I take a great deal of pride in my being fiscally responsible for myself. From this, I think it is virtuous to try and make my government fiscally responsible also. I want a government I can be proud to call myself a citizen of, which is a goal I think we all share.

The Drug War has undergone several re-definitions of success over the years, as those who support it have made consistent efforts to justify their use of the government in this way. Some include:
1) The protection of society from persons made crazed and dangerous by drug use.
2) The protection of individuals from themselves, by detaining and jailing them.
3) The protection of children from the caustic influence of drug dealers, which is bad enough to justify jailing the dealers.
4) The reduction of drug use by the threat of imprisonment.

The reasons for supporting the drug war are many, but I think compelling evidence shows that the threat to society as a whole is largely imaginary, and in attempting to mitigate these threats, the government has caused extreme harm to communities and individuals.

But I will focus on the money cost of this. We can all appreciate getting a bang for our buck, that is, getting what we paid for. The drug war has not accomplished any of the things I've listed, and there's no evidence that it ever will. Take this report on cannabis consumption vs. drug war spending.

http://www.icsdp.org/Libraries/doc1/Tools_for_Debate_-_US_Federal_Government_Data_on_Cannabis_Prohibition.sflb.ashx

And a more easily understood graph showing the relationship between government spending and drug addiction.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/10/chart-says-war-drugs-isnt-working/57913/

I think it is the duty of everyone who values fiscal responsibility to demand an end to the drug war. Not to mention, this is the most literal arm of the "Big Government" in the worst way. How many other groups of people actually face the threat of destruction of their private property and the violent detention of themselves, followed by their right to vote taken away and impossibly high fines being imposed on them? In my state of NJ, look at the laws regarding cannabis possession and ask yourself: is this is how a FREE society handles things?

http://norml.org/laws/penalties/item/new-jersey-penalties-2

Please discuss.

It Simple for me.  Drug kill and destroy lives and families

The Government does not went to stop it.  It's money in there pocket and full time jobs.

I am not sure how you tied the two together but the War on Drug is an absolute failure.  The drug cartels are bigger and better financed than ever because they have more buyers in our country.  Sorry but that is the way I see it.

Quote from: simpsonofpg on May 30, 2013, 01:19:59 PM
I am not sure how you tied the two together but the War on Drug is an absolute failure.  The drug cartels are bigger and better financed than ever because they have more buyers in our country.  Sorry but that is the way I see it.

I agree, it's a cultural problem more than anything.

We should be following the Netherlands policy on drugs. Back in the 70s the Netherlands was overrun by drug gangs and a huge hard drugs problem. They legalized Marijuana in coffee shops and now drug violence and the use of hard drugs (ie cocaine, heroin, etc) is virtually unheard of. Amsterdam was the only city where I've ever felt safe enough to walk down an alley at 3:00AM without the fear some junkie was going to mug me or I was going to run into some people engaged in a drug deal and get hurt.

Quote from: Skeptic on May 30, 2013, 02:59:14 PM
We should be following the Netherlands policy on drugs. Back in the 70s the Netherlands was overrun by drug gangs and a huge hard drugs problem. They legalized Marijuana in coffee shops and now drug violence and the use of hard drugs (ie cocaine, heroin, etc) is virtually unheard of. Amsterdam was the only city where I've ever felt safe enough to walk down an alley at 3:00AM without the fear some junkie was going to mug me or I was going to run into some people engaged in a drug deal and get hurt.

They're rethinking that plan and closing down some of those coffee shops.
The experiment is starting to prove a failure.

Quote from: Solar on May 30, 2013, 03:03:05 PM
They're rethinking that plan and closing down some of those coffee shops.
The experiment is starting to prove a failure.

The problem is that the EU is putting a lot of pressure on Amsterdam to change, but as of last year when I was there for the 3rd time, Amsterdam is as clean and as safe as ever.

Look, if you don't want to adopt that system, fine, but we have to do something else because whatever we are trying isn't working. The War on Drugs has been an expensive failure.

Quote from: Skeptic on May 30, 2013, 03:04:55 PM
The problem is that the EU is putting a lot of pressure on Amsterdam to change, but as of last year when I was there for the 3rd time, Amsterdam is as clean and as safe as ever.

Look, if you don't want to adopt that system, fine, but we have to do something else because whatever we are trying isn't working. The War on Drugs has been an expensive failure.

Yep, that's why they are creating clubs with membership open only to Dutch residents, which isn't a bad thing but probably will have a negative effect on tourism.
Which they will rethink at a later date when that money is badly needed.

Quote from: Solar on May 30, 2013, 03:13:27 PM
Yep, that's why they are creating clubs with membership open only to Dutch residents, which isn't a bad thing but probably will have a negative effect on tourism.
Which they will rethink at a later date when that money is badly needed.

They probably will rethink it. Marijuana tourism brings too much money. Funny though, I've been there three times and never tried marijuana. Don't think it wasn't tempting though. However, even without marijuana Amsterdam is still an amazing place to visit. They have top notch museums and the architecture is to die for (if you happen to be a fan of 16th, 17th, and 18th century European architecture.) I have probably photographed every single historic building in Amsterdam by now.

The only country that beats their architecture, in my opinion, is Italy. I love Italy, but Italian people take some getting used to.   

PS: I wasn't completely good in Amsterdam. I did buy a few boxes of Cuban Cigars. I love my cigars 

Quote from: Skeptic on May 30, 2013, 03:25:30 PM
PS: I wasn't completely good in Amsterdam. I did buy a few boxes of Cuban Cigars. I love my cigars 

Same here, smoking a Monte Cristo Buena Fortuna at this very moment.

 I was in Amsterdam during the 90's and herion was being sold on the street.  Not a really safe place.

Sign...The WOD again

Two issues

The link between imported drugs and terrorism is undeniable, we can stop the "War" on drugs but the drugs or rather the drug lords will not stop their war on us.

Half of the "war chest" for the "drug war" went to fund rehabilitation and treatement for addicts...with about a 4% success rate.


Now with Obamao care kicking in how much of that money do you think will be wasted on "the drug war" to rehabilitate and treat addicts?


Billy

Quote from: Skeptic on May 30, 2013, 02:59:14 PM
We should be following the Netherlands policy on drugs. Back in the 70s the Netherlands was overrun by drug gangs and a huge hard drugs problem. They legalized Marijuana in coffee shops and now drug violence and the use of hard drugs (ie cocaine, heroin, etc) is virtually unheard of. Amsterdam was the only city where I've ever felt safe enough to walk down an alley at 3:00AM without the fear some junkie was going to mug me or I was going to run into some people engaged in a drug deal and get hurt.

Unless of course you're Gay or Jewish; then the IslamoThugs in Amsterdam are alway ready to kill you.