D Day

Started by supsalemgr, June 06, 2014, 12:33:53 PM

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Harry

Quote from: Solar on June 10, 2014, 10:08:51 AM
True story. I dated this girl about 40 years ago, she introduced me to her parents, Russian immigrants.
They were hardcore Dims, while watching TV, there was a program about the Apollo space program showing astronauts training for weightlessness in a 747.
He actually screamed "USA stole that technology from Russia".
I asked what tech was that? He said the anti-gravity machine. I explained there is no such tech, that they are training in a 747.
He said, "Bull Sheeet"!  :rolleyes:

Typical lib.....

On a similar note, they use warp drive on a daily basis. Or perhaps, I should say warped mind...

Solar

Quote from: Harry on June 10, 2014, 10:12:21 AM
On a similar note, they use warp drive on a daily basis. Or perhaps, I should say warped mind...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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quiller

Quote from: Solar on June 10, 2014, 10:08:51 AM
True story. I dated this girl about 40 years ago, she introduced me to her parents, Russian immigrants.
They were hardcore Dims, while watching TV, there was a program about the Apollo space program showing astronauts training for weightlessness in a 747.
He actually screamed "USA stole that technology from Russia".
I asked what tech was that? He said the anti-gravity machine. I explained there is no such tech, that they are training in a 747.
He said, "Bull Sheeet"!  :rolleyes:

Typical lib.....

The Reds used monkeys as astronauts in their early days. I mentioned that to a Polish immigrant I knew at the time, and he insisted it was actually a Soviet. "They look so much alike!"

mdgiles

Quote from: quiller on June 10, 2014, 10:31:57 AM
The Reds used monkeys as astronauts in their early days. I mentioned that to a Polish immigrant I knew at the time, and he insisted it was actually a Soviet. "They look so much alike!"
Nope they just claimed they were using monkeys, so when the vehicle burned up on reentry they wouldn't be embarrassed. As I understand it, they lost a couple of cosmonauts, before they got it right with Gagarin.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

kalash

World War II: The Unknown War
http://www.opednews.com/articles/World-War-II-The-Unknown-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Oil_Propaganda_Putin_Russia-140609-762.html
"...In my June 6 article, I said, following the consensus of historians, that Nazi Germany lost the war at Stalingrad. In this article: historian Dr. Jacques R. Pauwels says that Germany lost the war 14 months earlier at the Battle of Moscow in December 1941. He makes a good case. Whether one agrees or not, the facts he presents are eye openers for the "exceptional, indispensable Americans" who believe nothing happens without them.

Normandy, June 1944, is 2.5 years after Germany lost the war in the Battle of Moscow. As historians have made clear, by June 1944 Germany had little left with which to fight. Whatever was left of the German military was on the Eastern Front..."

TboneAgain

Quote from: kalash on June 10, 2014, 08:45:27 PM
World War II: The Unknown War
http://www.opednews.com/articles/World-War-II-The-Unknown-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Oil_Propaganda_Putin_Russia-140609-762.html
"...In my June 6 article, I said, following the consensus of historians, that Nazi Germany lost the war at Stalingrad. In this article: historian Dr. Jacques R. Pauwels says that Germany lost the war 14 months earlier at the Battle of Moscow in December 1941. He makes a good case. Whether one agrees or not, the facts he presents are eye openers for the "exceptional, indispensable Americans" who believe nothing happens without them.

Normandy, June 1944, is 2.5 years after Germany lost the war in the Battle of Moscow. As historians have made clear, by June 1944 Germany had little left with which to fight. Whatever was left of the German military was on the Eastern Front..."

Germany lost the war the moment the first Wehrmacht troops entered Russia. I don't think you'll find a lot of folks to argue that point, and I'm not one. I've made that exact point a number of times elsewhere on this board. When Hitler signed off on Barbarossa, he signed his own death warrant, and that of Nazi Germany.

Arguing that the American -- or British or French, for that matter -- contribution to the Soviet war effort was inconsequential is petty. It's a safe position here in 2014. Where were you seventy years ago?

