Author Topic: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco  (Read 818 times)

Offline Patriot

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A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« on: January 02, 2013, 06:45:53 PM »
To those upset with the fiscal cliff negotiations, I don't think the Republicans had good options.  If they blocked the bill, the alternative would likely have been higher taxes for everyone.  The following excerpt from the WSJ editorial presents the view that the Republicans will be in a much better position going forward if they choose to take advantage of it.  A big if.

I think the Republicans need to get out in front of this now by reminding everyone of Obama's words about the debt under Bush and his pledge to cut the debt instead of grow it.  I also think they need to very loudly mock his future tactics by predicting he will threaten to stop granny's Social Security check and stop paying soldiers.  They need to say very loudly that those tactics won't work.  GAME ON.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323820104578215400767461788.html?mod=ITP_opinion_2

Brief excerpt from a long editorial:

If there is a silver lining to this fiasco, it is that this may be the high-water mark of Mr. Obama's redistributionist tax agenda. The President has had unusual leverage over Republicans because he just won re-election and because taxes were going to go up even if they did nothing. The GOP wanted to avoid the blame for not sparing the middle class from the higher rates.

But we hope the GOP has learned, after two failed attempts, that Mr. Obama is not someone with whom it can do a "grand bargain." Even as the Senate deal was taking shape, Mr. Obama gave a speech literally taunting Republicans for agreeing to raise tax rates. He also made clear that the price of any future spending cuts or entitlement reform will be another tax increase. He doesn't want to reform government. He wants to expand it and destroy GOP opposition to his agenda in the bargain.

Having been cornered into letting Democrats carry this special-interest slag heap through the House, Speaker John Boehner should from now on cease all backdoor negotiations and pursue regular legislative order. House Republicans should pursue their own agenda and let Mr. Obama and Senate Democrats pursue theirs. Mr. Obama has his tax triumph. Let it be his last.



Offline Darth Fife

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 08:30:31 PM »
Sorry, but this kind of sounds like the coach of a football team who is losing the game 42 to 3 at half-time telling his guys, "Hey, the other team's Offense has got to be getting tired!"

 :rolleyes:
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Offline Rockntractor

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 08:49:47 PM »
sigh

Offline Patriot

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 12:07:10 AM »
Sorry, but this kind of sounds like the coach of a football team who is losing the game 42 to 3 at half-time telling his guys, "Hey, the other team's Offense has got to be getting tired!"

 :rolleyes:

Depends on how the Republicans deal with the debt ceiling.  They will be in a better position.

Offline kramarat

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 03:55:12 AM »
The bottom line for me is; I'm not hearing anyone talking about the massive spending cuts that need to take place. Government continues to grow, expand and overspend.....................stealing our money and our freedom as they go.

The next generation, (many who haven't even been born yet), will be facing a crippled and bankrupt country; with debt so high, there will not be a prayer of paying it off. We're leaving a hell of a legacy for our kids to deal with. :sad:

Offline The Stranger

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 04:11:55 AM »
The bottom line for me is; I'm not hearing anyone talking about the massive spending cuts that need to take place. Government continues to grow, expand and overspend.....................stealing our money and our freedom as they go.

The next generation, (many who haven't even been born yet), will be facing a crippled and bankrupt country; with debt so high, there will not be a prayer of paying it off. We're leaving a hell of a legacy for our kids to deal with. :sad:

There is little hope for the next generation as middle class taxpayers. The middle class jobs are gone and will never return. The framer, electrician, roofer, mason, bus driver and so on are now min. wage jobs thanks to the influx of illegals. These were careers only 25 years ago.
I was a contractor and my first job was as a tin knocker, worked up to installer and service tech eventually owned my own contracting business for years and did very well for myself and kids. I made more in the early 1980's as a HVAC mech. then they pay today. I was making $15.00 per hour with health ins. and vac. time, today the same mech. pays for his own ins. and is lucky to make 9-11.00 per hour if you find a job, There may be one guy on a job making that everyone else is Min wage or just above and no benefits.
Point is I see little hope for the middle class in the next generation.
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Offline Shooterman

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 04:51:56 AM »
Depends on how the Republicans deal with the debt ceiling.  They will be in a better position.

