https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2019/10/28/joe-biden-denied-communion-at-south-carolina-church-over-abortion-stance/ (https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2019/10/28/joe-biden-denied-communion-at-south-carolina-church-over-abortion-stance/)
Ok, this is not about religion. It's not even about abortion. It's about respect and hypocrisy.
FACT: The Catholic Church believes Abortion is Murder. It is a very serious sin.
FACT: Father Robert E. Morey is a Catholic priest. It is his duty to guide Catholics towards Jesus.
FACT: Joe Biden publicly encourages women to have Abortions. In the Catholic Church, this is a call to sin. Mortal sin. That will damn the women to an eternity in Hell.
FACT: Joe Biden publicly identifies himself as Catholic. To cynically gather the votes of Catholics.
MY CONCLUSION: For a priest to publicly administer the most holy Sacrament of Communion, to a man who is urging women to commit most serious sin, would be confirming that Joe Biden deserves this special honor. It would be ENABLING murder. It would be a SIN for this Priest to ignore the obvious and pretend all is ok with Joe Biden. That not only Biden, but any Catholic, can support Abortion and there will be no consequences.
It's not about theft, or corruption. These are also sins, but lesser ones, I submit. The priest could deny Communion for these lesser sins, but that would trivialize the statement of denying Communion.
Sadly, I have little faith in the present Catholic Hierarchy. I would actually be surprised if Father Robert E. Morey is not PUNISHED.
I hope I am wrong.
Well, Martin Luther represented the views of many Catholic Priests when he eventually committed heresy and nailed his " 95 Thesis" outlining grievances against the Catholic Church's wrongful actions and/or inactions, on the door of the Wittenberg Cathedral. One could hope that this Pope and the Catholic hierarchy decides to take a strong stand against Catholic politicians who are in favor of abortion! Martin Luther was not punished because far too many Catholics, including Priests, agreed with him.
Pelosi ought to be next!
Quote from: wally on October 29, 2019, 05:10:21 PM
Well, Martin Luther represented the views of many Catholic Priests when he eventually committed heresy and nailed his " 95 Thesis" outlining grievances against the Catholic Church's wrongful actions and/or inactions, on the door of the Wittenberg Cathedral. One could hope that this Pope and the Catholic hierarchy decides to take a strong stand against Catholic politicians who are in favor of abortion! Martin Luther was not punished because far too many Catholics, including Priests, agreed with him.
Pelosi ought to be next!
I believe Biden, Pelosi, and the like should be excommunicated if the Catholic Church was really serious.
But I'll settle for denying Communion.
I'm not a Catholic, but believe it has some good messages.
Messages that are meaningless if they publicly enable sinners.
Quote from: Rotwang on October 29, 2019, 05:15:25 PM
I believe Biden, Pelosi, and the like should be excommunicated if the Catholic Church was really serious.
But I'll settle for denying Communion.
I'm not a Catholic, but believe it has some good messages.
Messages that are meaningless if they publicly enable sinners.
I'm not Catholic, but my wife is. Her mom is very Catholic and doesn't question what the Pope and the hierarchy do or fail to do. My wife, is a bit troubled by her family's church's dogma. I guess that's way she married one of the Black Sheep...Baaa! ( What the Catholic Church needs is a Good Reformation! )
Quote from: wally on October 29, 2019, 05:33:00 PM
I'm not Catholic, but my wife is. Her mom is very Catholic and doesn't question what the Pope and the hierarchy do or fail to do. My wife, is a bit troubled by her family's church's dogma. I guess that's way she married one of the Black Sheep...Baaa! ( What the Catholic Church needs is a Good Reformation! )
If only there were video of Sleepy Creepy Joe when Father Morey denied him.
I'll bet his eyes were bugging out.
I'm so tired of him.
I was raised a Catholic, I no longer have faith in "the Church" although I have a strong Faith in God. One of my issues with Holy Mother Church is the fact They DO NOT condem abortion enough and they tolerate so called Catholic Dem Politicians like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, both should be excommunicated and condemned by the Pope and the Church alike, but No, the Money hungry Charlatans who run the Church nowadays would kiss the Devils rosy red firey ass for a dime.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on October 29, 2019, 06:46:28 PM
I was raised a Catholic, I no longer have faith in "the Church" although I have a strong Faith in God. One of my issues with Holy Mother Church is the fact They DO NOT condem abortion enough and they tolerate so called Catholic Dem Politicians like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, both should be excommunicated and condemned by the Pope and the Church alike, but No, the Money hungry Charlatans who run the Church nowadays would kiss the Devils rosy red firey ass for a dime.
