Author Topic: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans  (Read 1546 times)

Offline BILLY Defiant

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2013, 04:49:01 PM »
NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina


You can't use Katrina as a yard stick. What was the success in a relatively small area of gun confiscation....thats right...and I know what I'm talking about...we tried taking guns off the streets for twenty five years in DC...didn't work after appox 1,000 search warrants.

Now apply that to an area the size of the CONUS and you have an idea of the impossibility of said task.

There are millions of household in the US which have Guns, many by retired and active duty cops,then there are the JUDGES, MAGISTRATES, SHERIFF's and PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS(active and RETIRED) who are armed out of necessity as putting criminals in jail makes you real un popular with them.

 If they are going to take everyone's guns away they are going to take away the cops' guns too and make some idiotic rule like Britain where you come in and draw your duty weapon from the Armory.

Trust me on this....cops talk about what they would do if faced with this situation this all the time.

Most will outright refuse and a lot would find a way to bollix the operation if "ordered" to do so.


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Online Solar

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2013, 04:57:44 PM »
You can't use Katrina as a yard stick. What was the success in a relatively small area of gun confiscation....thats right...and I know what I'm talking about...we tried taking guns off the streets for twenty five years in DC...didn't work after appox 1,000 search warrants.

Now apply that to an area the size of the CONUS and you have an idea of the impossibility of said task.

There are millions of household in the US which have Guns, many by retired and active duty cops,then there are the JUDGES, MAGISTRATES, SHERIFF's and PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS(active and RETIRED) who are armed out of necessity as putting criminals in jail makes you real un popular with them.

 If they are going to take everyone's guns away they are going to take away the cops' guns too and make some idiotic rule like Britain where you come in and draw your duty weapon from the Armory.

Trust me on this....cops talk about what they would do if faced with this situation this all the time.

Most will outright refuse and a lot would find a way to bollix the operation if "ordered" to do so.
I agree Billy, it was an anomaly. Husein wouldn't use local enforcement, he'd approach it with some other entity, say the IRS, considering the size of that monster.
I just don't see it happening in our lifetime, but I do see it coming eventually.
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Offline BILLY Defiant

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2013, 05:08:26 PM »
I agree Billy, it was an anomaly. Husein wouldn't use local enforcement, he'd approach it with some other entity, say the IRS, considering the size of that monster.
I just don't see it happening in our lifetime, but I do see it coming eventually.

He could use IRS due to sheer manpower and that would be an outright failure...EVERYBODY hates the IRS.

Likely what would happen is every FEDERAL Law enforcement agent would be impressed into service to augment the IRS. They would have to be sworn in as US Marhsals as the IRS has no specific legal authority to confiscate a firearm.

Many of the FBI, Marshals, DEA and a few of the ATF  would refuse outright, some would just call in sick. A few of the Heiarchy would likely hand in their resignations.

Anybody with a brain would then know it would come down to the Feds against the local cops.

Billy

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Offline kramarat

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2013, 04:55:49 AM »
You can't use Katrina as a yard stick. What was the success in a relatively small area of gun confiscation....thats right...and I know what I'm talking about...we tried taking guns off the streets for twenty five years in DC...didn't work after appox 1,000 search warrants.

Now apply that to an area the size of the CONUS and you have an idea of the impossibility of said task.

There are millions of household in the US which have Guns, many by retired and active duty cops,then there are the JUDGES, MAGISTRATES, SHERIFF's and PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS(active and RETIRED) who are armed out of necessity as putting criminals in jail makes you real un popular with them.

 If they are going to take everyone's guns away they are going to take away the cops' guns too and make some idiotic rule like Britain where you come in and draw your duty weapon from the Armory.

Trust me on this....cops talk about what they would do if faced with this situation this all the time.

Most will outright refuse and a lot would find a way to bollix the operation if "ordered" to do so.

I think I can use Katrina as a yardstick......................along with Kent State, Waco, Ruby Ridge...................

What shocked me about the post Katrina confiscation, was that it happened under the Bush administration. Where was the guy in the chain of command saying, "We can't do this"?

Cops might refuse the order, but are a bunch of kids in the National Guard going to disobey a direct order?

