Leftists always say, "We're just asking for this one modest change." It's always a lie. Every demand the left makes is to position themselves to make their next demand.
"Gay marriage" is just one step of the leftists' agenda. Once that gets established nationwide, the next argument will be for "equal adoption rights." "Don't discriminate against same sex couples when adopting out children" will be the argument.
This is, of course, a bad idea. Libraries full of studies show that children grow up into emotionally healthy adults most reliably when they have a mother and a father in the home.
This coming campaign for "non-discrimination" will put adults' pleasure ahead of children's health.
Why would leftists want to do this?
It's part of a larger war against the family.
Leftists worship government. Leftists see every other institution of society (family, church, business, etc.) as a competitor for power and influence. Leftists want ALL of everyone's allegiance to be to the government. Remember the theme of the Democrats' 2012 Convention: "Government is the one thing we all belong to."
They've propagandized and legislated the church into irrelevance. (Senator Lyndon Johnson (D-TX) sponsored the IRS Act of 1954, which, in violation of the First Amendment, forbids churches from criticizing public policy. It says that churches must stop saying what the Bible says about an issue whenever the politicians have decided to disregard the Bible and the historic lessons it contains.)
Their war on business is obvious. Taxes and regulations already heavily hinder business. Their ultimate goal is to nationalize all industry. No free enterprise. (At least none of any significance. They might allow some small shops to exist, to draw attention away from the fact that they've seized all the industries of any importance.)
Their war on the family has been going on for decades. "Sexual freedom" has spawned millions of babies to unwed mothers, who depend on government for everything. The drug culture promoted by the media destroys the home life of many of those babies, giving the government an excuse to take custody of the babies.
And now, adoption by same sex couples will divert many of those babies from being adopted into traditional families, with their centuries-long allegiances, and into same sex "families" who already tend to look to government for everything.
The leftists' goal is to erode every institution of society other than government into irrelevance, and ultimately, out of existence.
I think you got it right on all counts! :thumbup:
This doesn't surprise me. After abortion, anything can happen now.
My first concern is the church and religious liberty. They are going to be sued if they say what the left considers homophobic, or a pastor refuses to marry a gay couple.
Quote from: Dori on June 26, 2015, 08:33:56 AM
This doesn't surprise me. After abortion, anything can happen now.
My first concern is the church and religious liberty. They are going to be sued if they say what the left considers homophobic, or a pastor refuses to marry a gay couple.
I heard one reporter say that Pastor's are protected in this ruling. They will not be forced to do gay marriages.
However, we all know that this is just another slippery slope that will change down the road.
So. How soon before the Muslims demand a right to Polygamy?
Quote from: mdgiles on June 26, 2015, 11:06:23 AM
So. How soon before the Muslims demand a right to Polygamy?
Tomorrow afternoon!! 👿
Quote from: mdgiles on June 26, 2015, 11:06:23 AM
So. How soon before the Muslims demand a right to Polygamy?
Mormons already are in some states. It's not just muslims who practice that. As for this thing about marriage today though, the court was absolutely right in it's ruling. Why? because the government has involved itself in a religious matter in violation of the first to start with. And second, the government affords certain "rights" to citizen's who marry.
Yet while everyone is supposed to have "equal rights" under the law, in many states, you can't and dont have that. IF you happen to be of a particular gender.
So while yes, it might be popular for conservatives to be against gay marriage, or pro-marriage is a man and a woman union.
To be fair under the law, now that government has involved itself in something it shouldn't have been in to start with, we have to allow same sex marriages.
Quote from: kroz on June 26, 2015, 11:15:21 AM
Tomorrow afternoon!! 👿
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Funny, but sadly true.....
Ok so I go to do a google search, related to the nasa pluto mission. (wanted to see if any new images are out yet) and what do I find smack dab middle of the page? This:
YouTube and Google are proud to celebrate marriage equality. #ProudtoLove
WTF? The ruling just came out today, and already googles proud to celebrate marriage equality?
Why is google even involving itself with that? I mean they exist as a search engine company, not a PAC.
Quote from: daidalos on June 26, 2015, 12:39:42 PM
Ok so I go to do a google search, related to the nasa pluto mission. (wanted to see if any new images are out yet) and what do I find smack dab middle of the page? This:
YouTube and Google are proud to celebrate marriage equality. #ProudtoLove
WTF? The ruling just came out today, and already googles proud to celebrate marriage equality?
Why is google even involving itself with that? I mean they exist as a search engine company, not a PAC.
There is a concerted effort to create so much LBGT noise that it is deemed the new norm by EVERYONE!
Only those radical religious bigots are against true love!!! And their weak voices are totally muffled by the celebration of sodomy!
Here's another goal the left is pressing for in all of this:
Montgomery County (Dayton) Ohio Probate Court Judge Alice McCollum just said on TV:
"If someone has a moral objection to (gay marriage)
that would be an ethical problem and
that person needs to step down from the bench."
Gay marriage is NOT about "just letting all people express their love" as they claim it is!
It has been used as a hammer to force Christians to go out of business,
and now we have a clear statement that
they plan to use it as a hammer to force all Christians out of public office!
Quote from: je_freedom on June 26, 2015, 02:16:26 PM
Here's another goal the left is pressing for in all of this:
Montgomery County (Dayton) Ohio Probate Court Judge Alice McCollum just said on TV:
"If someone has a moral objection to (gay marriage)
that would be an ethical problem and
that person needs to step down from the bench."
Gay marriage is NOT about "just letting all people express their love" as they claim it is!
It has been used as a hammer to force Christians to go out of business,
and now we have a clear statement that
they plan to use it as a hammer to force all Christians out of public office!
I agree.
The ultimate target all along has been God.
They don't like Him and want Him gone!
Quote from: je_freedom on June 26, 2015, 02:16:26 PM
Here's another goal the left is pressing for in all of this:
Montgomery County (Dayton) Ohio Probate Court Judge Alice McCollum just said on TV:
"If someone has a moral objection to (gay marriage)
that would be an ethical problem and
that person needs to step down from the bench."
Gay marriage is NOT about "just letting all people express their love" as they claim it is!
It has been used as a hammer to force Christians to go out of business,
and now we have a clear statement that
they plan to use it as a hammer to force all Christians out of public office!
Absolutely correct Je.
From the Communist Goals 1963
Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
Quote from: Solar on June 26, 2015, 02:35:04 PM
Absolutely correct Je.
From the Communist Goals 1963
Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
It has been over 50 years ago, but they have succeeded amazingly! :scared:
Quote from: kroz on June 26, 2015, 02:38:10 PM
It has been over 50 years ago, but they have succeeded amazingly! :scared:
I read that thread regularly, and cringe at how much has taken place in just the last 8 years under Dim/Marxist control. :cry:
Quote from: Solar on June 26, 2015, 02:54:38 PM
I read that thread regularly, and cringe at how much has taken place in just the last 8 years under Dim/Marxist control. :cry:
Yes, the slippery slope speeds up over time until it reaches dangerous speeds! The dominoes come crashing down!
This should get interesting.
SCOTUS Ruling On Same-Sex Marriage Mandates Nationwide Concealed Carry Reciprocity
If you're following any of the various media outlets this morning, you're probably aware that the U.S. Supreme Court has just extended gay marriage to all 50 states.
READ MORE....
http://bearingarms.com/scotus-ruling-sex-marriage-mandates-nationwide-concealed-carry-reciprocity/
Quote from: mdgiles on June 26, 2015, 11:06:23 AM
So. How soon before the Muslims demand a right to Polygamy?
Or the Mormons
Quote from: daidalos on June 26, 2015, 12:39:42 PM
Ok so I go to do a google search, related to the nasa pluto mission. (wanted to see if any new images are out yet) and what do I find smack dab middle of the page? This:
YouTube and Google are proud to celebrate marriage equality. #ProudtoLove
WTF? The ruling just came out today, and already googles proud to celebrate marriage equality?
Why is google even involving itself with that? I mean they exist as a search engine company, not a PAC.
Firefox does stuff like that to.