In 1944 the Germans were fighting for their lives against ever-growing armies of the Soviet Union, and they were losing ground. But they still held the entirety of western Europe, excepting England, neutral Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, and Sweden, and the tiny toehold the Allies were clinging to on the Italian peninsula. They controlled all of France, Belgium, Austria, Norway, Holland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, Denmark, Luxembourg, Yugoslavia, Rumania, etc. German U-boats were still sinking an astounding amount of shipping in the Atlantic. German  buzz-bombs were raining down on London and other English targets daily. Luftwaffe squadrons were being introduced to the Me-262, the world's first operational jet fighter, which had a 100 mph advantage over the best the Allies had. The new V-2, the world's first operational ballistic missile, with a 2,200 pound Amatol warhead and an impact speed of over Mach 2, was being prepared for launch.

The first fighting Soviet man didn't set foot on German soil until well into 1945.

It's one thing to claim that it was "all over but the shouting" by June 1944. It's quite another to be in the shouting match.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Akubra


TboneAgain wrote
QuoteLuftwaffe squadrons were being introduced to the Me-262, the world's first operational jet fighter, which had a 100 mph advantage over the best the Allies had.

Dont forget the Gloster Meteor..

QuoteThe Gloster Meteor entered service just after the Messerschmitt Me 262. In July 1944 the experimental unit Erprobungskommando 262 (Test Command 262) began to fly experimental interceptions of high flying Allied reconnaissance aircraft. On 25 July one of their Me 262s clashed with a RAF Mosquito, which escaped, allowing its crew to report their first encounter with a German jet. The first operational sortie of the Gloster Meteor came two days later, on 27 July.

The Gloster Meteor can claim to be the first jet fighter to enter operational service, while No.616 squadron of the RAF was the first operational jet fighter in the work. The first fully operational Me 262 squadron, Kommando Nowotny, was not formed until September 1944, under the command of the famous ace Walter Nowotny, flying its first operation on 3 October.

The Me 262 was a more capable aircraft than the wartime versions of the Meteor. Its top speed of 540mph was 50mphs faster than even the Derwent IV equipped version of the Meteor III. However by the end of the war the Meteor IV was almost ready, and had the speed to match the German jet. On the plus side the Meteor was much more reliable than the Me 262, which suffered from famously unreliable engines.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_gloster_meteor_WWII.html

SVPete

Quote from: kalash on June 10, 2014, 08:45:27 PM
World War II: The Unknown War
http://www.opednews.com/articles/World-War-II-The-Unknown-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Oil_Propaganda_Putin_Russia-140609-762.html
"Normandy, June 1944, is 2.5 years after Germany lost the war in the Battle of Moscow. As historians have made clear, by June 1944 Germany had little left with which to fight. Whatever was left of the German military was on the Eastern Front..."

Ummmm ... yeah. In a word. nonsense!

As this indicates, there were 3 infantry, and 1 panzer divisions just in Normandy. Along the French and Netherlands coast Rommel had two Armies, with 3 panzer divisions (the Wikipedia article does not day how many infantry divisions, but a guesstimate of 6-9 infantry divisions seems reasonable, maybe even a bit low). And as the article indicates, there were 3 more panzer divisions further back in France under Geyr, and a further 4 panzer divisions in strategic reserve, under Hitler's direct control; again the corresponding number of reserve infantry divisions is not mentioned.

While it might be argued that these were depleted/skeleton divisions, that argument doesn't work, because the same was true of divisions on the Eastern Front.

The US Third Army did not enter France on D-Day, but their After Action Report report claimed:

QuoteThird Army After Action reports state that the Third Army captured 765,483 prisoners of war, with an additional 515,205 of the enemy already held in corps and divisional level POW cages processed between 9 May and 13 May 1945, for a total of 1,280,688 POWs, and that, additionally, Third Army forces killed 144,500 enemy soldiers and wounded 386,200, for a total of 1,811,388 in enemy losses.[3] Fuller's review of Third Army records differs only in the number of enemy killed and wounded, stating that between 1 August 1944 and 9 May 1945, 47,500 of the enemy were killed, 115,700 wounded, and 1,280,688 captured. Fuller's combined total of enemy losses is 1,443,888 enemy killed, wounded, or captured by the Third Army.[4] The Third Army suffered 16,596 killed, 96,241 wounded, and 26,809 missing in action for a total of 139,646 casualties.[5]

That's a Hades of a lot of, "little left with which to fight"! And that doesn't include stats for the US First, Ninth, and Seventh Armies, also in France and the Low Countries. Put those together and that might make 3M-4M "little left with which to fight"! The "little left with which to fight" claim is not oversimplification or hyperbole, it's ludicrous agenda-driven nonsense!
SVPete

Envy is Greed's bigger, more evil, twin.

