Debate Night

Started by Solar, February 06, 2016, 06:08:51 PM

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walkstall

Quote from: Solar on February 07, 2016, 12:35:41 PM
That's how I saw it as well, Christie and Rubot are vying for the same base, both are solid RINO, and neither have a record to run on.
Funny thing is, neither have a shot at the WH, but the Establishment would happily back either one, though at this point their money is on the rookie from Florida.

There both very controllable RINO's by the RINO GOP and Dems.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Dubinsky

Quote from: Solar on February 07, 2016, 12:35:41 PM
That's how I saw it as well, Christie and Rubot are vying for the same base, both are solid RINO, and neither have a record to run on.
Funny thing is, neither have a shot at the WH, but the Establishment would happily back either one, though at this point their money is on the rookie from Florida.

Christie came in handy.  He was the "useful idiot" in the debate. :laugh:

Solar

Quote from: Cruzman on February 07, 2016, 12:41:09 PM
Christie came in handy.  He was the "useful idiot" in the debate. :laugh:
Vying for Kasucks spot as Bush's clingon butt buddy.
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supsalemgr

Quote from: Solar on February 07, 2016, 12:35:41 PM
That's how I saw it as well, Christie and Rubot are vying for the same base, both are solid RINO, and neither have a record to run on.
Funny thing is, neither have a shot at the WH, but the Establishment would happily back either one, though at this point their money is on the rookie from Florida.

Where does GOPe go if Rubio flames out? By the time it happens the RINO ex-governors will be long gone. Carson and Fiorina will also be gone.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Billy's bayonet

I tuned in the debate late, saw about 40 mins or so and I'm ashamed to admit just as they were done and ready for summations, I nodded off to sleep, My take on it was that the ABC clowns were ignoring Cruz, every question seemed to be Rubio this, that or something else. Then Trump, Then Jeb, then that Buffoon Kasich who I get so tired of talking about how great he did in Ohio in 1979 or something,  I saw Jeb and Trump go at it over imminent domain, funny. Glad when Trump got boo'ed. 
Evil operates best when under a disguise

WHEN A CRIME GOES UNPUNISHED THE WORLD IS UNBALANCED

WHEN A WRONG IS UNAVENGED THE HEAVENS LOOK DOWN ON US IN SHAME

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Solar

Quote from: supsalemgr on February 07, 2016, 12:47:31 PM
Where does GOPe go if Rubio flames out? By the time it happens the RINO ex-governors will be long gone. Carson and Fiorina will also be gone.
I really thought they'd keep Fiorina alive as back up, but it looks like they'r all in for the Rubot and Christie knows it and is doing his best to knock him out.
After last night, Rubot might fall hard in the polls, giving Chrusty false hope. :biggrin:
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Dubinsky

Quote from: supsalemgr on February 07, 2016, 12:47:31 PM
Where does GOPe go if Rubio flames out? By the time it happens the RINO ex-governors will be long gone. Carson and Fiorina will also be gone.

If Jeb beats Rubio the RINO establishment will start backing Jebby again.

Dubinsky

Quote from: Solar on February 07, 2016, 12:51:04 PM
I really thought they'd keep Fiorina alive as back up, but it looks like they'r all in for the Rubot and Christie knows it and is doing his best to knock him out.
After last night, Rubot might fall hard in the polls, giving Chrusty false hope. :biggrin:

Same show, different character.


Solar

Here's how the libs saw it at 538.

CANDIDATE   AVERAGE GRADE   HIGH GRADE   LOW GRADE
Chris Christie   A-                                    A                  B+
Jeb Bush           B+                               A-                   B
John Kasich   B                                    A-                   C
Donald Trump   C+                                    B                  C-
Ted Cruz      C+                                     B                    C-
Marco Rubio   C-                                    B                  D+
Ben Carson   C-                                    B-                  F   

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/we-thought-marco-rubio-lost-the-debate-but-new-hampshire-might-think-differently/
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Cali Contrarian

#39
My take, best to worst:

1. Cruz -- Unheralded, but I thought it was his best debate so far. Too bad he was mostly ignored in the 2nd half.
2. Rubio -- The "Rubio choked" narrative is completely unfounded. I could give several reasons why he did well, but for one, his statement about Obama is substantially correct.
3. Bush -- Also his best debate to date.
4. Carson -- His typical mediocrity. He has the best answers on health care though. Too bad he has so much trouble articulating his position -- he's on the right path.
5. Kasich -- Only because Trump and Christie were also in the debate.
6. Trump -- Actually gave a couple of good responses, despite getting embarrassed in the exchange with Bush over eminent domain.
7. Christie -- The Teflon debater. How is this guy never criticized for the constant stream of absurdities, banalities, lies, and outlandish nonsense he spews out every debate? He seems to have a Rasputin-like mind control power over media "analysts" both left and right. The instances are numerous, but just one, that has scarcely been mentioned -- he characterized abortion as an act of "self-defense" against rape. That's normal discourse for Christie, when he's willing to take any position at all, and he's never called on it. Never.


keyboarder

Quote from: Solar on February 07, 2016, 09:30:21 AM
The more I see Rubio, the more I see a kid without control of his emotions. He strikes me as someone that would react without consequence, someone that could easily start WWIII because of uncontrolled petulance.
He just isn't ready for such responsibility.
Cruz on the other hand is far more reserved by his values and core principles in comparison.