I had to laugh
I went to use google, just to see :scared:
Then I found this
Minnesota Vikings cornerback Josh Robinson compared gay marriage to pedophilia and incest in a series of Twitter posts on Friday following the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marriage.
The landmark Supreme Court decision effectively legalizes same-sex marriage in all 50 states. The Court's 2013 decision ruling the crux of the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional and subsequent decisions from lower courts laid the groundwork for Friday's decision in Obergefell v. Hodges.
My first thought, How many games will he be suspended for?
How long before He is forced to apologize?
Quote from: Norseman on June 26, 2015, 04:16:59 PM
I had to laugh
I went to use google, just to see :scared:
Then I found this
Minnesota Vikings cornerback Josh Robinson compared gay marriage to pedophilia and incest in a series of Twitter posts on Friday following the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marriage.
The landmark Supreme Court decision effectively legalizes same-sex marriage in all 50 states. The Court's 2013 decision ruling the crux of the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional and subsequent decisions from lower courts laid the groundwork for Friday's decision in Obergefell v. Hodges.
My first thought, How many games will he be suspended for?
How long before He is forced to apologize?
Oh no, this is much more serious!! He will likely lose his job!
Dissent is untenable!!! :ohmy:
Quote from: kroz on June 26, 2015, 04:22:56 PM
Oh no, this is much more serious!! He will likely lose his job!
Dissent is untenable!!! :ohmy:
I know it sounds silly but look at the big deal they made out of the first openly gay player in the NFL
Youre probably right,I could see him getting fired
The team plays in one of the most liberal cities in the Midwest..............wouldnt surprise me at all if hes fired
Heres what else He said
While a number of athletes praised the Court's decision, Robinson questioned whether the logic that has led to the legalization of gay marriage could also allow the justification of pedophilia and incest.
Sheep need love too.
Quote from: darroll on June 26, 2015, 04:36:36 PM
Sheep need love too.
The floodgates are now opened. Anything is now possible..... anything!!!
Quote from: Bronx on June 26, 2015, 03:52:18 PM
This should get interesting.
SCOTUS Ruling On Same-Sex Marriage Mandates Nationwide Concealed Carry Reciprocity
If you're following any of the various media outlets this morning, you're probably aware that the U.S. Supreme Court has just extended gay marriage to all 50 states.
READ MORE....
http://bearingarms.com/scotus-ruling-sex-marriage-mandates-nationwide-concealed-carry-reciprocity/
If a case would make it to the scotus, I'm sure we will be able to watch roberts dance around again. He's got some dog and pony show going on.
Quote from: kroz on June 26, 2015, 11:15:21 AM
Tomorrow afternoon!! 👿
Your timing was perfect! Here's the first article on
Politico.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/gay-marriage-decision-polygamy-119469_full.html#.VY3syc4n-zI
"If the Internet seems slow today, it's because every blog post denouncing slippery-slope warnings about polygamy is being quietly deleted.
— John Hayward (@Doc_0) June 26, 2015" (Twitter - https://twitter.com/Doc_0/status/614442900299120640)
Having 2 or 3 wives is any sicker than 2 guys or girls going at it?
CCW permit reciprocity in all 50 States....that should piss off Obamao and his Gun COntrol AGenda.... :thumbsup:
On Megyn Kelly's show, she just showed a live shot of the White House all lit up in rainbow colors.
http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzA2LzI3L2RkL3doaXRlaG91c2UuMWI0NjguanBnCnAJdGh1bWIJOTUweDUzNCMKZQlqcGc/8a010409/24b/whitehouse.jpg
People on the Right who have spines, who still have fight left in them, who have no intention of surrendering to the Leftist word vision need to band together now like they never have before.
As Ben Franklin said: "We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
I think the Right in this country has been terribly disorganized in fighting the culture war and would do well to re-form the ranks so to speak. We need to turn the nation into a metaphorical minefield, Liberals need to be afraid of encroaching further on our values.
We need to agitate like Liberals do, when a bakery refuses to provide service for a gay wedding, Liberals swarm down on the business owners. The Right needs to do some of the same in our own sense, when we see encroachments upon our values we need to have a reflexive and intense response to make Liberals back off. I get so discouraged when I see the Leftist dominance on social media (of course most are low information trendies), and wish we had a greater Right wing presence to strike back. I saw a conservative hashtag get hijacked by liberals the other night and I thought, "if only we had greater numbers, we could push back and seize a share of the spotlight we need to stay relevant".
Even seemingly insignificant actions build up when you add to your numbers. We need to flood social media with our message, constantly pester sanctimonious liberals until they relent if from nothing else than sheer exhaustion.
As Justice Antonin Scalia has warned in his eloquent dissent, democracy itself is at stake. Ironically, Chief
Justice Roberts got it right today, when he says that the opinion by the liberals on
the Court has nothing to do with the Constitution. Here is my statement:
Today's decision shows that the Supreme Court can be a danger to our republican form
of government. The opinion authored by Justice Kennedy is not constitutional, is
unmoored from law and precedent - and is invalid. The exercise of raw judicial power
by five justices should be resisted under law and overturned. Justices Kennedy,
Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan abused their public offices and acted
contrary to their oaths of office by assuming the power to legislate their
progressive views on homosexual marriage from the bench. The personal advocacy for
homosexual causes by justices in the majority has also cast an ethical cloud over
this decision. This decision will lead to frontal assaults, led by the Obama
administration, on a right which actually is in the Constitution, the right to
freely exercise one's religion. I fear this judicial coup will lead to social
unrest, the jailing of religious leaders, and other outrages against those Americans
who shared the views of Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, and all of Western civilization
on traditional marriage. This is a terrible, terrible day for our nation.
We know what a punch to the gut these rulings are for our readers and supporters who
value the rule of law and the idea of constitutional limited government. For the
moment, those principles are lost. I encourage you to read all three opinions at
issue (especially the dissents!). Again, you can view the opinion on marriage here
(http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf)
My opinions on this are a little convoluted. I wouldn't have reacted like this had each and every state legalized marriage on its own.
The WAY this happened, though, terrifies me. Homosexual marriage is not only legal now, but a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. There is no way this is going to end well for anyone that doesn't change their mind. Social conservatives and their allies will be socially ostracized for "hate speech", and any churches that do not bow down and kiss the ring are going to lose their tax exempt status and become seen as the new KKK.
I am not the strongest social conservative, but I don't generally approve of gays and think they display disordered behavior. They should be tolerated, not celebrated. Saying this on my Facebook wall would get me unfriended en masse, and possibly impact any future job prospects of mine. It's only going to get worse.
What's next? I've always prided myself on being able to have friends of every political stripe, but that might not last now. I'm certainly not going to change my mind on what I know to be true because it'll make me blend into society better. I'm willing to lose every last friend I have over this.
Quote from: GuyMontag on June 26, 2015, 07:27:50 PM
My opinions on this are a little convoluted. I wouldn't have reacted like this had each and every state legalized marriage on its own.
The WAY this happened, though, terrifies me. Homosexual marriage is not only legal now, but a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. There is no way this is going to end well for anyone that doesn't change their mind. Social conservatives and their allies will be socially ostracized for "hate speech", and any churches that do not bow down and kiss the ring are going to lose their tax exempt status and become seen as the new KKK.
I am not the strongest social conservative, but I don't generally approve of gays and think they display disordered behavior. They should be tolerated, not celebrated. Saying this on my Facebook wall would get me unfriended en masse, and possibly impact any future job prospects of mine. It's only going to get worse.
What's next? I've always prided myself on being able to have friends of every political stripe, but that might not last now. I'm certainly not going to change my mind on what I know to be true because it'll make me blend into society better. I'm willing to lose every last friend I have over this.
If you do they were not true friends.
I feel for the young people today. Especially people like yourself. A lot of your peers probably don't even realize what's happening to this government, the country and how it will affect all of you.
Quote from: GuyMontag on June 26, 2015, 07:27:50 PM
My opinions on this are a little convoluted. I wouldn't have reacted like this had each and every state legalized marriage on its own.
