Poll

What should be done with the new bill by Graham and Cassidy?

Reject it outright
4 (44.4%)
Pass it to end this debate
1 (11.1%)
Stay with what we have with Obamacare
0 (0%)
It is far from perfect, but takes healthcare out of fed hands
4 (44.4%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill  (Read 696 times)

Offline supsalemgr

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Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« on: September 20, 2017, 10:44:39 AM »
I personally do not think it goes far enough to kill Obamacare, but I would much rather give states the ability to set up their own system. IF CA, NY and other lib states want to go full socialized medicine. Let them go bankrupt on their own.
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Offline tac

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 10:51:36 AM »
I am against any bill that does not repeal Commiecare in it's entirety.

Offline walkstall

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 11:20:06 AM »
I personally do not think it goes far enough to kill Obamacare, but I would much rather give states the ability to set up their own system. IF CA, NY and other lib states want to go full socialized medicine. Let them go bankrupt on their own.

IF we give it to the states then we will be balling then out in under 5 years.  It's pay me now or pay me later.  It's just an old bait and switch game.  The taxpayer has been balling cities and states out for year.  As they will not live with in a budget.  Most everyone that has money has learned to live within a budget.  Cities and states do not!
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Online Solar

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 11:33:28 AM »
I personally do not think it goes far enough to kill Obamacare, but I would much rather give states the ability to set up their own system. IF CA, NY and other lib states want to go full socialized medicine. Let them go bankrupt on their own.
Problem is, we as taxpayers are still footing the Bill through Fed taxes.
The initial Bill sets at around 100 billion and goes up yearly from there, so unless CVommiecare is killed, we'll still have Commiecare lite.
#WWG1WGA

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 12:07:07 PM »
Problem is, we as taxpayers are still footing the Bill through Fed taxes.
The initial Bill sets at around 100 billion and goes up yearly from there, so unless CVommiecare is killed, we'll still have Commiecare lite.

I agree with you and Walks. It appears something may get passed and passing down control to the states is better than letting the professional scammers in Washington keep control. It is still too much money controlled by government.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 02:16:25 PM »
I think the money spent on Obamacare isn't really the issue. I think personal liberty is the issue.

The actual direct expense of Ocare, in terms of subsidies and payoffs and mandates, is fairly small compared to the two elephants in the room -- Medicare and Medicaid. Most of the "expansion" of the "insured" population under Ocare was, after all, just more people on Medicaid. Right now, the percentage of the population with no form of medical coverage (I won't call it "insurance") is about the same as it was in 2009.

Ocare was never about costs or insurance or health care anyhow. It was always about government control, and it will never be about anything else.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

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Offline Hoofer

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 03:09:34 PM »
I think the money spent on Obamacare isn't really the issue. I think personal liberty is the issue.

The actual direct expense of Ocare, in terms of subsidies and payoffs and mandates, is fairly small compared to the two elephants in the room -- Medicare and Medicaid. Most of the "expansion" of the "insured" population under Ocare was, after all, just more people on Medicaid. Right now, the percentage of the population with no form of medical coverage (I won't call it "insurance") is about the same as it was in 2009.

Ocare was never about costs or insurance or health care anyhow. It was always about government control, and it will never be about anything else.

Obamacare is just the beginning, IMO.  The next set of Liberals that get into the WH will be pushing to "penalize" unhealthy behaviour.  First it'll be that old SMOKING - as a drag on the single payer system.   Then overweight, diabetes, high blood pressure, cancers, the aged, and the excuse for denying coverage won't surprise any of us, "Too costly for the system!  We can't pay for these costly surgeries at the twilight of one's life, when they are *unproductive* and not paying into the system."

Obama already let the cat out of the bag with his, 'grandma just take a pill & forego surgery' statement.
To make sure, there will be enforcement of policy, patients and doctors.

