Democrats still rigging elections?

Started by Cryptic Bert, May 15, 2018, 07:00:57 PM

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zewazir

Quote from: Solar on May 19, 2018, 09:11:05 AM
Your point? Nothing you said refuted any point I made, or were you just reiterating what I said in more detail?
Point one: No, the national committees do NOT have the final say in who can run for office in the primaries.
Proof: TEA has had multiple successes installing our candidates over the establishment picks. Tillemann does not HAVE to knuckle under to Hoyer.

Point two: The authority the national committees have is invested in their financial power.
The people also have control over that. ie: don't want the RNC to have too much power, don't contribute to them. DNC gets a significant portion of their financial backing from unions, which is why Citizens United was such an important decision in favor of the People's rights.

Point three: While the system has been undoubtedly corrupted, it is not the system itself at fault.
The People have allowed the current situation in which the party committees have undue influence over whom we are "allowed" to vote for. That does not mean the system itself is a bad system. Organizations formed for the purpose of promoting particular political interests are integral to a constitutional republic, which itself is based on representative authority. So when a particular agency uses their influence (most often in the form of financial support) to back one candidate over another, it is how the system is SUPPOSED to work.

Solar

Quote from: zewazir on May 19, 2018, 10:47:19 AM
Point one: No, the national committees do NOT have the final say in who can run for office in the primaries.
Proof: TEA has had multiple successes installing our candidates over the establishment picks. Tillemann does not HAVE to knuckle under to Hoyer.

Point two: The authority the national committees have is invested in their financial power.
The people also have control over that. ie: don't want the RNC to have too much power, don't contribute to them. DNC gets a significant portion of their financial backing from unions, which is why Citizens United was such an important decision in favor of the People's rights.

Point three: While the system has been undoubtedly corrupted, it is not the system itself at fault.
The People have allowed the current situation in which the party committees have undue influence over whom we are "allowed" to vote for. That does not mean the system itself is a bad system. Organizations formed for the purpose of promoting particular political interests are integral to a constitutional republic, which itself is based on representative authority. So when a particular agency uses their influence (most often in the form of financial support) to back one candidate over another, it is how the system is SUPPOSED to work.
Agree, I never stated otherwise.
My point was, regardless of what we want, once in office, they do as they please. I never said before, because we have say at County level who gets in the party.
We also have control after the fact as in a final say at the ballot box. My point is we've allowed the Establishment to corrupt the system and all within the law.
Our problem stems from many decades of abuse in allowing an entrenched culture of corruption and a way of life in DC.
We're making amazing headway in correcting this problem, in that the party fears the constituency, they colluded with the Dims in using the IRS to silence us, as evidenced by the sham hearings when they grilled Lerner and not one thing came of it.
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supsalemgr

Quote from: Solar on May 19, 2018, 11:05:08 AM
Agree, I never stated otherwise.
My point was, regardless of what we want, once in office, they do as they please. I never said before, because we have say at County level who gets in the party.
We also have control after the fact as in a final say at the ballot box. My point is we've allowed the Establishment to corrupt the system and all within the law.
Our problem stems from many decades of abuse in allowing an entrenched culture of corruption and a way of life in DC.
We're making amazing headway in correcting this problem, in that the party fears the constituency, they colluded with the Dims in using the IRS to silence us, as evidenced by the sham hearings when they grilled Lerner and not one thing came of it.

We owe some gratitude to Obama for awakening the sleeping giant called TEA. For decades GOPe had us fooled all the while they were in cahoots with the dems as they all padded their pockets. Then Trump comes along and blows up their little party from within DC. We just have to keep in mind it will take more time and diligence to fully drain the swamp.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

zewazir

Quote from: Solar on May 19, 2018, 11:05:08 AM
Agree, I never stated otherwise.
My point was, regardless of what we want, once in office, they do as they please. I never said before, because we have say at County level who gets in the party.
We also have control after the fact as in a final say at the ballot box. My point is we've allowed the Establishment to corrupt the system and all within the law.
Our problem stems from many decades of abuse in allowing an entrenched culture of corruption and a way of life in DC.
We're making amazing headway in correcting this problem, in that the party fears the constituency, they colluded with the Dims in using the IRS to silence us, as evidenced by the sham hearings when they grilled Lerner and not one thing came of it.
Then I misunderstood your previous post, in which you stated:
"I think the point Boo is making, is the party machine has the final say regardless of what the voting constituent wants." and "Sad, that we've all become so accustomed to party politics that we stopped having an issue with them quashing our voice under the guise of the First Amendment."

I don't think they do have the final say because we (TEA) have proven otherwise multiple times.  I do think a large portion of the populace is in the habit of ALLOWING them the final say, and both sides do everything they can to encourage such leanings. (though IMO the DNC side far more than the RNC side, due to the fact that progs tend to revere, even promote .gov authority way more than conservatives do.)

But, again, that is not the fault of the system itself - and it seems to me Boo has issues with the system itself, and not simply with how it has been corrupted.

Thus my responses.

zewazir

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 19, 2018, 11:43:09 AM
We owe some gratitude to Obama for awakening the sleeping giant called TEA. For decades GOPe had us fooled all the while they were in cahoots with the dems as they all padded their pockets. Then Trump comes along and blows up their little party from within DC. We just have to keep in mind it will take more time and diligence to fully drain the swamp.
Obama certainly did his part in getting TEA rolling.  But I believe the item that REALLY woke up conservatives to the shenanigans of the RNC playing the masses was the nomination of Senator John fracking MCCAIN. And THAT is the kernel around which the TEA movement was formed.