The WAY this happened, though, terrifies me. Homosexual marriage is not only legal now, but a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. There is no way this is going to end well for anyone that doesn't change their mind. Social conservatives and their allies will be socially ostracized for "hate speech", and any churches that do not bow down and kiss the ring are going to lose their tax exempt status and become seen as the new KKK.
I am not the strongest social conservative, but I don't generally approve of gays and think they display disordered behavior. They should be tolerated, not celebrated. Saying this on my Facebook wall would get me unfriended en masse, and possibly impact any future job prospects of mine. It's only going to get worse.
What's next? I've always prided myself on being able to have friends of every political stripe, but that might not last now. I'm certainly not going to change my mind on what I know to be true because it'll make me blend into society better. I'm willing to lose every last friend I have over this.
What? So then it's your position, then, that some Americans should have protections under the laws of the United States, that only some Americans, should even be afforded RIGHTS under the laws of the United States because of their choice of sexual preference?
Instead of ALL Americans being equal under thet laws of the United States. What's scary, is how truly un-American that position you as a "young college age person" would have.
Not only that, but you are also then, in favor of a blatant violation of the separation of church and state. I can't even begin to tell you, all the way's THAT should scare you.
Way, way, way more than who's sleeping with who.
Seriously, don't they teach college kids anymore, that on the lists of important things, the very first bill of rights, in our Constitution, and chief limits on government power and authority to oppress the people, is way way up there, at the top of the list of things to worry and be scared about. Long before being scared about who's sleeping with whom?
Quote from: Dori on June 26, 2015, 07:35:20 PM
I feel for the young people today. Especially people like yourself. A lot of your peers probably don't even realize what's happening to this government, the country and how it will affect all of you.
You are right, these young people today, think that equality under the law should be done away with. And that only some citizen's should have RIGHTS upheld and respected.
That the law should only work for some Americans. Another poster said they're willing to lose every friend they have over this "issue".
That's nice, but are you willing to kill or possibly be killed over it?
Because I can assure you, and this is not a threat, simply a fact of American culture, ideology, and existence.
There's millions of us, willing to kill, and if need be die, to ensure ALL AMERICANS have their rights respected, that ALL
AMERICANS are and remain equal under the law.
We as a nation have already given too much blood, sweat and tears to ensure that is the case. Don't think, we won't again either. Again not a threat of any kind, just a simple historical fact of the American ideology, culture, experience, history.
We call them the United States Military, Police, and Veterans. :lol:
well look what the cat dragged in.
Quote from: daidalos on June 26, 2015, 08:12:41 PM
What? So then it's your position, then, that some Americans should have protections under the laws of the United States, that only some Americans, should even be afforded RIGHTS under the laws of the United States because of their choice of sexual preference?
Homosexuals already have the right to marry - Elton John can marry any woman he wants. the funny thing is here, he's not interested in this particular right. what we're talking about, Daidalos, is *redefinition* of marriage, and the current definition has worked for the past, oh, TWO THOUSAND years or so.
Quote from: daidalos on June 26, 2015, 08:12:41 PMNot only that, but you are also then, in favor of a blatant violation of the separation of church and state. I can't even begin to tell you, all the way's THAT should scare you. Way, way, way more than who's sleeping with who.
You're talking to someone who's a borderline atheist. I don't care if two men want to have buttsex and cuddle for a solid half-century, they're not affecting me. What I do care about is the highest court in the country saying that marriage is now a *right*. Anyone who now fits under that umbrella that I don't consider a valid addition I have to approve of or be labeled a member of the anti-gay KKK. I already have to choose what I say around other people with this subject. I can't imagine what I'll have to act like when my views become legally defined hate speech.
(Here's a lowdown of my views - marriage is an institution that exists to continue society within the context of the nuclear family - as well as control sex and put it into a proper context. When a man and a woman decide to stop dating around and commit to each other, marry, and reproduce, they pop out a family that then becomes that society's next generation. These new people aren't just babies for mommy and daddy to raise and cuddle in front of - these new people are soldiers. They vote. They participate in the economy and keep it going. They then marry and reproduce themselves, and give us even more people. We get *none* of that from homosexuals marrying, so why encourage an extension/redefinition of an institution when it's not going to pay dividends?)
Quote from: daidalos on June 26, 2015, 08:12:41 PMSeriously, don't they teach college kids anymore, that on the lists of important things, the very first bill of rights, in our Constitution, and chief limits on government power and authority to oppress the people, is way way up there, at the top of the list of things to worry and be scared about.
Yep, a large and oppressive government is certainly something to be scared about. I also, by that logic, don't like government waste - or, in this case, the invention and solution to a problem that don't exist to make a very loud minority (what is it, 3% according to the CDC?) happy.
Quote from: daidalos on June 26, 2015, 08:28:21 PM
You are right, these young people today, think that equality under the law should be done away with. And that only some citizen's should have RIGHTS upheld and respected. That the law should only work for some Americans. Another poster said they're willing to lose every friend they have over this "issue". That's nice, but are you willing to kill or possibly be killed over it?
Daidalos - I want to live in a country where Christians (my entire extended family, by the way) can freely exercise their religion without persecution - and yes, I'd be willing to fight and die for that cause. What's up next for Christianity is an existential threat that might not be an outright ban, but it's going to force the entire belief system onto the margins of society. (If you don't think that's just as bad, try being an open Neo-Nazi and holding down a decent job.)
Public opinion on homosexual marriage was trending toward the positive, but there was still hope that the pro-gay marriage and anti-gay marriage points of view could have existed side by side and learned to tolerate one another. This, as I said earlier, makes homosexual marriages a right alongside traditional marriages - which short-circuits the end result. Mainstream Christians that take their faith seriously aren't just going to kowtow to what's fast becoming the social norm. This new legal precedent doesn't bode well for them. If you don't think that denomination after denomination are going to get the absolute shit sued out of them for discrimination, watch. Churches are already being forced to marry homosexuals in England and Denmark. It can damn well happen here.
Losing their tax-exempt status is the worry right now...that may end up being the least of their worries around a decade after today.
Do you ever wonder how a small percentage of the population can push around the majority and what we can do about it?
I came across an awesome interview with Dr. Tim Daughtry
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX that answers those questions as well how to argue with liberals and win and more.
Go to YouTube and look up:
Tim Daughtry: How Mainstream Americans Can Beat Liberals At Their Own Game.
It's a 48 min. video that answers a lot of questions. Entertaining and worth every minute. Be sure to get his book.
Hmm... Your first post and your promoting a web site and a book...
walks
Quote from: daidalos on June 26, 2015, 08:12:41 PM
What? So then it's your position, then, that some Americans should have protections under the laws of the United States, that only some Americans, should even be afforded RIGHTS under the laws of the United States because of their choice of sexual preference?
Instead of ALL Americans being equal under thet laws of the United States. What's scary, is how truly un-American that position you as a "young college age person" would have.
Not only that, but you are also then, in favor of a blatant violation of the separation of church and state. I can't even begin to tell you, all the way's THAT should scare you.
Way, way, way more than who's sleeping with who.
Seriously, don't they teach college kids anymore, that on the lists of important things, the very first bill of rights, in our Constitution, and chief limits on government power and authority to oppress the people, is way way up there, at the top of the list of things to worry and be scared about. Long before being scared about who's sleeping with whom?
The thing is you actually acknowledge the central problem, yet gloss over it as do the lying liberals who are forcing their dogma of outright EVIL on what was once a great nation.
Behavior is ALWAYS a CHOICE. The claim "homosexuals are born that way" is not only an unsupported claim, but is entirely irrelevant. As human beings, we are ALL born with certain tendencies. One of the biggest is our natural tendency towards violence. Yet we are expected to keep our instinctual tendencies under control for the better stability of society as a whole.
Sexual behavior is exactly that: a BEHAVIOR, and is therefore under our control. (IF we want to be human beings and not just a bunch of mindless sex-crazy animals. I sometimes think the latter is the ultimate goal of humanist progressives - aka modern liberals.) The claim that homosexuals are EQUAL to everyone else under traditional marriage laws is completely valid. Any person could choose to marry a person of the opposite gender, as long as they are not related. Claiming they are not equal because they CHOOSE a different lifestyle is like saying we owe people a middle-class standard of living even though they choose behavior which does not make a living on their own. The homosexuals CHOOSE their behavior, and then demand all the rest of society alter an insititution as old as civilization in order kowtow to their choice.
