Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 08:21:40 AM
I said unequivocally taxes will have to be raised across the board. Nothing about the rich, or punishing anyone.

AF said; You know my response.

Please don't say no one called me a Marxist, and please don't say I want to punish the rich. Please don't put words in my mouth. If you don't like what I say, fine, that's your choice, but I do not appreciate unwarranted attacks.


Hopefully this pissing contest is over.

Back up. Where did I put words in your mouth?
I didn't see AF post, so your argument is with him.

My point is that why are we focusing on raising taxes, when there is a shit load of waste that needs to be cut first.

Raising taxes in a depression, is like using gasoline to put out a fire.
This whole argument of taxing the rich higher than the rest, is pure Marxism.
If Paul did agree with the leftists, then he does have a Hell of a lot of explaining to do.

   heres a link

http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/main/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3327/House-Democrats-Ron-Paul-Vote-To-Saddle-Small-Businesses-With-A-JobKilling-Tax-Hike.aspx

  Heres the entire vote and official count...and ron paul did vote yes

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll604.xml

Quote from: zip on December 03, 2010, 08:35:29 AM
     This is what I THINK shooter...I believe they should extend the tax cuts for everyone temporarily that means ALL the tax cuts for every bracket...say 3 yrs. The GOP should assure they cut as much as they can of the SHIT and waste once they demonstrate they have cut fundamentally all the could...and we BELIEVE Them...then evaluate if thats enough to do the job. If they demonstrate to me that they have made cuts in federal spending as deeply as they can and its still not enough...then they can take my tax break TEMPORARILY till the debt is down.

Suit yourself my friend. 3 more years of this crap and there won't be much left. Given a choice between tax increases coupled with a drastic cut in spending, or default with the crap that will accompany the default, I believe the tax increases would be better, but that is my opinion. This debt is unsustainable and cutting a few token programs won't solve it. It will take massive cuts abd he/she/they that do so, will surely pay the price at the polls.

Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 08:53:21 AM
Suit yourself my friend. 3 more years of this crap and there won't be much left. Given a choice between tax increases coupled with a drastic cut in spending, or default with the crap that will accompany the default, I believe the tax increases would be better, but that is my opinion. This debt is unsustainable and cutting a few token programs won't solve it. It will take massive cuts abd he/she/they that do so, will surely pay the price at the polls.

       Sorry, I dont trust them to raise my taxs then make cuts in spending, they have proven themselves full of shit over and over when it came to that....this time leave my taxes ALONE and show me your going to make the hard cuts...Im not putting my cart before the horse

Quote from: Solar on December 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Back up. Where did I put words in your mouth?
I didn't see AF post, so your argument is with him.

My point is that why are we focusing on raising taxes, when there is a shit load of waste that needs to be cut first.

Raising taxes in a depression, is like using gasoline to put out a fire.
This whole argument of taxing the rich higher than the rest, is pure Marxism.
If Paul did agree with the leftists, then he does have a Hell of a lot of explaining to do.

You made the statement no one was calling me a Marxist. You then  accused me of punishing the rich.

My entire premise has been across the board increases, coupled with spending cuts, to reduce the debt, because anything less, in my opinion, will not do the trick.

Some think a few spending cuts alone will do it. Their opinion, of course, is noted.

Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
You made the statement no one was calling me a Marxist.

So what, totally irrelevant.

QuoteYou then  accused me of punishing the rich.

What else is it?
You can spin it anyway you like, but charging someone more, simply because they have more money, is what it is, a punishment, period!

QuoteMy entire premise has been across the board increases, coupled with spending cuts, to reduce the debt, because anything less, in my opinion, will not do the trick.

Fine, but why start with a tax increase, when, as Zip so eloquently stated, the bastards are full of shit, and have been lining their pockets long enough.
Lets start with cuts first, then when we hit a bare bones Gov, then and only then can we discuss increases.
Is that too much to ask?

QuoteSome think a few spending cuts alone will do it. Their opinion, of course, is noted.

Really, who?

Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
You made the statement no one was calling me a Marxist. You then  accused me of punishing the rich.

My entire premise has been across the board increases, coupled with spending cuts, to reduce the debt, because anything less, in my opinion, will not do the trick.

Some think a few spending cuts alone will do it. Their opinion, of course, is noted.

