Hey, I'm no Scrooge -- oh, BTW, MERRY CHRISTMAS to one and all!!!!! -- but what is this all about? Why is responding to the 9/11 disaster SO much different from responding to any other disaster that it requires an act of Congress and a federal allotment of BILLIONS of tax dollars?

Read all about it: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ap-sources-deal-reached-on-911-responders-health-bill/

     Im surprised you even have to ask this question....Please tell me the last time 3300 americans were killed in New York City by terrorists and the last time People just doing their routine job were running into the Two Biggest Buildiings in the country to save lives while everyone else was running out and have them IMPLODE on top of them....yeah ho hum just a routine kinda work day nothing out of the ordinary...no special appropriation needed for Police, Firemen, civilian search and rescue workers...Small Business people and residents who lived in close proximity of the attack..not withstand those that have already died from Toxic Dust and Fumes the 55 rescuers that died of lung cancer directly from what they were breathing trying to save people from the rubble...or the medical drs and nurses that are sick from responding to help the victims and the rescuers..Not counting those that are already dead...60,000 people ...Rather than give them 4billion dollars for 5 yrs...lets give Obama a back door deal to continue unemployment benefits for 13 more months for hundreds of millions...or send israel another 4 billion..or maybe not only continue the never ending subsidies to big oil who make record profits quarter after quarter and who never LOSE money, but increase them...or give money to farmers so they want PLANT... Or the billions we piss away and giveaway every month to everyone BUT OUR OWN...so just who the fuck do these shitbird First responders think they are..
   Im a republican but republicans take stands on the most jerkoff of  things and then promptly bend over and piss away billions...
Yes very fiscally responsible to stop a bill and piss off and lose some of your own long time supporters and then cave in after making jerkoffs out of yourselves for 2billion...after giving obama hundreds of billions in a back door deal

Oh, zip, unknot your knickers. I ain't as stupid as you seem to think I am.  :P :P :P

Maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough...

James Madison, a fellow who had something to do with writing our Constitution, put it like this: "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." The question at hand in 1794 was proposed relief for French refugees of the Haitian revolution. Already, just seven years after the Constitution was adopted, and five years after the federal government began operations, the pork barrel had been born.

Now the pork barrel has no bottom. This nation does not have a future unless we learn to be true Conservatives, actually Constructionists, people dedicated to what the Constitution actually SAYS and MEANS. The Constitution is not a laundry list of the wonderful things our federal government can do. It is a detailed, limited, and purposely short delineation of the power of the federal government. Most of the Bill of Rights is a list of what the federal government SHALL NOT DO. And the inclusion of the Ninth Amendment and especially the Tenth Amendment was meant to insure that the new federal government would never step over that line.

Clearly the federal government has stepped an inch or two over that line.

I don't have an issue with providing for the 9/11 first responders, the firefighters, the EMTs, the cops, I don't have a problem with that -- AS LONG AS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Bring in the Red Cross, bring in every charity you can think of! (In fact, they've all been involved already!) Let NYC do it, or NY State. BUT KEEP THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT.

Those people WERE exposed to bad shit when the Trade Center buildings came down. But how is that a FEDERAL matter? Those people DO deserve special care, in my opinion. But how is that a FEDERAL matter? I think all those folks should be taken care of as generously as we can manage. While we're at it, why not throw in the workers that built the FTC buildings in the first place, and their families? They were exposed to all the same nasty shit while the buildings were going in the opposite direction. But how is that a FEDERAL matter?

How is ANY of this a FEDERAL matter?

Oh, and my stand on farm subsidies and federal assistance for the unemployed and foreign aid for Israel or any other country... it's the same. How is it the business of the FEDERAL government? Where in the  US Constitution does it say that we should all be taxed to take care of these things, or that the federal government is permitted to meddle in these things?

It is not insignificant that we're doing this as a nation without the participation of nearly half the population as taxpayers. The Progressives or Liberals or Socialists or Communists -- call 'em what you will -- have been very busy building a voter base, and the non-payers ARE the voter base.