They will deal with it exactly as they dealt with it before; they'll cave.
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Offline The Stranger

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 04:58:04 AM »
They will deal with it exactly as they dealt with it before; they'll cave.

I do think they are in a better position now then in the past if they DON"T CAVE. They have to NOW hit the pavement YELLING hey we gave you your tax increase now CUT the size of government and repeat it until the MSM has no choice but to listen. Hit and run statements will not work.
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Offline Reality

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 05:32:06 AM »
The pubs have no creditibility anymore as well as no unity.  The Speaker's language to Reid was deplorable although Reid deserved it.  Those kinds of outburst only serve to make the pubs look like a bunch of hooligans.  Young bloods like Cantor, Ryan, Rubio et all need to take over and restore respect.

The recent fiscal cliff act, and actions or lack thereof, by both parties was embarrassing to our Country.  In 2008 we sat back and shook our heads at "how did this happen".  We sat back and did the same thing in 2012 and now we get to watch someone who should not be President make the so called experienced stake holders in Washington look like Joe sh*t the ragman.  The old guard is incapable of righting the ship.  If they could Obammy would be a footnote in history.     

Offline The Stranger

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 05:51:40 AM »
The pubs have no creditibility anymore as well as no unity.  The Speaker's language to Reid was deplorable although Reid deserved it.  Those kinds of outburst only serve to make the pubs look like a bunch of hooligans.  Young bloods like Cantor, Ryan, Rubio et all need to take over and restore respect.

Maybe this would be a good idea but if they jumped in now they would not only have to fight off the media blitz of lies and made up stories but just like in the republican primary they would have to fight off our own party.


The recent fiscal cliff act, and actions or lack thereof, by both parties was embarrassing to our Country.  In 2008 we sat back and shook our heads at "how did this happen".  We sat back and did the same thing in 2012 and now we get to watch someone who should not be President make the so called experienced stake holders in Washington look like Joe sh*t the ragman.  The old guard is incapable of righting the ship.  If they could Obammy would be a footnote in history.     

Well in two years lets make them history!

Nice seeing ya here Reality, the other board has turned into an orgy I see. :lol: :woot:
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Offline supsalemgr

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 06:04:52 AM »
The pubs have no creditibility anymore as well as no unity.  The Speaker's language to Reid was deplorable although Reid deserved it.  Those kinds of outburst only serve to make the pubs look like a bunch of hooligans.  Young bloods like Cantor, Ryan, Rubio et all need to take over and restore respect.

The recent fiscal cliff act, and actions or lack thereof, by both parties was embarrassing to our Country.  In 2008 we sat back and shook our heads at "how did this happen".  We sat back and did the same thing in 2012 and now we get to watch someone who should not be President make the so called experienced stake holders in Washington look like Joe sh*t the ragman.  The old guard is incapable of righting the ship.  If they could Obammy would be a footnote in history.     

Glad to see you here Reality. This board is so much better than the BR Debate forum. I still check it and they are all in a lib circle jerk now as most of the cons have left. It is good to see we made an impact as they are still disparaging us by name even though we are gone.
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Offline raptor5618

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 06:32:21 AM »
You did notice that Ryan voted for this abortion of a bill.  I do not doubt his ability to understand the problem but now I wonder if he has the will to do what is right and not just what is good for his political career.  I personally think that doing the right thing will result in having a career in politics and looking at Ron Paul who stood by his principles and stood up to the media who tried to make him out to be someone who was totally insane survived to end his career when he chose too. 

All these Rep's that are screaming about the money being delayed by a few days for storm damage need to be voted out. Just like the libs they scream for money even when it was in black and white that much of the money really had nothing to do with the storm.  I get the outrage for how long it took but it really needed to be put in context.  In this instance Boehner started out doing the right thing but once again ends up looking like a man with no concept of what is going on. 

Perhaps the party needs to be more aggressive in purging those who talk like they support fiscal conservative ideals but act like any mainline dem.   

I think the GOP will be made to look like a fool in the next two negotiations. The president and the media will call them obstructionists and claim they are destroying the country because they dislike the president and some will probably toss in some claims of racism.  Then a bit of saying that they are going to let babies go without food and elderly will be kicked out on the street or the heat turned off or any number of sad stories that are really irrelevant.  Obama is arrogant enough that he will not budge except to make even more outrageous claims.  Oh there will be lots of blame for the tea party.   How insane is that.  The tea party only wants this country to have small government and more personal freedom and the Dem's vilify them like they want to kill all the children under the age of 6. 

