Debating liberals

Started by taxed, June 11, 2019, 08:10:29 PM

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alienhand

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on June 12, 2019, 03:36:48 PM
Anybody who doesn't think America is great should be banned from it. You can't bite the hand that feeds you by using the freedoms of America to shit on it.

Thing is though if one is not allowed to question the tenets and ideas America is based upon (even if they turn out to be the most sound and most moral way to go) then how are we better then a two bit dictatorship in which one can be punished for even the slightest disagreement?  Under your thinking America is not just a country, an idea or a set of values we go by but becomes a civic religious cult. 

To me, part of what makes a country great is being able to ask questions and challenging its tenets of it without any fear of reprisal.  Any idea, any system should be open to question and challenge and any idea and system that is not open to question and challenge loses greatness points in my eyes even if the ideas turn out to be sound.

alienhand

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on June 12, 2019, 02:56:25 PM

Me:  YES America is the greatest country in the world.....I've been in about 30 other countries and beleive me....they suck, any who disagree with me should try living or working in one, preferably some 3rd world socialist hell hole for about a year ad whe they come to the realization how lucky they were to be born an American then they can join the debate with an informed opinion.

Which 30 countries and what sucked about them? 

Would you be willing to go into your experiences?

alienhand

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on June 12, 2019, 02:48:57 PM

Me:  "bad" is a MFkr like this:

http://www.hideoutnow.com/2019/04/illegal-immigrant-previously-deported-5.html

Or this:

http://www.kurv.com/illegal-border-crosser-found-with-molotov-cocktail/

I can understand the first one.  We definitely don't want him in.

On the second one it does look suspicious as though he was going to do something.  But, aren't we supposed to be for the 2nd amendment though?  Shouldn't Molotov cocktails not allowed to be prohibited under the 2nd amendment?    Still, I don't think it's a good idea to let him in either.

alienhand

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on June 12, 2019, 02:58:25 PM
Me:   Rape is a crime, ....So is Murder  (Abortion)  why compound one crime with another

NPC:  I'm willing to agree that abortion is murder and you're still dodging the question I'm asking.  If the woman does not want the baby and can't handle raising the baby what would be a be a better choice?  Are you for adoption?  Artificial wombs?  Surrogacy?

Sick Of Silence

Quote from: alienhand on June 12, 2019, 09:09:52 PM
Thing is though if one is not allowed to question the tenets and ideas America is based upon (even if they turn out to be the most sound and most moral way to go) then how are we better then a two bit dictatorship in which one can be punished for even the slightest disagreement?  Under your thinking America is not just a country, an idea or a set of values we go by but becomes a civic religious cult. 

To me, part of what makes a country great is being able to ask questions and challenging its tenets of it without any fear of reprisal.  Any idea, any system should be open to question and challenge and any idea and system that is not open to question and challenge loses greatness points in my eyes even if the ideas turn out to be sound.

America is better than any of these other countries. We give citizens Constitutional Freedom Of Speech rights. You don't abuse that right by talking bad about the country that gave you those rights. That's biting the hand that fed you. This is a great nation. We have bad citizens such as these Communists, Socialist, and anti-American Liberals trying to destroy our sovereignty. But we are a great nation.

If any of these Liberals (or you) can't accept that we are a great nation because we have Constitutional Freedoms that other foreign countries don't give their citizens, they don't deserve those Freedoms and should get the hell out. I am done being nice to the people who hate us real Americans.
With all these lawyers with cameras on the street i'm shocked we have so much crime in the world.

There is constitutional law and there is law and order. This challenge to law and order is always the start to loosing our constitutional rights.

Frauditors are a waste of life.

alienhand

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on June 12, 2019, 09:58:23 PM
America is better than any of these other countries. We give citizens Constitutional Freedom Of Speech rights. You don't abuse that right by talking bad about the country that gave you those rights. That's biting the hand that fed you. This is a great nation. We have bad citizens such as these Communists, Socialist, and anti-American Liberals trying to destroy our sovereignty. But we are a great nation.

