Trump Executive Orders etc...

Started by supsalemgr, January 24, 2017, 08:40:09 AM

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Solar

Quote from: Josey on February 28, 2017, 06:22:17 AM
I am not a fan of EO, past present or future. I think Trump should of went to congress and said here fix this by next week and I'll sign it. Those who balked then folks can work on replacing them in the next election.
Problem is, Congress refused to address it when they had the chance.
What Trump is doing, is essentially their job, what they refused to address, the law of the land as in upholding the constitution.
Trump has put it front and center, forcing congress to deal with it, like it or not. He's setting Congress' agenda for them.
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zewazir

Quote from: Josey on February 28, 2017, 06:22:17 AM
I am not a fan of EO, past present or future. I think Trump should of went to congress and said here fix this by next week and I'll sign it. Those who balked then folks can work on replacing them in the next election.
If you "are not a fan" of EOs, you do not understand what they are.  In simple terms, every time the president tells the staff of a cabinet or agency how or what to do in relation to laws governing that cabinet/agency, he is essentially issuing an executive order.  The problem is not EOs themselves, but when a president abuses the authority to change the law, either by adding enforcement aspects which are not in the law (war on coal), actually changing the law (Delaying deadlines of the ACA) or refusing to enforce it at all (immigration).

Thus far Trump has been very careful to issue EOs that stay within the limits of authority of the executive branch.  Obama wandered out of that limitation so many times it may as well have not existed.

Josey

Quote from: zewazir on February 28, 2017, 06:47:39 AM
If you "are not a fan" of EOs, you do not understand what they are.  In simple terms, every time the president tells the staff of a cabinet or agency how or what to do in relation to laws governing that cabinet/agency, he is essentially issuing an executive order.  The problem is not EOs themselves, but when a president abuses the authority to change the law, either by adding enforcement aspects which are not in the law (war on coal), actually changing the law (Delaying deadlines of the ACA) or refusing to enforce it at all (immigration).

Thus far Trump has been very careful to issue EOs that stay within the limits of authority of the executive branch.  Obama wandered out of that limitation so many times it may as well have not existed.

I understand exactly what they are and how they work. I wasn't a fan when oBlamer used them either for ANY reason.
My point is if there's a problem with immigration change the law, same with oBlamercare.
He is a Republican like it or not, Republicans have an advantage although it may be slight.
I would like to have seen him address the R's in the legislature early on and put his foot down, or up their  *ss.
Another two yrs of a do nothing legislature and the R's are toast in two yrs. as will be Trump.
If the libs want to block at every turn fine then Trump and EVERY R must take that to the people in simple forum everyday. When they get in front of the MSM don't cower but stick to the message.
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Solar

Quote from: Josey on February 28, 2017, 08:37:27 AM
I understand exactly what they are and how they work. I wasn't a fan when oBlamer used them either for ANY reason.
My point is if there's a problem with immigration change the law, same with oBlamercare.
Wherein lies the problem, we have the laws in place, and the GOP refused to fund them as in the border issues, while they turned a blind eye to Commiecare.
Point being, Trump is forced to move things along in a temporary fashion via EO.

QuoteHe is a Republican like it or not, Republicans have an advantage although it may be slight.
I would like to have seen him address the R's in the legislature early on and put his foot down, or up their  *ss.
Another two yrs of a do nothing legislature and the R's are toast in two yrs. as will be Trump.
If the libs want to block at every turn fine then Trump and EVERY R must take that to the people in simple forum everyday. When they get in front of the MSM don't cower but stick to the message.

The GOP is on a short leash with the electorate, an electorate hell bent on kicking out the leftist scum out of the party.
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supsalemgr

Quote from: Josey on February 28, 2017, 06:22:17 AM
I am not a fan of EO, past present or future. I think Trump should of went to congress and said here fix this by next week and I'll sign it. Those who balked then folks can work on replacing them in the next election.

Your point is well made. The reason EO's have become so prevalent is congress had abdicated its responsibility. Congress is more than happy to let the POTUS take any heat as they go about when their hands  for their next campaign.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Solar

Quote from: supsalemgr on February 28, 2017, 09:24:51 AM
Your point is well made. The reason EO's have become so prevalent is congress had abdicated its responsibility. Congress is more than happy to let the POTUS take any heat as they go about when their hands  for their next campaign.
Exactly! And the GOP wasn't all that opposed to what the Marxist was doing.
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taxed

Quote from: Josey on February 28, 2017, 06:22:17 AM
I am not a fan of EO, past present or future. I think Trump should of went to congress and said here fix this by next week and I'll sign it. Those who balked then folks can work on replacing them in the next election.

Huh?
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zewazir

Quote from: Solar on February 28, 2017, 09:31:52 AM
Exactly! And the GOP wasn't all that opposed to what the Marxist was doing.
When Congress writes the law which allows agencies to write their own rules, it causes all kinds of constitutional conflicts. That is on Congress. Agencies apply law, not make it.

But a lazy congress does not make the IDEA of EOs wrong. A president still needs to issue commands to the military, the cabinet, and others of the executive branch. IMO, putting those commands in the form of EOs allows for more transparency.  The People can read what he is telling his people to do.  EOs are a tool, and like any other tool, the manner one is used makes it good or bad for the republic. Obama abused the authority and straight out violated the law with many of them.

Solar

Quote from: zewazir on February 28, 2017, 02:23:35 PM
When Congress writes the law which allows agencies to write their own rules, it causes all kinds of constitutional conflicts. That is on Congress. Agencies apply law, not make it.

But a lazy congress does not make the IDEA of EOs wrong. A president still needs to issue commands to the military, the cabinet, and others of the executive branch. IMO, putting those commands in the form of EOs allows for more transparency.  The People can read what he is telling his people to do.  EOs are a tool, and like any other tool, the manner one is used makes it good or bad for the republic. Obama abused the authority and straight out violated the law with many of them.
The POTUS is afforded the luxury of appointing Diplomats without a consent of Congress, as in the form of an EO, and from what I understand, the EO was designed for formal relations abroad with potential allies or declaring acts of war including Martial Law, all of which fall under Executive Orders.
Until it's abused, it'll exist at the president's prerogative until such time Congress challenges it or defines its limits.

Another organization that needs to be reeled in is the FAA and it's writing of rules. That needs to stop, these entities are growing beyond the parameters they were afforded at their inception. They want to write law, then they need to run it all by Congress first.
But it's becoming more and more clear, Congress would rather avoid actually working and let POTUS do as they please.
We are quickly approaching a single branch of govt and two rubber stamp branches...
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