You guys on this forum will appreciate this because you will understand it.

My neighbor across the street soon to be 47, is a great guy a good man. He got up every single day and went to work, helps everyone in the neighborhood always there if you need him...all around good guy.
    Him and I got into a umm lets say very warm discussion. He lost his job because of the economy, cutbacks by his company over two years ago. Hes been on unemployment all that time, I know he was actively seeking work for along time..anyway about 5 mths ago he started working with a home remodler handyman friend of his...and collecting unemployment. He said unemployment isnt enough and I cant find a full time job that pays enough...ok..He was telling me a week ago he had to get to a job service or something..he said unemployment was running out and this part time thing with the handyman wasnt enough alone. Then he heard they were extending unemployment and he said he was good for another year with the two...I said your not gonna look for a real job...he said with unemployment with a real job Ill work 40 hours a week for what 2.00 an hr he said not worth getting out of bed for that...thats when I said wtf man...your already brreaking the law working with the handyman under the hat and so is he...now your content to have the taxpayers continue to give you money while you break the law because its not worth working for a living when you collect it...what the fuck happend to you Vic...you used to be a stand up guy...he got offended and we exchanged a few more words..and we both kind of backed off....but there it is..shame...I feel bad about it because we were good friends now I think less of him...
   

It's a story being repeated all around the Country, even my very own brother is doing it, though he could easily qualify for SSDI, and will be retiring in a year.
But even the best of us have fallen to the gov troff.

There used to be something known as Pride, and for others, shaming those that didn't pull their own weight.
This is the moral collapse of the Country that we were warned about since our inception.

Breaks ones heart...

A very good friend of mine is in a similar situation. He worked in highway construction (union) for like twenty years, but when gas hit $4 a gallon a few years ago, the bottom completely fell out of highway construction. Then with the recession, private work of that sort dried up. He had two VERY bad years, then was laid off over a year ago and hasn't worked since. He drew unemployment for nearly a year -- until it looked like his benefits were about to run out -- and then took early retirement through his union's pension plan.

He told me it's simple economics. When he was working, he made good money -- around $27/hour plus bennies. Because of that, he qualified for the maximum unemployment benefit when he lost his job -- around $475/week.  :o  Not enough to cover the payments on the Caribbean condo, but enough to keep the lights on and the dog fed, especially if you can pick up odd jobs off the books. Think about it -- he'd have had to find a job making something well over $12/hour somewhere close to home to be money ahead of the dole. We're out here just east of West Podunk, Ohio, and those jobs essentially don't exist right now. You might get on as temporary holiday help at Walmart for less than $8 -- part-time with no benefits -- but that's about it in our neck of the woods.

A person feels bad enough when they have worked all their life, loose a job through no fault of their own and then can't find work because no one wants to hire an old overqualified person to do a job or pay them what their worth. And remember he has payed into unemployment for all his working career. I think in these times we need to be a little easier on those who don't have work if there legit. Lets focus the blame on those who got us in to this mess. But for the grace of God go I. :)

Quote from: offgridbob on December 11, 2010, 11:50:57 AM
A person feels bad enough when they have worked all their life, loose a job through no fault of their own and then can't find work because no one wants to hire an old overqualified person to do a job or pay them what their worth. And remember he has payed into unemployment for all his working career. I think in these times we need to be a little easier on those who don't have work if there legit. Lets focus the blame on those who got us in to this mess. But for the grace of God go I. :)

Don't know how it is now, but a few years ago, only the employers paid into the unemployment fund. Never the workers.

Quote from: Shooterman on December 11, 2010, 01:10:42 PM
Don't know how it is now, but a few years ago, only the employers paid into the unemployment fund. Never the workers.

    Both pay into it worker and employer...if you ever collect it you get all the money back in a few checks that you paid into it...unemployment is minimal.  Lets not forget that unemployment was originally for 16 weeks thats it and it was over...

Quote from: zip on December 11, 2010, 01:32:43 PM
    Both pay into it worker and employer...if you ever collect it you get all the money back in a few checks that you paid into it...unemployment is minimal.  Lets not forget that unemployment was originally for 16 weeks thats it and it was over...

In Texas;

http://www.hrlawyersblog.com/2009/07/hr-law/unemployment-compensation/unemployment-compensation-in-texas-frequently-asked-questions/

Unemployment Insurance (UI) is an employer-paid insurance program that helps workers who are unemployed through no fault of their own. It provides temporary financial help to qualified individuals, based on their previous earnings, while they are looking for other work. Employer taxes and reimbursements support the Unemployment Trust Fund. Employers cannot deduct any money from employees' paychecks to pay for this program.

Quote from: Shooterman on December 11, 2010, 01:49:30 PM
In Texas;

http://www.hrlawyersblog.com/2009/07/hr-law/unemployment-compensation/unemployment-compensation-in-texas-frequently-asked-questions/



Unemployment Insurance (UI) is an employer-paid insurance program that helps workers who are unemployed through no fault of their own. It provides temporary financial help to qualified individuals, based on their previous earnings, while they are looking for other work. Employer taxes and reimbursements support the Unemployment Trust Fund. Employers cannot deduct any money from employees' paychecks to pay for this program.