There are several societal advantages to government involvement in the religion-origin institution of marriage. For instance, laws of inheritance were written in a manner to take advantage of the relationships developed under marriage.
Second, the rearing of children under traditional marriage in which the offspring enjoy the relationship with a parent of each gender has been shown repeatedly to be far superior to other types of upbringing.
The purpose of government writing laws which make marriage a fiscal advantage were designed to encourage the formation of that base unit structure - FAMILY - which in turn leads to a more stable, thus more just, equitable, long term society. The disintegration of the family unit has been a long term goal of the humanist progressives, and this is the latest (and possibly final) attack on family, which in turn WILL bring down this society, leaving us with a shell of absolute tyranny supported by a shell society based on self absorbed hedonism. (If you care to observe, the only issue humanist progressives truly get up in arms about is their sex lives. They want the "right" to hump like mindless rabbits while society absorbs any and all consequences of their hedonism. All other "rights" which conservatives hold as being of divine origin are, by their own description, limited according to the desires of the state.
The idea that redefinition of marriage is a GOOD thing is simple ignorance of the base structure of our society.
And that is the SECULAR argument. Bringing in God, and it's even more simple: God will NEVER grant His Grace on a nation which turns its back on His laws. Without His grace, we will not last another generation. Welcome to tyranny. "May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
Quote from: GuyMontag on June 26, 2015, 08:37:17 PM
well look what the cat dragged in.
Homosexuals already have the right to marry - Elton John can marry any woman he wants. the funny thing is here, he's not interested in this particular right. what we're talking about, Daidalos, is *redefinition* of marriage, and the current definition has worked for the past, oh, TWO THOUSAND years or so.
Yes we on the "right" who are truly conservatives, know and believe that the traditional marriage worked for thousands of years. However for most of those thousands of years, it was also a purely religious ceremony. It's only been in the last 150 or so years, where America has said, nope it's a function of government. As Conservatives we also believe hat sexuality is a choice. Whether homosexual or heterosexual it is a choice. Should a persons choice of sexuality, either create, or deny an American the same exact rights, and privileges under the law? I say no it shouldn't. equality under the law, should exist no matter what that choice is.
It is wrong, and unfair, to say, well if you make the choice the majority of conservatives like or agree with, we'll respect your rights, and even afford you new one's under the laws of the land, that we don't afford to everyone else.
But, if you make a choice of sexual preference we don't agree with, you get to be treated unfairly, and unequally under the law. And further, there are certain rights of yours we won't respect or uphold.
You're talking to someone who's a borderline atheist. I don't care if two men want to have buttsex and cuddle for a solid half-century, they're not affecting me. What I do care about is the highest court in the country saying that marriage is now a *right*. Anyone who now fits under that umbrella that I don't consider a valid addition I have to approve of or be labeled a member of the anti-gay KKK. I already have to choose what I say around other people with this subject. I can't imagine what I'll have to act like when my views become legally defined hate speech.
While I don't think anyone is labeling anyone as anti-gay KKK, since you bring up the point. That is precisely what the KKK did attempt to do.
The KKK only wanted the nation to respect the rights of, and afford equality under the law, for, groups the KKK agrees with and likes. Instead of respecting the rights, and affording equality to everyone under the law.
(Here's a lowdown of my views - marriage is an institution that exists to continue society within the context of the nuclear family - as well as control sex and put it into a proper context. When a man and a woman decide to stop dating around and commit to each other, marry, and reproduce, they pop out a family that then becomes that society's next generation. These new people aren't just babies for mommy and daddy to raise and cuddle in front of - these new people are soldiers. They vote. They participate in the economy and keep it going. They then marry and reproduce themselves, and give us even more people. We get *none* of that from homosexuals marrying, so why encourage an extension/redefinition of an institution when it's not going to pay dividends?)
I absolutely agree, marriage has always traditionally been, the start of a traditional nuclear family.
Yep, a large and oppressive government is certainly something to be scared about. I also, by that logic, don't like government waste - or, in this case, the invention and solution to a problem that don't exist to make a very loud minority (what is it, 3% according to the CDC?) happy.
And you are right about that in a way too. And, actually make the point I"ve been making for about three weeks now. The entire situation was created by government. When government decided to violate the separation of church and state. And involve itself in what IS and was a religious ceremony for thousands of years. So should we only respect and afford a citizen rights, and privileges under the law, because they've chosen to involve themselves in a religious ceremony, and someone else hasn't? As an atheist I would think you'd be among the first to agree with the concept that no, they should not. They should be equal to everyone else, despite not taking part in a religious ceremony called a marriage. Again the fact of the matter is that had government, not done that, meaning violate the separation of church and state. Had it not gone about for the past two hundred years, gone about involving itself in what for thousands of years prior was a religious ceremony, there wouldn't have been a court case for the SCOTUS to rule on in the first place, as marriage would have been an issue, that was staying where it started, and belonged. A religious ceremony.
Quote from: zewazir on June 26, 2015, 10:45:48 PM
The thing is you actually acknowledge the central problem, yet gloss over it as do the lying liberals who are forcing their dogma of outright EVIL on what was once a great nation.
Behavior is ALWAYS a CHOICE. The claim "homosexuals are born that way" is not only an unsupported claim, but is entirely irrelevant. As human beings, we are ALL born with certain tendencies. One of the biggest is our natural tendency towards violence. Yet we are expected to keep our instinctual tendencies under control for the better stability of society as a whole.
Sexual behavior is exactly that: a BEHAVIOR, and is therefore under our control. (IF we want to be human beings and not just a bunch of mindless sex-crazy animals. I sometimes think the latter is the ultimate goal of humanist progressives - aka modern liberals.) The claim that homosexuals are EQUAL to everyone else under traditional marriage laws is completely valid. (And yet the fact is, no they are not. due to their choice of behavior) Wehter a person has rights that will be respected by government or not, should have nothing to do with that choice. We all simply should be equal under the law, period. Regardless or our religious choices. Any person could choose to marry a person of the opposite gender, as long as they are not related. Claiming they are not equal because they CHOOSE a different lifestyle is like saying we owe people a middle-class standard of living even though they choose behavior which does not make a living on their own. The homosexuals CHOOSE their behavior, and then demand all the rest of society alter an insititution as old as civilization in order kowtow to their choice.
No it's saying that, we owe everyone equality under the law. Everyone should have the same rights, and have the same rights respected by government, regardless of their choice of behavior.
Just as for example a murderer has the right to a fair trial. Yes they chose to act, in a fashion that is wrong morally. And illegal under our law. But even then, despite their choice of behavior they have rights that are respected under the laws of the land. And are equal to anyone else, under the law too, again despite their choice of behavior.
There are several societal advantages to government involvement in the religion-origin institution of marriage. For instance, laws of inheritance were written in a manner to take advantage of the relationships developed under marriage.
Second, the rearing of children under traditional marriage in which the offspring enjoy the relationship with a parent of each gender has been shown repeatedly to be far superior to other types of upbringing.
The purpose of government writing laws which make marriage a fiscal advantage were designed to encourage the formation of that base unit structure - FAMILY - which in turn leads to a more stable, thus more just, equitable, long term society. The disintegration of the family unit has been a long term goal of the humanist progressives, and this is the latest (and possibly final) attack on family, which in turn WILL bring down this society, leaving us with a shell of absolute tyranny supported by a shell society based on self absorbed hedonism. (If you care to observe, the only issue humanist progressives truly get up in arms about is their sex lives. They want the "right" to hump like mindless rabbits while society absorbs any and all consequences of their hedonism. All other "rights" which conservatives hold as being of divine origin are, by their own description, limited according to the desires of the state.
The idea that redefinition of marriage is a GOOD thing is simple ignorance of the base structure of our society.
