Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 02:55:14 AM

Title: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 02:55:14 AM
Especially if you find yourself in a position to shoot back. It's statistically true and I've seen it first hand.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html)

Packing heat may backfire. People who carry guns are far likelier to get shot – and killed – than those who are unarmed, a study of shooting victims in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has found.

It would be impractical – not to say unethical – to randomly assign volunteers to carry a gun or not and see what happens. So Charles Branas's team at the University of Pennsylvania analysed 677 shootings over two-and-a-half years to discover whether victims were carrying at the time, and compared them to other Philly residents of similar age, sex and ethnicity. The team also accounted for other potentially confounding differences, such as the socioeconomic status of their neighbourhood.

Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 22, 2013, 03:09:13 AM
 "We don't have an answer as to whether guns are protective or perilous," Branas says. "This study is a beginning."


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 03:15:37 AM
"We don't have an answer as to whether guns are protective or perilous," Branas says. "This study is a beginning."


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html)

That's a typo, he clearly meant it's a conclusive study.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 03:23:01 AM
The only armed citizen to return fire at the Tacoma Mall mass casualty shooting got shot and is now quadriplegic.   He's a good guy but probably wished he hid or fled like the other survivors.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 22, 2013, 03:51:17 AM
That's a typo, he clearly meant it's a conclusive study.


Yeah :huh: O.K.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 03:59:22 AM
From the article:

While it may be that the type of people who carry firearms are simply more likely to get shot, it may be that guns give a sense of empowerment that causes carriers to overreact in tense situations, or encourages them to visit neighbourhoods they probably shouldn't

The study is flawed. One has to assume that they wouldn't have been shot if they didn't have a gun, which is impossible to assume. Secondly, if people are walking into dangerous neighborhoods, just because they have a gun, the study would be a reflection of a tiny sampling of gun owners that are really stupid. I'd guess that around 99% of people with concealed carry, don't intentionally put themselves in dangerous situations. The ones that walk into dangerous neighborhoods are looking for trouble; so yeah, there's a higher chance of getting shot. Duh!
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 22, 2013, 04:02:05 AM
"In addition to McKown, five other people were shot but not seriously injured."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting)


Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Reality on January 22, 2013, 04:10:49 AM
...but did the study delve into the background of those who carried weapons that got killed.  Were these ordinary citizens who just happened to carry a weapon or were they a part of the criminal element that did the killing.  Were they a "target" that was going to die one way or another anyway?

From the article.

"While it may be that the type of people who carry firearms are simply more likely to get shot,...."

From Wiki.

In September 2006, New Scientist was criticised by science fiction writer Greg Egan, who wrote that "a sensationalist bent and a lack of basic knowledge by its writers" was making the magazine's coverage sufficiently unreliable,...."

I'll take my chances by having the capability to fight back rather than do nothing and be killed or watch someone else get killed.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: mdgiles on January 22, 2013, 05:52:51 AM
Is this like those studies that tell us how many "children" are killed by firearms - and then we find out that the study considers 19 year old gang bangers, "children"/sarc.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: JustKari on January 22, 2013, 06:00:37 AM
This study is flawed.

1.  No random sample, no study can even begin to claim accuracy without it.

2.  Matching people of relatively the same age, etc.destroys the validity, if your sample is large enough (and I dare say there are enough gun owners/carriers to make the sample large) you don't have to match, you can take two large samples and compare them.

3. Goes with 2, you need a very large sample to make any assessment with more depth than a causal link.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Shooterman on January 22, 2013, 06:01:47 AM
...but did the study delve into the background of those who carried weapons that got killed.  Were these ordinary citizens who just happened to carry a weapon or were they a part of the criminal element that did the killing.  Were they a "target" that was going to die one way or another anyway?

From the article.

"While it may be that the type of people who carry firearms are simply more likely to get shot,...."

From Wiki.

In September 2006, New Scientist was criticised by science fiction writer Greg Egan, who wrote that "a sensationalist bent and a lack of basic knowledge by its writers" was making the magazine's coverage sufficiently unreliable,...."

I'll take my chances by having the capability to fight back rather than do nothing and be killed or watch someone else get killed.

It is somewhat hard, unless you have a liberal bent, to get very concerned about gang bangers shooting and killing gang bangers. Then to try to prove it applies to everyday normal law abiding citizens is a fools game.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 07:19:39 AM
Is this like those studies that tell us how many "children" are killed by firearms - and then we find out that the study considers 19 year old gang bangers, "children"/sarc.  :rolleyes:
That's just it, was it a study done on strictly legal gun owners, or punks a drug dealers as well?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 07:34:21 AM
This study is flawed.

1.  No random sample, no study can even begin to claim accuracy without it.

2.  Matching people of relatively the same age, etc.destroys the validity, if your sample is large enough (and I dare say there are enough gun owners/carriers to make the sample large) you don't have to match, you can take two large samples and compare them.

3. Goes with 2, you need a very large sample to make any assessment with more depth than a causal link.
Yep, and like all lib studies, it's only subject to elite groups.
Think Global Warming and the very group charged with finding results, is the very same group established to verify so called findings.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: raptor5618 on January 22, 2013, 08:41:05 AM
To get funding for studies in a publish or perish world, you make damn sure your results confirm the bias of the organizations or agencies funding them.  Funding to prove global warming is a hoax or that some common food or chemical will cure some type of cancer is never going to get a dime. 

The majority of killings are the result of gang fights, drug wars and disagreements between criminal elements.  The study was done in Philadelphia.  My father was a mason instructor for Job Corp and they did a job in Philadelphia.  They had a police escort to the job and police were there during the job as well.  Some of these kids came from Philadelphia so they had to be sure that old enemies did not decide to exact revenge on them. 

With that one exception, I think all the people killed in those mass murder sites were unarmed.  That school principle tried to get the killer the way the libs would (unarmed) and well she is not just paralyzed.

The whole premise does not take much thought to realize how flawed it is.  If you are to suppose that someone would act the same way with a gun as without and then compare the consequence well I would much prefer to run at a shooter while I was armed than unarmed.  Or as was stated maybe that person should have run away.  Talk about compassion for your fellow man.   A shooter in a mall full of people who are unarmed and you have the potential to stop the shooter since you have a gun and probably have a decent level of skill using that gun.  Now running away is the safest thing to do on a personal level but for humanity we expect a whole host of people to run toward situations where the safest route is to run away. 

Maybe they should have done the same study in New York on 9/11.  Might find out that you are more likely to be killed by a building if you were a cop or fireman.  Now that seat belts are mandatory you can say that you are more likely to be in a car crash if you have a seat belt on than not on.  One fact does not confer the other outcome.  Lets do the same study in Colorado during elk season.  Compare the number of gun deaths to the number of people who have a gun in their possession.   Deer season in PA there are nearly a million people walking around with a gun in their hands.  Not sure how many gun deaths there are during that time but I suspect that it is far less than 4.5 million.   

Maybe we need a study to see if people who die with a needle stuck in their arm with a burnt spoon in their lap are more likely to have died of a drug overdose. 

There just was a survey of people who do research and the majority of them admit to playing with the data to come to the correct conclusion. 
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: JustKari on January 22, 2013, 09:04:41 AM
To get funding for studies in a publish or perish world, you make damn sure your results confirm the bias of the organizations or agencies funding them.  Funding to prove global warming is a hoax or that some common food or chemical will cure some type of cancer is never going to get a dime. 

The majority of killings are the result of gang fights, drug wars and disagreements between criminal elements.  The study was done in Philadelphia.  My father was a mason instructor for Job Corp and they did a job in Philadelphia.  They had a police escort to the job and police were there during the job as well.  Some of these kids came from Philadelphia so they had to be sure that old enemies did not decide to exact revenge on them. 

With that one exception, I think all the people killed in those mass murder sites were unarmed.  That school principle tried to get the killer the way the libs would (unarmed) and well she is not just paralyzed.

The whole premise does not take much thought to realize how flawed it is.  If you are to suppose that someone would act the same way with a gun as without and then compare the consequence well I would much prefer to run at a shooter while I was armed than unarmed.  Or as was stated maybe that person should have run away.  Talk about compassion for your fellow man.   A shooter in a mall full of people who are unarmed and you have the potential to stop the shooter since you have a gun and probably have a decent level of skill using that gun.  Now running away is the safest thing to do on a personal level but for humanity we expect a whole host of people to run toward situations where the safest route is to run away. 

Maybe they should have done the same study in New York on 9/11.  Might find out that you are more likely to be killed by a building if you were a cop or fireman.  Now that seat belts are mandatory you can say that you are more likely to be in a car crash if you have a seat belt on than not on.  One fact does not confer the other outcome.  Lets do the same study in Colorado during elk season.  Compare the number of gun deaths to the number of people who have a gun in their possession.   Deer season in PA there are nearly a million people walking around with a gun in their hands.  Not sure how many gun deaths there are during that time but I suspect that it is far less than 4.5 million.   

Maybe we need a study to see if people who die with a needle stuck in their arm with a burnt spoon in their lap are more likely to have died of a drug overdose. 

There just was a survey of people who do research and the majority of them admit to playing with the data to come to the correct conclusion.

This is true, some study participants will try to figure out what you are studying and give you the "right" answer.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
That's a typo, he clearly meant it's a conclusive study.

Christ, do we really have to put up with this ?

I thought this was the only website in the world that hadn't been over run by the new kiddie onslaught.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 09:14:28 AM
Christ, do we really have to put up with this ?

I thought this was the only website in the world that hadn't been over run by the new kiddie onslaught.

They never last very long. One way or another, they go away when they are unable to provide links and proof to their claims. :wink:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 09:20:28 AM
I just have a short fuse with the legion of idiotic blabbers.

It's even worse that they have figured out a way to outlast the adults and productive citizens in various ways.

There's even a funny little sub-game on a lot of boards, where they get together and release a tidal wave of foolish, childish drivel simply to elicit insults, then run & cry to moderators to demand suspensions and bannings.

I think they moderator-shop for fellow traveller liberal mods, just like the dems judge-shop.  It would be funny if it wasn't so damned permanently annoying.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 22, 2013, 09:31:57 AM
I just have a short fuse with the legion of idiotic blabbers.

It's even worse that they have figured out a way to outlast the adults and productive citizens in various ways.

There's even a funny little sub-game on a lot of boards, where they get together and release a tidal wave of foolish, childish drivel simply to elicit insults, then run & cry to moderators to demand suspensions and bannings.

I think they moderator-shop for fellow traveller liberal mods, just like the dems judge-shop.  It would be funny if it wasn't so damned permanently annoying.