Do you think that Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, gives 10% to the Church nowadays? :popcorn:
Popes a Marxist, nuff said.
Quote from: Solar on October 29, 2019, 06:56:16 PM
Popes a Marxist, nuff said.
A Marxist Politician.
Nothing more.
Actually it's been a longtime since the Church has actually excommunicated anyone.
Technically, when the priest denied him communnion, he was cut off, and since it is
public knowledge, a lot of other priests will be reminded. Priests are trained to do just
what this priest did, It is done, Biden has been made aware.
As I recall, excommunication involves the Bell, Book, and Candle.
I didn't know one had to be completly free of sin before receiving the communion. And its not like they check if you didn't ate or drink and hour before it. I certaintly never confessed before receiving it. I believe in some laws that run contrary to christian dogmatics, never been held from communion for that reason. Belgium is catholic and allows things like euthanasia and abortion and its not like our politicians get that much flak from the church but they wouldn't dare because in Belgium the catcholic church gets some serious funds from the state. Indeed for a while we were very hopefull that one of our more progressive archbishops would become the pope someday.
This seems to have far more of a political purpose. The christian church as a whole could have condemned abortion (which they do) or the country's/political party's that support it way earlier (which they usually don't do). The timing of this makes me think some priest or church received a lot of money.
Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on October 29, 2019, 11:36:44 PM
I didn't know one had to be completly free of sin before receiving the communion. And its not like they check if you didn't ate or drink and hour before it. I certaintly never confessed before receiving it. I believe in some laws that run contrary to christian dogmatics, never been held from communion for that reason. Belgium is catholic and allows things like euthanasia and abortion and its not like our politicians get that much flak from the church but they wouldn't dare because in Belgium the catcholic church gets some serious funds from the state. Indeed for a while we were very hopefull that one of our more progressive archbishops would become the pope someday.
This seems to have far more of a political purpose. The christian church as a whole could have condemned abortion (which they do) or the country's/political party's that support it way earlier (which they usually don't do). The timing of this makes me think some priest or church received a lot of money.
Or could it just possibly be, that there are actually good people that still believe in church doctrine, despite what the leadership does and gets away with?
You know, grooming children for pedophiles? It's just possible this Priest actually despises the evil that has bred within the halls of the Vatican and is willing to put his career on the line to make change.
Hey, it's possible...
Quote from: Solar on October 30, 2019, 06:24:50 AM
Or could it just possibly be, that there are actually good people that still believe in church doctrine, despite what the leadership does and gets away with?
You know, grooming children for pedophiles? It's just possible this Priest actually despises the evil that has bred within the halls of the Vatican and is willing to put his career on the line to make change.
Hey, it's possible...
A possibility Biden never thought of.
Quote from: s3779m on October 30, 2019, 06:27:16 AM
A possibility Biden never thought of.
Yep, some of us just can't be bought or intimidated. Bet he was floored when it happened. :thumbsup:
I was Catholic so excuse my cynical response.
Joe Biden has not paid enough. If you do then you can get a 25 year marriage annulled and drive your pregnant mistress of a bridge and not go back after her in 7 feet of water and no current. But you can walk 3 miles to the opposite side of the island from Dike Bridge past the fire station and then swim 500 feet across strong currents to get to your hotel. For this Ted Kennedy received communion.
I'm tired of defending main stream religion when I see local churches put rainbow colors and BLM on their front sign. Plus, don't forget the American bashing by Obama's pastor. I will never forget the Pope washed/kissed the feet of evil Muslims.
It's all the last straw.
Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on October 29, 2019, 11:36:44 PM
I didn't know one had to be completly free of sin before receiving the communion. And its not like they check if you didn't ate or drink and hour before it. I certaintly never confessed before receiving it. I believe in some laws that run contrary to christian dogmatics, never been held from communion for that reason. Belgium is catholic and allows things like euthanasia and abortion and its not like our politicians get that much flak from the church but they wouldn't dare because in Belgium the catcholic church gets some serious funds from the state. Indeed for a while we were very hopefull that one of our more progressive archbishops would become the pope someday.
This seems to have far more of a political purpose. The christian church as a whole could have condemned abortion (which they do) or the country's/political party's that support it way earlier (which they usually don't do). The timing of this makes me think some priest or church received a lot of money.