THIS NATION WILL WITHER AND DIE if we can't stop this shit.

That's not what I want for my grandkids.

:::stepping carefully down off the high-horse now:::
:P :P :P

  Did you have a problem Tbone with this..

  The democrats agreed to make PERMANENT all tax cuts for 98% of americans making under 250,000 PERMANENT never again have to worry about those particular taxs going up.
  The republicans took a stand that the 2% of richest americans should get the tax cut or no one..I dont have a problem with that at all...heres what I do have a problem with.
   To get tax cuts for the wealthiest americans they shafted everyone making 250k or below by taking away their permanent tax reduction status and making it for only two years...then gave obama Hundreds of Billions in more spending that he wouldnt have gotten except for the republicans special interest wealthiest americans....Then they turn around and want to showboat how fiscally responsible they are for a mere 2billion for people that were caught in an extraordinary circumstance that has only happened once before in our history and got caught trying to save others...just as many non police and fireman are included in this...small business owners...City Residents...Volunteers that came from many different states to search the rubble for survivors plus medical personell that set up triages at the scene.
    The republicans have lost support and votes over that absurd weak attempt at showboating how fiscally responsible they are...no matter how this conservative forum thinks about it....the republicans need to choose their battles more carefully or they are going to go down just as fast and Pelosi and her democrat majority.
    The republicans backed off this first out they were given because they knew it was a loser for them...they were DUMB they gave the democrats the stage and they came out smelling like a rose to a majority of the country...including alot of republicans
   

   If they were really fiscally responsible they would have held out and fought to continue to the bush tax cuts with no more additonal spending.

   They made themselves look like smacked ass's to more people than not by filibustering for 2 billion and promptly bending over to hundreds of billions in spending....pfffffffffft.....you cant change the rules and not look like handjobs

Quote from: zip on December 24, 2010, 05:57:37 AM
  Did you have a problem Tbone with this..

  The democrats agreed to make PERMANENT all tax cuts for 98% of americans making under 250,000 PERMANENT never again have to worry about those particular taxs going up.
  The republicans took a stand that the 2% of richest americans should get the tax cut or no one..I dont have a problem with that at all...heres what I do have a problem with.
   To get tax cuts for the wealthiest americans they shafted everyone making 250k or below by taking away their permanent tax reduction status and making it for only two years...then gave obama Hundreds of Billions in more spending that he wouldnt have gotten except for the republicans special interest wealthiest americans....Then they turn around and want to showboat how fiscally responsible they are for a mere 2billion for people that were caught in an extraordinary circumstance that has only happened once before in our history and got caught trying to save others...just as many non police and fireman are included in this...small business owners...City Residents...Volunteers that came from many different states to search the rubble for survivors plus medical personell that set up triages at the scene.
    The republicans have lost support and votes over that absurd weak attempt at showboating how fiscally responsible they are...no matter how this conservative forum thinks about it....the republicans need to choose their battles more carefully or they are going to go down just as fast and Pelosi and her democrat majority.
    The republicans backed off this first out they were given because they knew it was a loser for them...they were DUMB they gave the democrats the stage and they came out smelling like a rose to a majority of the country...including alot of republicans
   

   If they were really fiscally responsible they would have held out and fought to continue to the bush tax cuts with no more additonal spending.

   They made themselves look like smacked ass's to more people than not by filibustering for 2 billion and promptly bending over to hundreds of billions in spending....pfffffffffft.....you cant change the rules and not look like handjobs

If they were REALLY fiscally responsible, they'd find ways to reduce the federal budget -- by about 90%. Any and all issues we have regarding federal taxation arise from one problem, the same problem every single time -- SPENDING on shit they have NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to spend on in the first place.