That doesn't fly here.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 09:34:21 AM
I just have a short fuse with the legion of idiotic blabbers.

It's even worse that they have figured out a way to outlast the adults and productive citizens in various ways.

There's even a funny little sub-game on a lot of boards, where they get together and release a tidal wave of foolish, childish drivel simply to elicit insults, then run & cry to moderators to demand suspensions and bannings.

I think they moderator-shop for fellow traveller liberal mods, just like the dems judge-shop.  It would be funny if it wasn't so damned permanently annoying.

It is annoying, but those ploys don't work on here. Everybody gets the chance to say something, but it has to be backed up with some type of proof; conservatives included. A strictly opinion based forum is pretty useless.

When these people show up on here, I'll either attack them or ignore them, depending on my mood. Usually I just ignore them; typing out responses is a waste of my time. :smile:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 09:49:20 AM
That's a typo, he clearly meant it's a conclusive study.
Is this just a typical liberal "Feeling", or do you actually have proof of such a claim?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Eyesabide on January 22, 2013, 10:06:34 AM
Simply wearing shoes with laces causes tripping! That's why children are taught at home and school how to tie them.  Through repitition and practice, our children are better protected from injury and our population is better for it. Know what? Wearing laced shoes is not even a right of the people.

I am inspired by this thread. The original poster is correct in that carrying a gun increases your risk of being shot and killed, just as carrying scissors increases your chance of being cut and wounded.

The Second Amendment is a right that "Shall Not Be Infringed." Rights should not be taxed, financially or philosophicaly. They should be accurately and consistently be enforced by the people chosen to uphold the rights of others. An Irony, since we were intended to be governed "Of the People, By the People, and For the People." We are all responsible.

Giving breaks to people who abuse our rights is an infringement of our rights and trust. It is our responsibility as a people to remove those who do not serve the public trust. and when we don't, that results in the condition we as a country are in. I digress.

Gun safety should be taught in schools. Non revised history, and the reasons for the second amendment should be in the curiculum also, every year. Statisticly, Cheerleading and almost every other sport is more dangerous than Shooting sports in schools. It would be interesting to see who would be for eliminating all sports proven more dangerous than target shooting.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 10:11:25 AM
Simply wearing shoes with laces causes tripping! That's why children are taught at home and school how to tie them.  Through repitition and practice, our children are better protected from injury and our population is better for it. Know what? Wearing laced shoes is not even a right of the people.

I am inspired by this thread. The original poster is correct in that carrying a gun increases your risk of being shot and killed, just as carrying scissors increases your chance of being cut and wounded.

The Second Amendment is a right that "Shall Not Be Infringed." Rights should not be taxed, financially or philosophicaly. They should be accurately and consistently be enforced by the people chosen to uphold the rights of others. An Irony, since we were intended to be governed "Of the People, By the People, and For the People." We are all responsible.

Giving breaks to people who abuse our rights is an infringement of our rights and trust. It is our responsibility as a people to remove those who do not serve the public trust. and when we don't, that results in the condition we as a country are in. I digress.

Gun safety should be taught in schools. Non revised history, and the reasons for the second amendment should be in the curiculum also, every year. Statisticly, Cheerleading and almost every other sport is more dangerous than Shooting sports in schools. It would be interesting to see who would be for eliminating all sports proven more dangerous than target shooting.
Well said Eyes, and the shoestring analogy is a perfect fit. :cool:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: supsalemgr on January 22, 2013, 10:27:03 AM
It is annoying, but those ploys don't work on here. Everybody gets the chance to say something, but it has to be backed up with some type of proof; conservatives included. A strictly opinion based forum is pretty useless.

When these people show up on here, I'll either attack them or ignore them, depending on my mood. Usually I just ignore them; typing out responses is a waste of my time. :smile:

I try to ignore. Eventually they start responding to their own posts and that is when you know you have gotten them
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 10:40:28 AM
I try to ignore. Eventually they start responding to their own posts and that is when you know you have gotten them

Well, they usually get themselves. They talk around in circles until they have no place to run and hide.

Ironically, I'm listening to Rush right now, and he's speculating that this is the current problem with the republican party. They are being quiet, and praying that Obama and the left collapses under their own socialist crap.

On second thought, when these people show up, I guess I should spend more time on offensive. Our passive republicans sure aren't doing any good by ignoring the problem. :sad:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 11:04:13 AM
"In addition to McKown, five other people were shot but not seriously injured."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting)

I've met Dan, he wasn't my patient but I spoke with him in the ER after transporting mine.

He's a pretty good comedian now and does shows locally in Tacoma and Seattle.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 11:08:31 AM
Christ, do we really have to put up with this ?

I thought this was the only website in the world that hadn't been over run by the new kiddie onslaught.

Lighten up.   Welcome to America and differing opinions.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 11:12:07 AM
Is this just a typical liberal "Feeling", or do you actually have proof of such a claim?

It was a joke, lighten up.  How about some link proving my link is incorrect.  So far it's all opinion about the elite liberal yadda yadda yadda.

Anyone got anything substantive here?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 11:17:41 AM
It was a joke, lighten up.  How about some link proving my link is incorrect.  So far it's all opinion about the elite liberal yadda yadda yadda.

Anyone got anything substantive here?
Then I suggest you make clear when you're joking around.
I'm the last person you want to be telling to lighten up to on this forum.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 11:22:40 AM
It was a joke, lighten up.  How about some link proving my link is incorrect.  So far it's all opinion about the elite liberal yadda yadda yadda.

Anyone got anything substantive here?

Sure. It flies in the face of reality, and is intended to back up the argument for more gun control......which is a crock.

http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2012/07/21/the-declining-culture-of-guns-and-violence-in-the-united-states/ (http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2012/07/21/the-declining-culture-of-guns-and-violence-in-the-united-states/)

NewScientist is also based in the UK. The UK loves gun bans.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 11:29:01 AM
Then I suggest you make clear when you're joking around.
I'm the last person you want to be telling to lighten up to on this forum.

Well you are Solar, so yea, you're pretty light, like a star!  I thought it was a fairly obvious joke.  How could a complete sentence be a simple typo?

The point was to dismiss the notion that since a researcher said something like, "This is just the beginning," then the entire study must be a sham.

Maybe we should allow the CDC to study gun violence to get a better perspective.  Too bad it's illegal for the CDC to study gun violence.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 22, 2013, 11:31:23 AM
"Virtually all gun control advocates say that 30 bullets in a magazine is far too many for self-defense or hunting – even if they have never gone hunting and never had to defend themselves with a gun. This uninformed and self-righteous dogmatism is what makes the gun control debate so futile and so polarizing.

Anyone who faces three home invaders, jeopardizing himself or his family, might find 30 bullets barely adequate. After all, not every bullet hits, even at close range, and not every hit incapacitates. You can get killed by a wounded man."


"Gun control laws allow some people to vent their emotions, politicians to grandstand and self-righteous people to "make a statement" – but all at the cost of other people's lives."


http://lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell125.html (http://lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell125.html)

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 11:44:11 AM
"Virtually all gun control advocates say that 30 bullets in a magazine is far too many for self-defense or hunting – even if they have never gone hunting and never had to defend themselves with a gun. This uninformed and self-righteous dogmatism is what makes the gun control debate so futile and so polarizing.

Anyone who faces three home invaders, jeopardizing himself or his family, might find 30 bullets barely adequate. After all, not every bullet hits, even at close range, and not every hit incapacitates. You can get killed by a wounded man."


"Gun control laws allow some people to vent their emotions, politicians to grandstand and self-righteous people to "make a statement" – but all at the cost of other people's lives."


http://lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell125.html (http://lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell125.html)

Look up the statistical chances that you'll have to actually use a firearm to repel a home invasion.  It's about the same chance you'd have of getting struck with lightning.  Burglars prefer it when no ones home before breaking in.  Just stay home from now on and your fine.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 22, 2013, 11:48:16 AM
Look up the statistical chances that you'll have to actually use a firearm to repel a home invasion.  It's about the same chance you'd have of getting struck with lightning.  Burglars prefer it when no ones home before breaking in.  Just stay home from now on and your fine.
   :huh:


I think you meant "you're" fine

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FNcfcjIhxHo/UH25l69XXUI/AAAAAAAACtk/FYwUwQjR9y4/s400/ostrich+1.jpg)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 22, 2013, 11:51:48 AM
Look up the statistical chances that you'll have to actually use a firearm to repel a home invasion.  It's about the same chance you'd have of getting struck with lightning.  Burglars prefer it when no ones home before breaking in.  Just stay home from now on and your fine.

Burglars also hate when they break into a house with a gun pointed at them.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 11:54:58 AM
Look up the statistical chances that you'll have to actually use a firearm to repel a home invasion.  It's about the same chance you'd have of getting struck with lightning.  Burglars prefer it when no ones home before breaking in.  Just stay home from now on and your fine.

Read the 2nd amendment. It's not about home invasions or hunting:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

It's about the ability to protect our freedom against tyrants. More important now than ever.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 11:55:37 AM
   :huh:


I think you meant "you're" fine

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FNcfcjIhxHo/UH25l69XXUI/AAAAAAAACtk/FYwUwQjR9y4/s400/ostrich+1.jpg)

Yup!  Thanks Conan the Grammarian! 

There you go again with your conservative Ivy league elitist educated crap. Apostrophes are for nerds.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 22, 2013, 11:59:24 AM
Yup!  Thanks Conan the Grammarian! 

There you go again with your conservative Ivy league elitist educated crap. Apostrophes are for nerds.




It doesn't take an Ivy League education to know the difference or recognize a troll.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Bronx on January 22, 2013, 12:01:36 PM
That's like saying driving a car will increase your chances in getting into an accident, that get's a big C"MON MAN
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 12:13:07 PM
Read the 2nd amendment. It's not about home invasions or hunting:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

It's about the ability to protect our freedom against tyrants. More important now than ever.

Good job Sherlock, you solved that one.  I said earlier that the 2nd is outdated and does more harm than good.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 12:17:35 PM
That's like saying driving a car will increase your chances in getting into an accident, that get's a big C"MON MAN

True, and yet through the regulation of our highways, we've minimized deaths.

Sensible rules and regulation like national 55mph speed limit, better roads, better cars, seatbelts, cupholders, fuzzy steering wheel covers.  Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 22, 2013, 12:18:52 PM
Good job Sherlock, you solved that one.  I said earlier that the 2nd is outdated and does more harm than good.
You've established your anti-Americanism....
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 12:21:55 PM
You've established your anti-Americanism....

