Ralliers against big government seem to have no problem with the enormous war machine that is half the world's military and the biggest prison system on the planet. The "tyranny" label pops up only about public funds for education, healthcare, the environment, or unemployment insurance. The problem with a government is not its size, but whose interests it serves. Big government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all, and protect the earth. Or it can wage grisly wars in three countries at the same time!
Now don't misunderstand, I love America, I am a Christian Republican. But hypocrisy, especially when it has become so apparent, so outright such as being displayed by many Conservatives today, is disgraceful, and the government is necessary for any free and secure society to exist in unity.

Quote from: dmf777 on May 25, 2015, 11:41:25 PM
Ralliers against big government seem to have no problem with the enormous war machine that is half the world's military and the biggest prison system on the planet.

Explain.

QuoteThe "tyranny" label pops up only about public funds for education, healthcare, the environment, or unemployment insurance.

Yes, it is tyrannical to steal our money to fund the assault on our freedoms, under the guise of the scams you named.

QuoteThe problem with a government is not its size,

Wrong.  The problem with government is its size.

Quotebut whose interests it serves.

Hence why it needs to shrink.

QuoteBig government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all, and protect the earth.

No it can't.  That's what a communist would say.

QuoteOr it can wage grisly wars in three countries at the same time!
Now don't misunderstand, I love America,

That remains to be seen.

QuoteI am a Christian Republican.

Nobody gives a shit, and doesn't give you any special pass to preach communism.

QuoteBut hypocrisy, especially when it has become so apparent, so outright such as being displayed by many Conservatives today, is disgraceful, and the government is necessary for any free and secure society to exist in unity.

Wrong.  Conservatives are not hypocritical.  That would be liberals/Marxists.

Quote from: taxed on May 26, 2015, 01:09:39 AM
Explain.

Yes, it is tyrannical to steal our money to fund the assault on our freedoms, under the guise of the scams you named.

Wrong.  The problem with government is its size.
Hence why it needs to shrink.
No it can't.  That's what a communist would say.
That remains to be seen.
Nobody gives a shit, and doesn't give you any special pass to preach communism.
Wrong.  Conservatives are not hypocritical.  That would be liberals/Marxists.

What is it about you people? Anyone who doesn't conform to your idea of Conservatism is labeled "socialist" or  "communist" because they believe that the government should not be removed (or minimized so small that it serves little purpose).
Unfortunately the People cannot run a country without a government (unless you're an Anarchist or a Marxist hopeful), this is why governments exist. Neither is meant to "rule" the other, they were both meant to support the Nation and preserve the Rights, Liberty, and Security of that nation's People.

Quote from: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 01:18:11 AM
What is it about you people? Anyone who doesn't conform to your idea of Conservatism is labeled "socialist" or  "communist" because they believe that the government should not be removed (or minimized so small that it serves little purpose).

Nobody said the government should be removed.  It should be made as small as possible, to fulfill its duties as per the Constitution.

QuoteUnfortunately the People cannot run a country without a government

No shit.

Quote(unless you're an Anarchist or a Marxist hopeful),

I'm not preaching for no government, nor am I the one preaching communism.

Quotethis is why governments exist. Neither is meant to "rule" the other, they were both meant to support the Nation and preserve the Rights, Liberty, and Security of that nation's People.

What kind of grades do you get?

Quote from: taxed on May 26, 2015, 01:24:30 AM
Nobody said the government should be removed.  It should be made as small as possible, to fulfill its duties as per the Constitution.

No shit.
I'm not preaching for no government, nor am I the one preaching communism.
What kind of grades do you get?

The purpose of a government is to protect the People's Natural Rights, and to ensure the security and unity of the country. Do I believe in Communism? No, it's as absurd as a Monarchy such as we broke free from. What I do however believe, is that in order for the government to fulfill it's aforementioned purpose, it must take up certain tasks, such as assisting in health care or improving our schools, if you view that as Communism then you are sorely mistaken.