Stealing more of peoples' property never will do the trick, Shooter.  You know better than that.

Quote from: taxed on December 03, 2010, 12:50:00 PM
Stealing more of peoples' property never will do the trick, Shooter.  You know better than that.

Neither will a nickel and dime approach to reducing the debt. I hate taxes as much as anyone ( I just sold property that had been in my family for 160 years to try to save on taxes next year ) , but I just don't see anyway out of this crap.

Reduction of taxes without a corresponding reduction in spending only exacerbates the problem. We haven't had both yet, and it's doubtful we ever will until forced. Default will cost us all very dearly.

So tell me, guys, exactly how you would go about reducing the over 110 Trillion future debt load? ( it may be even more and probably is )

Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 01:44:36 PM
Neither will a nickel and dime approach to reducing the debt. I hate taxes as much as anyone ( I just sold property that had been in my family for 160 years to try to save on taxes next year ) , but I just don't see anyway out of this crap.

Reduction of taxes without a corresponding reduction in spending only exacerbates the problem. We haven't had both yet, and it's doubtful we ever will until forced. Default will cost us all very dearly.

So tell me, guys, exactly how you would go about reducing the over 110 Trillion future debt load? ( it may be even more and probably is )

If I said hunting liberals, would that be wrong? ::)
We could charge each hunter a fee per take....

Quote from: Solar on December 03, 2010, 02:44:36 PM
If I said hunting liberals, would that be wrong? ::)
We could charge each hunter a fee per take....

Highly impractical.

Quote from: zip on December 03, 2010, 08:56:03 AM
       Sorry, I dont trust them to raise my taxs then make cuts in spending, they have proven themselves full of shit over and over when it came to that....this time leave my taxes ALONE and show me your going to make the hard cuts...Im not putting my cart before the horse

Point taken, but still doesn't answer the question of what happens if we default.

Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 03:14:23 PM
Point taken, but still doesn't answer the question of what happens if we default.

   Shooter we lived through a depression...well the middle class did the rich couldnt handle moving down to our bracket so they dived off buildings  ;D ;D ;D  I dont have the same chicken little attitude as you...I think its going to take a couple of 3 yrs and the US will come back and just like in the 90s when everyone was yelling the sky was falling and the deficit is going to stangle us...here comes the tech companies and the govt coffers just overflowed with cash until there was a surplus and everyone was doing just swell.
   Are things worse now yes...will it take longer...yes...do we have to cut spending yes....and if the worst happens and we default oh well what can you do but ride it out.
   I dont think things are as bad as it seems..I think the corporations and banks are fighing a war...a war against obama and socialists that are attacking them...and all the unemployed are the pawns in the middle of the battle..collateral dmg...I think as soon as january rolls around and the gop takes control of the house...your going to see a miraculus trend upward....slow but sure....oh did I mention im no expert on anything but thats what I think

Quote from: Shooterman on December 03, 2010, 03:12:40 PM
Highly impractical.

Party pooper... :P

I may be old but have yet seen some one come up with how we are going to pay off the 110 Trillion future debts.  Or the 13+Trillon we now have.  I see only don't do this and don't do that.  Just keep it out of my back yard. 

For over 60 years I have seen each side spend like fools.  But they have no problems tell me I must live within my means. (take home pay) and save money for old age.  We all know the government has a lot of money rat holed away in areas we do not even know about. 

Why not take all of congress retirement money also and put it into paying off some of the debts like they have SS.  Then move all them over into o b care.

 
Old man just thinking.   ;D

Quote from: walkstall on December 03, 2010, 03:46:03 PM
I may be old but have yet seen some one come up with how we are going to pay off the 110 Trillion future debts.  Or the 13+Trillon we now have.  I see only don't do this and don't do that.  Just keep it out of my back yard. 

For over 60 years I have seen each side spend like fools.  But they have no problems tell me I must live within my means. (take home pay) and save money for old age.  We all know the government has a lot of money rat holed away in areas we do not even know about. 

Why not take all of congress retirement money also and put it into paying off some of the debts like they have SS.  Then move all them over into o b care.

 
Old man just thinking.   ;D

The Old Man is thinking pretty straight. Many, many um-dega-degas have been said, but no one wants to touch the 'what to dos'.