Tax cuts? What the hell are you talking about? What tax cuts? Whose taxes are going to be cut? Are yours? Mine aren't; they're gonna stay exactly the same next year as they are this year. How is that a tax cut? Please explain. In any case, if you really believe that ANYTHING Congress does with regard to taxes is "permanent," you've got a LOT of screws loose. They'll tell you that EVERYTHING they do is "permanent," but then, they've got you thinking you're gonna get a "tax cut," haven't they? ::)

I'm a big fan of the Fair Tax; I've talked about that here before. But that doesn't solve the basic problem, which is SPENDING. We have a political structure today that is so hell-bent on spending they've invented cute phrases like "quantitative easing" to hide the fact that they're willing to print new money (literally or electronically, it's the same thing) by the boatload to keep on spending, when doing so is nothing more -- or less -- than taxation without legislation or even notification. The SOLE ENTIRE reason for taking our money system off its gold and silver basis was to allow the federal government to do this. It is NOT coincidence that it was done by FDR and LBJ, two of the freest-spending social liberals ever to sit in the White House.

It is STUNNING to think that the richest, most powerful and successful nation in the history of the planet is taxing its citizens' incomes at rates as high as 35%, but it can't feed the ravenous monster that is its own national government.

Consider that, except for a brief period during the Civil War, the US had NO personal income tax AT ALL until 1913. The highest rate THEN was a whopping 7%. Most people paid at 1%. Hell, we had to amend the Constitution to make THAT happen, because the Constitution as written didn't permit the government to levy taxes on income PERIOD.

I don't spend a lot of time arguing about little adjustments in our marginal income tax rates. I'd rather point out things like what the latest census shows about growth in the few states that have no state income tax, and decline in those with high state income taxes. I don't want little bullshit "tax cuts" -- I want the IRS to disappear. I want my representatives to stop telling me that when my taxes don't change one penny, I'm getting a "tax cut." I want the federal government off my back and out of my pocket -- and my life.

Zip. turn off the TV, MSNBC and CNN will rot your brain.
Tax cuts is a lib talking point, there is no such animal, so don't tell me you don't watch that lib crap, it's obvious you do.

Quote from: Solar on December 24, 2010, 08:40:01 AM
Zip. turn off the TV, MSNBC and CNN will rot your brain.
Tax cuts is a lib talking point, there is no such animal, so don't tell me you don't watch that lib crap, it's obvious you do.

   I used the wrong terminology and thats all you and tbone got out of my post...and you respond with an accusation and an attempted insult that is absolutely false solar...

    I never watch msnbc or cnn...neither have been on my television in years...
I know very well that the tax package is a continuation of the bush tax cuts...I am not stupid or braindead. Whether or not I used the wrong terminology...the facts of my post are the same and CORRECT

    Obama and the democrats had agreed to extend the bush cuts and make them PERMANENT for everyone that earned 250,000 and under..WITH NO ADDITIONAL SPENDING.....The republicans said no and wanted them extended for everyone and I AGREE WITH THAT..everyone should have the same. Instead of fighting and holding the line FISCALLY RESPONSIBLY as they claim they are...they lose the permanent status for 98% of americans they bend over for hundreds of billions of additional spending...so the 2% of wealthiest americans can get a 2 yrs extension....fine..I dont have a problem with that....MY PROBLEM is this

    They put on this grand sideshow showboating, OMFG how are we every going to pay for this First Responder bill...OMFG then they promptly bend over and let it go through for a whopping 2billion less...after they gave obama hundreds of billions...If they were really fiscal responsilble they should have made the deal with obama let the tax cuts expire but write a bill every cent of it goes to debt reduction EVERY PENNY..
    I KNOW the gop hurt themselves badly with police fire in NY and NJ and all their families and many many other supporters....
They all by themselves allowed the democrats to make fools out of them...the democrats won this issue big time..whether you want to admit that or not...they won on extending the tax cuts...and they won even bigger with the first responders bill...that was a total loser for the gop

Quote from: zip on December 24, 2010, 04:08:20 PM

    I KNOW the gop hurt themselves badly with police fire in NY and NJ and all their families and many many other supporters....
They all by themselves allowed the democrats to make fools out of them...the democrats won this issue big time..whether you want to admit that or not...they won on extending the tax cuts...and they won even bigger with the first responders bill...that was a total loser for the gop

No they did not win!
That is the impression the MSM is putting out there, only someone that watches the MSM would believe that.
Turn off the TV Zip, you aren't fooling anyone.