Americanism is not being a mindless follower of the constitution.  You see, in America, we are free to criticize our government and even *gasps* disagree with the constitution.

But yea, whenever faced with an opposing view point, spew derision and call me un-American. Straight out of Rove's playbook.  How's that working for ya?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 22, 2013, 12:27:11 PM
True, and yet through the regulation of our highways, we've minimized deaths.

Sensible rules and regulation like national 55mph speed limit, better roads, better cars, seatbelts, cupholders, fuzzy steering wheel covers.  Stuff like that.

Prove it.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 22, 2013, 12:28:20 PM
Americanism is not being a mindless follower of the constitution.  You see, in America, we are free to criticize our government and even *gasps* disagree with the constitution.
You are free -- that's the point.

Quote
But yea, whenever faced with an opposing view point, spew derision and call me un-American. Straight out of Rove's playbook.  How's that working for ya?
You're anti-American.  You can't be against freedom and be pro-American.  It doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 12:34:45 PM
Prove it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_Traffic_Safety_Administration#Regulatory_performance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_Traffic_Safety_Administration#Regulatory_performance)

In the mid-1960s when the framework was established for US vehicle safety regulations...

 At that time, the United States had safer traffic than any country in the world, whether measured by the number of traffic deaths per thousand vehicles, or the number of traffic deaths per 100 million miles.

Before and after harmonizing with ECE regulation.

1979 Fatalities                                                                  2002 Fatalities Percent Change
United States 51,093                                                              42,815 -16.2%
Great Britain 6,352                                                                   3,431 -46.0%
Canada 5,863                                                                           2,936 -49.9%
Australia 3,508                                                                         1,715 -51.1%

We still suck at safe highways compared to our peer nations, but still, it's an improvement.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 12:39:26 PM
Americanism is not being a mindless follower of the constitution.  You see, in America, we are free to criticize our government and even *gasps* disagree with the constitution.

But yea, whenever faced with an opposing view point, spew derision and call me un-American. Straight out of Rove's playbook.  How's that working for ya?

There is no Rove playbook.  There is however an actual book written by Alinsky, and one by Machiavelli.  And a few by Ayers.

All at the heart of the Obama strategy.

The truth shall set you free.  Give it a try, it won't hurt.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 22, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_Traffic_Safety_Administration#Regulatory_performance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_Traffic_Safety_Administration#Regulatory_performance)

In the mid-1960s when the framework was established for US vehicle safety regulations...

 At that time, the United States had safer traffic than any country in the world, whether measured by the number of traffic deaths per thousand vehicles, or the number of traffic deaths per 100 million miles.

Before and after harmonizing with ECE regulation.

1979 Fatalities                                                                  2002 Fatalities Percent Change
United States 51,093                                                              42,815 -16.2%
Great Britain 6,352                                                                   3,431 -46.0%
Canada 5,863                                                                           2,936 -49.9%
Australia 3,508                                                                         1,715 -51.1%

We still suck at safe highways compared to our peer nations, but still, it's an improvement.

Try again...
http://www.livescience.com/3870-higher-speed-limits-deaths-study-finds.html (http://www.livescience.com/3870-higher-speed-limits-deaths-study-finds.html)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 12:49:48 PM
Lighten up.   Welcome to America and differing opinions.
uhhhh, I've been here 53 years, served the USAF for 22 of 'em.

You can have opinions all you want, but you can't just say stuff that's either lies or simply ridiculous, and expect that you just "have a special right" to do so, without getting some blowback from reasonable people.

Your nasty outlook on the constitution does indeed make you look un-American.  It's THE THING that's made America the greatest example of freedom, excellence, and service to each other.....EVER.

Little hipster snarkers who get their giggles by insulting the constitution are absolutely un-American.

They are all completely allowed to articulate something intelligent about anything, and propose an amendment that makes sense.  Not just snark away about "mindlessly following the constitution".
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 01:00:06 PM
You are free -- that's the point.
You're anti-American.  You can't be against freedom and be pro-American.  It doesn't work that way.

Guns mean freedom to you?  I think Mexicans have a more profound understanding of freedom than Americans will ever hope to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape)

In Mexico, for instance, escapees who do not break any other laws are not charged for anything and no extra time is added to their sentence;[4] however, officers are allowed to shoot prisoners attempting to escape.[5] In Mexico, an escape is illegal if violence is used against prison personnel or property or if prison inmates or officials aid the escape.[6]

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 01:00:27 PM
And the second amendment is not about blunderbusses, muskets, or the army.

They actually had coined the term "army" prior to that, so if they had actually wanted to say "everybody in the army should have a gun", as simple minded liberals claim......they would have said that.

They said "militia" and "the people" meaning any future militia of any group of people, who would be threatened internally by a despot.

They had actually studied the dictators and despots of England, Spain, France, and so on, and knew that evil people can gain power, oh, at just about any time.

There is no timeframe at which this is nolonger a possibility, so the framers actually envisioned the people being able to form up and protect themselves at any time in the future.

This is literally more important than any signular, tragic event.

I know, let me just cut to the chase and give myself the standard liberal reply...."oh, tell that to the Newtown parents" or "tell that to little Johnnie and Janie, Newtown survivors", or the best, classic "oh oh oh you love to see children slaughtered".

This drivels fools liberals, not adults lol.  Just like they lapped up Obama's little photo-op chilluns on the stage.

The future of a free state, for the next 1000 years, is indeed more important than any tragic event.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 22, 2013, 01:01:34 PM
Guns mean freedom to you?  I think Mexicans have a more profound understanding of freedom than Americans will ever hope to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape)

In Mexico, for instance, escapees who do not break any other laws are not charged for anything and no extra time is added to their sentence;[4] however, officers are allowed to shoot prisoners attempting to escape.[5] In Mexico, an escape is illegal if violence is used against prison personnel or property or if prison inmates or officials aid the escape.[6]

This has nothing to do with anything.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 01:04:23 PM
Guns mean freedom to you?  I think Mexicans have a more profound understanding of freedom than Americans will ever hope to.







haha, the people who hate America always start out by feigning umbrage at the accurate description of their hate.

But they just can't stop the inevitable release of their own words that prove it.

Mexico, the historical bastion of human rights, lmao.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 01:08:05 PM
Good job Sherlock, you solved that one.  I said earlier that the 2nd is outdated and does more harm than good.

uh-oh, another usage of the "momma said I'm smart, and you're not" saw.

Feels so good.........
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 22, 2013, 01:29:15 PM
Guns mean freedom to you?  I think Mexicans have a more profound understanding of freedom than Americans will ever hope to.







haha, the people who hate America always start out by feigning umbrage at the accurate description of their hate.

But they just can't stop the inevitable release of their own words that prove it.

Mexico, the historical bastion of human rights, lmao.

I wouldn't go that far, in fact, that sounds pretty stupid seeing as in Mexico you're guilty until proven innocent.  it's just their philosophy on punishment incorporates ideas on human nature and our desire to be free.

I find it humorous that in order for you to deal with cognitive dissonance is to turn me into an American hating enemy.  Silly jingo.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 22, 2013, 01:48:51 PM
(http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w441/Krellkneen/hindenburg-wide.jpg)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 01:53:45 PM
I have no cognitive dissonance.  I have true and not true, honest and not honest.

I also have what you wrote -

"I think Mexicans have a more profound understanding of freedom than Americans will ever hope to."

There is no honest or logical explanation to this statement, besides a disdain for America, and the belief that the 3rd world is superior.  That's OK, this is a classic Obama pathology.  You're in great company.

Human nature and the desire to be free are covered quite nicely by the US Constitution......not so much by the Mexican govt......lmao.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 01:59:40 PM
Good job Sherlock, you solved that one.  I said earlier that the 2nd is outdated and does more harm than good.

Sorry Capt., you may want to consider cracking open a history book. It in no way supports your argument.

I can provide lots of links, in which gun control preceded genocide.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north367.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north367.html)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 22, 2013, 02:04:27 PM
I think there is an element of cognitive failure here.

No matter the proof, data, history, outcomes....they can't / won't grasp it.

It's the same folks who say "let's try socialism and communism one more time....it'll work this time !!!".

Either that or it's just so fun to be a contrary child, that this is it's own reward, no other reason.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 02:34:32 PM
I think there is an element of cognitive failure here.

No matter the proof, data, history, outcomes....they can't / won't grasp it.

It's the same folks who say "let's try socialism and communism one more time....it'll work this time !!!".

Either that or it's just so fun to be a contrary child, that this is it's own reward, no other reason.

I'm not going to waste too much time on Capt Oblivious............

But I'm curious: Does he subscribe to the official position of the Obama administration; and believe that assault weapons should be provided to the Mexican drug cartels, via the US justice dept, and denied to law abiding US citizens?

I doubt he's heard of fast and furious. If he becomes confused, I'll provide links. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 22, 2013, 02:48:46 PM
I call BS on the whole "study".

Likely these stats are baed on gang bangers, corner yo Boys and assorted criminals shooting at each other over some territorial imperative or rip off.

Show me incidents where honest armed citizens confront armed criminals and come out unscathed....oh wait...the NRA publishes these ancedotes every month...

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: kramarat on January 22, 2013, 02:59:21 PM
I call BS on the whole "study".

Likely these stats are baed on gang bangers, corner yo Boys and assorted criminals shooting at each other over some territorial imperative or rip off.

Show me incidents where honest armed citizens confront armed criminals and come out unscathed....oh wait...the NRA publishes these ancedotes every month...

 :rolleyes:

Agreed. If we were to eliminate all gang related gun crime, the US gun crime stats would nose dive.

Interestingly, we have an administration that calls for amnesty for illegals, and gun bans on the law abiding citizens; and they tell us that we will be safer. :confused:

You were also right on the superior court cases, in one of your other posts. They roll violent felons right back into the street. I've seen it myself.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 22, 2013, 03:03:28 PM
Agreed. If we were to eliminate all gang related gun crime, the US gun crime stats would nose dive.

Interestingly, we have an administration that calls for amnesty for illegals, and gun bans on the law abiding citizens; and they tell us that we will be safer. :confused:

You were also right on the superior court cases, in one of your other posts. They roll violent felons right back into the street. I've seen it myself.

Considering that almost 33% of violent felons imprisoned in various states are illegal aliens and the overwhelming rest of the majority of those incarecerted are repeat ofenders it is very easy to identify the problems.