Quote from: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 01:37:43 AM
The purpose of a government is to protect the People's Natural Rights, and to ensure the security and unity of the country. Do I believe in Communism? No, it's as absurd as a Monarchy such as we broke free from. What I do however believe, is that in order for the government to fulfill it's aforementioned purpose, it must take up certain tasks, such as assisting in health care or improving our schools, if you view that as Communism then you are sorely mistaken.

You think the government should handle that because you don't understand or respect the free market.  Local communities should handle their schools, and the free market should handle the health care sector.

Quote from: taxed on May 26, 2015, 01:39:20 AM
You think the government should handle that because you don't understand or respect the free market.  Local communities should handle their schools, and the free market should handle the health care sector.

Free market means limited government involvement, not the total absence of government involvement. The government must provide when the People cannot. 

Quote from: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 02:11:01 AM
Free market means limited government involvement, not the total absence of government involvement.

Nobody said the free market is the total absence of government.  If you can't make an argument without using straw-men, then you don't have an argument.  This isn't your poli-sci class.  I kindly ask you to start thinking and take the intellect up a notch or two.

Quote
The government must provide when the People cannot.

Wrong.

Quote from: taxed on May 26, 2015, 02:13:23 AM
Wrong.

As someone who has been unemployed and on food stamps before, I can tell you that government benefits are enormously helpful in staying afloat and getting back into a job, or helping when your job pays so little that you can't afford all your food and bills on your own.
Obamacare was a bust. But the idea was reasonable, affordable healthcare for those who can't get it otherwise. The execution however, was very poor and the government dropped the ball on that one.
Education? America is a joke. Falling behind in the world education standards because of low funding and poorly produced watered down curriculum. If the government funded more schools and (not controlled) but placed more high and advanced standards on the Public School systems, we would not be so low on the education chart.

So yeah, I do think the government could seriously improve this country, and yeah, I think denying that fact is frankly absurd.

Quote from: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 02:33:29 AM
As someone who has been unemployed and on food stamps before, I can tell you that government benefits are enormously helpful in staying afloat and getting back into a job, or helping when your job pays so little that you can't afford all your food and bills on your own.

Why did you not have savings, and how long did it take you to get another job?   Why?

QuoteObamacare was a bust.

IS a bust.

QuoteBut the idea was reasonable,

No it isn't.  The premise is why health care disasters exist, such as the NHS.  Also, the ACA scam has nothing to do with health care.  Absolutely nothing.

Quoteaffordable healthcare for those who can't get it otherwise.

That sounds great on a communist propaganda brochure, but not practical or realistic.

QuoteThe execution however, was very poor and the government dropped the ball on that one.

Gee, just who I want in charge of a system.

QuoteEducation? America is a joke.

Government schools are a joke.  Schools are simply union incubation systems for Marxist propaganda indoctrination centers.  Remove government from the schools, let communities handle education, and private schools, and watch things improve dramatically.

QuoteFalling behind in the world education standards because of low funding

Low funding?  Really?  How much, on average is spent per student.  Once you figure out that answer, ask yourself why in the hell it costs so much for no education.  Teachers are uneducated with no life experience, and they're supposed to teach our kids?  You're being silly.

Quoteand poorly produced watered down curriculum.

It has to be.  If kids learned, liberalism and Marxism would die.

QuoteIf the government funded more schools and (not controlled) but placed more high and advanced standards on the Public School systems, we would not be so low on the education chart.

Wrong.  Government destroys education.  They do not own education or learning.  Ever hear of reading with your kids?  Parents alone can handle 99.9999999999999999999% of education.

QuoteSo yeah, I do think the government could seriously improve this country, and yeah, I think denying that fact is frankly absurd.

I wouldn't call that "thinking".

Quote from: dmf777 on May 25, 2015, 11:41:25 PM
Ralliers against big government seem to have no problem with the enormous war machine that is half the world's military and the biggest prison system on the planet.

I for one sleep safer knowing there is a military between me and the Islamic animals seeking to destroy me. At a more immediate local level, I hail prisons for keeping the animals in pens and the cops employed.