And that is the SECULAR argument. Bringing in God, and it's even more simple: God will NEVER grant His Grace on a nation which turns its back on His laws. Without His grace, we will not last another generation. Welcome to tyranny. "May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
Quote from: Norseman on June 26, 2015, 05:32:59 PM
Having 2 or 3 wives is any sicker than 2 guys or girls going at it?
No.
Once you throw out the Divine "pump line" for life, everything becomes equally acceptable. It is only a matter of what is right in our own eyes. We are the ...... Master of our own fate.... the captain of our souls.
It really isn't the "freedom" they claim. It is ultimate bondage.
We have no idea what we have done when we toss God''s providential blessing overboard.
If government dictates WHOM a church may marry, they may deny tax exemption to those who do not, with a direct effect of stifling smaller organizations. This is a monstrous assault on freedom of religion, and deny the individual state's absolute right to have its say in the issue.
At risk of sounding like a deranged O/T rant here, or I'm making more of it than just coincidence, but two nights ago --- before SCOTUScare and Pervert Wedlock were handed down by the Supremely Ignorant --- I happened to watch a crime film featuring Barack Obama.
Well, clips of him as a Senator and Bush as President, with the usual Hollywood out-of-context quotes intended to buttress their story line for
Killing Them Softly (a remake of
The Friends of Eddie Coyle with touches of
Cogan's Trade). This time around it was Brad Pitt as killer Jackie Cogan, and while Obama is blathering on TV, after overseeing the deaths of four people, Jackie lets loose about America....
QuoteBarack Obama (on TV): ...to reclaim the American dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth, that, out of many, we are one...
Driver: You hear that line? Line's for you.
Jackie Cogan: Don't make me laugh. One people. It's a myth created by Thomas Jefferson.
Driver: Oh, so now you're going to have a go at Jefferson, huh?
Jackie Cogan: My friend, Thomas Jefferson is an American saint because he wrote the words 'All men are created equal', words he clearly didn't believe since he allowed his own children to live in slavery. He's a rich white snob who's sick of paying taxes to the Brits. So, yeah, he writes some lovely words and aroused the rabble and they went and died for those words while he sat back and drank his wine and ***ked his slave girl. This guy wants to tell me we're living in a community? Don't make me laugh. I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now ***kin' pay me.
That's the final lines in the film, the takeaway message they want you to think about on your way to anywhere else.
It's not a country, it's just a business.
So how much did the Supremes earn, to sell us out? How else could this have happened?
Quote from: quiller on June 27, 2015, 05:03:52 AM
If government dictates WHOM a church may marry, they may deny tax exemption to those who do not, with a direct effect of stifling smaller organizations. This is a monstrous assault on freedom of religion, and deny the individual state's absolute right to have its say in the issue.
At risk of sounding like a deranged O/T rant here, or I'm making more of it than just coincidence, but two nights ago --- before SCOTUScare and Pervert Wedlock were handed down by the Supremely Ignorant --- I happened to watch a crime film featuring Barack Obama.
Well, clips of him as a Senator and Bush as President, with the usual Hollywood out-of-context quotes intended to buttress their story line for Killing Them Softly (a remake of The Friends of Eddie Coyle with touches of Cogan's Trade).
This time around it was Brad Pitt as killer Jackie Cogan, and while Obama is blathering on TV, after overseeing the deaths of four people, Jackie lets loose about America....
That's the final lines in the film, the takeaway message they want you to think about on your way to anywhere else.
It's not a country, it's just a business.
So how much did the Supremes earn, to sell us out? How else could this have happened?
Nobody "sold us out" quiller, the 5 (sometimes 6) Liberals on the court really believe all the claptrap they are spewing. Therein lies the problem, as long as they are still Justices (or others like them) they will continue to apply laws that don't exist, find undefined written "rights" of
some individuals as well as the federal government in the Constitution, attempt to play the role of God in their rulings, allow the federal government to supersede any/all of the 50 individual States as well as select individuals or groups of individuals, and all while belittling the institutions which made this country work better than any ever has. In the name of equality or fairness, we are slowly but surely setting the stage to take away individual rights one by one or redefining words to accomplish goals which they could never gain directly by the ballot box.
Fellow Conservatives, this is the very reason (the appointments to the Supreme Court) we MUST band together to work hard and ensure a
Republican Conservative wins the next election or else we are doomed to see the further erosion of our society in ever increasing ways. Even a moderate Republican is better than another Liberal Democrat, (that term is becoming a redundancy in the USA) who will appoint more people like Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Kennedy, Kagan (and even sometimes Roberts) who will continue to dismantle the wonderful document created by our founding fathers known as our Constitution. Time is short if it has not already passed to stop this madness because when all is said and done, ultimate power in this country is in the hands of the SCOTUS
Quote from: MichaelJ on June 27, 2015, 06:44:37 AM
Nobody "sold us out" quiller, the 5 (sometimes 6) Liberals on the court really believe all the claptrap they are spewing. ( . . . )
Time is short if it has not already passed to stop this madness because when all is said and done, ultimate power in this country is in the hands of the SCOTUS
Sorry. The vote sold us out. Both issues were Constitutional excesses and affronts to us all. What you say thereafter merely reinforces the need to undo it.
So the Bushes gave us tragedy and Obama's handed us racial animosity. Even if the Republicans somehow do sell Rubio over Bush to an otherwise disenchanted voting public, what's to stop a second Kagan (and doubtlessly open-borders) liberal from TOTALLY shifting the Court? None of the RINOs would behave any differently, and would actively block another Scalia or Thomas.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.fotki.com%2F1_p%2Crswqbrrdfsdtdfwxbqfqsbrwqdbw%2Cvi%2Frtftwsbfxgtrbrdbg%2F1%2F1595431%2F10202399%2Facare_Poster_Paying_For_It_330-vi.jpg&hash=9743adc76965cadb4216b7481090eae79a4c77ae)
Quote from: quiller on June 27, 2015, 05:03:52 AM
If government dictates WHOM a church may marry, they may deny tax exemption to those who do not, with a direct effect of stifling smaller organizations. This is a monstrous assault on freedom of religion, and deny the individual state's absolute right to have its say in the issue.
Maybe it's time for churches to bypass the tax exemption anyway. Most churches I've ever been a part of didn't have anything to tax anyway. At least they could become political. I've been asking for decades, since Roe v Wade, where are our church leaders? If the churches in this country could form a unified front, we would have the largest activist political group in the country.
Thirty million evangelicals never vote. If they did, they could easily overwhelm the RINOs, both in the primary and in the general elections.
48% of Catholic voters voted to re-elect Obama - even after his ongoing war on Christianity in general, and Catholicism specifically, became obvious!
Do these churches never teach anything about stewardship? America's real problem is CINOs - CHRISTIANS In Name Only!
See "A Parable" at: http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1431361
Quote from: je_freedom on June 27, 2015, 10:06:06 AM
Thirty million evangelicals never vote. If they did, they could easily overwhelm the RINOs, both in the primary and in the general elections.
48% of Catholic voters voted to re-elect Obama - even after his ongoing war on Christianity in general, and Catholicism specifically, became obvious!
Do these churches never teach anything about stewardship? America's real problem is CINOs - CHRISTIANS In Name Only!
See "A Parable" at: http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1431361
IF votes are secret. How do they know the % that voted for what.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3F%26amp%3Bid%3DJN.0n2f3SO2Aj%2FPLBUoFDfDEw%26amp%3Bw%3D300%26amp%3Bh%3D300%26amp%3Bc%3D0%26amp%3Bpid%3D1.9%26amp%3Brs%3D0%26amp%3Bp%3D0&hash=0c3f1c193e489ef3b6f0fcf0a03b6973cd11f9e4)
Quote from: walkstall on June 27, 2015, 10:50:13 AM
IF votes are secret. How do they know the % that voted for what.
You still believe votes are secret? If that were true, how would Demorats know how much to cheat by? It would not surprise me in the least if Obozo's NSA knew how everyone had voted.
Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 10:58:42 AM
You still believe votes are secret? If that were true, how would Demorats know how much to cheat by? It would not surprise me in the least if Obozo's NSA knew how everyone had voted.