I'm not saying it will happen, but Obama scares me. He has no reverence for the constitution at all; and I also think that he would love to see a disarmed America.

Remember too; the constitution isn't even taught in schools anymore. I don't think that most people under the age of 30, would even have a clue about the 2nd amendment........................particularly when Obama gets on TV and says that it's a right to go hunting. :sad:
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 05:05:13 AM by kramarat »

Offline The Stranger

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2013, 06:24:51 AM »
The government would salivate at the first death of a Gov. Emp. being killed by an American refusing to give up his/her guns. They would have a back room orgy in the W-H just like they do now whenever some nutjobs shoots up a school or theater or whatever.
We folks fail to remember the 47% head start he already has on us! He's just got to mention Your food stamps may be delayed if we have to fight gun owners. Or it's costing us so much money to fight gun ownership your subsidy will be delayed, they would go riot in the streets.
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Offline raptor5618

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2013, 12:09:25 PM »
Well the discussion has already begun in NY state.  I think in the city it is really difficult to own a gun and if I am correct you have to house it at a gun storage facility.  So if I am right then they have already started the process in a city the size of NY.  No they do not go door to door but I bet that those who do not want to get into trouble with the law comply or do not own a gun even if they would like too. Over the last few years it is impossible to get a gun without some kind of registration when you get it.  Go to a small town with the national guard and start taking guns and most would not be so crazy to try and fight to keep them.  Word gets around and lots of people not wanting to get into a battle with the national guard would voluntarily turn them in.

One step at a time and even those who would resist become less and less able as those around them give in, taking them out of the group who could resist the government. 

I work in NY state and some of the people up hear talked to police who would not want to undertake such a thing and some of these people would resist I am sure.  But Germany had a military that was probably the best in the world at the time but the forces resisting them were just too much so that in time their ability to resist was not great enough to keep up the fight.  If that military could be beaten down to rubble it is hard to imagine that the citizens of this country would be strong enough to resist the will of the federal government.

The fact that they have the outrageous gall to even talk about taking away what is a fundamental right should be enough to enlighten everyone that the war against guns is well underway and in my mind we have already gone beyond the turning point.  They have the political power and the media is nothing but their propaganda branch.   I own quite a few guns but live in a small town where crime is not nonexistent but is fairly low.  So I never understood the perspective that someone would want or need an AR or M16. I knew they must be fun to shoot but in my mind I never considered it something worth fighting about keeping.   I was not going to support banning them and certainly not confiscating them but at the same time thought that they really did not need to have these guns. 

Well time has changed that view and if I had the cash right now I would own at least one and maybe several.   maybe a 50 cal and one of those new M110's.    I honestly can see there will come a day where those who own them will be glad that they bought them and those without them will curse that they did not have the foresight to realize they should have one in their home.   
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Offline BILLY Defiant

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2013, 06:10:24 PM »
Well the discussion has already begun in NY state.  I think in the city it is really difficult to own a gun and if I am correct you have to house it at a gun storage facility.  So if I am right then they have already started the process in a city the size of NY.  No they do not go door to door but I bet that those who do not want to get into trouble with the law comply or do not own a gun even if they would like too. Over the last few years it is impossible to get a gun without some kind of registration when you get it.  Go to a small town with the national guard and start taking guns and most would not be so crazy to try and fight to keep them.  Word gets around and lots of people not wanting to get into a battle with the national guard would voluntarily turn them in.

One step at a time and even those who would resist become less and less able as those around them give in, taking them out of the group who could resist the government. 

I work in NY state and some of the people up hear talked to police who would not want to undertake such a thing and some of these people would resist I am sure.  But Germany had a military that was probably the best in the world at the time but the forces resisting them were just too much so that in time their ability to resist was not great enough to keep up the fight.  If that military could be beaten down to rubble it is hard to imagine that the citizens of this country would be strong enough to resist the will of the federal government.