But we can't have the constituency get locked up behind bars when they should be out there collecting benefits and voting.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 05:13:44 PM
Guns mean freedom to you?  I think Mexicans have a more profound understanding of freedom than Americans will ever hope to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_escape)

In Mexico, for instance, escapees who do not break any other laws are not charged for anything and no extra time is added to their sentence;[4] however, officers are allowed to shoot prisoners attempting to escape.[5] In Mexico, an escape is illegal if violence is used against prison personnel or property or if prison inmates or officials aid the escape.[6]
Capt Oblivious, Wiki is not considered a reference on any reputable forum, Ever.
Using it here to make a point shows two things, one, you are lazy as Hell and two, it exposes your lack of intellect.
If you want to be taken seriously, try using actual references.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 05:16:03 PM
Sorry Capt., you may want to consider cracking open a history book. It in no way supports your argument.

I can provide lots of links, in which gun control preceded genocide.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north367.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north367.html)
His response: "History schmistry, that's yesterdays news, we libs look to tomorrow"...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 22, 2013, 05:23:53 PM
His response: "History schmistry, that's yesterdays news, we libs look to tomorrow"...

By forcing failed liberal policies of yesterday on the country....
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 22, 2013, 05:30:52 PM
By forcing failed liberal policies of yesterday on the country....
That's their idea of Forward or progressive, looking backward.
But in their defense, all the previous communist/Marxists/dictators/fascists just didn't apply liberalism correctly. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Josie on January 23, 2013, 10:54:51 AM

Hey Capt. Long time no see  :smile:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 11:03:48 AM
Hey Capt. Long time no see  :smile:
Where do you know him from?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Josie on January 23, 2013, 11:23:31 AM
Where do you know him from?
Met him on Myspace US political forum, also on the USP outland forum on yuku... He's a nice guy but we obviously don't agree when it comes to politics LOL
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 11:25:54 AM
Met him on Myspace US political forum, also on the USP outland forum on yuku... He's a nice guy but we obviously don't agree when it comes to politics LOL
Thanks, I was just curious, since some thought he came from LNF.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Josie on January 23, 2013, 11:29:16 AM
Thanks, I was just curious, since some thought he came from LNF.
He may have posted there too but idk cause I havent been on there much ... it's not much fun there without Harry.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: CubaLibre on January 23, 2013, 11:32:48 AM
He may have posted there too but idk cause I havent been on there much ... it's not much fun there without Harry.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 11:40:49 AM
He may have posted there too but idk cause I havent been on there much ... it's not much fun there without Harry.
Harry quit too? :confused:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 23, 2013, 11:50:03 AM
By forcing failed liberal policies of yesterday on the country....

It's the only way for them to ignore the failures of today.....
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: taxed on January 23, 2013, 11:54:47 AM
He may have posted there too but idk cause I havent been on there much ... it's not much fun there without Harry.

Sorry I let you down :-(
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 12:39:20 PM
uhhhh, I've been here 53 years, served the USAF for 22 of 'em.

You can have opinions all you want, but you can't just say stuff that's either lies or simply ridiculous, and expect that you just "have a special right" to do so, without getting some blowback from reasonable people.

Your nasty outlook on the constitution does indeed make you look un-American.  It's THE THING that's made America the greatest example of freedom, excellence, and service to each other.....EVER.

Little hipster snarkers who get their giggles by insulting the constitution are absolutely un-American.

They are all completely allowed to articulate something intelligent about anything, and propose an amendment that makes sense.  Not just snark away about "mindlessly following the constitution".

I just don't believe anything created by man particularly a document, need be sacred. Again, the founders knew it was a fallible document and of course included an amendment process for when it needs to adapt.

I find it telling that because you believe I have a nasty outlook on the constitution, I must hate America.  Our founders debated over each provision, were they also un-American for arguing their views?

Maybe those confederates were  un-American for not agreeing with the abolition of slavery. Would you say that?  Or is it just people who don't agree with the glorious 2nd?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Shooterman on January 23, 2013, 12:39:39 PM
Has anyone heard from Harry?

I look in on the Loose Nut Forum occasionally, see most of the same children posting, and leave.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Shooterman on January 23, 2013, 12:41:27 PM
Has anyone heard from Harry?

I look in on the Loose Nut Forum occasionally, see most of the same children posting, and leave.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 12:44:23 PM
Hey Capt. Long time no see  :smile:

Wow!  Surprise surprise!  Nice to you again Josie!  USP Outlands is really pretty dead, they all went to e-face it seems.  I still avoid Book Face like the plague but I did break down and make a profile.  =-(

Thought I'd break it up bit and take some lumps over here.  I sense a banning soon though if I don't fall in line it seems. Heh.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: supsalemgr on January 23, 2013, 12:56:27 PM
I just don't believe anything created by man particularly a document, need be sacred. Again, the founders knew it was a fallible document and of course included an amendment process for when it needs to adapt.

I find it telling that because you believe I have a nasty outlook on the constitution, I must hate America.  Our founders debated over each provision, were they also un-American for arguing their views?

Maybe those confederates were  un-American for not agreeing with the abolition of slavery. Would you say that?  Or is it just people who don't agree with the glorious 2nd?

"Again, the founders knew it was a fallible document and of course included an amendment process for when it needs to adapt."

Based on that response I take it that Cpt.Obvious believes that 2nd amendment should be left as it is until it is amended?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 01:06:10 PM
"Again, the founders knew it was a fallible document and of course included an amendment process for when it needs to adapt."

Based on that response I take it that Cpt.Obvious believes that 2nd amendment should be left as it is until it is amended?

Yes, something that likely will not happen unless it's a push from the right to clear up the language and remove the Well regulated militia part.

I am still governed by our constitution and therefore an American.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 01:38:18 PM
You are clearly an American.

Your disdain or lack thereof for America is what defines what type of American you are.

We see this all the time from liberals.  "I'm the greatest Catholic ever because I'm always denigrating the church !".  "I'm the greatest American ever because I run around screaming loudly about everything that's wrong with America !".  "I'm an awesome patriot because I crap all over the military whenever possible !".

It doesn't really work that way.  We know that liberals like to claim that trashing and insulting and denigrating  is a way to "show you care, so much that you're fixing everything that's wrong".

A sincere, intelligent, non-juvenile person can speak reasonably about their beliefs, and those of others.  And accept the fact that they don't have a monopoly on "what's right".

"Mindlessly following" and "gun to their heads" indicate that you have no plans to do this.  And you certainly aren't as bad as many liberals, this much is true.

But you still have a little trouble understanding the difference between presenting a competing belief, and scoffing, mocking, insulting everything traditional and conservative.

But hey, you're in good company with your dear leader -

"Typical white person"
"Cops acted stupidly"
"Clinging to bibles and guns"
"Never proud of America before they elected Barack"
"You didn't build that"
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: supsalemgr on January 23, 2013, 01:39:13 PM
Yes, something that likely will not happen unless it's a push from the right to clear up the language and remove the Well regulated militia part.

I am still governed by our constitution and therefore an American.

Thanks you.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: walkstall on January 23, 2013, 01:45:49 PM
Has anyone heard from Harry?

I look in on the Loose Nut Forum occasionally, see most of the same children posting, and leave.

He posted to Droog just the other day in the Loose Nut Forum.  Just to say hi is all.  He is lurking but not posting.   As I am sure he is here also, I think he has just given himself a time out.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Shooterman on January 23, 2013, 01:46:04 PM
Yes, something that likely will not happen unless it's a push from the right to clear up the language and remove the Well regulated militia part.

I am still governed by our constitution and therefore an American.

What do you dislike about the well regulated militia clause?

What exactly was a 'well regulated militia' at the time?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 01:49:54 PM
You are clearly an American.

Your disdain or lack thereof for America is what defines what type of American you are.

We see this all the time from liberals.  "I'm the greatest Catholic ever because I'm always denigrating the church !".  "I'm the greatest American ever because I run around screaming loudly about everything that's wrong with America !".  "I'm an awesome patriot because I crap all over the military whenever possible !".

It doesn't really work that way.  We know that liberals like to claim that trashing and insulting and denigrating  is a way to "show you care, so much that you're fixing everything that's wrong".

A sincere, intelligent, non-juvenile person can speak reasonably about their beliefs, and those of others.  And accept the fact that they don't have a monopoly on "what's right".

"Mindlessly following" and "gun to their heads" indicate that you have no plans to do this.  And you certainly aren't as bad as many liberals, this much is true.

But you still have a little trouble understanding the difference between presenting a competing belief, and scoffing, mocking, insulting everything traditional and conservative.

But hey, you're in good company with your dear leader -

"Typical white person"
"Cops acted stupidly"
"Clinging to bibles and guns"
"Never proud of America before they elected Barack"
"You didn't build that"

Thank you for validating me, was kind of worried for s sec.  I am an American but also a citizen of the world, like Ben Franklin.

I find it interesting you accuse me of all sorts of things up to and including shitting on our military anytime I can.  VN war was before my time and I would have likely served or been drafted anyway, had I been alive then.  No, I would not have spit on our returning soldiers.

Go ahead and paint me into your little box labeled "liberals," If you must.  Going to be rather difficult to convince me of your world view if I'm constantly demonized.  Just a little debate tip, probably shouldn't piss all over the audience you wish to persuade.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 01:51:11 PM
lol, their whole strategy is to change the meanings of everything in the constitution to what they want, under the guise of "living document" and ""things change".

2nd is only about "the army", though there was an army at that time, and they didn't say that.
14th is only about "a liberal president doing whatever he says must be done".
"Pursuit of happiness" is anything and everything a liberal feels like doing, no filth or crime excluded.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 01:52:00 PM
What do you dislike about the well regulated militia clause?

What exactly was a 'well regulated militia' at the time?

I don't mind that clause at all but you should.  You should amend it and remove that language, really make the 2nd clear.  Just pro tip, keep it for free.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 01:55:18 PM
Thank you for validating me, was kind of worries for s sec.  I am an American but also a citizen of the world, like Ben Franklin.

I find it interesting you accuse me of all sorts of things up to and including shitting on our military anytime I can.  VN war was before my time and I would have likely served or been drafted anyway, had I been alive then.  No, I would not have spit on our returning soldiers.

Go ahead and paint me into your little box labeled "liberals," If you must.  Going to be rather difficult to convince me of your world view if I'm constantly demonized.  Just a little debate tip, probably shouldn't piss all over the audience you wish to persuade.

I didn't tie you to anything military, or Vietnam.  Go back and read more closely.  Then reply honestly in your next post.

I don't care to persuade you of anything.  I'm commenting on your language and antics.

