I like Christie and I dont think what he wants from the unions and public employees is asking too much. I feel its relatively fair what hes asking them to give back.  The gov of wis is a totally different ballgame...he thinks hes a god like arpad. Someone needs to slap him around and show everyone what he is really made of...toiletpaper.
   
     I paid half of my pension costs for 27 yrs the city put in the other half, mine was not free and Im told by my son in law that in jersey its the same he pays half the city pays the other half but in jersey the city hasnt paid their half since the 80s when christie whitman intentionally destroyed the pension system...now I know mutts like arpad get all excited over that like they just used their vacuum therapy, but half that money she stole was the employees.
     

So tell me Zip, who should pay, where will the money that no longer exists come from?
Should the tax payer in other States bail them out?

Put yourself in his position, he wants them to come back to the bargaining table and discuss a new package, but they would rather protest and take a sick day and drag kids from school with them to protests.
They are giving him no other option, readjust their pay package, or hit the road, the money simply isn't there.

Quote from: zip on February 24, 2011, 03:49:52 AM
     I like Christie and I dont think what he wants from the unions and public employees is asking too much. I feel its relatively fair what hes asking them to give back.  The gov of wis is a totally different ballgame...he thinks hes a god like arpad. Someone needs to slap him around and show everyone what he is really made of...toiletpaper.
   
     I paid half of my pension costs for 27 yrs the city put in the other half, mine was not free and Im told by my son in law that in jersey its the same he pays half the city pays the other half but in jersey the city hasnt paid their half since the 80s when christie whitman intentionally destroyed the pension system...now I know mutts like arpad get all excited over that like they just used their vacuum therapy, but half that money she stole was the employees.
     

Zip, the "city" doesn't pay any.  It steals from it's citizens and residents and gives to you.  Please don't confuse this.

Quote from: zip on February 24, 2011, 03:49:52 AM
     I like Christie and I dont think what he wants from the unions and public employees is asking too much. I feel its relatively fair what hes asking them to give back.

Zip, Christie is after almost exactly the same things Walker wants in Wisconsin, and the effects of Christie's plans will be largely the same. Christie wants things like merit-based teacher pay, which is certainly a teachers' union "third-rail" issue. He also wants state employees who opt out of union representation to be relieved of the requirement to pay "representation fees" equivalent to 85% of what union members pay in dues (something normal people call "stealing"). These and other Christie policies have earned him the undying hatred of Jersey's public unions, especially those representing teachers.

QuoteThe gov of wis is a totally different ballgame...he thinks hes a god like arpad. Someone needs to slap him around and show everyone what he is really made of...toiletpaper.

Ah, the warm liberal glow of "reduced political vitriol." Makes me want to go kick the dog and punch the little woman.
   

QuoteI paid half of my pension costs for 27 yrs the city put in the other half, mine was not free and Im told by my son in law that in jersey its the same he pays half the city pays the other half....

As taxed has already correctly pointed out, "the city" merely collected the money for half your pension contributions -- and your son's -- from the people who happen to live and/or work there. This is called "taxation," the appropriation of private wealth by the state under threat of force. In private enterprise, where taxation and other forms of larceny are not legal, employers consider the entire cost of an employee's retirement plan -- no matter who "pays" for it -- as part of that employee's "wage package," the REAL cost of hiring someone.

Quote....but in jersey the city hasnt paid their half since the 80s when christie whitman intentionally destroyed the pension system...now I know mutts like arpad get all excited over that like they just used their vacuum therapy, but half that money she stole was the employees.

Jesus, zip, Christine Whitman didn't become NJ's governor until 1994. Her claim to fame had NOTHING to do with pensions -- she cut the state income tax by 10% a year, three years in a row. Those of limited mental capacity blamed her for later "shortfalls" in a variety of state programs, when in fact it was NJ state legislators who failed to reduce spending to match reduced income tax revenues.

If you're gonna bay at the moon, try looking UP..... UP.....

Quote from: zip on February 24, 2011, 03:49:52 AM
     I like Christie and I dont think what he wants from the unions and public employees is asking too much. I feel its relatively fair what hes asking them to give back.  The gov of wis is a totally different ballgame...he thinks hes a god like arpad. Someone needs to slap him around and show everyone what he is really made of...toiletpaper.

You think I'm a god zip? Gee, thanks. If only I had some regard for your opinion but I don't.

Now, are you threatening me or are you threatening the governor of Wisconsin? The only reason I ask is I'm pretty sure the governor of Wisconsin doesn't read conservativepoliticalforum.com so he might not know. If it's me you're threatening then kiss my hairy ass you snot-nosed punk.

I think that kind of makes my feelings clear, doesn't it?

Of course you don't read my posts so your feelings won't be hurt.

Quote
     I paid half of my pension costs for 27 yrs the city put in the other half, mine was not free and Im told by my son in law that in jersey its the same he pays half the city pays the other half but in jersey the city hasnt paid their half since the 80s when christie whitman intentionally destroyed the pension system...now I know mutts like arpad get all excited over that like they just used their vacuum therapy, but half that money she stole was the employees.