The fact that they have the outrageous gall to even talk about taking away what is a fundamental right should be enough to enlighten everyone that the war against guns is well underway and in my mind we have already gone beyond the turning point.  They have the political power and the media is nothing but their propaganda branch.   I own quite a few guns but live in a small town where crime is not nonexistent but is fairly low.  So I never understood the perspective that someone would want or need an AR or M16. I knew they must be fun to shoot but in my mind I never considered it something worth fighting about keeping.   I was not going to support banning them and certainly not confiscating them but at the same time thought that they really did not need to have these guns. 

Well time has changed that view and if I had the cash right now I would own at least one and maybe several.   maybe a 50 cal and one of those new M110's.    I honestly can see there will come a day where those who own them will be glad that they bought them and those without them will curse that they did not have the foresight to realize they should have one in their home.

Well like I said earlier, they (the cops) have been trying to get guns off the streets for decades in NYC and I guarentee you I could walk into the place cold and within an hour buy a gun on the street.

NYC was one of those source cities for unregistered guns, Mafia hoods who control the longshore unions would have them steal whole crates of guns coming in from foreign countries like Brazil and Italy.
The paperwork / bill of laden in the back office of the shipping company would somehow magically disappear also.

Cops to this day pick up guns off the street hoodlums that cannot be traced.
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Offline raptor5618

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2013, 06:55:30 AM »
Taking away guns or banning them is clearly a veiled plan that uses a lie to come to an end that further empowers the  government.  Only a total fool can believe that any regulation will have any effect on reducing crimes where a gun is involved.   Drugs can be easily purchased any where in this country and they are illegal and most of the drugs do not even originate inside our borders.  We cannot even keep it out of the country. 

Even if yo could magically get rid of every gun in the US and keep all guns from crossing the border, a quick look around the world will show that those with ill intent will find a weapon that will do great harm.  Lots of atrocities were committed without a gun. 

It is just ridiculous and if anyone sat down and thought rationally about what nonsense the anti-gun people are passing off as facts this would not even be a discussion.  But so many people in this country have been turned into sheep that they follow the path they are told to go down without question and if you have enjoyed lamb on your dinner table lately I think you might understand that such compliance often does not end well for those who do and go where they are told.
"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

Online Solar

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2013, 07:23:13 AM »
Idiots, or agenda?

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if.... Being stripped of the
ability to defend yourself makes you "safe".
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Offline raptor5618

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2013, 07:34:38 AM »
Idiots, or agenda?

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if.... Being stripped of the
ability to defend yourself makes you "safe".

While I do think that the Dem party is lead by a bunch of idiots with fewer idiots in the GOP party I guess I wonder if it is not those in DC who are the idiots but the majority of voters who listen to them. If I want to control you and know I can achieve that goal by saying the most idiotic things (listen to most campaign speeches) and "We the idiots" believe that is what you are going to do and it make perfect sense who is the idiot. 

"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

Offline Darth Fife

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2013, 07:20:48 PM »
You can't use Katrina as a yard stick. What was the success in a relatively small area of gun confiscation....thats right...and I know what I'm talking about...we tried taking guns off the streets for twenty five years in DC...didn't work after appox 1,000 search warrants.

Now apply that to an area the size of the CONUS and you have an idea of the impossibility of said task.

There are millions of household in the US which have Guns, many by retired and active duty cops,then there are the JUDGES, MAGISTRATES, SHERIFF's and PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS(active and RETIRED) who are armed out of necessity as putting criminals in jail makes you real un popular with them.

 If they are going to take everyone's guns away they are going to take away the cops' guns too and make some idiotic rule like Britain where you come in and draw your duty weapon from the Armory.

Trust me on this....cops talk about what they would do if faced with this situation this all the time.

Most will outright refuse and a lot would find a way to bollix the operation if "ordered" to do so.

Billy, Billy, Billy, you surprise me!

Of course no one is going to come right out and say, "Hey you cops, I want you to confiscate all of the firearms from law abiding citizens."

No, it will (and is) start with the fringes - laws will be enacted to confiscated guns from people will serious mental problems. Once that is achieved they will lower the bar - let's say confiscating guns from people who have been charged with domestic abuse (even if a gun was not involved).

Once that is pretty much taken care of, they will lower the bar again. This time, perhaps they will enact a law which requires anyone convicted of a DUI to surrender their guns or have them confiscated by the police.