Repeal it all.... damn coward GOP!
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Online s3779m

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 04:03:41 PM »
I'm hoping passing this will help Tea in 2018. My fear has been when obamacare bankrupts, the libs and rino's will claim they were forced to go single payer. Living in Texas, I do trust my state government more than the Federal, and can completely understand the non trust those in other states have. I can see California using their share of the $ to push single payer for the state. Had mccain not won the primary in 2008, I do not think we would be in this damn mess.

Offline The Boo Man...

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 09:17:28 PM »
Problem is, we as taxpayers are still footing the Bill through Fed taxes.
The initial Bill sets at around 100 billion and goes up yearly from there, so unless CVommiecare is killed, we'll still have Commiecare lite.

That's the bit. The whole federalism argument is great and each state being able to design it's own plans is the way it's supposed to work. But the fed is still paying for it with our money and therefore they continue to have complete control. It's streets ahead of Obamacare but not good enough.

Online Solar

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 04:14:27 AM »
That's the bit. The whole federalism argument is great and each state being able to design it's own plans is the way it's supposed to work. But the fed is still paying for it with our money and therefore they continue to have complete control. It's streets ahead of Obamacare but not good enough.
Exactly Boo! If the Fed was out of it completely, this wouldn't be an issue, but the fed is the one dictating the ground rules of the game and doling out the funds for the players involved.
It not only screams crony connection but the fact the establishment gop needed to camouflage the package it comes in, by claiming it a states Rights issue should freeze everyone in their tracks.

So what do we have? Well let's look at it this way, Congress writes a Bill killing Commiecare and we start from scratch, the States are free to do whatever they please.

But that's not what's happening, the leftists want this so bad, they are willing to...ummm, well, pretend that splitting up 100 billion dollars in the first Bill to be doled out to the States, rather than the states apply for a portion of said funds under Commiecare, with all the stifling rules still in place.

So, how is this any different? The States are stuck creating 50 new bureaucracies, rather than the Fed creating one for all the States.

Did you want ham on that cheese sandwich, or did you want cheese on that ham sandwich? It's all in how one wants to look at it, and when you look hard enough, it's still Commiecare with ham and cheese, or cheese and ham.
#WWG1WGA

Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 03:33:38 PM »
I think the argument isn't over federalism or states' rights or budget allowances. Or at least it shouldn't be.

The argument is over whether government -- at any level -- should be involved in the financing of most people's health care. And the answer to that argument is simple -- it should not.

Research the history. Read the books and articles. No matter how you slice it, no matter how you approach it, government at all levels has ruined, warped, slanted, distorted, folded, spindled, and mutilated the health care market. The one and ONLY solution at this point in time is to extract the federal government from the mix, root and branch.

I can say just one positive thing about the latest proposal. At least when the question is reduced to the state level, we can vote with our feet. Trouble is, it's still gonna be Uncle Sam passing out the coin.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Offline The Boo Man...

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 06:46:46 PM »
The bill will probably have to include funding for PP if Murkowski and Collins are to vote for it.

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2017, 11:33:43 AM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/22/senator-john-mccain-says-he-cannot-support-graham-cassidy-obamacare-repeal-bill.html

McCain says he will not support Graham/Cassidy. I understand why someone would oppose the plan, but McCain's reasoning is plain silly to me. He thinks democrats should be included in the process.

Dumbass, are you so senile you have forgotten how Obamacare was passed by democrats only with no GOP input. If you think democrats are going to help Trump and the GOP you have truly lost it.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Offline ldub23

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2017, 02:43:39 PM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/22/senator-john-mccain-says-he-cannot-support-graham-cassidy-obamacare-repeal-bill.html

McCain says he will not support Graham/Cassidy. I understand why someone would oppose the plan, but McCain's reasoning is plain silly to me. He thinks democrats should be included in the process.

Dumbass, are you so senile you have forgotten how Obamacare was passed by democrats only with no GOP input. If you think democrats are going to help Trump and the GOP you have truly lost it.

McCains dying gasp is to piss on everyone.

Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Graham/Cassidy Health Insurance Bill
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2017, 05:30:15 PM »
McCains dying gasp is to piss on everyone.

I wouldn't piss on John McCain if was lying in front of me on fire. But that's just me....
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

 

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