QuoteThe "tyranny" label pops up only about public funds for education, healthcare, the environment, or unemployment insurance. The problem with a government is not its size, but whose interests it serves.

No, sonny, the size of government becomes a strangling burden once it exceeds the abilities of taxpayers to fund it. Unless and until the Democrats seriously work to reduce our federal deficit, the Big Government leeches in that sorry party are wholly responsible for the problem, having created the gargantuan welfare system to begin with.

QuoteBig government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all, and protect the earth. Or it can wage grisly wars in three countries at the same time!

Protect the earth from the same islamoanimals who don't CARE if they destroy it, as long as the enemies of their false god are killed? Government is not an employer of the lazy --- unless you're a Democrat. Try the private sector. It's more honest labor.

QuoteNow don't misunderstand, I love America, I am a Christian Republican. But hypocrisy, especially when it has become so apparent, so outright such as being displayed by many Conservatives today, is disgraceful, and the government is necessary for any free and secure society to exist in unity.

Then as a Christian you should know all charity must come from the heart and not mandated by some fool writing a law.

I see taxed and quiller have a new chew toy.

Quote from: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 01:18:11 AM
What is it about you people? Anyone who doesn't conform to your idea of Conservatism is labeled "socialist" or  "communist" because they believe that the government should not be removed (or minimized so small that it serves little purpose).
Unfortunately the People cannot run a country without a government (unless you're an Anarchist or a Marxist hopeful), this is why governments exist. Neither is meant to "rule" the other, they were both meant to support the Nation and preserve the Rights, Liberty, and Security of that nation's People.

What you propose is rooted in Marxism as socialism, the seed of communism.
Show me in the Constitution it grants govt any of this BS you listed, and I quote:

Quote"Big government can provide necessary things like healthcare, employment and education for all,"

Yes, big govt can do all of that and more, at the expense of, and sacrifice of liberties and Freedom, because someone else is going to have to pay for it, and as it stands right now, the bill is about to come due, though I may not be around to pay it, the next generation will be saddled with the debt of their fathers.

You do realize, that is unconstitutional, correct?

Quote from: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 02:11:01 AM
Free market means limited government involvement, not the total absence of government involvement. The government must provide when the People cannot.

Those have always been a state and local issue, and the nation did fine without Fed intervention.
Look at the real plot behind Nationalized schooling, look at the individual responsible for it's creation in this country.
Seriously, look it up. Like all those "Big Govt" drones, they shared one thing in common. Care to guess what that was, and why you're being insulted with the commie label?

Quote from: dmf777 on May 26, 2015, 02:33:29 AM
As someone who has been unemployed and on food stamps before, I can tell you that government benefits are enormously helpful in staying afloat and getting back into a job, or helping when your job pays so little that you can't afford all your food and bills on your own.
Obamacare was a bust. But the idea was reasonable, affordable healthcare for those who can't get it otherwise. The execution however, was very poor and the government dropped the ball on that one.
Education? America is a joke. Falling behind in the world education standards because of low funding and poorly produced watered down curriculum. If the government funded more schools and (not controlled) but placed more high and advanced standards on the Public School systems, we would not be so low on the education chart.

So yeah, I do think the government could seriously improve this country, and yeah, I think denying that fact is frankly absurd.

Tell me, why is it my responsibility to support your lifestyle, why am I responsible to feed and house you?
Ya see, that was the beauty of the country, that the poorest of the poor could become anything their heart desired, whether that be wealthy beyond their wildest dreams, or simply hiking across country with a sleeping bag, no one interfered.
But your big govt idea is to tax him at every turn, and today, track him at every turn in his life, fine him, jail him for vagrancy, force him to your standards of idealism, or go to jail.

Here's the thing, during this time you claim "unemployed and on food stamps", why didn't you seize this opportunity to start over and do it right this time?
You see, whatever you were doing in life, was flat out wrong, you were on a path of failure, yet you ran to govt to bail your useless ass out.
Yet you don't see anything wrong in this?