Author Topic: Environy  (Read 319 times)

Online Solar

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Environy
« on: September 22, 2017, 02:32:23 PM »
God, this is sooo true! This is what Walks has been dealing with most of the summer.



The Pacific Northwest’s fires don’t interest people much for the same reason that people in New York and D.C. don’t understand why Westerners like pick ups, SUVs and guns.
You’ll notice, however,  that those items have been front and center in the national debate for the last two decades, so you should probably listen up to what I’m about to tell you.
The conflagration enveloping forest land in Idaho, Washington, Oregon and points west would be a huge national story if the media told you the truth about them.
One complex of the Oregon fires is burning dangerously close to the jewel of the Columbia Gorge, the Multnomah Falls Lodge.

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But for going on three decades, the environmentalists who have been peddling the save-the-trees-owls-man-made-global-warming-cooling-a-mud-puddle-is-a-navigable-waterway  theories – the very people who tout “visiting the forest” in ads – have been setting the table for the devastation you see.

While photos like this one of downtown Portland, Oregon point up in heartbreaking detail the ash rains that haven’t been seen in these parts since the explosion of Mt. St. Helens in 1980, the photo also points up a big ‘environy,’  a word my old friend Jim Walker of Orbusmax, coined.
The radical environmentalists who populate all of Oregon, Washington and the federal government’s highest echelons of government have worked tirelessly to destroy the logging and forest management industries. In fact, they’ve largely succeeded.
Former logging towns are ghost towns. Entire regions are on government welfare to make up for the private wealth the environmentalists destroyed.
But these so called environmentalists have destroyed much more.
Federal and state forests haven’t been properly managed because to do so violates the beliefs of the nuts like this who worships trees. Remember her?

More~~~~~~~~~~~

http://politicalvanguard.com/its-raining-ash-in-the-pacific-northwest-the-reason-why-is-a-heartbreaking-environy/
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Offline Hoofer

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Re: Environy
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 07:34:41 AM »
What do you need to BREATHE in that atmosphere?

Seriously, a gas mask, or does a simple particulate mask work?
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Online Solar

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Re: Environy
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 07:53:15 AM »
What do you need to BREATHE in that atmosphere?

Seriously, a gas mask, or does a simple particulate mask work?
Good question. A disposable mask is fine for short errands, but if you have to work in it, you need a real world filter.
When I was fighting fires, I was surprised just how hazardous trees and brush smoke was, even got a horrible case of poison oak on the inside and outside of my lungs.
Not to mention coughing up God knows what day and night, black chunks of?
At least here in Ca, the state spent the money on air tankers and fire stations, my area alone has 7 within a 10 mile radius, and about 30 in a 20 mile stretch, it's just a way of life now that we aren't harvesting the forest the way we should be, the underbrush is getting out of control in the National Forests, while private logging lands keep theirs clean.

The problem is, there's no escaping it, especially summer nights, when the air/smoke lays down on the ground and you can't even crack a window.
None of which would matter, except that under the Marxist plan, "energy prices would naturally skyrocket", and they did and not everyone can afford to run an air conditioner 24/7 all summer long.

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Offline Hoofer

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Re: Environy
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 08:04:41 AM »
Occasionally, we get a forest fire around southern Virginia.  The closest trees to my house are 125' away, and I like to keep the underbrush down.   But... I'd really like to harvest those trees and get some $ from them, instead of start watching them die and fall over.

Anyhow, I found a good deal on 3m particulate masks, but don't know if they're really useful for something like that situation.
They're part of the vehicle first aid kit.


They're thick & layered, hope I got something that would filter out that fine smoke particles.  Also looking for some kind of system for the house, to create positive pressure and keep the crap from coming IN.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Online Solar

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Re: Environy
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 08:23:29 AM »
Occasionally, we get a forest fire around southern Virginia.  The closest trees to my house are 125' away, and I like to keep the underbrush down.   But... I'd really like to harvest those trees and get some $ from them, instead of start watching them die and fall over.

Anyhow, I found a good deal on 3m particulate masks, but don't know if they're really useful for something like that situation.
They're part of the vehicle first aid kit.


