Quote from: redbeard on April 16, 2017, 02:34:01 PM
Then Trump did exactly the right thing by calling the Chinese President out on The little fat crazy guy! If it is determined that Kim has outlived his usefulness he is dead man Walking! China is in a great place right now to replace the little shit with a new(leader) and earn the praise of the world by doing it! It is almost to the point that Kim may be worth more to them dead them alive!

Exactly! Trump has been playing a masterful game perfectly, put China in Check when he met with Liu and bombed Afghanistan at the same moment, that was pure genius!
Trump has been briefed well on the geopolitics of the area and I suspect he told China, if they want to keep NK as a buffer, they better sit his ass down and straighten him out, or you'll be facing the possibility of a unified Koreas at your doorstep.

Kim knew his time was running out, that's why he had his brother killed, it bought him much needed time.
China loved having a sort of Royalty line of extended kin from the original Kim, and if necessary, they'll invent, ahem, discover a long lost relative to the original ruler.
The next few weeks are going to be fascinating to watch.

Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2017, 03:21:35 PM
Exactly! Trump has been playing a masterful game perfectly, put China in Check when he met with Liu and bombed Afghanistan at the same moment, that was pure genius!
Trump has been briefed well on the geopolitics of the area and I suspect he told China, if they want to keep NK as a buffer, they better sit his ass down and straighten him out, or you'll be facing the possibility of a unified Koreas at your doorstep.

Kim knew his time was running out, that's why he had his brother killed, it bought him much needed time.
China loved having a sort of Royalty line of extended kin from the original Kim, and if necessary, they'll invent, ahem, discover a long lost relative to the original ruler.
The next few weeks are going to be fascinating to watch.

Short of killing the little shit could China be contemplating taking control of his nukes? They moved 150,000 troops to his border. If I was North Korea I wouldn't put my nuclear storage site close to the coast or the DMZ which really leaves the northern areas of the country near China! I'm sure China knows where they are and it Would sure pull his teeth!
http://www.nti.org/gmap/missile_north_korea.html
This is the map of North Korea's Nuke, Chemical, biological and missile sites.

Quote from: redbeard on April 16, 2017, 04:33:20 PM
Short of killing the little shit could China be contemplating taking control of his nukes? They moved 150,000 troops to his border. If I was North Korea I wouldn't put my nuclear storage site close to the coast or the DMZ which really leaves the northern areas of the country near China! I'm sure China knows where they are and it Would sure pull his teeth!
http://www.nti.org/gmap/missile_north_korea.html
This is the map of North Korea's Nuke, Chemical, biological and missile sites.

The troops are there in the event we decide to blast the little prick. China honestly doesn't know what Trump might do, and the troops are evidence that whatever he said to the president, he took him seriously.
The troops are to stop a flood of refugees if Trump attacks, that's it, nothing more. China simply doesn't have a military even remotely capable of going up against the US, their last military exercise was Tiananmen Square against a bunch of college kids.

This is one of those occasions I'm glad it's Trump making the plays, NK will be corralled and China will be making some serious concessions. Trump knows we're the big guy on the planet and he's not afraid to flex that muscle.

Apparently we may have hacked into their systems and brought the missle down ourselves.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3342396/north-korea-missile-launch-failure-us-cyber-attack-sabotage/

Quote from: The Boo Man... on April 16, 2017, 07:10:03 PM
Apparently we may have hacked into their systems and brought the missle down ourselves.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3342396/north-korea-missile-launch-failure-us-cyber-attack-sabotage/

Honestly, I doubt it, NK has a completely isolated system. As much as it would be fun to keep swatting NK gnats out of the air, we can't take credit for NK's total incompetence.

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2017, 06:45:50 AM
Honestly, I doubt it, NK has a completely isolated system. As much as it would be fun to keep swatting NK gnats out of the air, we can't take credit for NK's total incompetence.

I tend to agree with you. Sounds like a made for 24/7 news channels for a story.