Quote from: Solar on December 24, 2010, 04:21:12 PM
No they did not win!
That is the impression the MSM is putting out there, only someone that watches the MSM would believe that.
Turn off the TV Zip, you aren't fooling anyone.

      Ok solar since your calling me a liar...ill leave this forum to all you real conservatives...

Let me wade in on this one and likely Piss off a lot of people like I did when I opened my big yap on LNF.

This whole sorry affair is disgraceful on the part of Pubs, conservatives tea party etc.

If this is an example of the direction we are going then I don't want any part of it.

True conservatives, real conservatives have as a priority the safety and well being of this country as a number one priority. You don't get that by screwing over and messing with those charged with defending the realm, be it the Military, the police, the firemen, first responders or disaster response of any kind. These insitutions may be the last bastions of conservative strongholds in America, that is one reason the LIBS are trying to destroy them and integrate them or don't you understand what DADT is truely about?

I recall when Bush got up and said he wanted this releif bill for 9/11 responders and people who came to clean up. The freaking libs' were throwing mega hissy fits over that.

Then of course along comes Katrina and since a majority of the folks involved were black...oh crap...well we got to give everybody too damn dumb to evacuate in the face of a hurricane a $2000 check for being stupid.

Its time that "conservatives" get a grip on reality. The major problem in the USA is FOREIGN aide, that coupled with our continued support of the UN. 23% of their operating capitol comes from the good ol' USA. Now when "conservatives" under whatever guise it wants to call itself gets its act together and adopts as a policy eliminating ALL foreign aide and zero budget for the UN and makes that a party plank the better it will be for all Americans.

If we continue to quibble over giving those who defend and support this country NO MATTER WHAT POLITICAL PARTY IS IN CHARGE their due then as far as i am concerned we aren't worth continuing as a nation.

Billy

Quote from: Solar on December 24, 2010, 04:21:12 PM
No they did not win!
That is the impression the MSM is putting out there, only someone that watches the MSM would believe that.
Turn off the TV Zip, you aren't fooling anyone.

My, aren't we emotional?
You know who gets emotional, don't you? ;) ::)

I don't get it, so Husein care isn't enough, or their own health care paid for by the tax payers of New York city?
Since when is it my responsibility to pay for their HC.
t
Sorry Billy, but this whole thing is nothing more than politics,he Dims are simply buying votes, these men and women have coverage by their city and State.
If there were people that didn't have coverage, then it is the local gov responsibility to foot the bill.

Sometimes we do things for others that endanger our own lives, and these people knew the consequences, it's all a part of the job.

Quote from: Solar on December 24, 2010, 05:51:30 PM
I don't get it, so Husein care isn't enough, or their own health care paid for by the tax payers of New York city?
Since when is it my responsibility to pay for their HC.
t
Sorry Billy, but this whole thing is nothing more than politics,he Dims are simply buying votes, these men and women have coverage by their city and State.
If there were people that didn't have coverage, then it is the local gov responsibility to foot the bill.

Sometimes we do things for others that endanger our own lives, and these people knew the consequences, it's all a part of the job.

Yeah they have coverage by the City and State but with the way things are going with healthcare how has that "agreement" they made or the contract they signed when hired changed???

The Govt made an agreement, implied perhaps but an agreement nonetheless. Then there is the whole FEMA thing which technically covers state, county or municipal employess while acting on behalf of the Federal Govt in a declared emergency

The Govt needs to live up to it or we need a new Govt.


Billy

I don't think they should get special treatment but they should get what is due them. It's the same thing that happened in Nam with agent orange, other wars with chemical problems, PTSD. Why must our government automatically say no to all medical problems when there is absolute proof that it's real. To me there should be no question that they get treated to all that toxic crap they had to breath. The other option is to have all of the first responders, fire fighters and police to just stay home and be safe rather then have to fight the local governments for help after the fact