Yeah, and there are government employees in California who blame Prop 13, the property tax cap, for the state's fiscal woes. If only taxes could be raised with limit then there wouldn't be any problem. Well, there's a problem and that problem's that there's not enough money in the whole frickin' world to fund the limitless demands of the greedy when they've got the scent of other people's money in their nostrils.

A couple of the unions are now coming to the realization that they don't hold all the high cards any more and they're willing to compromise.

Big effin' deal.

They could have made their offers two years ago when the fiscal disaster was already clear but they chose to lobby for the so-called stimulus that we now know was nothing but a pay-off to the government unions. Now that that money's run out it's a little late to try to cut a deal so those unions will take what they get.

Jesus, zip, Christine Whitman didn't become NJ's governor until 1994. Her claim to fame had NOTHING to do with pensions -- she cut the state income tax by 10% a year, three years in a row. Those of limited mental capacity blamed her for later "shortfalls" in a variety of state programs, when in fact it was NJ state legislators who failed to reduce spending to match reduced income tax revenues.

If you're gonna bay at the moon, try looking UP..... UP.....

   You dont know what your talking about...and YOU LOOK IT UP

     Christie whitman stopped funding HER HALF of the NJ pension system...it has been followed through by every governor since she stated it...and the govt has NOT PAID 3.5 billion into the pension system while the employees continued to pay their half of the 7 billion...in 1994 New Jersey had the richest pension system in the world with a huge surplus...whitman single handedly caused its destruction by design...

Quote from: Solar on February 24, 2011, 05:30:29 AM
So tell me Zip, who should pay, where will the money that no longer exists come from?
Should the tax payer in other States bail them out?

Put yourself in his position, he wants them to come back to the bargaining table and discuss a new package, but they would rather protest and take a sick day and drag kids from school with them to protests.
They are giving him no other option, readjust their pay package, or hit the road, the money simply isn't there.

    I said the cuts christie wants are not unreasonable...I mean come on here im agreeing with you...but NJ only has a pension problem because christie whitman allowed munincipalities and the state to not pay 3.5 billion while the employees kept paying their half.

   Solar I always expect HONESTY out of you unlike some others on here...you were always honest on LNF and I saw you many times concede a point...and I grew to respect you for that...and thats why I have zero respect for the arpads..

    California and New Jersey are not broke because of govt workers and you know that...do they add to the problem yes...but this isnt about debt....this is about the rich using reverse class warfare because they know govt unions endorse democrats and they want govt employee pay forced down so they dont have to pay in the private sector more so the pigs at the trough can get instead of a pitiful 20 million dollar bonus they can get a 30....thats what this attack is all about.

    New jersey piss's away billions that they could cut and have no budget problems whatsover...so could wisc but thats not the real reason for this attack on the working class...

Quote from: zip on February 25, 2011, 07:04:14 AM
    I said the cuts christie wants are not unreasonable...I mean come on here im agreeing with you...but NJ only has a pension problem because christie whitman allowed munincipalities and the state to not pay 3.5 billion while the employees kept paying their half.

   Solar I always expect HONESTY out of you unlike some others on here...you were always honest on LNF and I saw you many times concede a point...and I grew to respect you for that...and thats why I have zero respect for the arpads..

    California and New Jersey are not broke because of govt workers and you know that...do they add to the problem yes...but this isnt about debt....this is about the rich using reverse class warfare because they know govt unions endorse democrats and they want govt employee pay forced down so they dont have to pay in the private sector more so the pigs at the trough can get instead of a pitiful 20 million dollar bonus they can get a 30....thats what this attack is all about.

    New jersey piss's away billions that they could cut and have no budget problems whatsover...so could wisc but thats not the real reason for this attack on the working class...

First off show me where I'm being anything but honest!

Secondly, show me proof that rich people want lower pay for Gov workers because they can't compete with it.
That has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard, the Private sector has never been in competition with Gov salaries, never, and they could care less from a business POV, I know, I'm one of those business people.

Quote from: Solar on February 25, 2011, 07:48:13 AM
First off show me where I'm being anything but honest!

Secondly, show me proof that rich people want lower pay for Gov workers because they can't compete with it.
That has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard, the Private sector has never been in competition with Gov salaries, never, and they could care less from a business POV, I know, I'm one of those business people.

  First of all I was complementing your honesty, not saying that you were being dishonest :)

   There are some things that are unprovable...theres no document anyone can produce to show that this attack on the working class is designed and funded by the rich to assure they pay less and less taxs and can continue keeping the pay of the private sector down
Solar you know as well as I...that private sector pay has stagnated and the big whine has been OMG we cant afford pensions and benefits...so they stripped their employees of pensions and benefits...and their profits went a soaring and the rich got far richer and bonus's got bigger and bigger....
    You and I also know that all this debt will disappear as soon as the economy gets back and more taxs flow into the states..

If the states cut all the worthless programs laid off unnecessary public workers...it would be enough.