True, but then they don't get much of a pay increase.  Like a tax it all comes out of the working person at sometime.  ;)

I can understand where your coming from with this guy and some of the other examples, But I see this as mitigating circumstances.

The guys was stand up, he worked and humped all those years then he turned around and got screwed over, by the system, tweaked by the Govt and with Union help no doubt.

Tough times forces people to do things they normally wouldn't. I'm not saying what he is doing is right or that I would condone his actions, but I can understand where he is coming from.

I surmise that in the guy's mind he is probably getting back at the Govt by taking advantage of the situation.


Billy

Quote from: Shooterman on December 11, 2010, 01:10:42 PM
Don't know how it is now, but a few years ago, only the employers paid into the unemployment fund. Never the workers.

Shooter, that's correct as far as it goes. But like a lot of other things, such as Social Security contributions, health insurance, and so on, it's all part of the "wage package" that any employer considers when hiring. Politicians have figured out that voters can be somewhat bamboozled this way.

The key to getting hired and keeping a job is making sure your employer receives more in income as a result of your efforts than it costs him to keep you employed. Yes, in a standard employer-employee relationship, the employer has to pick up half the tab for Social Security, has to pay into the state's unemployment insurance system, often is responsible for paying all or part of the premiums for the employee's health insurance, etc. But all these things and more are direct costs to the employer on behalf of the employee. And if the employer cannot or will not bear these costs on your behalf, YOU are out of a job. It doesn't matter who writes the checks for what, it's all part of what it cost the employer to hire and keep an employee.

When the total cost of an employee is more than the income an employer can reasonably expect to produce by hiring that employee, that employee doesn't get hired. THAT is why these taxes and benefits that are supposedly "borne by employers" are SO important!

I guess the title of the thread got to me,( A good man gone bad) I hardly think he went bad, he is just in a bad spot trying to figure out what to do to save his house maybe. I know a number of good men that at some time in their.. lives have made mistakes including myself. My true friends uplifted me and stuck with me during the hard times. This good man gone bad could possibly use a friend right now. Don't mean to offend anyone , just speaking my mind.

We are being conditioned for this. Essentially  the Chinese are paying us not to work.

Quote from: offgridbob on December 11, 2010, 05:44:23 PM
I guess the title of the thread got to me,( A good man gone bad) I hardly think he went bad, he is just in a bad spot trying to figure out what to do to save his house maybe. I know a number of good men that at some time in their.. lives have made mistakes including myself. My true friends uplifted me and stuck with me during the hard times. This good man gone bad could possibly use a friend right now. Don't mean to offend anyone , just speaking my mind.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, OGB.  This is a perfect example of what desperate people will do to feed their families, keep their homes, and provide the basic necessities for their families. 

This is why those of us who have prepared in advance for the economy going in the toilet the way it has, can't afford to TRUST people who we consider friends or acquaintances, or even some members of our family that don't live with us.   

Shooterman is correct in what he said.  Employees do not contribute to unemployment.  It is soley on the employer. Rates determined by payroll n employees.

I feel bad that this guy is doing this, but I see there isn't really a whole lot of choice.  I know union workers who have been off work for 4 to 5 yrs. Their bennys have done run dry. A painter by trade now works in a gas station to make ends meet.  Another paints on the side because there just isnt any work.   I hope this guy finds something before unemployment discovers this. I know of a guy 2 yrs ago that got busted doing this same thing pretty much.  Problem was he got caught when they started callin to see.  He ended up having to pay it back the next time he filed.....they deducted what they had all ready paid out.  This guy better watch out for the possible back lash.

Quote from: Elfie on December 11, 2010, 08:06:19 PM
Shooterman is correct in what he said.  Employees do not contribute to unemployment.  It is soley on the employer. Rates determined by payroll n employees.

I feel bad that this guy is doing this, but I see there isn't really a whole lot of choice.  I know union workers who have been off work for 4 to 5 yrs. Their bennys have done run dry. A painter by trade now works in a gas station to make ends meet.  Another paints on the side because there just isnt any work.   I hope this guy finds something before unemployment discovers this. I know of a guy 2 yrs ago that got busted doing this same thing pretty much.  Problem was he got caught when they started callin to see.  He ended up having to pay it back the next time he filed.....they deducted what they had all ready paid out.  This guy better watch out for the possible back lash.

Here's the deal, so we all understand it.

I'm an employer, a person who hires other people to do work. I do this because I need other people to do the amount of work that needs to be done in a timely manner.

Let's say that I hire YOU, Elfie. I want you to build my widgets. When I hire you, I incur the obligation to pay you in LOTS of ways. I have to pay you your wages, first and foremost. But I also have to pay half of your Social Security obligation. I have to pay premiums on your behalf into the state's unemployment compensation fund. I may have to pony up for health care insurance for you and yours. I have to hire another person just to keep the books on what you and your cohorts make, get paid, etc. I may also have to deduct your child support payments, your alimony installments, your real estate taxes, or some other payments from your salary, and send that along to the rightful recipient.

Elfie, every single thing I've done since I typed your name the first time costs me money. I am going to make sure that you generate enough income to cover that outlay, or I am going to fire your ass tomorrow. And that's because, without you, I DON'T HAVE THESE EXPENSES.