He dang sure ought to know what his values are, he tried every way he could with that gang of eight to show us what his values are.  Sorry, I just can't visualize him as having any worthy conservative principles and that opinion started when I heard him speak at the Rep Convention when he was guest speaker for Romney.  He always talks about his father and how he worked as a bartender in the states and on and on.  Anyway, by the end of that speech I was scratching my head.  This was in no way what i would have expected him to say when he was talking about citizenship and whatever path he would like to see for illegals.  I was thinking that the Romney campaign should have at least picked someone for speaker that wasn't moderate (liberal).  Just got a bad taste in my mouth after that speech and then the gang of eight.  Rubio the RINO!  I'll pass.
.If you want to lead the orchestra, you must turn your back to the crowd      Forbes

taxed

Quote from: Cali Contrarian on February 07, 2016, 08:06:20 PM
My take, best to worst:

1. Cruz -- Unheralded, but I thought it was his best debate so far. Too bad he was mostly ignored in the 2nd half.
2. Rubio -- The "Rubio choked" narrative is completely unfounded. I could give several reasons why he did well, but for one, his statement about Obama is substantially correct.
3. Bush -- Also his best debate to date.
4. Carson -- His typical mediocrity.
5. Kasich -- Only because Trump and Christie were also in the debate.
6. Trump -- Actually gave a couple of good responses, despite getting embarrassed in the exchange with Bush over eminent domain.
7. Christie -- The Teflon debater. How is this guy never criticized for the constant stream of absurdities, banalities, lies, and outlandish nonsense he spews out every debate? He seems to have a Rasputin-like mind control power over media "analysts" both left and right. The instances are numerous, but just one, that has scarcely been mentioned -- he characterized abortion as an act of "self-defense" against rape. That's normal discourse for Christie, when he's willing to take any position at all, and he's never called on it. Never.

Do tell!  I am curious to here what you have to say.  It was obvious to me that he got caught, and just went to his place that he could cling onto, which was about Hussein.  He choked pretty bad.  Actually, I think he choked way worse than Rick Perry that one debate.
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Cali Contrarian

Quote from: taxed on February 07, 2016, 08:12:14 PM
Do tell!  I am curious to here what you have to say.  It was obvious to me that he got caught, and just went to his place that he could cling onto, which was about Hussein.  He choked pretty bad.  Actually, I think he choked way worse than Rick Perry that one debate.

Because Christie was way out of line. Rubio doesn't have to make concessions for the sake of Chris Christie's preferences. 90% of the debate responses you hear are mostly pre-packaged bits. It isn't just Rubio. Christie is the worst offender. At least when Rubio gives his set piece, he usually has something to say. Contrast his point about Obama with Christie's typical intrusion into the debate -- "all of that egg-headed policy stuff is what senators talk about, but governors do stuff!" I mean, how inane can you get? Just because you can't follow the conversation, Chris, doesn't mean I can't. Christie is as much an ass and a bore as Trump.

The criticism is way overblown. That's all. Besides, the rest of the debate he was his usual effective self. He has a number of positions I don't agree with, but he makes some good points as well.

taxed

Quote from: Cali Contrarian on February 07, 2016, 08:26:45 PM
Because Christie was way out of line. Rubio doesn't have to make concessions for the sake of Chris Christie's preferences. 90% of the debate responses you hear are mostly pre-packaged bits. It isn't just Rubio. Christie is the worst offender. At least when Rubio gives his set piece, he usually has something to say. Contrast his point about Obama with Christie's typical intrusion into the debate -- "all of that egg-headed policy stuff is what senators talk about, but governors do stuff!" I mean, how inane can you get? Just because you can't follow the conversation, Chris, doesn't mean I can't. Christie is as much an ass and a bore as Trump.

The criticism is way overblown. That's all. Besides, the rest of the debate he was his usual effective self. He has a number of positions I don't agree with, but he makes some good points as well.

I agree with everything you said, except I'd give more credit to Christie's timing and political attack.  He gave doubt, or at least material to others, that if he can't handle Christie, how's he going to handle Putin or Hillary?  For me, I used to think he had the intellectual chops, but I think after last night, I'm not so sure.  It's hard getting caught like that.  He went into spin-cycle mode like a good little droid, but. he's been outed.  I think that was a Rick Perry moment for him.  His responses were ladled with self-doubt.  It was sad to watch.


#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Cali Contrarian

Quote from: taxed on February 07, 2016, 08:37:05 PM
I agree with everything you said, except I'd give more credit to Christie's timing and political attack.  He gave doubt, or at least material to others, that if he can't handle Christie, how's he going to handle Putin or Hillary?  For me, I used to think he had the intellectual chops, but I think after last night, I'm not so sure.  It's hard getting caught like that.  He went into spin-cycle mode like a good little droid, but. he's been outed.  I think that was a Rick Perry moment for him.  His responses were ladled with self-doubt.  It was sad to watch.




Well, almost all of the debate analysis agrees with you, so I won't say there isn't anything to it. I'd just like to see the analysts do more analysis on their own, and less knee-jerk bandwagon consensus.

I think primarily, Rubio gave the response that he did because he didn't want to concede the point, and he had no idea it was going to be perceived the way it has been. He was repeating the point, because if Christie didn't get it, maybe the viewers didn't either, and it was a main thematic point he wanted to make for the debate. I don't draw the conclusion that he can't think on his feet, because I've seen him do it.

I do believe Rubio's momentum has been checked. A lot of factors at play there, not just this incident. I don't see the Rick Perry comparison at all. This may hurt Rubio short term, but I don't think it establishes any unshakable impression in the eyes of the public.