Author Topic: Absolute Right  (Read 4171 times)

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2012, 12:18:05 PM »
The Bill of Rights usurps the power of the Govt.
These rights are God given Rights, it is us that project the power to keep them.
It may seem contradictory on it's face but, but in truth, these are provisory at best when you consider the Amendment process.

So we agree that the Bill of Rights is about restraining government, rather than "granting" rights?
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline Solar

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2012, 12:27:32 PM »
So we agree that the Bill of Rights is about restraining government, rather than "granting" rights?
Absolutely!!!
That's why they are God given Rights.

Just dawned on me, it must be quite the conundrum for libs that hate the idea of God and his granting of a given set rights, yet ... :laugh:
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Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2012, 03:24:44 PM »
Absolutely!!!
That's why they are God given Rights.

Just dawned on me, it must be quite the conundrum for libs that hate the idea of God and his granting of a given set rights, yet ... :laugh:

Well if they dislike the idea, there is also the argument that these rights exist by virtue of our humanity, and the human condition.

So there is an entirely secular and logical argument for self ownership that does not rest on faith or God.

Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline kramarat

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2012, 03:31:04 PM »
Well if they dislike the idea, there is also the argument that these rights exist by virtue of our humanity, and the human condition.

So there is an entirely secular and logical argument for self ownership that does not rest on faith or God.

Are we going to beat this dead horse again?

Whether these are God given rights, or basic rights of humanhood, is moot. The only place they are guaranteed is in the good ole USA. Specific limitations were put on government to insure the rights of the individual. Well, they used to be, and that was the intention anyway. :sad:

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 03:45:52 PM »
Are we going to beat this dead horse again?


I think it is worth a beating.

Nothing is more important than human rights, as it comes to political discussions.

Quote

Whether these are God given rights, or basic rights of humanhood, is moot. The only place they are guaranteed is in the good ole USA. Specific limitations were put on government to insure the rights of the individual. Well, they used to be, and that was the intention anyway. :sad:

It is not moot. It is very relevant to our situation.

And they maybe guaranteed in the US, but they are hardly protected there, nor have they been in our lifetimes.
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline kramarat

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2012, 04:25:16 PM »
I think it is worth a beating.

Nothing is more important than human rights, as it comes to political discussions.

It is not moot. It is very relevant to our situation.

And they maybe guaranteed in the US, but they are hardly protected there, nor have they been in our lifetimes.

You guys go for it. We already did a long converation about whether these are God given rights or natural rights.

I'll sit this one out. :smile:

Offline kramarat

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2012, 05:07:41 PM »
I posted this the last time around, and I am just fine with the interpretation of The Heritage Foundation. I can't argue with it, and I believe it was the true intent of the founders.

http://www.heritage.org/initiatives/first-principles/basics

Offline TowardLiberty

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2012, 07:06:52 PM »
You guys go for it. We already did a long converation about whether these are God given rights or natural rights.

I'll sit this one out. :smile:

Which side did you take, I honestly dont remember?
Only the individual thinks. Only the individual reasons. Only the individual acts. Ludwig von Mises

Offline SLC conserve

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2012, 09:45:51 PM »
There wont be any one willing to "stand up" or "demand" certain rights in our current society , at least not yet.There will never be a revolution in our current state of society, things are too "comfortable" still , the average citizen even the poor live pretty easy lives that most take for granted. Right now in this counrty there is enough devide and anger to fuel it , take away the comforts and make it so there isnt as much to lose , or the right series of events and i could easily see people being willing to take up arms to "force" the goverment to demand there rights be respected .
"Never trust a man who is willing to spend billions of dollars to get a job that pays 400k a year"

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2012, 12:49:52 AM »
The problem of tying "rights" to God, is the fact that whether or not God exists, there are a multitude of human concepts of what God is and which "rights" he confers to his believers.

Take Muslims. They believe that their God has given them the "right" to either kill or subjugate all non-believers.  :confused:

Plus, some people don't believe in God - does that mean that they don't have any rights at all? :huh:

No, I believe that there is only one "right" - and that is a person's right to his/her own life. All other "rights" are derived from that.




Offline kramarat

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2012, 02:42:24 AM »
Which side did you take, I honestly dont remember?

I didn't take a side, I dropped out of the thread. :wink:

Offline Solar

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2012, 05:30:36 AM »
The problem of tying "rights" to God, is the fact that whether or not God exists, there are a multitude of human concepts of what God is and which "rights" he confers to his believers.

Take Muslims. They believe that their God has given them the "right" to either kill or subjugate all non-believers.  :confused:

Plus, some people don't believe in God - does that mean that they don't have any rights at all? :huh:

No, I believe that there is only one "right" - and that is a person's right to his/her own life. All other "rights" are derived from that.
Put yourself in the era, taking a life was against Gods will and was seen as a direct ticket to Hell, so taking up arms without Gods blessing was out of the question.
For me, I do believe I have Gods blessing to protect and defend said rights and would have no qualms if the time should ever arise.
Others will see it as a duty and not wait.
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Offline keyboarder

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Re: Absolute Right
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2012, 06:02:40 AM »
God gives us lots of things, blessings.  Guess what ?  There are provisions to every one of them.  Reading His word, if you pay attention, He will say, "i will give, grant, bless, in no way forget those that believe on my name".  But, all of these are based on "if" you will do this or that and believe on His name.  He gives His commandments and rules or laws in the Bible which really aren't that hard to follow.  I believe the one thing He gave us that is totally free is the right to salvation and that by His obedience to His Father in dying for all of our sins on a cross. 
.If you want to lead the orchestra, you must turn your back to the crowd      Forbes

 

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