting in Australia, the conservative government pulled a fast one on the NRA, and millions of guns were confiscated or handed in.

Every time there is a mass shooting in the US, I hear Australians doing that "holier than thou" deal, because there are no guns here, and there are (almost) no mass shootings.

There is still quite a bit of gun violence (nowhere near the scale it is in the USA) but it is mostly between gangs or between bikies, and there is an occasional robbery and an occasional suicide by gun.

The media have been pushing this for weeks now. Some of them have been sounding like Piers Morgan. Most of them really don't understand what its all about, because Australians believe their government is their friend, even if they are pissed that the government is a mess, sometimes, and even if they feel the politicians are just a bunch of jerks.

So now it turns out that the number of guns in Australia has been steadily rising for the past 10 years, and the media didn't know, and the governments weren't saying. Now there are a million more guns than there were after the hand-back, 10 years ago.

Guess what, suddenly, the holier-than-thou attitude has disappeared from the airwaves overnight.

Ain't moral superiority grand? - until you learn you were wrong?

Last time I was in Australia (Outback Northern territories) there were plenty of guns around. Don't know about the major cities down south.

Billy
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Eyesabide on January 15, 2013, 04:23:22 PM
Finding guns caches for a government is not that difficult. The technology exists wherein an aircraft or a van can pass near homes and catalog the weaponry in them, and take whatever measures deemed needed to remove them. Is it probable cause if you have registered five guns to your address, but there are six weapons in your home?  You have a couple guns buried in the woods? a little home made bunker? Even if they don't know it is yours, they can find it fairly easily.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 15, 2013, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: Eyesabide on January 15, 2013, 04:23:22 PM
Finding guns caches for a government is not that difficult. The technology exists wherein an aircraft or a van can pass near homes and catalog the weaponry in them, and take whatever measures deemed needed to remove them. Is it probable cause if you have registered five guns to your address, but there are six weapons in your home?  You have a couple guns buried in the woods? a little home made bunker? Even if they don't know it is yours, they can find it fairly easily.

Personally I don't think many judges would grant a search warrant based on gun registry. They would have to have PROBABLE CAUSE that the gun you purchased five years ago or whatever was still in a certain residence and under your control or in your possession.

One of the first things you are asked by the judge when you seek a warrant is how current the PROBABLE CAUSE IS.

Said PC must be outlined in the affidavit.

AND a search warrant is only good for the residence or location described

there is numerous case law examples, federal and Local to back up what I'm telling you.

Billy


Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Eyesabide on January 15, 2013, 08:10:18 PM
Surely you are correct, Billy. No dissagreement from me at all.

My point is just if the government feels the need to know what you have in your closet, the means to do it are available.

Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: The Stranger on January 16, 2013, 07:05:37 AM
Obama and children, look familiar?

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stanford.edu%2F%7Esuky%2FWW2%2FHitlerchildren.jpg&hash=e130ca74701c1f68bf6490fe27dd42a456ffda6f)
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: kramarat on January 16, 2013, 07:22:44 AM
This is long, but if you go through it, the parallels are downright scary.

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf (http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf)
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: AndyJackson on January 16, 2013, 07:45:55 AM
It's a tough decision to resist.  You will likely lose your life's savings / property in the process, and possibly get shot depending on a series of somewhat random events.

If you have a family to care for, you pretty well have to decide that they're gonna make the same sacrifices.

Of course TPTB rely on this heavily.  Maybe it's a good pursuit for people who's kids are up and gone, lol.

Maybe put all your assets in gold and silver somewhere, with someone else, and do your resisting from somebody else's rental, heh.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: supsalemgr on January 16, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
Quote from: The Stranger on January 16, 2013, 07:05:37 AM
Obama and children, look familiar?

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stanford.edu%2F%7Esuky%2FWW2%2FHitlerchildren.jpg&hash=e130ca74701c1f68bf6490fe27dd42a456ffda6f)

Children are his favorite prop. He has no shame.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: AndyJackson on January 16, 2013, 08:47:04 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on January 16, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
Children are his favorite prop. He has no shame.
He's got 1001 disgusting habits.

But what does it matter when the media either hides them, or misrepresents them as virtuous ?

We're gonna need a bigger boat to stop them.
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 17, 2013, 04:43:51 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on January 16, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
Children are his favorite prop. He has no shame.


I can do better than that.

Watch the Obamao Youth Brigade marching in formation with their cool uniforms, I could post some other videos of Hitler youth doing the same but i too tired right now.

Obama Youth Brigade March in Formation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtGr1JFCnE#)

Billy

Obama Youth Brigade March in Formation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtGr1JFCnE#)
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: kramarat on January 17, 2013, 05:20:35 AM
Here's a nice one.........

Hitler-Obama Youth Brigade Re-Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PVDiHFVdIE#)
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: The Stranger on January 18, 2013, 07:10:04 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/76023_10151293288842740_1619592893_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Gun Confiscation
Post by: Solar on January 18, 2013, 07:13:08 AM
Quote from: The Stranger on January 18, 2013, 07:10:04 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/76023_10151293288842740_1619592893_n.jpg)
Excellent!
These people are nothing but groveling Toadies that think they will be immune to the wrath of a commie.