Those who can, do.
Those who know, teach.
Ignorant incapables, regulate.

TboneAgain

Quote from: Akubra on June 15, 2014, 03:27:34 AM
TboneAgain wrote
Dont forget the Gloster Meteor..
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_gloster_meteor_WWII.html

During the Second World War, the Meteor was indeed forgettable. It was indeed the first Allied jet fighter, and came into service around the same time as the Messerschmitt counterpart, but it was considered such an "important" development that it was never permitted to fly over enemy territory. All its "kills" were planes sitting on the ground, and there were pitifully few of those. The Meteor was 50 mph slower than the Me262, and it may be best that they never tangled.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

mdgiles

Quote from: kalash on June 10, 2014, 08:45:27 PM
World War II: The Unknown War
http://www.opednews.com/articles/World-War-II-The-Unknown-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Oil_Propaganda_Putin_Russia-140609-762.html
"...In my June 6 article, I said, following the consensus of historians, that Nazi Germany lost the war at Stalingrad. In this article: historian Dr. Jacques R. Pauwels says that Germany lost the war 14 months earlier at the Battle of Moscow in December 1941. He makes a good case. Whether one agrees or not, the facts he presents are eye openers for the "exceptional, indispensable Americans" who believe nothing happens without them.

Normandy, June 1944, is 2.5 years after Germany lost the war in the Battle of Moscow. As historians have made clear, by June 1944 Germany had little left with which to fight. Whatever was left of the German military was on the Eastern Front..."
And if Great Britain, had made a separate peace with Nazi Germany and if Hitler had had enough sense NOT to declare war on the US.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

quiller

Quote from: mdgiles on June 16, 2014, 08:32:48 AM
And if Great Britain, had made a separate peace with Nazi Germany and if Hitler had had enough sense NOT to declare war on the US.
We would still have gone to war after Pearl Harbor and drawn into the European theater due to the Axis alliance.

It certainly didn't hurt that the Huns ran out of fuel after losing the oil fields in Silesia.

TboneAgain

Quote from: quiller on June 16, 2014, 09:20:17 AM
We would still have gone to war after Pearl Harbor and drawn into the European theater due to the Axis alliance.

It certainly didn't hurt that the Huns ran out of fuel after losing the oil fields in Silesia.

That was unfortunate for the Germans, but I think what iced the cake was the series of Allied bombings of synthetic petroleum facilities, especially the hydrogenation and refinery installations at Ploesti.

Even before the war, Germany had to import most of its oil, but by the mid-1930s had helped to establish the most modern and productive synthesizing facilities in the world. By 1943, Germany (and its Romanian ally) was making something like 36,000,000 barrels of oil per year out of coal.

Good article on the subject here.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Solar

Quote from: TboneAgain on June 16, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
That was unfortunate for the Germans, but I think what iced the cake was the series of Allied bombings of synthetic petroleum facilities, especially the hydrogenation and refinery installations at Ploesti.

Even before the war, Germany had to import most of its oil, but by the mid-1930s had helped to establish the most modern and productive synthesizing facilities in the world. By 1943, Germany (and its Romanian ally) was making something like 36,000,000 barrels of oil per year out of coal.

Good article on the subject here.
Coal? Those evil bastards! :biggrin:
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TboneAgain

Quote from: Solar on June 16, 2014, 11:52:53 AM
Coal? Those evil bastards! :biggrin:

Carbon Di. Ox. Ide.  :tounge:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

mdgiles

Quote from: quiller on June 16, 2014, 09:20:17 AM
We would still have gone to war after Pearl Harbor and drawn into the European theater due to the Axis alliance.

It certainly didn't hurt that the Huns ran out of fuel after losing the oil fields in Silesia.
Nope the Axis alliance only worked if one of the members was attacked. Since Japan attacked the US. Germany was under no obligation to declare war. Hitler declared war, in the hop that Japan would declare war on the USSR. He wasn't aware of the ass kicking that the Japanese had taken from the Soviets in Mongolia.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!