      The gov of wisconsin like all other governors could have asked for reasonable concessions from workers...he could have ABOLISHED unnecessary positions within state govt including any civil service jobs...that is his right....thats not what he wants...because deficit reduction is not his goal...he want to union bust and take from govt workers...so he is making them the scapegoats and like christi and others on the ultra right are creating envy...making sure the private sector stays dumb and gutless and believes public employeed are overpaid and not that they are underpaid...The proof of that is the bonus's the pigs even when they fail...

Zip, you are all over the map.  You really aren't getting it.

Quote from: taxed on February 25, 2011, 08:43:28 AM
Zip, you are all over the map.  You really aren't getting it.

What else is Zip, and the entire labor movement supposed to do?

The good times are coming to an end so they're striking out in every direction and at everyone who looks like they might not be on board. It's the rich and the Republicans and the illegals and Wall Street and fat-cat CEOs and the frikkin' direction of the prevailing winds.

The actual reasons don't matter, the actual opponents are unimportant. What's important is hanging on to every crumb that was gotten when the wind was blowing in their direction.

I'm just waiting for the time when the unions start tearing each other apart to hang onto what they've got.

For instance, I'm expecting the municipal unions to start getting interested in public education reform for the simple reason the school districts are unreasonable expensive to run. You've got a school board in every district and a central office staff in every district and none of them are necessary. Get rid of all of them and all sorts of tax money will be freed up to, oh, I don't know...keep those gold-plated health insurance and fat retirement benefits flowing.

Of course the teacher's unions will fight that tooth and nail because school districts make it possible to easily and cheaply organize teachers. No district? No teacher's unions. But that won't deter the SEIU and the FOP and every other, non-education union. If there's a buck to be gotten union solidarity goes out the window.

Quote from: arpad on February 25, 2011, 10:27:55 AM
What else is Zip, and the entire labor movement supposed to do?

The good times are coming to an end so they're striking out in every direction and at everyone who looks like they might not be on board. It's the rich and the Republicans and the illegals and Wall Street and fat-cat CEOs and the frikkin' direction of the prevailing winds.

The actual reasons don't matter, the actual opponents are unimportant. What's important is hanging on to every crumb that was gotten when the wind was blowing in their direction.

I'm just waiting for the time when the unions start tearing each other apart to hang onto what they've got.

For instance, I'm expecting the municipal unions to start getting interested in public education reform for the simple reason the school districts are unreasonable expensive to run. You've got a school board in every district and a central office staff in every district and none of them are necessary. Get rid of all of them and all sorts of tax money will be freed up to, oh, I don't know...keep those gold-plated health insurance and fat retirement benefits flowing.

Of course the teacher's unions will fight that tooth and nail because school districts make it possible to easily and cheaply organize teachers. No district? No teacher's unions. But that won't deter the SEIU and the FOP and every other, non-education union. If there's a buck to be gotten union solidarity goes out the window.

I'm not sure why there is a disconnect with zip as to how he sees this whole thing...

Quote from: taxed on February 25, 2011, 08:43:28 AM
Zip, you are all over the map.  You really aren't getting it.

  I dont think so..buddy...

Quote from: zip on February 25, 2011, 05:56:24 AM
If you're gonna bay at the moon, try looking UP..... UP.....

   You dont know what your talking about...and YOU LOOK IT UP

For sure, one of us is completely full of shit, but what I said was "look up," not "look it up." When one endeavors to bay at the moon, one is well-advised to "look up." The moon tends to be found in the sky -- up. Sheesh.

   

QuoteChristie whitman stopped funding HER HALF of the NJ pension system...it has been followed through by every governor since she stated it...and the govt has NOT PAID 3.5 billion into the pension system while the employees continued to pay their half of the 7 billion...in 1994 New Jersey had the richest pension system in the world with a huge surplus...whitman single handedly caused its destruction by design...

I took your (unsolicited) advice, zip, and looked it up -- again. Lo and behold, I found a handy graphic that saves the less mathematically-inclined among us from slogging through a bunch of pesky numbers. It's a graphic representation of the NJ state employee pension fund, along with the state's contributions to same, for the years 1995-2008. (You'll recall, zip, that Ms. Whitman served as governor from 1994-2001.)



No need to get out a ruler, zip. It shows that during Ms. Whitman's time as governor, the state contributed funds every year, and though the fund was UNDERfunded when she started, it was soon OVERfunded and remained so the entire time she sat in the governor's chair. By 2000, the fund had roughly $20 billion it did not need, just sitting there collecting interest. To put this in perspective, New Jersey's ENTIRE state budget for the year 2000 was roughly $20 billion.

By the way, wasn't it Christine Todd Whitman who signed that lovely law in 1997 that prohibited the state from reducing its employees' pension benefits?

I don't dispute that New Jersey's state employees' pension fund is in serious trouble. And I'd say that you have the right to hate Christine Todd Whitman and blame her for the pension fund's problems all you want. But if I couldn't put my facts together any better than you're doing, zip, I'd be a bit more judicious about airing it on the internet.

Quote from: zip on February 25, 2011, 12:07:22 PM
  I dont think so..buddy...

Yes, you are all over the map.