They're thick & layered, hope I got something that would filter out that fine smoke particles.  Also looking for some kind of system for the house, to create positive pressure and keep the crap from coming IN.
-
Yeah, I use those when I blow the house out with the leaf blower, they're OK for a short time, but leake too much to stop smoke.
Yeah, the clay dust is severe here in the mountains, it's so fine, it acts exactly like smoke but nowhere as toxic. As I pull my mask away to smoke my Montecristo. :lol:
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Environy
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 02:21:39 PM »
Occasionally, we get a forest fire around southern Virginia.  The closest trees to my house are 125' away, and I like to keep the underbrush down.   But... I'd really like to harvest those trees and get some $ from them, instead of start watching them die and fall over.

Anyhow, I found a good deal on 3m particulate masks, but don't know if they're really useful for something like that situation.
They're part of the vehicle first aid kit.


They're thick & layered, hope I got something that would filter out that fine smoke particles.  Also looking for some kind of system for the house, to create positive pressure and keep the crap from coming IN.

I used to work for an environmental monitoring company, and we were thoroughly trained with regard to respirators. These 3M paper things are junk. They'll keep tree branches and bricks and car parts out of your airway, but so will your teeth. More to the point, they won't stop the particulates that will hurt you, most of which are invisible to the naked eye.

The paper masks fall into a broad category called "negative pressure" respirators. That means they function when an area of negative pressure is generated on one side of the filter medium, meaning pressure lower than the ambient atmospheric pressure. This happens when you inhale -- the area inside the mask becomes a "negative pressure" zone, and outside air is forced through the filter to your airway.

But there are two problems with this scenario. First, the filter medium in these cheap masks is so porous that the harmful stuff gets through almost untouched. Second, the fit of the mask against your face is so poor that it doesn't really matter if you have one on or not. If you have a beard or mustache, or even if you haven't shaved in a day or two, that's enough to completely negate the beneficial effects of any negative pressure respirator, even a good one. If there's no seal, meaning respirator-to-skin seal, there's no beneficial effect. The contaminated air just leaks through your facial hair and around the respirator.

I remember once when I was working as an inspector on an asbestos removal project, I ran into a removal worker inside a sealed containment wearing a half-mask rubber respirator with a hole in it, a neatly-drilled 1/4" hole just in front of his mouth. He told me he had drilled the hole to allow a cigarette to be inserted and smoked -- a thing obviously prohibited inside any such containment. I asked him what he did to control the leakage when he wasn't smoking, and he looked at me as if I had started speaking a foreign language.  :rolleyes:

If you're in a situation where there's a lot of blowing or airborne debris, those paper masks may be useful to fend off the nuisance of such stuff. They will not, actually can not, protect you from smoke and other airborne particulates.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Offline Hoofer

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Re: Environy
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 06:56:17 AM »
I used to work for an environmental monitoring company, and we were thoroughly trained with regard to respirators. These 3M paper things are junk. They'll keep tree branches and bricks and car parts out of your airway, but so will your teeth. More to the point, they won't stop the particulates that will hurt you, most of which are invisible to the naked eye.

The paper masks fall into a broad category called "negative pressure" respirators. That means they function when an area of negative pressure is generated on one side of the filter medium, meaning pressure lower than the ambient atmospheric pressure. This happens when you inhale -- the area inside the mask becomes a "negative pressure" zone, and outside air is forced through the filter to your airway.

But there are two problems with this scenario. First, the filter medium in these cheap masks is so porous that the harmful stuff gets through almost untouched. Second, the fit of the mask against your face is so poor that it doesn't really matter if you have one on or not. If you have a beard or mustache, or even if you haven't shaved in a day or two, that's enough to completely negate the beneficial effects of any negative pressure respirator, even a good one. If there's no seal, meaning respirator-to-skin seal, there's no beneficial effect. The contaminated air just leaks through your facial hair and around the respirator.

I remember once when I was working as an inspector on an asbestos removal project, I ran into a removal worker inside a sealed containment wearing a half-mask rubber respirator with a hole in it, a neatly-drilled 1/4" hole just in front of his mouth. He told me he had drilled the hole to allow a cigarette to be inserted and smoked -- a thing obviously prohibited inside any such containment. I asked him what he did to control the leakage when he wasn't smoking, and he looked at me as if I had started speaking a foreign language.  :rolleyes:

If you're in a situation where there's a lot of blowing or airborne debris, those paper masks may be useful to fend off the nuisance of such stuff. They will not, actually can not, protect you from smoke and other airborne particulates.