Quote from: supsalemgr on April 17, 2017, 07:15:36 AM
I tend to agree with you. Sounds like a made for 24/7 news channels for a story.

Yeah, when you look at the logistics involved, from line of sight laser strike to a ship at sea is beyond the horizon for a ship based system to lock on, let alone even see the missile.
The only possible scenario would be from space, and if I'm not mistaken, we signed a treaty on space based weapons, didn't we?
Here's a map of the area. Just click the X to close the story, map is behind.

http://koreas.liveuamap.com/en/2016/20-october-nks-irbm-launch-fails-again

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2017, 06:45:50 AM
Honestly, I doubt it, NK has a completely isolated system. As much as it would be fun to keep swatting NK gnats out of the air, we can't take credit for NK's total incompetence.

I think China did the last one, sort of a favor.   

Fracas - first time I heard it, John Wayne, loved the way he said it, he knew a REAL Fracas when he heard one.

This is interesting speculation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39623882

QuoteAt a news conference at the UN on Monday, North Korea's permanent representative Ambassador Kim In-ryong, condemned the US missile strikes in Syria, which targeted an air base after a suspected chemical attack by the government.

He said the US was "disturbing global peace and stability and insisting on the gangster-like logic that its invasion of a sovereign state is decisive and just and proportionate and contributes to defending the international order".

How advanced is North Korea's nuclear programme?

And what about other world powers?

China has reiterated its call for North Korea to stop all tests, and has also called for a peaceful solution.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang told reporters in Beijing on Monday that the Korean peninsula was "highly sensitive, complicated and high risk" and that all sides should "avoid taking provocative actions that pour oil on the fire".

On Sunday, Lt Gen HR McMaster, the US top security adviser, said his country was working on a "range of options" with China, the first confirmation the two countries were co-operating to find a solution to the North Korean issue.

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow would not tolerate "missile adventures by Pyongyang" but a unilateral use of power by the US would be "a very risky course".

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Monday told a parliamentary session that diplomatic efforts were "important to maintain peace", but "dialogue for the sake of having dialogue is meaningless".

I suspect these are bold face LIES.   They have other motivations, like drawing the US into another conflict, and assessing our military might & will to carry it out.   Obama left the door wide open for Communist expansion, Trump is trying to close it - so, I don't buy these statements:

QuoteChina has reiterated its call for North Korea to stop all tests, and has also called for a peaceful solution.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang told reporters in Beijing on Monday that the Korean peninsula was "highly sensitive, complicated and high risk" and that all sides should "avoid taking provocative actions that pour oil on the fire".

IMO - China would L-O-V-E to reunite the Korean peninsula, under some kind of communist state.  Their expansion of the area continues.

QuoteRussia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow would not tolerate "missile adventures by Pyongyang" but a unilateral use of power by the US would be "a very risky course".

IMO - Russian intelligence, like the Chinese might have been surprised by Donald Trump's resolve, now that they KNOW he's willing to use whatever resources America HAS... what better way to discover those weapons and their capabilities, than make-the-deploy and/or use them on a throw-away fat-little-blowhard-dictator?

For all we know, China & Russia could be making public statements, but privately, "Hey Kim, just go for it, we got your back - and, BTW, we got some unproven new technology we'd like you to try out, we'll send over some advisors too!" 

The long/short of it - I think we're in for another Fracas in North Korea.   China & Russia will come away unscathed, but will know what we're capable of doing, the little fat dictator will probably be replaced with a smarter, more obedient, stooge.  At this stage, China could be egging Kim on ...