:lol: They don't, that's why sometimes there more people voting then there are people. Or why one precinct all voted for the same person.
Quote from: Dori on June 27, 2015, 08:27:51 AM
Maybe it's time for churches to bypass the tax exemption anyway. Most churches I've ever been a part of didn't have anything to tax anyway. At least they could become political. I've been asking for decades, since Roe v Wade, where are our church leaders? If the churches in this country could form a unified front, we would have the largest activist political group in the country.
Two points, Dori.
First, the tax exemption the churches are likely to lose has nothing to do with them paying taxes. It is about a tax exemption for those who give money to churches. Now, that money is tax deductible for the contributor..... not the church. Church assets are not involved. If they lose that status they will likely receive less contributions...... and possibly not be sustainable.
Second, you are absolutely correct about our churches not standing up for biblical teachings when it involves politics. Part of that is because some fear loss of charitable organization status. I think that fear is misplaced. They should fear God more than Caesar.
We have our National Independence from England largely because preachers across the colonies preached about our God given freedoms and the injustice of taxation without representation. They became known as the Black Robed Brigade. They caused men to rise up and resist the Crown and later join George Washington's Army.
Where is our Black Robed Brigade today? Hiding behind their pulpits!
Quote from: je_freedom on June 27, 2015, 10:06:06 AM
Thirty million evangelicals never vote. If they did, they could easily overwhelm the RINOs, both in the primary and in the general elections.
48% of Catholic voters voted to re-elect Obama - even after his ongoing war on Christianity in general, and Catholicism specifically, became obvious!
Do these churches never teach anything about stewardship? America's real problem is CINOs - CHRISTIANS In Name Only!
See "A Parable" at: http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1431361
Just like the Jewish vote in the US. They are liberals first.
Quote from: walkstall on June 27, 2015, 11:09:08 AM
:lol: They don't, that's why sometimes there more people voting then there are people. Or why one precinct all voted for the same person.
Yeah I heard about that one. They all voted for the Democrat - even the registered Republicans.
Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
Yeah I heard about that one. They all voted for the Democrat - even the registered Republicans.
Not just one but 59.... :ohmy:
QuoteAccording to preliminary results, Mitt Romney got absolutely no votes in 59 of Philadelphia's most heavily African-American precincts:
QuoteIt's one thing for a Democratic presidential candidate to dominate a Democratic city like Philadelphia, but check out this head-spinning figure: In 59 voting divisions in the city, Mitt Romney received not one vote. Zero. Zilch.
Quote from: GuyMontag on June 26, 2015, 09:02:51 PM
Daidalos - I want to live in a country where Christians (my entire extended family, by the way) can freely exercise their religion without persecution (They can, and we do. Gays marrying each other doesn't equate Persecution, if you think it does, then ya better NOT check out what ISIS does to Christians then. Your head might explode) - and yes, I'd be willing to fight and die for that cause. What's up next for Christianity is an existential threat that might not be an outright ban, but it's going to force the entire belief system onto the margins of society. (If you don't think that's just as bad, try being an open Neo-Nazi and holding down a decent job.)
Public opinion on homosexual marriage was trending toward the positive, but there was still hope that the pro-gay marriage and anti-gay marriage points of view could have existed side by side and learned to tolerate one another. This, as I said earlier, makes homosexual marriages a right alongside traditional marriages - which short-circuits the end result. Mainstream Christians that take their faith seriously aren't just going to kowtow to what's fast becoming the social norm. This new legal precedent doesn't bode well for them. If you don't think that denomination after denomination are going to get the absolute shit sued out of them for discrimination, watch. Churches are already being forced to marry homosexuals in England and Denmark. It can damn well happen here.
Losing their tax-exempt status is the worry right now...that may end up being the least of their worries around a decade after today.
First off, gays being able to marry, is NOT persecution. If you think it is you have zero clue what real persecution for the faith is.
Second, Christianity, as all religions should and is supposed to be on the margins already. We don't have state religions in the U.S.
Lastly, again, when government decided to take what for thousands of years had been a purely religious ceremony/function/contract/union etc...And made it an official government function. In absolute disregard for the separation of the Church and the State. Government also extended to those who marry certain rights, which for many many years now, have been denied to some in our society. And which to hear those who think this is persecution for Christ tell it, that's the way it still should be.
Those rights, should only be afforded to a select few, and only then, if they make a choice, which Christians themselves agree with.
Frankly, as a Bible Believing Christian myself, I"m sort of a little tired of seeing so called Christians who think that somehow the sin of homosexuality is the greatest evil of all time, (when the Bible clearly says it's not) who think and run around telling us all how homosexuals should be discriminated against, because they're engaging in "abomination to God" all the while ignoring the FACT that God expressly states many times over in the scripture that ALL sin is abomination to God. Not just that one. And who sit around, telling us that the scriptures, and our religious choice should also be political policy.
As if the Church, should also be the State.
Well sorry America isn't supposed to work that way. And Christians, should be the last people, to wish to deny rights and equality under the law to someone else. Frankly at this point, what we need to see, is not preachers, using the pulpit to push politics.
No what we need are ministers who aren't afraid to tell people that there's more to the Bible than just John 3:16. There's more to God and the Bible than just what makes ya "feel good". And that the principle of equality for all under the law, is also one which just happens to have originated with the God of the Bible. IE: For all have sinned and are fallen short of the glory of God. Sound familiar, it should, it's God telling us all, that not one of us is perfect, that we are all equal in Gods eyes.
And in the most bad of ways, we need ministers who are willing to stand up, and tell their own flocks, that church, is not and does not exist to function as a country club, or a rock concert/sunday morning entertainment. And lastly to put it bluntly, I'm personally about fed up with hearing about how gay's marrying is somehow a threat to the Christian religion/church.
When the fact of the matter is, A, there isn't a single lawsuit anyplace trying to force a church to marry anyone. There isn't a single case/lawsuit where a Church which won't do so, is being denied tax exemption status.
And the Bible itself, tells us, that the Church, has in it's past, and will again in it's future face real threats, as opposed to this made up, and self serving "threat" posed by gays marrying one another. ROFL.
Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
Yeah I heard about that one. They all voted for the Democrat - even the registered Republicans.
Have electronic voting machines at your polls? If the answer is yes, then they not only know who and or what was voted for, but exactly who cast what vote for whom and what.
In fact it's even been shown that the things can have the votes you cast on them, changed by someone else, from outside the booth, before you've even finished casting your votes on the ballot.
Electronic voting, is the worst thing to come along, since, well Christians decided that gays marrying one another is persecution of Gods people. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 10:58:42 AM
You still believe votes are secret? If that were true, how would Demorats know how much to cheat by? It would not surprise me in the least if Obozo's NSA knew how everyone had voted.
You've got that exactly right and what worries me is the next voting time around.
Quote from: keyboarder on June 27, 2015, 06:55:11 PM
You've got that exactly right and what worries me is the next voting time around.
Key I was too, so now I am a poll worker :) You should volunteer and do it too sometimes. In fact I think everyone should volunteer to work the polls at least once in their life.
I know for me, it was a real eye opener. I mean it was shocking to see, how much power two, and only those two, political power the DNC and GOP wield.
Quote from: daidalos on June 27, 2015, 06:47:42 PM
First off, gays being able to marry, is NOT persecution. If you think it is you have zero clue what real persecution for the faith is.
Second, Christianity, as all religions should and is supposed to be on the margins already. We don't have state religions in the U.S.
Lastly, again, when government decided to take what for thousands of years had been a purely religious ceremony/function/contract/union etc...And made it an official government function. In absolute disregard for the separation of the Church and the State. Government also extended to those who marry certain rights, which for many many years now, have been denied to some in our society. And which to hear those who think this is persecution for Christ tell it, that's the way it still should be.
Those rights, should only be afforded to a select few, and only then, if they make a choice, which Christians themselves agree with.