Why do liberals pretend they're not liberal  ?  That's always fascinated me.  I've always guessed that it's just part of the mosaic of never-ending little dishonesties that must propagate each liberal post (everything but the kitchen sink, lol).  But go ahead and correct me if it's something more interesting than that.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 02:00:45 PM
I don't mind that clause at all but you should.  You should amend it and remove that language, really make the 2nd clear.  Just pro tip, keep it for free.
What could be more clear than "well regulated militia", since it's not the federal army, and over the centuries could take many forms depending on the internal threat, or dictator.

The founders were much more intelligent than you (really everybody, to be fair), despite your insinuation that they must have bolloxed up everything because you disagree with it.  They were specific at the right times, and generic at the right times, and created a process for change that would be reserved for only the most important, agreed-upon needs....not the whims of a bunch of political hacks.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 02:08:00 PM
Whatever Andy, you can stop wasting your time. I'm here to debate, argue, and learn.  The title of this forum is Political Discussion and Debate.

Maybe you'd prefer The Conservative Political Discussion and Circle Jerk?  You won't have to be trouble with debate.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 02:13:03 PM
ahhh, circle jerk.

I told you already, we only have to keep folks like you engaged to see your true colors leak out.

You pretend to not be liberal, to be a real patriot, and to be super-de-duper smarter than the conservative rubes.

But the real you is showing.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 02:27:34 PM
ahhh, circle jerk.

I told you already, we only have to keep folks like you engaged to see your true colors leak out.

You pretend to not be liberal, to be a real patriot, and to be super-de-duper smarter than the conservative rubes.

But the real you is showing.

I sound super educated?  Cheer mate!  Very kind of you. I want to art college though, so unexpected.  I am a card carrying democrat and a liberal.  That should have been painfully obvious even to you.

What makes you think I'm pretending to not be predominantly liberal and left wing?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 02:33:36 PM
"paint me into your little box labeled liberals" is what you said.  Not exactly identifying yourself as a liberal, in fact insinuating quite the opposite.

I didn't say you were educated, I said that your snarky, smarmy little asides drip with "I'm smart / smarter".

It's obvious that you're a liberal, as your serial little dishonesties and half-truths and continual inaccurate "quotes" attest to.  That's not even in question.  Your dodgy little approach is the issue.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 02:43:00 PM
I don't mind that clause at all but you should.  You should amend it and remove that language, really make the 2nd clear.  Just pro tip, keep it for free.
As I pointed out once before, if you understood the meaning behind it, you wouldn't expose your ignorance every time the subject is broached.
Jefferson spoke on the subject, Madison wrote about it in the the Federalist papers.
Here is a simplified version you might be able to grasp.
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html (http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 02:59:34 PM
And by "issue" I mean point in question.  Not "issue" as in "it actually matters" lol.

You do seem to be a fairly nice person.  Better than most liberals.

But you still do have all the annoying, cloying, oblivious attributes.  A lot of what you say is silly and/or annoying, and you're oblivious to it, apparently thinking that this is how it's done.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Shooterman on January 23, 2013, 03:01:42 PM
I don't mind that clause at all but you should.  You should amend it and remove that language, really make the 2nd clear.  Just pro tip, keep it for free.

WHY?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 03:03:32 PM
lol, that little quip keeps taking a pounding.

It feels like she just thinks it's obvious and can't be questioned, though.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 03:05:19 PM
And by "issue" I mean point in question.  Not "issue" as in "it actually matters" lol.

You do seem to be a fairly nice person.  Better than most liberals.

But you still do have all the annoying, cloying, oblivious attributes.  A lot of what you say is silly and/or annoying, and you're oblivious to it, apparently thinking that this is how it's done.
It is, if you only listen to, or watch network news/media.
MSNBC is full of this kind of myopic thinking, history is old news, were Progressives, Forward thinkers, we can't be bothered with documents written by old white guys 200+ years ago.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: JustKari on January 23, 2013, 03:08:04 PM
Wait...you went to art school, but you work in a hospital... :huh:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 03:11:23 PM
It is funny, their mythology.

You'd never know that Joe McCarthy was correct in most of his claims and accusations.  They just yell "McCarthyism" as if they have a point.

You'd never know that virtually every stance Romney took was sharp and accurate.  Not with the focus on dogs on the car roof, beating up fellow 9th graders 50 years ago, killing that guy's wife, not filing tax returns for 20 years, and so on.

You'd never know that Akin's quote was about lying, padded statistics about rape abortions.  Of course not...he was saying that some rapes are good, OBVIOUSLY.

The whole leftist operation is built on a framework of daily lying.  Supported by the media. And it's working for now.  God help us if we don't find a counter to it.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 03:15:37 PM
WHY?

There'd be no more debate as to the meaning.  I know it's been upheld in the Scotus to mean an individuals right to bear arms, let's make the wording less ambiguous regardless of a Scotus ruling.

It's the least clear of all the amendments. Are you supposed to be in a well regulated militia to carry a firearm?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 03:18:17 PM
Wait...you went to art school, but you work in a hospital... :huh:
haha, awesome.

If you keep them blabbing long enough, they will accidentally let out some truths that blow up their carefully cultivated alter egos.

On the other PF, it was slowly discovered that most of the bigmouth, imperious liberals were 15 to 20 years old, one failed out of school and took welfare falsely until he could get back ahead, one was a convict, and most of them haven't had jobs in a long, long time.  All Obama fans, of course.

If one only knew the skeevy, dirty people behind these know-it-all blowhards, it would be astonishing.

But that's the wonder of the internet.  The people who were formerly hidden by their families, or even too ashamed themselves to venture outside....are now the smartest, loudest folks on every site.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 03:19:36 PM
Wait...you went to art school, but you work in a hospital... :huh:

I know right?!  I did go back to school after failing at being a rock star, but still.  I should be fired immediately, totally agree.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 03:21:03 PM
There'd be no more debate as to the meaning.  I know it's been upheld in the Scotus to mean an individuals right to bear arms, let's make the wording less ambiguous regardless of a Scotus ruling.

It's the least clear of all the amendments. Are you supposed to be in a well regulated militia to carry a firearm?
It says nothing of the sort.  Step back, grab the reigns of honesty, and join us in glorious adultness.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 03:27:50 PM
There'd be no more debate as to the meaning.  I know it's been upheld in the Scotus to mean an individuals right to bear arms, let's make the wording less ambiguous regardless of a Scotus ruling.

It's the least clear of all the amendments. Are you supposed to be in a well regulated militia to carry a firearm?


All you have to be is a "people".

Billy
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 03:29:12 PM
haha, awesome.

If you keep them blabbing long enough, they will accidentally let out some truths that blow up their carefully cultivated alter egos.

On the other PF, it was slowly discovered that most of the bigmouth, imperious liberals were 15 to 20 years old, one failed out of school and took welfare falsely until he could get back ahead, one was a convict, and most of them haven't had jobs in a long, long time.  All Obama fans, of course.

If one only knew the skeevy, dirty people behind these know-it-all blowhards, it would be astonishing.

But that's the wonder of the internet.  The people who were formerly hidden by their families, or even too ashamed themselves to venture outside....are now the smartest, loudest folks on every site.

Stop being so foolish, it's unbecoming.

You are aware that people sometimes retrain and return to school for an education throughout their adult life?  Probably why I'm so elite.  I have a fairly useless music degree and also a certification!

*holds chin high*
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 23, 2013, 03:30:10 PM
A well regulated militia is that which will be created at any time, based on the individual's right to bear arms.

In their time, the founders saw many militias of every possible form and identity.

This is how freedom is kept during anarchy, confusion, and oppression.  Citizens need to react, and need to be able to fight to see another day if they face an armed dictator and his/her army.

I don't know if your revisionist liberal history allows for it, but part of the dialogue of the axis powers and the idea of invading America.......was that they'd never do it, because the citizens were too well armed even without the military.

I'm sure it never happened, and really is quite impossible, in liberal land.  Just like guns never really save anyone, streets always run red with blood whenever gun laws are relaxed, and guns are the culprit in human violence.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 03:31:02 PM

All you have to be is a "people".

Billy

A well regulated people!

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: walkstall on January 23, 2013, 03:44:58 PM

Wait...you went to art school, but you work in a hospital... :huh:


I know right?!  I did go back to school after failing at being a rock star, but still.  I should be fired immediately, totally agree.


Hmm...Capt.Obvious said in post 90, Political Discussion and Debate / Re: One more reason why the Lib Gun attack is wrong « on: January 21, 2013, 16:20:31 »

Quote
I'm a paramedic
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 04:07:05 PM


Hmm...Capt.Obvious said in post 90, Political Discussion and Debate / Re: One more reason why the Lib Gun attack is wrong « on: January 21, 2013, 16:20:31 »

I'm elite and double educated. You also might want to look up the connection between music and medical arts. It seems musically inclined people are also attracted to medicine.

I assume it's because we're so awesome. 
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Byteryder on January 23, 2013, 04:17:22 PM
Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed

Any time one chooses to defend themsleves rather than pass that job off to someone else, the assume greater risks.

I'd suggest the liklyhood of death or injuy to the ciminal increases far more than to the victim.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 04:22:42 PM
There'd be no more debate as to the meaning.  I know it's been upheld in the Scotus to mean an individuals right to bear arms, let's make the wording less ambiguous regardless of a Scotus ruling.

It's the least clear of all the amendments. Are you supposed to be in a well regulated militia to carry a firearm?
Are you avoiding my posts because you hate facts?
I repeat!

As I pointed out once before, if you understood the meaning behind it, you wouldn't expose your ignorance every time the subject is broached.
Jefferson spoke on the subject, Madison wrote about it in the the Federalist papers.
Here is a simplified version you might be able to grasp.
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html (http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 04:23:02 PM
Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed

Any time one chooses to defend themsleves rather than pass that job off to someone else, the assume greater risks.

I'd suggest the liklyhood of death or injuy to the ciminal increases far more than to the victim.
Excellent point!
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Shooterman on January 23, 2013, 04:32:30 PM
There'd be no more debate as to the meaning.  I know it's been upheld in the Scotus to mean an individuals right to bear arms, let's make the wording less ambiguous regardless of a Scotus ruling.

It's the least clear of all the amendments. Are you supposed to be in a well regulated militia to carry a firearm?

No! Because men were armed, they were in the militia. Well regulated simply meant well trained and well equipped, with every terrible weapon of the regular army. Pre-state days, BTW, the states formed the union, the union did not form the states, everyone from 16 to 60 were required upon moving into a community or region to have a weapon, so much powder, so many rounds for projectiles, two blankets, and enough food to sustain him while in the field. If he was mounted, he was required to have fodder for his mount. Later, the requirements generally was reduced to 16 to 45 years of age. They were the first line of defense against invasion, whether foreign, by another state, by bands of Indians, or by gangs of criminals.