I'm no expert on sin but I can tell the differece between the venial sins that we all commit everyday like those little white lies about how you are out when a annoying associate calls and the big Mortal sin type lies that Joe Biden tells that negatively impact every Man woman and child in our Country and have done us all harm. Coupled with all the other crimes he's admitted to and even brags about I'd say he shouldn't even be allowed to set foot in a church and don't touch the holy water as it might burn his withered old ass.
Then there is the "Big One" which is murder or facilitating or suborning Murder of the unborn, which goes so far that the mainacs that control my State of virginia want to allow or dare I say encourage, even if the newborn is drawing a breath during a failed abortion.
Govt funded abortion and Planned Parenthood with its ghoul like harvesting ad selling of baby parts is the flagship of the Dem party
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on October 29, 2019, 06:46:28 PM
I was raised a Catholic, I no longer have faith in "the Church" although I have a strong Faith in God. One of my issues with Holy Mother Church is the fact They DO NOT condem abortion enough and they tolerate so called Catholic Dem Politicians like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, both should be excommunicated and condemned by the Pope and the Church alike, but No, the Money hungry Charlatans who run the Church nowadays would kiss the Devils rosy red firey ass for a dime.
You have stated my personal position better than I could.
I despite hypocrisy, especially from flawed human beings that do not even believe what they preach.
My heart goes out for the Priests, like Father Morey, who are likely a majority, but live under the dark cloud of the pedophiles, politicians, and frauds.
Quote from: s3779m on October 30, 2019, 06:27:16 AM
A possibility Biden never thought of.
A
probability, that men like Biden are unable to understand.
Corrupt men often imagine everyone is like they are.
Quote from: Rotwang on October 29, 2019, 06:31:55 PM
If only there were video of Sleepy Creepy Joe when Father Morey denied him.
I'll bet his eyes were bugging out.
I'm so tired of him.
If Father Morey lived near me, I could even be persuaded to talk to him.
I'd not mind confirming my flaws from a Priest I could respect.
So much has changed in the Catholic church that I am surprised that a priest even stood up to Biden.
The deal with the Catholic Church is that you were supposed to confess and claim you have repented for you sins. Biden never did that. If he renounced his stand on abortion and confessed his sins then the Catholic Church would welcome him back and not refuse him communion. Or he can write them a big check with many zeroes on the right like the mafia or the Kennedy clan.
Quote from: carolina73 on October 30, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
So much has changed in the Catholic church that I am surprised that a priest even stood up to Biden.
The deal with the Catholic Church is that you were supposed to confess and claim you have repented for you sins. Biden never did that. If he renounced his stand on abortion and confessed his sins then the Catholic Church would welcome him back and not refuse him communion. Or he can write them a big check with many zeroes on the right like the mafia or the Kennedy clan.
I don't like Joe Biden, never much did.
But lately his lies and corruption have really got on my nerves.
I'd not vote for him, but at least if he renounced Catholicism and left the Church he'd not be a hypocrite. At least not on that topic.
Quote from: Solar on October 30, 2019, 06:42:17 AM
Yep, some of us just can't be bought or intimidated. Bet he was floored when it happened. :thumbsup:
It got deeper, Cardinal Arch Bishop Dolan of New York, approved the priest's actions. Dolan is looked upon as the Primate
of the US.
Quote from: harry12 on November 01, 2019, 06:17:48 PM
It got deeper, Cardinal Arch Bishop Dolan of New York, approved the priest's actions. Dolan is looked upon as the Primate
of the US.
Primate? :blink:
Quote from: Solar on November 01, 2019, 07:25:27 PM
Primate? :blink:
Hmm...
often capitalized : a bishop who has precedence in a province, a group of provinces, or a nation.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/primate
Quote from: walkstall on November 01, 2019, 07:30:39 PM
Hmm...
often capitalized : a bishop who has precedence in a province, a group of provinces, or a nation.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/primate
OMG !!
Can you imagine if this ACCURATE term (which I admit I have never heard used in this context), was ever applied to a BLACK BISHOP ?
!!!!
Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on October 29, 2019, 11:36:44 PM
I didn't know one had to be completly free of sin before receiving the communion. And its not like they check if you didn't ate or drink and hour before it. I certaintly never confessed before receiving it. I believe in some laws that run contrary to christian dogmatics, never been held from communion for that reason. Belgium is catholic and allows things like euthanasia and abortion and its not like our politicians get that much flak from the church but they wouldn't dare because in Belgium the catcholic church gets some serious funds from the state. Indeed for a while we were very hopefull that one of our more progressive archbishops would become the pope someday.