Frankly, as a Bible Believing Christian myself, I"m sort of a little tired of seeing so called Christians who think that somehow the sin of homosexuality is the greatest evil of all time, (when the Bible clearly says it's not) who think and run around telling us all how homosexuals should be discriminated against, because they're engaging in "abomination to God" all the while ignoring the FACT that God expressly states many times over in the scripture that ALL sin is abomination to God. Not just that one. And who sit around, telling us that the scriptures, and our religious choice should also be political policy.
As if the Church, should also be the State.
Well sorry America isn't supposed to work that way. And Christians, should be the last people, to wish to deny rights and equality under the law to someone else. Frankly at this point, what we need to see, is not preachers, using the pulpit to push politics.
No what we need are ministers who aren't afraid to tell people that there's more to the Bible than just John 3:16. There's more to God and the Bible than just what makes ya "feel good". And that the principle of equality for all under the law, is also one which just happens to have originated with the God of the Bible. IE: For all have sinned and are fallen short of the glory of God. Sound familiar, it should, it's God telling us all, that not one of us is perfect, that we are all equal in Gods eyes.
And in the most bad of ways, we need ministers who are willing to stand up, and tell their own flocks, that church, is not and does not exist to function as a country club, or a rock concert/sunday morning entertainment. And lastly to put it bluntly, I'm personally about fed up with hearing about how gay's marrying is somehow a threat to the Christian religion/church.
When the fact of the matter is, A, there isn't a single lawsuit anyplace trying to force a church to marry anyone. There isn't a single case/lawsuit where a Church which won't do so, is being denied tax exemption status.
And the Bible itself, tells us, that the Church, has in it's past, and will again in it's future face real threats, as opposed to this made up, and self serving "threat" posed by gays marrying one another. ROFL.
So... does God owe an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah?
Quote from: daidalos on June 27, 2015, 06:47:42 PM
First off, gays being able to marry, is NOT persecution. If you think it is you have zero clue what real persecution for the faith is.
Second, Christianity, as all religions should and is supposed to be on the margins already. We don't have state religions in the U.S.
Lastly, again, when government decided to take what for thousands of years had been a purely religious ceremony/function/contract/union etc...And made it an official government function. In absolute disregard for the separation of the Church and the State. Government also extended to those who marry certain rights, which for many many years now, have been denied to some in our society. And which to hear those who think this is persecution for Christ tell it, that's the way it still should be.
Those rights, should only be afforded to a select few, and only then, if they make a choice, which Christians themselves agree with.
Frankly, as a Bible Believing Christian myself, I"m sort of a little tired of seeing so called Christians who think that somehow the sin of homosexuality is the greatest evil of all time, (when the Bible clearly says it's not) who think and run around telling us all how homosexuals should be discriminated against, because they're engaging in "abomination to God" all the while ignoring the FACT that God expressly states many times over in the scripture that ALL sin is abomination to God. Not just that one. And who sit around, telling us that the scriptures, and our religious choice should also be political policy.
As if the Church, should also be the State.
Well sorry America isn't supposed to work that way. And Christians, should be the last people, to wish to deny rights and equality under the law to someone else. Frankly at this point, what we need to see, is not preachers, using the pulpit to push politics.
No what we need are ministers who aren't afraid to tell people that there's more to the Bible than just John 3:16. There's more to God and the Bible than just what makes ya "feel good". And that the principle of equality for all under the law, is also one which just happens to have originated with the God of the Bible. IE: For all have sinned and are fallen short of the glory of God. Sound familiar, it should, it's God telling us all, that not one of us is perfect, that we are all equal in Gods eyes.
And in the most bad of ways, we need ministers who are willing to stand up, and tell their own flocks, that church, is not and does not exist to function as a country club, or a rock concert/sunday morning entertainment. And lastly to put it bluntly, I'm personally about fed up with hearing about how gay's marrying is somehow a threat to the Christian religion/church.
When the fact of the matter is, A, there isn't a single lawsuit anyplace trying to force a church to marry anyone. There isn't a single case/lawsuit where a Church which won't do so, is being denied tax exemption status.
And the Bible itself, tells us, that the Church, has in it's past, and will again in it's future face real threats, as opposed to this made up, and self serving "threat" posed by gays marrying one another. ROFL.
Can you tell me WHAT right Homosexuals are being denied by Christians? I'm sure you mean we need to accept the Secular State's REDEFINITION of the word "marriage."
Sorry, they have the right to marry -- anyone of the OPPOSITE sex since THAT is the definition of marriage. But as a "Bible believing Christian", you already know your Lord & Saviour already defined marriage for us. It ain't what the Supremes have declared it to be.
"When the fact of the matter is, A, there isn't a single lawsuit anyplace trying to force a church to marry anyone. There isn't a single case/lawsuit where a Church which won't do so, is being denied tax exemption status."
Your "faith" in the LBGT movement is naive and absolutely breathtaking. I have already seen posts from leaders of that movement that Pastors must be made to enforce the new law
Quote from: je_freedom on June 26, 2015, 08:04:29 AM
Leftists always say, "We're just asking for this one modest change." It's always a lie. Every demand the left makes is to position themselves to make their next demand.
"Gay marriage" is just one step of the leftists' agenda. Once that gets established nationwide, the next argument will be for "equal adoption rights." "Don't discriminate against same sex couples when adopting out children" will be the argument.
This is, of course, a bad idea. Libraries full of studies show that children grow up into emotionally healthy adults most reliably when they have a mother and a father in the home.
This coming campaign for "non-discrimination" will put adults' pleasure ahead of children's health.
Why would leftists want to do this?
It's part of a larger war against the family.
Leftists worship government. Leftists see every other institution of society (family, church, business, etc.) as a competitor for power and influence. Leftists want ALL of everyone's allegiance to be to the government. Remember the theme of the Democrats' 2012 Convention: "Government is the one thing we all belong to."
They've propagandized and legislated the church into irrelevance. (Senator Lyndon Johnson (D-TX) sponsored the IRS Act of 1954, which, in violation of the First Amendment, forbids churches from criticizing public policy. It says that churches must stop saying what the Bible says about an issue whenever the politicians have decided to disregard the Bible and the historic lessons it contains.)
Their war on business is obvious. Taxes and regulations already heavily hinder business. Their ultimate goal is to nationalize all industry. No free enterprise. (At least none of any significance. They might allow some small shops to exist, to draw attention away from the fact that they've seized all the industries of any importance.)
Their war on the family has been going on for decades. "Sexual freedom" has spawned millions of babies to unwed mothers, who depend on government for everything. The drug culture promoted by the media destroys the home life of many of those babies, giving the government an excuse to take custody of the babies.
And now, adoption by same sex couples will divert many of those babies from being adopted into traditional families, with their centuries-long allegiances, and into same sex "families" who already tend to look to government for everything.
The leftists' goal is to erode every institution of society other than government into irrelevance, and ultimately, out of existence.
For some of our newer folks here I'll say this again.
Getting the Supreme Court to declare homosexual marriage to be a "right" has nothing to do with "who you love". It has everything to do with destroying traditional Christianity.
Now, every Christian Church who fails to perform a homosexual marriage will be sued into oblivion! The ones who don't will so water down their dogma as to be impotent.
This has
always been the end game of the Statists - destroy the churches!
I do think they have over-extended their reach on this one though. Though I haven't identify as one for quite sometime, Christians are a resielent, and dedicated lot. At times they can seem to be wishy-washy, be cause they believe in the "Turn the other cheek", thing. But, they only turn that cheek so many times. There comes a time when every Christian will draw a line in the sand and say - "No More!"
Remember, Christians as a group, survived being fed to the lions by the Romans and the excesses of Caligula's reign of terror. They've withstood the oppressions of the Communist scourge of the 20th Century in places like the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam and Red China.
When secular oppression is at its worst, Christianity is at its best.
It's not over yet! Not by a long shot!
Quote from: MichaelJ on June 28, 2015, 07:31:26 AM
"When the fact of the matter is, A, there isn't a single lawsuit anyplace trying to force a church to marry anyone. There isn't a single case/lawsuit where a Church which won't do so, is being denied tax exemption status."