I've had a beard for 45 years, probably shaved it off 5-6 times and grew it right back.  Oh well...

These have worked in the shop for while running the table saw - but that's big particle stuff.
You're probably right about the fine particles getting through.

is there any benefit to the "wet towel" trick to make a towel/mask more effective if you wrap it around your mouth/nose?

What worked for people during the Mt Saint Helens eruption to keep breathing?
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Online walkstall

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Re: Environy
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 07:40:48 AM »
I've had a beard for 45 years, probably shaved it off 5-6 times and grew it right back.  Oh well...

These have worked in the shop for while running the table saw - but that's big particle stuff.
You're probably right about the fine particles getting through.

is there any benefit to the "wet towel" trick to make a towel/mask more effective if you wrap it around your mouth/nose?

What worked for people during the Mt Saint Helens eruption to keep breathing?

I was just over 60 mile from the eruption and there was very little fallout in my area.  More of a light dusting.  I did not see anyone using something to keep breathing.  We could see the eruption from our back yard.  Most everything was going East that I could see.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Environy
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 08:13:59 AM »
I've had a beard for 45 years, probably shaved it off 5-6 times and grew it right back.  Oh well...

These have worked in the shop for while running the table saw - but that's big particle stuff.
You're probably right about the fine particles getting through.

is there any benefit to the "wet towel" trick to make a towel/mask more effective if you wrap it around your mouth/nose?

What worked for people during the Mt Saint Helens eruption to keep breathing?

I don't know about Mt. St. Helens or any other volcano. I was taught that, in general, if you can see the stuff in the air, it probably won't hurt you unless it is chemically toxic. Asbestos fibers, for example, are chemically inert and not harmful if you can see them; fibers that size will get trapped in the mucus lining your sinus passages and expelled. It's the ones you can't see without a microscope that will ruin your lungs. The situation is similar with silicon dust, another inert mineral that is a serious hazard in mining and tunneling operations. It's the dust particles you can't see that will kill you. Black lung victims, same story.

On the other hand, and maybe more to your question about volcano ash, I worked on a couple of coal powerplant shutdown maintenance projects where workers were exposed to clouds of fly ash. (Cleaning out precipitators.) Some of the guys were hospitalized and diagnosed with arsenic poisoning. It turns out that coal contains inorganic arsenic compounds in low concentrations. But when the coal burns away, the arsenic (which has a higher combustion temperature) remains in the ash, making it quite toxic. These guys wore cheap paper masks which, of course, did nothing at all to protect them.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Online Solar

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Re: Environy
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2017, 08:32:08 AM »
I don't know about Mt. St. Helens or any other volcano. I was taught that, in general, if you can see the stuff in the air, it probably won't hurt you unless it is chemically toxic. Asbestos fibers, for example, are chemically inert and not harmful if you can see them; fibers that size will get trapped in the mucus lining your sinus passages and expelled. It's the ones you can't see without a microscope that will ruin your lungs. The situation is similar with silicon dust, another inert mineral that is a serious hazard in mining and tunneling operations. It's the dust particles you can't see that will kill you. Black lung victims, same story.

On the other hand, and maybe more to your question about volcano ash, I worked on a couple of coal powerplant shutdown maintenance projects where workers were exposed to clouds of fly ash. (Cleaning out precipitators.) Some of the guys were hospitalized and diagnosed with arsenic poisoning. It turns out that coal contains inorganic arsenic compounds in low concentrations. But when the coal burns away, the arsenic (which has a higher combustion temperature) remains in the ash, making it quite toxic. These guys wore cheap paper masks which, of course, did nothing at all to protect them.
Yeah, paper masks are akin to tin foil hats protecting you against_ _ _ _ _ _ (name your poison).
It does help to keep germs contained to a point where the wearer goes out in public and sneezes or coughs, keeping those around them comfortable to the thought they are somehow protected from the spreading virus.
But truth is, they still escape when the wearer holds the mask tightly against their face to sneeze and escaping germs attach to the hands, the biggest spreader of germs, the human hand.

There's a reason doctors are constantly washing their hands.
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