This seems to have far more of a political purpose. The christian church as a whole could have condemned abortion (which they do) or the country's/political party's that support it way earlier (which they usually don't do). The timing of this makes me think some priest or church received a lot of money.
At least here in New England it takes very little money, I am sure, for the Pulpits to spew Liberal Hypocrisy.
The endless excuses made for the Kennedys (especially the murderer Ted, for instance) are based in Democrat bias.
And is Pedophilia more of a Liberal inclination or a Conservative one ? Last time I checked Conservatives are far less tolerant of deviants.
Quote from: Solar on October 30, 2019, 06:24:50 AM
Or could it just possibly be, that there are actually good people that still believe in church doctrine, despite what the leadership does and gets away with?
You know, grooming children for pedophiles? It's just possible this Priest actually despises the evil that has bred within the halls of the Vatican and is willing to put his career on the line to make change.
Hey, it's possible...
To me this individual Priest's commitment to his FAITH is clear.
I didn't know there were any like him left.
Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on October 29, 2019, 11:36:44 PM
I didn't know one had to be completly free of sin before receiving the communion. And its not like they check if you didn't ate or drink and hour before it. I certaintly never confessed before receiving it. I believe in some laws that run contrary to christian dogmatics, never been held from communion for that reason. Belgium is catholic and allows things like euthanasia and abortion and its not like our politicians get that much flak from the church but they wouldn't dare because in Belgium the catcholic church gets some serious funds from the state. Indeed for a while we were very hopefull that one of our more progressive archbishops would become the pope someday.
This seems to have far more of a political purpose. The christian church as a whole could have condemned abortion (which they do) or the country's/political party's that support it way earlier (which they usually don't do). The timing of this makes me think some priest or church received a lot of money.
Well, yes.
Still, although I don't know other faiths as well as I would like to (religion fascinates me), I do know that Catholics traditionally have placed a lot of emphasis on the SEVERITY of a Sin.
There are Venial (minor) Sins, and Mortal (major) Sins.
Without giving endless examples, let us simply agree that Murdering a Baby is one of the bad sins. Really bad sins.
I was raised Catholic, but attend Mass these days only for Weddings and Funerals.
Enough of my faith remains that I would never dream of accepting Communion. I am a sinner, and accepting Communion would be like spitting in Jesus's face.
I respect myself and respect Him too much to engage in that petty hypocrisy.
But I'm not a Democrat.
I think it's good the priest did this. A lot of Catholic churches have been positioned by the sitting pope, and have allowed for a conflation between what was once considered to be sin and what is not sin. I work for a church doing event coordination and so forth. To see how this church embraces LGBTQ+ communities and actually supports topics such as a abortion is a rude awakening for me. I may not be the most religious person, but seeing that has really made me consider what is is some of these fait institutions are doing.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on November 04, 2019, 06:10:07 AM
I think it's good the priest did this. A lot of Catholic churches have been positioned by the sitting pope, and have allowed for a conflation between what was once considered to be sin and what is not sin. I work for a church doing event coordination and so forth. To see how this church embraces LGBTQ+ communities and actually supports topics such as a abortion is a rude awakening for me. I may not be the most religious person, but seeing that has really made me consider what is is some of these fait institutions are doing.
jmho, I see too many instances of churches thinking as the rinos did. It is as if they believe that if they embrace or accept the lsm views, the liberals will accept them. What I do not think they understand, liberals will never get over their hate for the church or the conservative. Abortion is not a viewpoint, it is pure evil. The church will gain nothing by accepting evil.
Quote from: s3779m on November 04, 2019, 06:19:26 AM
jmho, I see too many instances of churches thinking as the rinos did. It is as if they believe that if they embrace or accept the lsm views, the liberals will accept them. What I do not think they understand, liberals will never get over their hate for the church or the conservative. Abortion is not a viewpoint, it is pure evil. The church will gain nothing by accepting evil.
Exactly. For an institution that has set moral fabric for years to say something like that is pure insanity. Liberals do hate the church unless they can turn it into a vessel for their ideology, such as the one I work for. Almost to the point where it does not even register as a church anymore, its the religion of leftism.
Quote from: ConservativeInCT on November 04, 2019, 06:24:03 AM
Exactly. For an institution that has set moral fabric for years to say something like that is pure insanity. Liberals do hate the church unless they can turn it into a vessel for their ideology, such as the one I work for. Almost to the point where it does not even register as a church anymore, its the religion of leftism.