If an individual did not have the money, or a sponsor, or could borrow the money, he was indentured and the necessary equipment and rifle or musket, furnished him. He stayed indentured until the debt was paid in full. He was required to once a month, present himself upon the green, with his weapons for drill and marksmanship practice.
 
That, Sir, was the well regulated militia. My fifth, fourth, and third great grand paps fought with militias. By the War of 1812, most militias were voluntary. My second great grand pap enlisted out of Angelina County in Texas with Hoods Brigade to fight the Blue Bellies.

You are a member of the militia, unorganized, most probably, but still a member unless the upper age limits have gotten you. I would, of necessity, be too old.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 04:34:38 PM
Didn't Chicago ban hand guns?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 04:36:50 PM
Are you avoiding my posts because you hate facts?
I repeat!

As I pointed out once before, if you understood the meaning behind it, you wouldn't expose your ignorance every time the subject is broached.
Jefferson spoke on the subject, Madison wrote about it in the the Federalist papers.
Here is a simplified version you might be able to grasp.
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html (http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html)

I'm ignoring your posts because they are passive aggressive and derisive.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 04:40:23 PM
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Solar! Stop being passive aggressive! It's upsetting the tourists....
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 04:49:51 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Solar! Stop being passive aggressive! It's upsetting the tourists....

I always thought libs were the masters of passive aggressive snobiness anyway.   
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 07:46:52 PM
I'm ignoring your posts because they are passive aggressive and derisive.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Face it, you haven't got what it takes to debate where facts are concerned.

I don't deal in emotion, nor do I tolerate ignorant children that come to adult forums to spew leftist BS.
You either respond to my posts or find another forum to pollute.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 07:48:46 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Solar! Stop being passive aggressive! It's upsetting the tourists....
:laugh:
Since when in "In Your Face with facts, passive?
Aggressive, yes, passive? That's a lib ploy.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 08:20:52 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Face it, you haven't got what it takes to debate where facts are concerned.

I don't deal in emotion, nor do I tolerate ignorant children that come to adult forums to spew leftist BS.
You either respond to my posts or find another forum to pollute.

I brought facts kiddo.  I also supported my posts with links and a study.  I just think you're a waste of time and have nothing to contribute to the conversation at this point. 

There, I responded.  What else you got?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2013, 08:24:00 PM
I brought facts kiddo.  I also supported my posts with links and a study.  I just think you're a waste of time and have nothing to contribute to the conversation at this point. 

There, I responded.  What else you got?
And I proved you wrong, yet it still went over your head.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 08:25:58 PM
And I proved you wrong, yet it still went over your head.

You did?  Do tell.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 08:30:23 PM
You did?  Do tell.
Be careful. He might hurt your feelings by being passive aggressive...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 08:48:24 PM
Be careful. He might hurt your feelings by being passive aggressive...

I'm not afraid, I got you here to hold my hand.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 23, 2013, 11:03:48 PM
A well regulated people!

Lets try it again shall we.

After all that stuff 'bout Da Ma-Lisha (what a lovely name for a baby girl!) we are left with....

The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Armies, Navies and Militias are made up of  and staffed by PEOPLE.....


just an aside but it doesn't say anything about what type of "arms"...which could be anything like a bow and arrow (which Ben Franklin proposed we arm the Continental Army with...tomahawks, knives, pike's swords, cannons, swivel guns or a big club.

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 11:27:17 PM
Lets try it again shall we.

After all that stuff 'bout Da Ma-Lisha (what a lovely name for a baby girl!) we are left with....

The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Armies, Navies and Militias are made up of  and staffed by PEOPLE.....


just an aside but it doesn't say anything about what type of "arms"...which could be anything like a bow and arrow (which Ben Franklin proposed we arm the Continental Army with...tomahawks, knives, pike's swords, cannons, swivel guns or a big club.

Family Guy Right To Bear Arms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RablPaIREkk#)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 12:21:16 AM
I'm not afraid, I got you here to hold my hand.
No sir. You lost the debate pages ago and are now just embarrassing. Sort of like bringing your first girlfriend home to meet your parents and they are break dancing.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 01:01:22 AM
No sir. You lost the debate pages ago and are now just embarrassing. Sort of like bringing your first girlfriend home to meet your parents and they are break dancing.

Lost? 
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 06:15:10 AM
Lost?
Are you really that clueless?
Hell, I just nailed your girlfriend. Did you not notice

You lost this debate for one reason, you know nothing of history, or why it occurred, if you studied it more and understood the Bill of Rights, you wouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place.
Agree or disagree with the Second Amendment, had you understood it's purpose, you would have avoided this argument, it's not an emotional issue as you see it, it's a law, a law written by God.
Which opens a whole other can of worms, remove God, and the Bill of Rights is easier to destroy.
Starting to get the bigger picture now?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 12:32:28 PM
Are you really that clueless?
Hell, I just nailed your girlfriend. Did you not notice

You lost this debate for one reason, you know nothing of history, or why it occurred, if you studied it more and understood the Bill of Rights, you wouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place.
Agree or disagree with the Second Amendment, had you understood it's purpose, you would have avoided this argument, it's not an emotional issue as you see it, it's a law, a law written by God.
Which opens a whole other can of worms, remove God, and the Bill of Rights is easier to destroy.
Starting to get the bigger picture now?
]

I accept your concession of defeat.  You can't debate me, so you dismiss me for not knowing history when I probably know more about history, science and the bible than you do.

Is that how repugnicans debate?  You nailed my girlfriend?  Are you in High school?  If so, I apologize for coming off as such a hard ass, you're clearly just a kid.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 12:38:10 PM
http://hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.html (http://hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.html)

Does not sound too ambiguous to me. Nor does this

http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt2_user.html#amdt2_hd2 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt2_user.html#amdt2_hd2)

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 12:45:09 PM
http://hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.html (http://hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.html)

Does not sound too ambiguous to me. Nor does this

http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt2_user.html#amdt2_hd2 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt2_user.html#amdt2_hd2)

"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done."
 --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.

So according to Jefferson, you have to go to college and take military courses to be a truly rocking militia.  Ya know, well regulated.

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: JustKari on January 24, 2013, 01:23:19 PM
Quote
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason Co-author of the Second Amendment

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 24, 2013, 01:42:26 PM
I'm elite and double educated. You also might want to look up the connection between music and medical arts. It seems musically inclined people are also attracted to medicine.

I assume it's because we're so awesome.
You lost because every time you get in a tight spot regarding sources or logic, you post silly crap like this.

And you were caught in a fairly obvious lie about your background.

Not too many art student-EMT's out there.  Or foolish acting liberal EMT's, same with police and firefighters.

Is it impossible ?  No, so I won't act like a liberal and announce that it is.  But it's highly, highly unlikely.

I'd say 5-10% likelihood that you're anything but a 15-20 year-old pretending to be something you're not, while spouting what you learned in a liberal-flavored social studies class.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: raptor5618 on January 24, 2013, 02:01:49 PM
Must be nice to only see the imaginary world in your head.  It is pretty clear that the right to bear arms is an individual right and not just a right for someone who joined some military group. 
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
You lost because every time you get in a tight spot regarding sources or logic, you post silly crap like this.

And you were caught in a fairly obvious lie about your background.

Not too many art student-EMT's out there.  Or foolish acting liberal EMT's, same with police and firefighters.

Is it impossible ?  No, so I won't act like a liberal and announce that it is.  But it's highly, highly unlikely.

I'd say 5-10% likelihood that you're anything but a 15-20 year-old pretending to be something you're not, while spouting what you learned in a liberal-flavored social studies class.

 How is that a lie about my background?   You do realize people go back to school right?  I even at one point went to a CC for ground school kicked around the idea of being a pilot but the closest I got was owning and flying an ultra light, close enough.  You should try some additional  education sometime.

There's political persuasions of all stripes working as police, firefighters and EMT's.  I've had for more partners that were in fact democrat liberal than anything else, both EMT's and RN's on the critical care bus. Probably a function of working in liberal Tacoma and to be fair, plenty of employees are pretty hardcore right wing.  it's a mix.

Come fly with me as I chase my buddy around Waterville WA on his too fast motorcycle.

Exclusive video of epic dogfight engagement between a Flight Star Ultralight pilot and an FZ1 bogey! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgJs0NsAeUY#)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 05:38:44 PM
Family Guy Right To Bear Arms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RablPaIREkk#)

So you are basing your arguement on a cartoon?...One that features an uber liberal talking dog?

I'm disappointed, really I am.
so much for your double education.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 06:36:21 PM
Why are people giving this kid attention?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 06:44:15 PM
Why are people giving this kid attention?

Stop being so stupid.  Bobby Jindal would not approve.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 06:52:26 PM
Why are people giving this kid attention?

You reading what this dude is posting? He was an EMT and all the education, flying airplanes blah blah blah....you think this could be that Loon Tenny from LNF?


All he needs is the part about being independantly wealthy from some kind of endowment he invested in apple or some such nonsense.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 06:53:08 PM
You reading what this dude is posting? He was an EMT and all the education, flying airplanes blah blah blah....you think this could be that Loon Tenny from LNF?


All he needs is the part about being independantly wealthy from some kind of endowment he invested in apple or some such nonsense.

We saw the same schtick at the LNF...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 06:55:55 PM
You reading what this dude is posting? He was an EMT and all the education, flying airplanes blah blah blah....you think this could be that Loon Tenny from LNF?


All he needs is the part about being independantly wealthy from some kind of endowment he invested in apple or some such nonsense.

Tenebaum craps bigger than you.

Josie knows.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 06:57:43 PM
We saw the same schtick at the LNF...

The guy posted last year as "Tennyson" he was banned previously under a numer of other names, he kept coming back and saying stuff like this about his background especially  the EMT firefighter part then dropped off the radar...I thought maybe prison or the ding ward.

lot of similarities but many of these lefties have Walter Mitty fantasy's.

Billy
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 07:00:09 PM
The guy posted last year as "Tennyson" he was banned previously under a numer of other names, he kept coming back and saying stuff like this about his background especially  the EMT firefighter part then dropped off the radar...I thought maybe prison or the ding ward.

lot of similarities but many of these lefties have Walter Mitty fantasy's.

Billy

This is what Jindal is talking about, stop being so stupid.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 07:06:35 PM
This is what Jindal is talking about, stop being so stupid.