If any of these Liberals (or you) can't accept that we are a great nation because we have Constitutional Freedoms that other foreign countries don't give their citizens, they don't deserve those Freedoms and should get the hell out. I am done being nice to the people who hate us real Americans.


a.  Well, I thought countries couldn't give rights.

b.  Questioning a country's tenets or values is not bad mouthing the country or anyone.

c.  One can mostly agree with a country's tenets and values  yet question as well to make sure one is really right.

d.  c is true b/c one doesn't know everything with absolute certainty.

e.  If one is not allowed to question the values and tenets of a country whether it is by gov't or social standards then is one truthfully free? 

f.  Truth, logic and reason are just as important as our constitutional freedoms.  To not question beyond certain bounds is to stifle one's reason.  To stifle one's reason is to not have the full truth.  To not have the full truth is to believe a possible lie. 

g.  So, if one can't question the standards and values of one's country b/c it is unamerican, liberal, communist, etc then is freedom not denied to seek truth even if the standards and values turn out to be true.  Does America become a civic religion instead of the beacon of light and freedom it was founded on? 

h.  Freedom and Truth must go hand in hand.  To deny the pursuit of truth is to lose and stifle one's freedom.

Sick Of Silence

Countries can take away rights. America's values include freedoms. You don't question good values. Only a Liberal does that because they lack values. You either agree with good values or you don't. We don't claim to know everything but we know good values. The ones that question it tend to be the ones who want to change or destroy it.
With all these lawyers with cameras on the street i'm shocked we have so much crime in the world.

There is constitutional law and there is law and order. This challenge to law and order is always the start to loosing our constitutional rights.

Frauditors are a waste of life.

alienhand

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on June 12, 2019, 11:54:15 PM
Countries can take away rights. America's values include freedoms. You don't question good values. Only a Liberal does that because they lack values. You either agree with good values or you don't. We don't claim to know everything but we know good values. The ones that question it tend to be the ones who want to change or destroy it.

I see.

alienhand

These are the things I think make a great society.

1.  Rationality

2.  Science

3.  One that allows and enables the individual to flourish no matter what abilities and disabilities he or she has.

4.  One that allows free flow of information and allows and actively encourages discussion and debate. 

5.  Compassionate as in if you are down others help to bring you up and they don't just fish for you but actually show you how to fish.  And, provide for those who can't WITHOUT forcing others to provide for others.

Billy's bayonet

Quote from: alienhand on June 12, 2019, 09:12:17 PM
Which 30 countries and what sucked about them? 

Would you be willing to go into your experiences?

Most of the countries were in Asia, A few In S. America and of course the big cast litter box, the Middle east.

I could go on for pages and pages about what sucked, and still only sratch the surface. Thats why I say one should experiece it first hand before trying to comment on it. And most tourists never have a clue, staying at a five star resort and going on guided tours is not experiece, you might as well stay home& read a travel broshure with all the pretty pictures.

I will give you a few generalities though.   

What sucks is political corruption, everything is bought and paid for by the most richest politicias who gets elected by buying votes or through the favor of the ruling party....Perhaps a King or Premier. And of course where does one find the capitol to finance all this vote buying ad election fraud?  Well through more ad more corruption. And there isn;t a damn thing you can do about it either.  Freedom of the Press? Haha....say the wrong thing ad you can get 1. Fired ad black listed....2.  Jailed.....3. Killed, Many countries are ruled by exteded families or clans who control things by a very powerful consortium of businesses  and finance systems.  Marriages are arranged to keep one clan in power over another. And these clans ad political parties they control are constantly at war with one another rather than strive for the general good, THEY CARE ABOUT STAYING I N POWER.

There is rampant prejudice, ethic, religious and racial discrimiation, class and caste systems, overt ad super secret.  Division and exclusion along political lines,

Here a interesting example and then I'll shut up. remember the Tsuami in 2004/2005?  True story, distributig releif supplies to ethic people who were devestated by the giant tidal wave that flattened their town, when this big shot politician shows up with cameras rolling ad talks about how HE is responsible for getting all these supplies here ad what a great thing HE is doing, then leaves, the news people lose interest and go away and o cue the the local Military commader (probably big shots cousin or something) ad begins "redistributig" supplies to army trucks. This stuff ended up in Mr Big Shots warehouse where he no doubt sold it on the black market.  Legalized theft....not a damn thing anybody can do about and no body cares

Just a side note, you think any of this sounds familiar./...like maybe whats happeing in OUR Country.....pretty soon we may start to suck as we get third worlded
Evil operates best when under a disguise

WHEN A CRIME GOES UNPUNISHED THE WORLD IS UNBALANCED

WHEN A WRONG IS UNAVENGED THE HEAVENS LOOK DOWN ON US IN SHAME

IMPEACH BIDEN

Billy's bayonet

Quote from: alienhand on June 12, 2019, 09:21:05 PM
I can understand the first one.  We definitely don't want him in.