What the Catholic Church does not understand is people want the Religion of CHRIST = unadulterated.
No add-ons, no nonsense. No modern hypocrisy.
A simple Church based on ageless Tenets.
And no, it is not Political to condemn Joe Biden's SINS.
Just condemn the sins of Republicans and Libertarians as well, And there are plenty.
Anyhow, this shit about prohibiting Churches to be Political is wrong, anyhow.
The Pope himself could hardly be more of a partisan hack.
Quote from: Rotwang on October 29, 2019, 04:49:36 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2019/10/28/joe-biden-denied-communion-at-south-carolina-church-over-abortion-stance/ (https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2019/10/28/joe-biden-denied-communion-at-south-carolina-church-over-abortion-stance/)
Ok, this is not about religion. It's not even about abortion. It's about respect and hypocrisy.
FACT: The Catholic Church believes Abortion is Murder. It is a very serious sin.
FACT: Father Robert E. Morey is a Catholic priest. It is his duty to guide Catholics towards Jesus.
FACT: Joe Biden publicly encourages women to have Abortions. In the Catholic Church, this is a call to sin. Mortal sin. That will damn the women to an eternity in Hell.
FACT: Joe Biden publicly identifies himself as Catholic. To cynically gather the votes of Catholics.
MY CONCLUSION: For a priest to publicly administer the most holy Sacrament of Communion, to a man who is urging women to commit most serious sin, would be confirming that Joe Biden deserves this special honor. It would be ENABLING murder. It would be a SIN for this Priest to ignore the obvious and pretend all is ok with Joe Biden. That not only Biden, but any Catholic, can support Abortion and there will be no consequences.
It's not about theft, or corruption. These are also sins, but lesser ones, I submit. The priest could deny Communion for these lesser sins, but that would trivialize the statement of denying Communion.
Sadly, I have little faith in the present Catholic Hierarchy. I would actually be surprised if Father Robert E. Morey is not PUNISHED.
I hope I am wrong.
Ya he really should be excommunicated. The church prescribes a way of doing it where you talk to the guy and give him amble opportunity to change.
Also communion is supposed to be self regulating in the sense that a christian should examine themselves before taking it. Not that they are free from sin but the opposite. That they acknowledge their sin and seek forgivness.
Quote from: wally on October 29, 2019, 05:10:21 PM
Well, Martin Luther represented the views of many Catholic Priests when he eventually committed heresy and nailed his " 95 Thesis" outlining grievances against the Catholic Church's wrongful actions and/or inactions, on the door of the Wittenberg Cathedral. One could hope that this Pope and the Catholic hierarchy decides to take a strong stand against Catholic politicians who are in favor of abortion! Martin Luther was not punished because far too many Catholics, including Priests, agreed with him.
Pelosi ought to be next!
I really dont mean to nitpick but...well I'm gonna anyway :biggrin:
After making waves they tried to kill ol martin. His friend actually pretended to be a bandit and kidnapped martin on the road while traveling and took him to his castle. He had to hide at wartburg castle for over a year I believe. That is when he translated the bible into the language of the common man.
Quote from: wally on October 29, 2019, 05:33:00 PM
I'm not Catholic, but my wife is. Her mom is very Catholic and doesn't question what the Pope and the hierarchy do or fail to do. My wife, is a bit troubled by her family's church's dogma. I guess that's way she married one of the Black Sheep...Baaa! ( What the Catholic Church needs is a Good Reformation! )
My dad was raised catholic and my gma and cousins still are. We Lutherans have been complaining about catholic dogma for centuries! They have always been far to connected to power, and have always pushed sort of a "works righteousness" were you only get to heaven if you earn it by being better than everyone else.
Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on October 29, 2019, 11:36:44 PM
QuoteI didn't know one had to be completly free of sin before receiving the communion. And its not like they check if you didn't ate or drink and hour before it.
You dont have to be sinless as the only human to ever be sinless was and is Jesus.
QuoteI certaintly never confessed before receiving it.
You dont need to confess before someone else. You need to confess to yourself and God and ask for his forgivness. Ask and it will be given to you.
QuoteI believe in some laws that run contrary to christian dogmatics, never been held from communion for that reason.
Then either your church didnt know your position or they arent doing their job.
QuoteBelgium is catholic and allows things like euthanasia and abortion and its not like our politicians get that much flak from the church but they wouldn't dare because in Belgium the catcholic church gets some serious funds from the state. Indeed for a while we were very hopefull that one of our more progressive archbishops would become the pope someday.