Once again you are the guy talking about being double educated and how smart you are and the best you can do is post cartoons and make third grade level posts like the one above.

But I  take it back...you are not Tenny or Tenebaum or Tennyson or whomever...he could come back with stuff a heck of a lot better than this.

PS...do you even know what "Walter Mitty" syndrome is? 
I'll wait while you go google it up coz we both know you don't Mr double scholar.

Billy
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 07:08:32 PM
The guy posted last year as "Tennyson" he was banned previously under a numer of other names, he kept coming back and saying stuff like this about his background especially  the EMT firefighter part then dropped off the radar...I thought maybe prison or the ding ward.

lot of similarities but many of these lefties have Walter Mitty fantasy's.

Billy

All good things must come to an end...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 07:12:35 PM
The guy posted last year as "Tennyson" he was banned previously under a numer of other names, he kept coming back and saying stuff like this about his background especially  the EMT firefighter part then dropped off the radar...I thought maybe prison or the ding ward.

lot of similarities but many of these lefties have Walter Mitty fantasy's.

Billy

I think a lot of MySpace kids are space cadets all have the same MO.  Life is a game to them.   As we know, life has a funny way of coming back and kicking you in the ass when you least expect it.   :sneaky:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 07:20:17 PM
I think a lot of MySpace kids are space cadets all have the same MO.  Life is a game to them.   As we know, life has a funny way of coming back and kicking you in the ass when you least expect it.   :sneaky:
Nailed it!!!
They will look back on these days and regret not listening to those of us with experience, but that's how kids learn, doing it the hard way and not listening to their elders.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 07:29:02 PM
Nailed it!!!
They will look back on these days and regret not listening to those of us with experience, but that's how kids learn, doing it the hard way and not listening to their elders.

But we always end up paying for their mistakes through entitlements...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Phillip on January 24, 2013, 07:30:51 PM
Capt.Obvious isn't Tenny BTW.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 07:33:00 PM
Capt.Obvious isn't Tenny BTW.

Funny how I mention Tenny and then YOU show up on this board

Billy
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 07:33:15 PM
Once again you are the guy talking about being double educated and how smart you are and the best you can do is post cartoons and make third grade level posts like the one above.

But I  take it back...you are not Tenny or Tenebaum or Tennyson or whomever...he could come back with stuff a heck of a lot better than this.

PS...do you even know what "Walter Mitty" syndrome is? 
I'll wait while you go google it up coz we both know you don't Mr double scholar.

Billy

Taken in context, my remark was expressing surprise at being considered so educated since I went to art college.  A two year technical certification and a ground school class is hardly super educated. Maybe it is for you, in which case I apologize for making you feel insecure.

I'm of the mind that I always have way more to learn.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Phillip on January 24, 2013, 07:34:03 PM
Funny how I mention Tenny and then YOU show up on this board

Billy


I've been meaning to sign up for a while. I thank you for the warm welcome.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 24, 2013, 07:39:42 PM

I've been meaning to sign up for a while. I thank you for the warm welcome.

Welcome you are....Truth be told I kinda miss Tenny.

Billy
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Cyborg on January 24, 2013, 07:46:09 PM
It it was a University Study it was flawed from the First Day.

They all have an anti-gun agenda. If it's not "all" it's 98%.

Over the years I have volunteered for Polls -
I have taken several hundred political polls. They are all skewed - intentionally!!!!!

 
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Phillip on January 24, 2013, 07:47:23 PM
Welcome you are....Truth be told I kinda miss Tenny.

Billy


As do I since I haven't seen him in a few months.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 08:13:03 PM
Taken in context, my remark was expressing surprise at being considered so educated since I went to art college.  A two year technical certification and a ground school class is hardly super educated. Maybe it is for you, in which case I apologize for making you feel insecure.

I'm of the mind that I always have way more to learn.
Nothing wrong with art school, expanding ones sphere of knowledge is always good.
I fail miserably at art...
However, it might not hurt to take a history class while you're at it. :wink:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 08:22:01 PM
Nothing wrong with art school, expanding ones sphere of knowledge is always good.
I fail miserably at art...
However, it might not hurt to take a history class while you're at it. :wink:

What is history but fable agreed upon. 
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 08:24:35 PM
What is history but fable agreed upon.

 Beats me. Ask Joséphine. She's a bit clever...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 24, 2013, 08:24:55 PM
What is history but fable agreed upon.
Obviously it is in your world.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 09:04:01 PM
Obviously it is in your world.

There are three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth. 
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 09:15:06 PM
Trolls aside the one thing the left fails to understand is criminals don't obey laws...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Rockntractor on January 24, 2013, 09:15:44 PM
There are three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth.
I don't have the patients to go on with all the formalities so I'll just cut through the chase and call you a fucking idiot, life is to short, have a nice day.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: walkstall on January 24, 2013, 09:26:08 PM
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/sue3843/ouch.gif)


I don't have the patients to go on with all the formalities so I'll just cut through the chase and call you a fucking idiot, life is to short, have a nice day.

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Rockntractor on January 24, 2013, 09:40:59 PM
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/sue3843/ouch.gif)
I know, I've been this way since the election.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 09:51:54 PM
I don't have the patients to go on with all the formalities so I'll just cut through the chase and call you a fucking idiot, life is to short, have a nice day.

(http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w441/Krellkneen/beard-slap-1_zps6a11c9b2.gif)
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 10:06:25 PM
Trolls aside the one thing the left fails to understand is criminals don't obey laws...

You're a criminal.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 10:09:36 PM
I know, I've been this way since the election.

Been like what sine the election?

A butt hurt sore loser?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 24, 2013, 10:09:45 PM
You're a criminal.

Goodbye...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Capt.Obvious on January 24, 2013, 10:12:53 PM
Goodbye...

So you never so much as committed a traffic infraction?  You are either paradigm of moral responsibility or a liar.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Nautical Underpants on January 24, 2013, 10:14:23 PM
So you never so much as committed a traffic infraction?  You are either paradigm of moral responsibility or a liar.

Go Whine about me and the CPF at the LNF...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Nautical Underpants on January 24, 2013, 10:33:17 PM
All good things must come to an end...

You were so right. I love that man of mine...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Rockntractor on January 24, 2013, 10:34:14 PM
The pause that refreshes! :biggrin:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 25, 2013, 04:32:01 AM
When I logged on at 4:00 am and saw Nautical Underpants I knew someone had called clean up on aisle 6, 7, 8, and 9.
Please, if all of you would avoid these aisles till the floor dries and we can clear the air of the stench.
Thank you - The management....
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: walkstall on January 25, 2013, 07:49:32 AM
When I logged on at 4:00 am and saw Nautical Underpants I knew someone had called clean up on aisle 6, 7, 8, and 9.
Please, if all of you would avoid these aisles till the floor dries and we can clear the air of the stench.
Thank you - The management....

Not all things are free, something come with consequences.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 25, 2013, 09:38:31 AM
The guy posted last year as "Tennyson" he was banned previously under a numer of other names, he kept coming back and saying stuff like this about his background especially  the EMT firefighter part then dropped off the radar...I thought maybe prison or the ding ward.

lot of similarities but many of these lefties have Walter Mitty fantasy's.

Billy

There's a carefully cultivated character over at the other PF named Margot.  He or she shows up on a couple other sites, same name.

He/She claims to be an old lady who grew up wealthy as the daughter of an oilman in the middle east, knows absolutely everything about the history of all the countries, sects, tribes, etc. of the middle east.  Of course anti-America / pro Islam, anti-gun but of course he/she has owned and shot every weapon you can name, lifelong conservative republican, who of course has had to become a raving Obama supporter because of Bush..

He/She/It's an expert in medical matters, legal matters, child-rearing (a whole passel of kids who are doctors, lawyers, researchers, who all own have been great athletes, shooters, writers, artists, etc.).

And also knows lots of high level govt folks, entertainers, CEO's, and so on.

And also had a husband who was immensely more accomplished than even she and her miracle children.

It may be the same clown as this Obvious person.  Who the hell puts such effort and their existence into crap like this ?  Somebody in a jail or a hospital somewhere ?  If it was a free person, they could just put the same effort into writing a book or a screenplay, lol.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 25, 2013, 09:52:33 AM



There's a carefully cultivated character over at the other PF named Margot.  He or she shows up on a couple other sites, same name.

He/She claims to be an old lady who grew up wealthy as the daughter of an oilman in the middle east, knows absolutely everything about the history of all the countries, sects, tribes, etc. of the middle east.  Of course anti-America / pro Islam, anti-gun but of course he/she has owned and shot every weapon you can name, lifelong conservative republican, who of course has had to become a raving Obama supporter because of Bush..

He/She/It's an expert in medical matters, legal matters, child-rearing (a whole passel of kids who are doctors, lawyers, researchers, who all own have been great athletes, shooters, writers, artists, etc.).

And also knows lots of high level govt folks, entertainers, CEO's, and so on.

And also had a husband who was immensely more accomplished than even she and her miracle children.

It may be the same clown as this Obvious person.  Who the hell puts such effort and their existence into crap like this ?  Somebody in a jail or a hospital somewhere ?  If it was a free person, they could just put the same effort into writing a book or a screenplay, lol.


The good Capt reminded me of a guy named del over at US Message Board.  Exact same behavior.   A bright person but seemed to enjoy instigating and trolling more than being serious.  Funny thing is he uses the name Capt Obvious in some of his posts.  Not that using that name isn't fairly common.


I posted that ostrich picture to see his reaction and he ignored it which makes me wonder.  Normally a person would ask what does that have to do with anything.  He glossed right over it.  I still wonder......
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 25, 2013, 10:16:36 AM
Speaking of the other sites, have you ever spent time on the one PF that's got the communists and anarchists from all over the globe  ?  There's one little Japanese girl there who just knows everything about everything, she's as bad as anyone I've seen. 

The place is hilarious, they all have the definitions of things ass-backwards and ever shifting, but conveniently go back and forth to suit their position du jour.  They often claim that the American left and dems are highly conservative because of central planning and so on, and the American conservatives and libertarians are the ultimate 'liberals', because of minimal govt belliefs.  But of course, it changes daily, and everybody brings a different set of definitions to every argument.  But the place is a mess, with a huge pile of annoying schmucks.

Or yet another PF that's owned by some guy who calls himself WEB Dubuois ?  That guy's hilarious.  Foaming-at-the-mouth liberal who literally throws everyone off the site who disagrees with him.  Most threads are about 90% his posts, and some are nothing but his posts.  What a life the guy must enjoy.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 25, 2013, 10:27:03 AM
I've been on message boards about 10 years.  I generally stay on one for quite awhile.  I've found that now I prefer to be among like minded people.  If I want to hear what the other side has to say there's plenty of sites for that.