In the end the GOP will do what Obama and the media want and they will find some way to declare that they did what they had too and wait until next time when they will get things their way. 
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Offline Patriot

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 07:43:47 AM »
I do think they are in a better position now then in the past if they DON"T CAVE. They have to NOW hit the pavement YELLING hey we gave you your tax increase now CUT the size of government and repeat it until the MSM has no choice but to listen. Hit and run statements will not work.

Republicans need to get out in front of this now by:

1) reminding everyone of Obama's words about the debt under Bush and his pledge to cut the debt instead of grow it.

2) immunize themselves from Obama's future tactics by predicting his threats to stop granny's Social Security check and stop paying soldiers.  They need to say very loudly that those tactics won't work.

3) put the Dems on the defensive by stating the ceiling cannot rise until there is a budget in place, reminding all that the Senate has sat on that for over 1300 days.  The only back-off to that, given the time for all the legislation to occur, is to state the Dems must say what cuts they will support and have those be analyzed by CBO.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 07:51:13 AM by USAPatriot »

Offline AndyJackson

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 08:22:14 AM »
At some point, somebody in the GOP needs to stop the 50-year habit of letting the dems and the media kick them in the balls, saying "thank you, may I have another", and then saying "well, we'd better not respond, it would be unseemly and gauche".

The dems got to this point of destroying the GOP and conservatism with a simple template -

-24/7/365 offense
-Have zero decency, logic, accuracy, or honesty, and feel no shame whatsoever
-Act like a thug, child, or lunatic whenever it seems necessary, again no shame
-Scream accusations, labels, and false stories from the rooftops, again no shame
-When in doubt, sue like there's no tomorrow
-Wield hypocrisy often and shamelessly
-Do these things every day all day, and accuse conservatives of all the same, at the same time


I could go on with another 100 tactics, but this is the gist of it.  And guess what....there's about 3 conservatives in the world who do anything that we can even call offense, not even the juvenile / Alinsky-Machiavelli mode of the leftists. 

Limbaugh's one, Allen West maybe, Bachmann now and then.

We know that the dems and media will demonize even the softest, weakest, feeble attempt to disagree with them.  Why exactly do we continue to be pusses like Boehner, McConnell, John Roberts, and so on.

Why not get our money's worth for the guaranteed attacks for whatever conservatives will do  ?

I promise that the GOP will get no credit for stepping up and compromising to avoid the fiscal cliff, while they would have been blamed for every future calamity in the world if they hadn't.  On the contrary, Obama will get all the credit even though he was the most intransigent and selfish of all, and the GOP will still be blamed for various generic problems like "bitter divide" and "paralysis".  These are code words for the GOP having the nerve to ask for anything or have any beliefs.

It's time that the GOP and conservatives just co-opted the dem tactics.

Sue the schyte out of all liberal misdeeds.  Scream anything and everything from the rooftops.  Call the liars, liars.  One guy said "you lie" to Obama once, and the media made sure that it was viewed as a treasonous and murderous act.  Meanwhile, the most vile of name calling, labeling, accusing, and insults from the left are just snickered about.

It's time to flip that around.  If conservatives will be damned anyway, may as well earn it.  There is so much that left can't stand sunlight, scrutiny, and legal action on, that we'd better start bringing it.

Otherwise, we lose.  It's how we got to where we are.

Offline Patriot

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Re: A silver lining to the fiscal fiasco
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 08:37:30 AM »
It's time to flip that around.  If conservatives will be damned anyway, may as well earn it.  There is so much that left can't stand sunlight, scrutiny, and legal action on, that we'd better start bringing it.

Otherwise, we lose.  It's how we got to where we are.

Agree.  The GOP needs to be far more aggressive with in your face, blunt language.  It doesn't have to be profane but very direct.  For example, when Obama refuses to offer spending cuts, the GOP members should say, "We will not allow this President to act like a drunk on payday and continue to destroy this country.  It will stop now."  That will certainly rile up the talking heads on the 3 networks plus CNN, but it will get the message out there.

 

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