Yes the catholic church has a history of corruption and connections to power. Even after the reformation they support authoritarianism and totalitarianism (aka leftism). There are alot of 'christian socialists' in europe.
QuoteThis seems to have far more of a political purpose. The christian church as a whole could have condemned abortion (which they do) or the country's/political party's that support it way earlier (which they usually don't do). The timing of this makes me think some priest or church received a lot of money.
The church has always been against the murder of babies.
Why would you think the priest took money to harm biden? Conservatives never pull stuff like that. Corrupt people see corruption everywhere.
You have a very pop view of christianity. One corrupted by leftism, not based on reality.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on October 30, 2019, 04:48:23 PM
I'm no expert on sin but I can tell the differece between the venial sins that we all commit everyday like those little white lies about how you are out when a annoying associate calls and the big Mortal sin type lies that Joe Biden tells that negatively impact every Man woman and child in our Country and have done us all harm. Coupled with all the other crimes he's admitted to and even brags about I'd say he shouldn't even be allowed to set foot in a church and don't touch the holy water as it might burn his withered old ass.
Then there is the "Big One" which is murder or facilitating or suborning Murder of the unborn, which goes so far that the mainacs that control my State of virginia want to allow or dare I say encourage, even if the newborn is drawing a breath during a failed abortion.
Govt funded abortion and Planned Parenthood with its ghoul like harvesting ad selling of baby parts is the flagship of the Dem party
The difference between an athiest and a christian is that even tho both commit these 'everyday sins' the christian still feels guilt and shame for them and wishes he could be perfect, if only out of a sense of love and gratitude to jesus for saving us, much less God for creating us.
The christian will repent for all sins and seek forgiveness, which then melts the guilt and shame away. This in turn leads to better actions in life. The faith comes first then action, whereas some Catholics seem to say the action is done to earn the faith.
Attitude matters more than action because the attitude leads to action. Your dont try to be good in order to earn forgivness, you are forgiven and therefore you try to be good. "We love because he first loved us".
Leftists HATE this whole concept because it seems wildly unfair to them. To a leftist you MUST follow any moral code you hold to PERFECTLY or you shouldn't hold it at all. That is exactly how they treat their own in regards to leftist morality like climate change and racism. One sin and your gone, unless of course you are useful to them in a position of power. This notion of rigidly obeying a moral code or else your punished is the core of the LAW, as opposed to the GOSPEL which I wrote about above. Leftists who reject the need for a savior are effectively opting to be judged under the LAW instead of the GOSPEL. No human besides Jesus has ever kept the Law perfectly to earn heaven.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
"the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life"
"who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God who delivers us through Jesus Christ our Lord"
Quote from: Rotwang on November 02, 2019, 09:20:15 AM
Well, yes.
Still, although I don't know other faiths as well as I would like to (religion fascinates me), I do know that Catholics traditionally have placed a lot of emphasis on the SEVERITY of a Sin.
There are Venial (minor) Sins, and Mortal (major) Sins.
Without giving endless examples, let us simply agree that Murdering a Baby is one of the bad sins. Really bad sins.
I was raised Catholic, but attend Mass these days only for Weddings and Funerals.
Enough of my faith remains that I would never dream of accepting Communion. I am a sinner, and accepting Communion would be like spitting in Jesus's face.
I respect myself and respect Him too much to engage in that petty hypocrisy.
But I'm not a Democrat.
That's perfectly fine from a doctrinal standpoint. Communion is an expression of forgivness, not a requirement for forgivness. No one would say your salvation requires communion to have been taken. Faith the size of a mustard seed(very small) is enough to save.
To put it mathematically,
Anything less than < 100% perfection=damnation (aka every human ever, besides jesus)
Yet anything greater than > 0% faith=saved from damnation (aka anyone with the slightest sliver of faith)
Quote from: Rotwang on November 04, 2019, 04:31:40 PM
What the Catholic Church does not understand is people want the Religion of CHRIST = unadulterated.
No add-ons, no nonsense. No modern hypocrisy.
A simple Church based on ageless Tenets.
And no, it is not Political to condemn Joe Biden's SINS.
Just condemn the sins of Republicans and Libertarians as well, And there are plenty.
Anyhow, this shit about prohibiting Churches to be Political is wrong, anyhow.
The Pope himself could hardly be more of a partisan hack.