On the second one it does look suspicious as though he was going to do something.  But, aren't we supposed to be for the 2nd amendment though?  Shouldn't Molotov cocktails not allowed to be prohibited under the 2nd amendment?    Still, I don't think it's a good idea to let him in either.


Oh come on....A illegal alien sneaks ito our country with Gang Tats all over his body with a FKG BOMB ad you think that should be protected by the 2d amed?
Evil operates best when under a disguise

WHEN A CRIME GOES UNPUNISHED THE WORLD IS UNBALANCED

WHEN A WRONG IS UNAVENGED THE HEAVENS LOOK DOWN ON US IN SHAME

IMPEACH BIDEN

Solar

Quote from: alienhand on June 12, 2019, 09:21:05 PM
I can understand the first one.  We definitely don't want him in.

On the second one it does look suspicious as though he was going to do something.  But, aren't we supposed to be for the 2nd amendment though?  Shouldn't Molotov cocktails not allowed to be prohibited under the 2nd amendment?    Still, I don't think it's a good idea to let him in either.
Weapons of mass destruction are not protected under the 2nd, neither are weapons that can maim multiple people, as in grenades, Molotov cocktails and bombs.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

alienhand

Quote from: Solar on June 13, 2019, 08:20:43 PM
Weapons of mass destruction are not protected under the 2nd, neither are weapons that can maim multiple people, as in grenades, Molotov cocktails and bombs.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

alienhand

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on June 13, 2019, 05:49:22 PM

Oh come on....A illegal alien sneaks ito our country with Gang Tats all over his body with a FKG BOMB ad you think that should be protected by the 2d amed?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I totally agree with you!

alienhand

#29
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on June 13, 2019, 05:47:18 PM
Most of the countries were in Asia, A few In S. America and of course the big cast litter box, the Middle east.

I could go on for pages and pages about what sucked, and still only sratch the surface. Thats why I say one should experiece it first hand before trying to comment on it. And most tourists never have a clue, staying at a five star resort and going on guided tours is not experiece, you might as well stay home& read a travel broshure with all the pretty pictures.

I will give you a few generalities though.   

What sucks is political corruption, everything is bought and paid for by the most richest politicias who gets elected by buying votes or through the favor of the ruling party....Perhaps a King or Premier. And of course where does one find the capitol to finance all this vote buying ad election fraud?  Well through more ad more corruption. And there isn;t a damn thing you can do about it either.  Freedom of the Press? Haha....say the wrong thing ad you can get 1. Fired ad black listed....2.  Jailed.....3. Killed, Many countries are ruled by exteded families or clans who control things by a very powerful consortium of businesses  and finance systems.  Marriages are arranged to keep one clan in power over another. And these clans ad political parties they control are constantly at war with one another rather than strive for the general good, THEY CARE ABOUT STAYING I N POWER.

There is rampant prejudice, ethic, religious and racial discrimiation, class and caste systems, overt ad super secret.  Division and exclusion along political lines,

Here a interesting example and then I'll shut up. remember the Tsuami in 2004/2005?  True story, distributig releif supplies to ethic people who were devestated by the giant tidal wave that flattened their town, when this big shot politician shows up with cameras rolling ad talks about how HE is responsible for getting all these supplies here ad what a great thing HE is doing, then leaves, the news people lose interest and go away and o cue the the local Military commader (probably big shots cousin or something) ad begins "redistributig" supplies to army trucks. This stuff ended up in Mr Big Shots warehouse where he no doubt sold it on the black market.  Legalized theft....not a damn thing anybody can do about and no body cares

Just a side note, you think any of this sounds familiar./...like maybe whats happeing in OUR Country.....pretty soon we may start to suck as we get third worlded

I see.

And, this is what I like seeing.  Instead of using bumper sticker slogans which mean nothing to me you're giving specific and concrete examples.  This puts things into perspective.  I can sort of see why the founders wanted to limit gov't and what it can do.