Talk about HANDING an election to the opposition! Not to mention, how many registered republicans, let alone independent conservatives, voted for that twerp in the primaries?  I certainly did not do so, nor any other conservative I know. Sure, many held their noses and pulled the lever for McCain in the general; but not so in the primaries. So how was that SOB foisted on us? IMO, it was not "merely" more legal corruption of the system, but rather outright ILLEGAL activities of the same sort that ousted Bernie from the DNC ticket in favor of Clintonista el femenino.

supsalemgr

Quote from: zewazir on May 19, 2018, 12:15:43 PM
Obama certainly did his part in getting TEA rolling.  But I believe the item that REALLY woke up conservatives to the shenanigans of the RNC playing the masses was the nomination of Senator John fracking MCCAIN. And THAT is the kernel around which the TEA movement was formed.

Talk about HANDING an election to the opposition! Not to mention, how many registered republicans, let alone independent conservatives, voted for that twerp in the primaries?  I certainly did not do so, nor any other conservative I know. Sure, many held their noses and pulled the lever for McCain in the general; but not so in the primaries. So how was that SOB foisted on us? IMO, it was not "merely" more legal corruption of the system, but rather outright ILLEGAL activities of the same sort that ousted Bernie from the DNC ticket in favor of Clintonista el femenino.

When McCain was nominated GOPe still had a majority of GOP voters convinced it was McCain's turn (remember Bob Dole in 1996?). Also, there was not really an opposition candidate to GOPe that stood out. When McCain selected Palin as his running mate GOPe got its first taste of opposition to them. Remember they started trying to destroy her before the election as she cared GOPe to death.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Solar

Quote from: zewazir on May 19, 2018, 12:02:25 PM
Then I misunderstood your previous post, in which you stated:
"I think the point Boo is making, is the party machine has the final say regardless of what the voting constituent wants." and "Sad, that we've all become so accustomed to party politics that we stopped having an issue with them quashing our voice under the guise of the First Amendment."

I don't think they do have the final say because we (TEA) have proven otherwise multiple times.  I do think a large portion of the populace is in the habit of ALLOWING them the final say, and both sides do everything they can to encourage such leanings. (though IMO the DNC side far more than the RNC side, due to the fact that progs tend to revere, even promote .gov authority way more than conservatives do.)

But, again, that is not the fault of the system itself - and it seems to me Boo has issues with the system itself, and not simply with how it has been corrupted.

Thus my responses.
I was referring to people like Allen West, where the GOP redistricted voting lines that literally removed him from office.
There was another race where TEA was destined to win and for no reason, the TEA candidate quietly walked away. This is what I'm talking about when I refer to a corrupt machine.
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Possum

Ask ol' bernie if he thinks the primaries are rigged. :lol: :lol:

Solar

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zewazir

Quote from: Solar on May 19, 2018, 01:07:21 PM
I was referring to people like Allen West, where the GOP redistricted voting lines that literally removed him from office.
There was another race where TEA was destined to win and for no reason, the TEA candidate quietly walked away. This is what I'm talking about when I refer to a corrupt machine.
Ahhh, now redistricting, along with state candidate filing requirements, qualifying restrictions for third party candidates, and all the other tricks the establishment uses to corrupt the election process, is a different topic under the same general heading. But neither the DNC nor RNC have authority to take part in those shenanigans. Those items come direct to us from the benevolent integrity of our elected officials.

Solar

Quote from: zewazir on May 19, 2018, 06:10:57 PM
Ahhh, now redistricting, along with state candidate filing requirements, qualifying restrictions for third party candidates, and all the other tricks the establishment uses to corrupt the election process, is a different topic under the same general heading. But neither the DNC nor RNC have authority to take part in those shenanigans. Those items come direct to us from the benevolent integrity of our elected officials.
Party politics at it's finest. There is no differentiation, they are all part of the Deepstate corruption Trump is taking down.
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taxed

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 18, 2018, 08:08:42 AM
What is ethically or morally wrong about supporting a political organization that shares your agenda?  Or don't you believe in freedom of speech?

Why would you post this?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

|Glitch|

#42
Quote from: taxed on May 20, 2018, 03:59:28 PM
Why would you post this?
Because freedom of speech was the heart of the landmark Supreme Court case Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 310 (2010).  Political contributions by PACs is free speech that is protected by the First Amendment.  If someone opposes PACs giving money to candidates, then they obviously do not believe in the freedom of speech.

taxed

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 20, 2018, 04:29:33 PM
Because freedom of speech was the heart of the landmark Supreme Court case Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 310 (2010).  Political contributions by PACs is free speech that is protected by the First Amendment.  If someone opposes PACs giving money to candidates, then they obviously do not believe in the freedom of speech.

Oh, I think you nailed it.  Boo HATES free speech.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: |Glitch| on May 18, 2018, 06:12:25 PM
I don't know what country you are referring to, but that has never been the way it works in the US.  Money has always been part of politics in the US, and it is neither unethical or immoral.  It is called free speech and free association, which has been protected by the US Constitution since at least 1791.

Yes it is.
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