Slowly, the circle will grow ever smaller. The next target may be people in contested divorces. The law will say something like the guns will be collected "for safe keeping" until the divorce is resolved, but they will find an excuse not to return them to their owners.

Next target. People who hold "extremist" political views. Certain types of organizations will be deemed "dangerous" and will be subject to raids based on the flimsiest of excuses - in these raids (no-knock middle of the night affairs) any and all firearms will be confiscated and destroyed - for the safety of the community, don't ya know.

Do you know any cop who will refuse to confiscate a weapon if he is told the owner poses a threat to the "safety of the community"?

And so it will go, until, eventually the simple act of owning a gun will be viewed as a danger to society.

But, don't worry, the criminals will still have their guns!
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Offline mdgiles

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2013, 06:29:13 AM »
I think I can use Katrina as a yardstick......................along with Kent State, Waco, Ruby Ridge...................

What shocked me about the post Katrina confiscation, was that it happened under the Bush administration. Where was the guy in the chain of command saying, "We can't do this"?

Cops might refuse the order, but are a bunch of kids in the National Guard going to disobey a direct order?

I'm not saying it will happen, but Obama scares me. He has no reverence for the constitution at all; and I also think that he would love to see a disarmed America.

Remember too; the constitution isn't even taught in schools anymore. I don't think that most people under the age of 30, would even have a clue about the 2nd amendment........................particularly when Obama gets on TV and says that it's a right to go hunting. :sad:
Kent State? Where it was found out years later that the National Guardsman WERE receiving gunfire from somewhere, probably from some leftists who wanted to create the incident that took place. Ruby Ridge? Where all that time and effort went into confiscating ONE (1) families guns at their isolated home. Waco? Where they had to call up military hardware, to wipe out a group of isolated believers. I don't think any of those incidents with perhaps the exception of Kent State - where the blue collar national guardsman cordially despised well-to-do leftist collegiates - will happen again. Because they were based upon some level of trust between the people and the government, in those far off days we assumed "our" government was in the "right". These days I don't even think the people who run the government, trust the government.

And which people under thirty are you talking about. Remember when you talk about the average OWS type and you speak of some working Joe, your talking about two entirely different species. Think the youngsters in Texas are the same as the youngsters in NY?
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Offline The Stranger

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2013, 06:34:21 AM »
Think the youngsters in Texas are the same as the youngsters in NY?

 :thumbsup: :thumbup: :cry: :laugh:
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Offline kramarat

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2013, 10:47:38 AM »
Kent State? Where it was found out years later that the National Guardsman WERE receiving gunfire from somewhere, probably from some leftists who wanted to create the incident that took place. Ruby Ridge? Where all that time and effort went into confiscating ONE (1) families guns at their isolated home. Waco? Where they had to call up military hardware, to wipe out a group of isolated believers. I don't think any of those incidents with perhaps the exception of Kent State - where the blue collar national guardsman cordially despised well-to-do leftist collegiates - will happen again. Because they were based upon some level of trust between the people and the government, in those far off days we assumed "our" government was in the "right". These days I don't even think the people who run the government, trust the government.

And which people under thirty are you talking about. Remember when you talk about the average OWS type and you speak of some working Joe, your talking about two entirely different species. Think the youngsters in Texas are the same as the youngsters in NY?

My point was, the government does these illegal things, (Waco and Katrina were big time illegal), and no one gets prosecuted, no one goes to jail, nothing ever happens.

Now we've got Obama; who apparently doesn't recognize any constitutional limits on government, and it doesn't look like anyone is interested in stopping him.

Offline raptor5618

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Re: And So It Begins: Weapon Bans
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2013, 10:52:16 AM »
My point was, the government does these illegal things, (Waco and Katrina were big time illegal), and no one gets prosecuted, no one goes to jail, nothing ever happens.

Now we've got Obama; who apparently doesn't recognize any constitutional limits on government, and it doesn't look like anyone is interested in stopping him.

I think that this sums up my concern as well as I think it can be explained.  It would be bad if someone with good ideas forced his ideals on us but Obama has such an outrageous view that if he is allowed to get his way well I think this country will be in major turmoil for many years to come.
"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

 

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