Quote from: Skatebeanz on April 16, 2016, 09:33:56 AM
his is similar only no tax is paid by the individual, right? All taxes are paid on the corporate level and thus built into the total cost of purchase.

Or am I mistake. And his you actually get taxed more? Can u tell me what his tax would look like using that same 5 step purchase?

No, they're apples and turds in comparison.
A VAT taxes the very first step in production and every step after, a Flat Tax taxes the product at point of sale, and if the product never sells, no tax is collected, unlike a VAT where the tax is paid at every step, a bureaucratic Hell.
A VAT is not only a nightmare for the manufacturer, it's also an intrusion of privacy in that the Govt demands proof of every step in production.

Also, Cruz Flat Tax only taxes new products, so the poor can completely avoid taxes by buying used.

Quote from: mdgiles on April 16, 2016, 09:40:55 AM
ALL TAXES ARE PAID BY THE INDIVIDUAL.
Businesses simply add the cost of their taxes to all the other costs of doing business, when they figure out the price of the service or item they are selling. That is something basic to economics. When ever you here some politician talking about taxing the corporations, he/she is really talking about taxing you, and having the corporation collect it, so that you get mad at the corporation and not at them.

Correct. I understand that. Same thing minimum wage raising does. Passed on to the consumer. McDonald's even in San Francisco can still only afford to pay employees x amount of money. They aren't simply going to start to lose money or not make the investment in the business worth the low profit.

What makes Teds different from that exact vat other than the consumer paying the tax after instead of companies pay it themselves?

Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2016, 09:46:34 AM
No, they're apples and turds in comparison.
A VAT taxes the very first step in production, a Flat Tax taxes the product at point of sale, and if the product never sells, no tax is collected, unlike a VAT where the tax is paid at every step, a bureaucratic Hell.
A VAT is not only a nightmare for the manufacturer, it's also an intrusion of privacy in that the Govt demands proof of every step in production.

Also, Cruz Flat Tax only taxes new products, so the poor can completely avoid taxes by buying used.

They said it was a type of VAT. Not an exact replica of Europe.

Where did you hear it is only one new items? I haven't seen that part yet.

I saw that teds tax is better than a classic VAT as his taxes all purchases including services. Where as a sales tax does not.

Quote from: mdgiles on April 16, 2016, 08:38:48 AM
How is a Flat Tax on income, which sone rate after the same standard and dependent deductions; the same as a VAT (Value Added Tax) where tax is added at every step of manufacture and collected at the end in the sales tax?

A flat tax on personal income is just a change in the percentage of withholding to one bracket.  Income x 10% = amount you owe.

Currently we have several different tax brackets depending upon how much you earn.

A VAT is more like a sales tax. 

The example below of how material and labor on production would be taxed, but I'm curious how they would treat direct overhead costs such as power, facilities rent, etc. to VAT.

Quote from: Dori on April 16, 2016, 09:58:03 AM
A flat tax on personal income is just a change in the percentage of withholding to one bracket.  Income x 10% = amount you owe.

Currently we have several different tax brackets depending upon how much you earn.

A VAT is more like a sales tax. 

The example below of how material and labor on production would be taxed, but I'm curious how they would treat direct overhead costs such as power, facilities rent, etc. to VAT.

Correct. Ted's plan taxes all incomes 10%. This there is no need for uber rich to claim an income as something with a lesser tax rate. His business tax is what I heard was being compared to a VAT.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/ted-cruz-s-business-flat-tax-primer

That website explains why they consider it a type of VAT.

This is the answer they give on how it differs from a standard VAT.

The first of these differences is in how it's collected: the kind of tax Senator Cruz is proposing would be calculated from corporate accounts and filed at the end of a reporting period, and not charged on each individual transaction.
The second of these is in what's included. Sales taxes often don't really apply to all of the goods and services we buy. They include a hodgepodge of goods that are named explicitly, and they often don't really include things like legal services. This is different: the lawyers would pay. Furthermore, as I mentioned above, my salary at Tax Foundation is the kind of thing that is encompassed by this proposed tax, but not any kind of retail sales tax.

Quote from: reason10 on April 16, 2016, 07:48:30 AM
I AM PRO-CRUZ. If he is the nominee, I'll vote for him. I don't hate America. Cruz was my first choice before Trump announced.  And had it not been for Trump, we'd be looking at Jeb Bush with most of the delegates by now. And Hillary would be the next president.