Exactly! That is what Martin Luther was saying. Christianity comes from Gods Word alone as the only authority, not the word of some sinful human.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 07, 2019, 02:34:07 AM
That's perfectly fine from a doctrinal standpoint. Communion is an expression of forgivness, not a requirement for forgivness. No one would say your salvation requires communion to have been taken. Faith the size of a mustard seed(very small) is enough to save.
To put it mathematically,
Anything less than < 100% perfection=damnation (aka every human ever, besides jesus)
Yet anything greater than > 0% faith=saved from damnation (aka anyone with the slightest sliver of faith)
That is reassuring.
Quote from: Rotwang on November 07, 2019, 07:28:27 AM
That is reassuring.
I agree. My father passed away one year ago and everytime the evil inside me trys to convince me that maybe he wasnt good enough to get to heaven I remember that I know he had at least some faith, and that's enough to save.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 07, 2019, 08:19:21 PM
I agree. My father passed away one year ago and everytime the evil inside me trys to convince me that maybe he wasnt good enough to get to heaven I remember that I know he had at least some faith, and that's enough to save.
I like to think that every human being has Original Sin, and is flawed. Still, all will get to Heaven - eventually.
But here is what is necessary:
God will weigh the good you have done - OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL - against the evil.
If your evil outweighs the good, the remedy is both simple and fair.
You will relive the evil you have done to others - then Heaven will be open.
Hopefully, my wait will be short - and Stalin's will be lengthy.
Quote from: Rotwang on October 29, 2019, 04:49:36 PM
Sadly, I have little faith in the present Catholic Hierarchy. I would actually be surprised if Father Robert E. Morey is not PUNISHED.
I hope I am wrong.
i don't think you are wrong...
Unfortunately, the Church is... just not really the Church anymore (is what I want to say)
Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church but he never said the gates of Hell would not VIRTUALLY prevail.
I love this priest. Too bad others are not like him... and yeh, he probably already has been punished by the strange pope in Rome
Quote from: Rotwang on October 29, 2019, 05:15:25 PM
I believe Biden, Pelosi, and the like should be excommunicated if the Catholic Church was really serious.
But I'll settle for denying Communion.
I'm not a Catholic, but believe it has some good messages.
Messages that are meaningless if they publicly enable sinners.
the Church has become worldly
Quote from: Rotwang on October 29, 2019, 06:31:55 PM
If only there were video of Sleepy Creepy Joe when Father Morey denied him.
I'll bet his eyes were bugging out.
I'm so tired of him.
sleepy is not a bad thing, but corrupt is..
he won't be the nominee and if he is, Trump will squash him
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on October 29, 2019, 06:46:28 PM
I was raised a Catholic, I no longer have faith in "the Church" although I have a strong Faith in God. One of my issues with Holy Mother Church is the fact They DO NOT condem abortion enough and they tolerate so called Catholic Dem Politicians like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, both should be excommunicated and condemned by the Pope and the Church alike, but No, the Money hungry Charlatans who run the Church nowadays would kiss the Devils rosy red firey ass for a dime.
there was a time when i would pounce on someone for saying this but sadly.....
sigh..
well, Jesus did tell us that FEW would find the narrow way to Heaven... What he probably should have added (assuming he didn't?) is
VERY few
sorry if that sounds judgmental but i have seen an awful lot of evil in my relatively-speaking long life time...
Quote from: cynical1 on November 09, 2019, 01:04:54 PM
there was a time when i would pounce on someone for saying this but sadly.....
sigh..
well, Jesus did tell us that FEW would find the narrow way to Heaven... What he probably should have added (assuming he didn't?) is
VERY few
sorry if that sounds judgmental but i have seen an awful lot of evil in my relatively-speaking long life time...
That's pretty much what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe, isn't it ?
I suppose that is why many people find atheism reassuring.
No afterlife is better than an awful one.
Quote from: Rotwang on November 08, 2019, 08:06:57 PM
I like to think that every human being has Original Sin, and is flawed. Still, all will get to Heaven - eventually.
But here is what is necessary:
God will weigh the good you have done - OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL - against the evil.
If your evil outweighs the good, the remedy is both simple and fair.
You will relive the evil you have done to others - then Heaven will be open.
Hopefully, my wait will be short - and Stalin's will be lengthy.
Someimes I wonder if when we die we are in some kind of limbo until judgment day and then go to heaven or hell. But then I remember the pastor at my fathers funeral quoted a passage from jesus on the cross. There were two thieves(or criminals of some kind) being crucified with him...