I must being getting old but I can't take the thinking of today's youth. :smile:  They just get tedious and irritating.  There's know-it-alls on every board.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Rockntractor on January 25, 2013, 01:35:50 PM
I've been on message boards about 10 years.  I generally stay on one for quite awhile.  I've found that now I prefer to be among like minded people.  If I want to hear what the other side has to say there's plenty of sites for that.

I must being getting old but I can't take the thinking of today's youth. :smile:  They just get tedious and irritating.  There's know-it-alls on every board.
I have to agree with you, when I got to a conservative forum I often go just to get away from the talking point liberal madness of the news, I hate political correctness deeply and when confronted with it my hair if I had any it would stand up.
If a liberal is reasonable (which is extremely rare) doesn't give me the same tired arguments and lies that are so obvious they insult your intelligence I don't mind it so much.
Most liberals don't even try to make sense anymore, like this one that was just banned they only vomit endless useless information.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Turks on January 25, 2013, 02:54:14 PM
I have to agree with you, when I got to a conservative forum I often go just to get away from the talking point liberal madness of the news, I hate political correctness deeply and when confronted with it my hair if I had any it would stand up.
If a liberal is reasonable (which is extremely rare) doesn't give me the same tired arguments and lies that are so obvious they insult your intelligence I don't mind it so much.
Most liberals don't even try to make sense anymore, like this one that was just banned they only vomit endless useless information.

I could go on for hours on what I witnessed just at the last board, which is why I left.  But I'm sure most of us already know what I would say from their own personal experience.

Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 25, 2013, 04:11:06 PM
There's a carefully cultivated character over at the other PF named Margot.  He or she shows up on a couple other sites, same name.

He/She claims to be an old lady who grew up wealthy as the daughter of an oilman in the middle east, knows absolutely everything about the history of all the countries, sects, tribes, etc. of the middle east.  Of course anti-America / pro Islam, anti-gun but of course he/she has owned and shot every weapon you can name, lifelong conservative republican, who of course has had to become a raving Obama supporter because of Bush..

He/She/It's an expert in medical matters, legal matters, child-rearing (a whole passel of kids who are doctors, lawyers, researchers, who all own have been great athletes, shooters, writers, artists, etc.).

And also knows lots of high level govt folks, entertainers, CEO's, and so on.

And also had a husband who was immensely more accomplished than even she and her miracle children.

It may be the same clown as this Obvious person.  Who the hell puts such effort and their existence into crap like this ?  Somebody in a jail or a hospital somewhere ?  If it was a free person, they could just put the same effort into writing a book or a screenplay, lol.

Forgive the shudder you just felt through your PC, but this sounds like a person I used to tangle with on LNF years ago her handle was Lady Lawyer/Carol E,  a few on this forum may remember her. She was quite a character she was of course "a lawyer" despite the fact she knew nothing about criminal law and never heard of such doctrines as open fields and curtilage in regards to the 4th Amd searches but of course she was an expert on everything else, claimed she was a Reagan conservative but was really a flaming liberal.

She got upset with all of us and formed her own left wing forum and threw a bunch of us off when we went to post...I lasted two posts.
She passed away last year thats why I put in that part about the shudder.

But these "personalities" that show up I think are some kind of amalgamation of my spacers who just sort of feed off each other and do a lot of research on the internet as that and a few years of leftists indoctrination in some community college is all they have.

Billy
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 25, 2013, 04:19:10 PM
Forgive the shudder you just felt through your PC, but this sounds like a person I used to tangle with on LNF years ago her handle was Lady Lawyer/Carol E,  a few on this forum may remember her. She was quite a character she was of course "a lawyer" despite the fact she knew nothing about criminal law and never heard of such doctrines as open fields and curtilage in regards to the 4th Amd searches but of course she was an expert on everything else, claimed she was a Reagan conservative but was really a flaming liberal.

She got upset with all of us and formed her own left wing forum and threw a bunch of us off when we went to post...I lasted two posts.
She passed away last year thats why I put in that part about the shudder.

But these "personalities" that show up I think are some kind of amalgamation of my spacers who just sort of feed off each other and do a lot of research on the internet as that and a few years of leftists indoctrination in some community college is all they have.

Billy
I used to call her Tiny dancer with two Leftist feet.
She joined here and died shortly after, though we never agreed, she was always pleasant.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 25, 2013, 04:22:51 PM
I used to call her Tiny dancer with two Leftist feet.
She joined here and died shortly after, though we never agreed, she was always pleasant.

You are correct, we used to go at it but she wasn't nasty like some of these kids, she sent me dozens of cordial PM's where we discussed law etc. I think she was heavily medicated and losing it...but God rest her  anyway.

Billy
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: walkstall on January 25, 2013, 08:24:33 PM
You are correct, we used to go at it but she wasn't nasty like some of these kids, she sent me dozens of cordial PM's where we discussed law etc. I think she was heavily medicated and losing it...but God rest her  anyway.

Billy

She was over the top.   She was a lady 95% of the time.   But when off her med, look out.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Rockntractor on January 25, 2013, 08:31:02 PM
Have you ever had one join here by the name satanica, that was just one of his names, he is from Fort Lauderdale.
I have banned him half a dozen times on another board, every now and then we let him back in to spice things up but he doesn't last long
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Stranger on January 26, 2013, 05:29:30 AM
One thing I have noticed about the Forums who have turned ultra lib is they now openly quote and link to Communist blogs and such. It seems they now have new found keyboard muscles or something.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 26, 2013, 06:52:02 AM
Have you ever had one join here by the name satanica, that was just one of his names, he is from Fort Lauderdale.
I have banned him half a dozen times on another board, every now and then we let him back in to spice things up but he doesn't last long
Sounds like our very own little ricky, who is permanently banned, even took a member poll as to whether he could stay, and since the no vote won, he's not allowed in.
Very disruptive ass hole.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: walkstall on January 26, 2013, 08:16:26 AM
Sounds like our very own little ricky, who is permanently banned, even took a member poll as to whether he could stay, and since the no vote won, he's not allowed in.
Very disruptive ass hole.

Now Solar, your being very very nice when you call him that.   :lol:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 26, 2013, 08:29:04 AM
Now Solar, your being very very nice when you call him that.   :lol:
Sociopathic degenerate, didn't flow as well with ass hole. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Rockntractor on January 26, 2013, 09:21:28 AM
Sociopathic degenerate, didn't flow as well with ass hole. :biggrin:
This sounds like him. He was pretty much the most obnoxious bold troll we have ever had, I kind of figured he had made his rounds, I'm sure most of these do.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: JustKari on January 26, 2013, 09:33:12 AM
Have you ever had one join here by the name satanica, that was just one of his names, he is from Fort Lauderdale.
I have banned him half a dozen times on another board, every now and then we let him back in to spice things up but he doesn't last long

Sci Fi Fan, maybe?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 26, 2013, 09:36:01 AM
This sounds like him. He was pretty much the most obnoxious bold troll we have ever had, I kind of figured he had made his rounds, I'm sure most of these do.
Almost bet he is one and the same, his whole shtick is anti Religion, and anything else the group finds agreement on, he will be the antithesis to normalcy.
If you say the sky is blue, he will argue it is merely an illusion, and I'm not making that up, he tried to argue that very subject with me.

It's the reason trolls are not welcome on this forum, they, by their very nature try to disrupt harmony, they hate to see people get along, considering their own life is a symmetry in perpetual chaos.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 26, 2013, 10:15:37 AM
Speaking of the other sites, have you ever spent time on the one PF that's got the communists and anarchists from all over the globe  ?  There's one little Japanese girl there who just knows everything about everything, she's as bad as anyone I've seen. 

The place is hilarious, they all have the definitions of things ass-backwards and ever shifting, but conveniently go back and forth to suit their position du jour.  They often claim that the American left and dems are highly conservative because of central planning and so on, and the American conservatives and libertarians are the ultimate 'liberals', because of minimal govt belliefs.  But of course, it changes daily, and everybody brings a different set of definitions to every argument.  But the place is a mess, with a huge pile of annoying schmucks.

Or yet another PF that's owned by some guy who calls himself WEB Dubuois ?  That guy's hilarious.  Foaming-at-the-mouth liberal who literally throws everyone off the site who disagrees with him.  Most threads are about 90% his posts, and some are nothing but his posts.  What a life the guy must enjoy.

Hey Solar. Little Ricky is actually a little Japanese girl...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 26, 2013, 10:22:03 AM
Hey Solar. Little Ricky is actually a little Japanese girl...
I wouldn't doubt it for a minute, living out his fantasy on the web as a know it all Geisha slave.
The ultimate in BDSM roll play?
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: BILLY Defiant on January 26, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
I wouldn't doubt it for a minute, living out his fantasy on the web as a know it all Geisha slave.
The ultimate in BDSM roll play?

Well he is married to a witch so he tells us.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: The Boo Man... on January 26, 2013, 04:56:39 PM
I wouldn't doubt it for a minute, living out his fantasy on the web as a know it all Geisha slave.
The ultimate in BDSM roll play?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can see Little Ricky dressed as a geisha holding a whip. "Hi sailor. Call me Bubbles"...
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: Solar on January 27, 2013, 06:21:35 AM
Well he is married to a witch so he tells us.
:laugh:
I forgot about that.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 27, 2013, 08:04:48 AM
The one solace I can take from these idiots is to know what kind of low-rent lives they lead.

I'm pretty certain that nearly all of them don't work, regardless of age.  And most of them are stupid enough to just gush about communism and/or anarchy, with no rational or logical explanation.

A shockingly high % are on welfare or have been in the clink.

Most are 15-25 years old, and most of them are still in mama's house.

On the more international sites, many come from crapholes, and really need to pretend their country doesn't suck.  Which generally consists of insulting America.

So that's the deal, the dregs of society having a big old time on the internet.
Title: Re: Carrying a Gun Increases Your Risk of Getting Shot and Killed
Post by: AndyJackson on January 27, 2013, 08:11:48 AM
Hey Solar. Little Ricky is actually a little Japanese girl...

The one on the other PF does appear to be a girl, and Japanese.

The funniest thing is that she is a raging liberal on the things that make her happy (mostly regarding everything that's wrong with America)....but she's a raving nationalist and racial-cultural purist for her beloved homeland.

As with all liberalism.....hypocrisy, self-serving, and lying rule the day.