Sanders will be Walter Mondale to Trump, who is the most Reagan-like candidate in this race. Sanders has a lot of freeloaders excited, but the guy is a senile windbag. He can barely beat up this incompetent bitch in a debate. Trump will take him apart in a debate and that will be that. He'll be lucky to carry his own state.

I agree. And I support such action. Problem is, it doesn't solve our current problem. One thing about THE DONALD. If you look at his career as a builder, you understand his entire philosophy on politics. Get the most bang for the smallest buck. There are a million issues in this political season and Trump has picked the most important few. He either predicted they would be important, or he MADE them important. That's the sign of a true leader.

NOBODY was DARING to take on illegal immigration before THE DONALD. Jeb referred to this as an act of love. Can you just imagine having THAT as our nominee.

Truthfully, I was so hoping for a Trump/Cruz ticket. It would be Cruz's quickest avenue to the presidency. Eight years under President Trump and he would be a shoo in for the job. He'd inherit eight years of prosperity under Trump.

The Lyin' Ted bell can't be un-rung. It's a pity. If Ted were to get out of the race right now and give Trump his delegates as a running mate, ALL the mystery would be gone. A Trump/Cruz ticket would be landslide material.

Lyin' Ted kind of ended that. (The nickname, not the man)

Gee, ya think? Here's a guy who built an eight billion dollar company being outmaneuvered by a first term junior Senator.

I've discovered that there is no special moral blank check issued for having a C by your name. Conservatives in the last election sat home and gave us Obama for four more years, when they could easily have voted him out of office. So it's not as if conservatives have done us a whole lot of favors.

Donald is taking the conservative/liberal distraction out of the mix. It's not about ideology. It's about a few simple issues and the ability to get them done. And out of ALL the candidates, Trump is the only one who has had to face deadlines and price ceilings in the private sector. He's the only one who has actually created jobs and wealth.

If he flames out, I'll vote for Ted. But I don't have much confidence that Ted can beat Hillary. It'll be a news media bonanza, since they LIVE for the close races. I'd rather have a guy who can kick her ass in the early polls and win in a landslide.

You have continued to parrot nonsense like a Trump-bot, even after being asked to prove it, and after an initial time out.  This is not a place for you to parrot Trump's BS.  So, you're gone.

Quote from: Skatebeanz on April 16, 2016, 10:01:23 AM
Correct. Ted's plan taxes all incomes 10%. This there is no need for uber rich to claim an income as something with a lesser tax rate. His business tax is what I heard was being compared to a VAT.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/ted-cruz-s-business-flat-tax-primer

That website explains why they consider it a type of VAT.

I understand.  He's wrong.  A 10% flat tax straight up is not a "VAT".  That's just crazy talk.

Quote from: Skatebeanz on April 16, 2016, 07:55:05 AM
I personally believe trump will wipe the floor with Hillary.

That is crazy talk.  Trump can't even slate his delegates in the primaries.  Hillary would demolish Trump on organization and ground game alone -- even if Trump wasn't a radical insane liberal.  You really need to take the time to understand what it takes to get nominated, and then execute in the general.  Trump doesn't have the money or organizational competency to deliver a victory over Hillary.  He's the one and only candidate who slapped an (R) next to his name that she would completely merk.

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But I'm scared she won't even be the nominee.

Why in the hell would you be scared of either of these two clowns?

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I watch a few minutes of the dem debate and it made me sick. They literally were trying to show who can give the most crap away to the lazy and worthless.

That's what they do.

Quote from: taxed on April 16, 2016, 10:53:07 AM
That is crazy talk.  Trump can't even slate his delegates in the primaries.  Hillary would demolish Trump on organization and ground game alone -- even if Trump wasn't a radical insane liberal.  You really need to take the time to understand what it takes to get nominated, and then execute in the general.  Trump doesn't have the money or organizational competency to deliver a victory over Hillary.  He's the one and only candidate who slapped an (R) next to his name that she would completely merk.

Why in the hell would you be scared of either of these two clowns?
That's what they do.

Do you think Bernie has a legit shot if he is the nominee to be POTUS?

Quote from: Skatebeanz on April 16, 2016, 01:19:36 PM
Do you think Bernie has a legit shot if he is the nominee to be POTUS?

No.  He would get merked worse than Hillary.

Quote from: taxed on April 16, 2016, 01:27:20 PM
No.  He would get merked worse than Hillary.

I really hope so. He is scarier than Clinton.

Quote from: Skatebeanz on April 16, 2016, 01:33:53 PM
I really hope so. He is scarier than Clinton.

There is zero chance they could win.  The Dem turnout is low, and the GOP turnout is high.  The only chance they have is if Trump were nominated.