LUKE
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!"
40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. d "
43Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you,
today you will be with me in paradise."
From a science fiction stand point, if the supernatural and God are in some kind of 4th dimension that exists outside of TIME (total speculation here) then it is kinda irrelevant whether there is any wait time.
Another parable which applies is the one about the workers. Back in that day there was alot of men who didnt have steady employment but were just day laborers. They wld wait in the market and potential employers wld come and hire them for the day...
MATTHEW
1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2He agreed to pay them a denarius a for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3"About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5So they went.
"He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing.6About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'
7" 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.
"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'
8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'
9"The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius.11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12'These who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'
13"But he answered one of them, 'I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'
16"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."
The point being that there will be Christians who think that since they have been better people that they deserve heaven but that someone who converted on their deathbed after a life of sin shouldn't go to heaven. But the parable shows that God is the creator and owner of us all and if he decides to show even the worst sinner grace than so be it. Who are we to argue with our creator. But it is comforting because even if your evil outweighs your good your still in.
Quote from: Rotwang on November 08, 2019, 08:06:57 PM
I like to think that every human being has Original Sin, and is flawed. Still, all will get to Heaven - eventually.
But here is what is necessary:
God will weigh the good you have done - OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL - against the evil.
If your evil outweighs the good, the remedy is both simple and fair.
You will relive the evil you have done to others - then Heaven will be open.
Hopefully, my wait will be short - and Stalin's will be lengthy.
The libs really hate that concept of original sin. The idea that you are born one way and dont even have a chance to be perfect. But if you consider that sin=imperfection than it makes sense. No one is born (or concieved) perfect. Everyone has some sort of imperfection about them and thus "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" "be perfect for I the lord your God am perfect."
But that is just the law, only one half of the equation. The other half is the gospel.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. "
Quote from: T Hunt on November 10, 2019, 02:06:17 AM
Someimes I wonder if when we die we are in some kind of limbo until judgment day and then go to heaven or hell. But then I remember the pastor at my fathers funeral quoted a passage from jesus on the cross. There were two thieves(or criminals of some kind) being crucified with him...
LUKE
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!"
40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. d "
43Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
From a science fiction stand point, if the supernatural and God are in some kind of 4th dimension that exists outside of TIME (total speculation here) then it is kinda irrelevant whether there is any wait time.
Another parable which applies is the one about the workers. Back in that day there was alot of men who didnt have steady employment but were just day laborers. They wld wait in the market and potential employers wld come and hire them for the day...
MATTHEW
1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2He agreed to pay them a denarius a for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3"About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5So they went.
"He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing.6About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'
7" 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.
"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'
8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'
9"The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius.11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12'These who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'
13"But he answered one of them, 'I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'
16"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."
The point being that there will be Christians who think that since they have been better people that they deserve heaven but that someone who converted on their deathbed after a life of sin shouldn't go to heaven. But the parable shows that God is the creator and owner of us all and if he decides to show even the worst sinner grace than so be it. Who are we to argue with our creator. But it is comforting because even if your evil outweighs your good your still in.
I remember that parable.
It mirrors the Prodigal Son, where the Father is actually HAPPIER for the son who sinned and then returned and begged forgiveness, than he is for the son who never left - but for years always served his father well.
It certainly is counterintuitive ! And never seemed fair to me.
But it is the way of the Lord as explained by Jesus.
Quote from: Rotwang on November 09, 2019, 06:04:38 PM
That's pretty much what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe, isn't it ?
I suppose that is why many people find atheism reassuring.
No afterlife is better than an awful one.
the JWs may think only they are going to any paradise (not sure t hey believe in Heaven--?) but they do not believe in Hell much less an eternal Hell. They think evil people just die and that's the end of them.
That does not make a lick of sense. If people do evil all their lives, not giving a rip how their evil hurts people.. and all they do is die (cease to exist), where is the JUSTICE?
You don't have to be Christian to believe in justice and if you believe in Justice, you just know there is justice in the next life bc there sure as hell is NOT justice in this one...
Quote from: TrumpTrain on April 30, 2020, 07:47:35 AM
You are correct, and more than that:
Since Biden (and Pelosi, and John Kerry, and more) have continued this "evil" for decades when they are well aware that what they are doing is wrong, they really need to be excommunicated.
And why hasn't that been done???? Nobody who has the authority to that has the gonads to stand up to it. Can you imagine the blow back from such a thing.