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2017, 08:14:06 AM
Yeah, when you look at the logistics involved, from line of sight laser strike to a ship at sea is beyond the horizon for a ship based system to lock on, let alone even see the missile.
The only possible scenario would be from space, and if I'm not mistaken, we signed a treaty on space based weapons, didn't we?
Here's a map of the area. Just click the X to close the story, map is behind.

http://koreas.liveuamap.com/en/2016/20-october-nks-irbm-launch-fails-again

The rumor is that some of the electronics North Korea bought on the black market were contaminated with a virus! The great thing about this is it could be disinformation but how would the Koreans know for sure? Remember the virus dropped on the Iranian nuke program that took out their centrifuges? I'm sure the north Koreans are aware of it and these "Rumors" add a new dimension to their trouble shooting!
There may be some truth to a worm being put into his missile program. They can lie dormant and undetected for years until activated.
The really fun part of this is it may not of been us that did it. South Korea, China and epically Japan have the technology to do this. China Warned them not to shoot a missile, could be them!. It very well could be from any player in the far east! 

Quote from: redbeard on April 17, 2017, 04:01:04 PM
The rumor is that some of the electronics North Korea bought on the black market were contaminated with a virus! The great thing about this is it could be disinformation but how would the Koreans know for sure? Remember the virus dropped on the Iranian nuke program that took out their centrifuges? I'm sure the north Koreans are aware of it and these "Rumors" add a new dimension to their trouble shooting!
There may be some truth to a worm being put into his missile program. They can lie dormant and undetected for years until activated.
The really fun part of this is it may not of been us that did it. South Korea, China and epically Japan have the technology to do this. China Warned them not to shoot a missile, could be them!. It very well could be from any player in the far east!

Yeah, and it could be sabotage from within, or simply incompetence.
We'll never know, but I assure you, everyone, that worked on the rocket, from parts supplier to tarmac sweeper is facing lie detectors and interrogation techniques.
Truth is, it was most likely due to a fledging program, a program that's had more successes than failures and has been lucky up until they do they start bloviating and bellowing how great and awesome they are, only to keep the gun holstered and shoot their own feet.

I'm no expert by any means, just a realist and a guy measuring the odds, and compared to America's space program, NK has been pretty lucky up to this stage of the game.
Even to date, we have launch failures, we've just learned not to gloat and look like fools when it does happen.
I'm not saying it wasn't any combination of all those things, I'm just saying NK is more than likely suffering growing pains, especially when they press their people to produce when they aren't ready yet.

They promised to test one missile every week. If I was Trump I'd say go for it. They'd be completely out of missiles and have destroyed their country within a fortnight.

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2017, 06:45:50 AM
Honestly, I doubt it, NK has a completely isolated system. As much as it would be fun to keep swatting NK gnats out of the air, we can't take credit for NK's total incompetence.

I don't see any way that software could cause a fuel tank rupture.
Sounds more like a manufacturing flaw to me.

Quote from: je_freedom on April 17, 2017, 08:28:35 PM
I don't see any way that software could cause a fuel tank rupture.
Sounds more like a manufacturing flaw to me.

Yep, we had something similar, an O-ring seal.

Quote from: redbeard on April 15, 2017, 06:17:36 PM
It's not over yet over there. This latest missile attempt just fanned the fire! I think the short crazy fat guy is Dead man walking. Someone is going to take him out and I would put my money on China!

US Deploys Two More Aircraft Carriers Toward Korean Peninsula: Yonhap

According to a report by South Korea's primary news outlet, Yonhap, the Pentagon has directed a total of three US aircraft carriers toward the Korean Peninsula, citing a South Korean government source.

Yonhap reports that in addition to the CVN-70 Carl Vinson, which is expected to arrive off the South Korean coast on April 25, the CVN-76 Ronald Reagan - currently in home port in Yokosuka, Japan - and the CVN-68 Nimitz carrier group - currently undergoing final pre-deployment assessment, Composite Training Unit Exercise off Oregon - will enter the Sea of Japan next week.  According to the senior government official. the US and South Korea are discussing joint drills, which will include the three aircraft carriers and other ships.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-17/us-deploys-two-more-aircraft-carriers-toward-korean-peninsula-yonhap