Your "faith" in the LBGT movement is naive and absolutely breathtaking. I have already seen posts from leaders of that movement that Pastors must be made to enforce the new law
Not true, there is now a lawsuit overseas. IF they win it will be the same in the U.S. in no time.
Quote
1 Aug 2013 Gay couple to sue church over gay marriage opt-out
http://www.christian.org.uk/news/gay-couple-to-sue-church-over-gay-marriage-opt-out/
http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Gay-dads-set-sue-church-sex-marriage-opt/story-19597954-detail/story.html
Quote from: daidalos on June 27, 2015, 06:47:42 PM
First off, gays being able to marry, is NOT persecution. If you think it is you have zero clue what real persecution for the faith is.
No, but the Federal Government enforcing that "right" will be.
QuoteSecond, Christianity, as all religions should and is supposed to be on the margins already. We don't have state religions in the U.S.
The Federal Government cannot establish a religion, true, but neither can it deny the practice of religion. The individual states can (and several have had in the past) official state religions. Since the 1st Amendment's "Establishment Clause" specifically mentions Congress (and only Congress) this does not violate the Constitution.
QuoteLastly, again, when government decided to take what for thousands of years had been a purely religious ceremony/function/contract/union etc...And made it an official government function. In absolute disregard for the separation of the Church and the State. Government also extended to those who marry certain rights, which for many many years now, have been denied to some in our society. And which to hear those who think this is persecution for Christ tell it, that's the way it still should be.
The so-called "Separation of Church and State" is a myth. You will not find that phrase in any of our founding documents. In reality, the concept has been turned on its head. Our founders weren't so much concerned with religion interfering with the State but, rather, they were deathly afraid of the State interfering with religion!
QuoteThose rights, should only be afforded to a select few, and only then, if they make a choice, which Christians themselves agree with.
If "rights" are doled out by the Government, then they are not, as the Declaration of Independence claimed - unalienable. Rights come from God, not from the State. The reason for this is simple. What the State gives, the State can just as easily take away.
For the record - there is no "right" to marry - for anyone!
QuoteFrankly, as a Bible Believing Christian myself, I"m sort of a little tired of seeing so called Christians who think that somehow the sin of homosexuality is the greatest evil of all time, (when the Bible clearly says it's not) who think and run around telling us all how homosexuals should be discriminated against, because they're engaging in "abomination to God" all the while ignoring the FACT that God expressly states many times over in the scripture that ALL sin is abomination to God. Not just that one. And who sit around, telling us that the scriptures, and our religious choice should also be political policy.
What part of "abomination" don't you understand?
:rolleyes:
QuoteAs if the Church, should also be the State.
Ever heard of The Church of England?
QuoteWell sorry America isn't supposed to work that way. And Christians, should be the last people, to wish to deny rights and equality under the law to someone else. Frankly at this point, what we need to see, is not preachers, using the pulpit to push politics.
Okay, let's get this rights and equality bullshit out of the way.
As I've already proved, there is no such thing as a "Right to Marry" - marriage can be denied to people for a plethora of reasons - a father can't marry his daughter, a mother can't marry her son, a brother can't marry his sister, and in most states except West Virginia, 1st cousins aren't allowed to marry. Remember, a "Right" can't be infringed on or denied by the State.
So, marriage is NOT a right.
Now, as to the so-called equality part of the equation. Marriage as defined by the State, has nothing to do with "who one loves". That doesn't even enter into the equation.
As a heterosexual male, I can only marry one woman (at a time)
A homosexual male, can only marry one woman (at a time)
As a hetero sexual male, I can not marry another male.
A homosexual male can not marry another male.
That, my friend, is the very definition of "equality".
QuoteNo what we need are ministers who aren't afraid to tell people that there's more to the Bible than just John 3:16. There's more to God and the Bible than just what makes ya "feel good". And that the principle of equality for all under the law, is also one which just happens to have originated with the God of the Bible. IE: For all have sinned and are fallen short of the glory of God. Sound familiar, it should, it's God telling us all, that not one of us is perfect, that we are all equal in Gods eyes.
And, yet, you ignore the fact that Christians (and Jews) opposition to Homosexual Marriage
is based on that very same Bible!QuoteAnd in the most bad of ways, we need ministers who are willing to stand up, and tell their own flocks, that church, is not and does not exist to function as a country club, or a rock concert/sunday morning entertainment. And lastly to put it bluntly, I'm personally about fed up with hearing about how gay's marrying is somehow a threat to the Christian religion/church.
When the fact of the matter is, A, there isn't a single lawsuit anyplace trying to force a church to marry anyone. There isn't a single case/lawsuit where a Church which won't do so, is being denied tax exemption status.
Yet...
QuoteAnd the Bible itself, tells us, that the Church, has in it's past, and will again in it's future face real threats, as opposed to this made up, and self serving "threat" posed by gays marrying one another. ROFL.
Most Germans didn't think their country was facing a crisis as the NAZIs rose to power. After all, they weren't Jews and Chancellor Hitler made the trains run on time. What's not to love?
People are talking about voting for gay rights..................
In this liberal hole the judge voted for us.
Quote from: kroz on June 28, 2015, 04:43:26 AM
So... does God owe an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah?
No more so than the Hittites, or Egyptians, or the city of Tyre whom he also wiped out, for turning their backs on God and sin.
Quote from: daidalos on June 28, 2015, 12:17:46 PM
No more so than the Hittites, or Egyptians, or the city of Tyre whom he also wiped out, for turning their backs on God and sin.
BUT.... Sodom and Gomorrah were only cited for the sin of homosexuality.
If all sin are equal to God He would have destroyed every city and hamlet. Homosexuality is particularly abominable to God because it attempts to circumvent His plan for man. Marriage was established for the purpose of healthy procreation. It provides the optimal environment for raising children. There is a scriptural structure to every marriage according to God's design. Homosexuality is a direct affront to God's sovereign plan for His creation. That is why it is frequently called an abomination!
Quote from: darroll on June 28, 2015, 10:45:13 AM
People are talking about voting for gay rights..................
In this liberal hole the judge voted for us.
They didn't vote for, neither did the Supremes IMPOSE upon us, "rights." They imposed a new definition of marriage.
I'm also tired of hearing that Homo Marriage has been "legalized." It has not. They've always been free to find a lesbian "preacher" (yeah they exist), who would perform a ceremony and declare them "married."
This is about the State changing the definition of a ceremony and RECOGNIZING their status as "married." But it hasn't been ILLEGAL as most libtards want you to believe. It's about GODvernment RECOGNITION.
Quote from: carlb on June 28, 2015, 07:26:25 AM
Can you tell me WHAT right Homosexuals are being denied by Christians? I'm sure you mean we need to accept the Secular State's REDEFINITION of the word "marriage."
Sorry, they have the right to marry -- anyone of the OPPOSITE sex since THAT is the definition of marriage. But as a "Bible believing Christian", you already know your Lord & Saviour already defined marriage for us. It ain't what the Supremes have declared it to be.
Actually yes, we are supposed to accept that precisely that. As I have pointed out for days now, no one twisted the arm of the Congress to meddle in a religious institution. In violation of the first amendment. However since Congress did though, and since the Congress decided that not only should certain rights, such as the right of inheritance etc...and then further decided that certain tax laws will apply to those who enter into that union.
Congress opened the door to the 14th amendment, and precisely why we have the ruling we have today. As for insisting that since the Lord, God of Abraham Issac and Jacob says a marriage is between a man and a woman, that same Bible says, a woman on her menstrus can't live in the same house as her husband. That same Bible says that a child who backtalks their parents, is to be stoned to death.
That same Bible says, telling a lie, is as bad in God's eyes, as rape or murder. Should we enact those as law as well?
What about the texts of other "religions"?
I would point out, that the same exact standard could be applied/enacted/done with Islam for example.
And give us Sharia law, and Sharia courts instead of our traditional Representative Constitutional Republic, where the rule of law, and not this or that particular church doctrine is the paramount law of the land.
This is why it's a real, and very big issue, when the Government violates the first prohibition imposed upon it by the Constitution which enumerates what we call "separation of church and state".
Quote from: Darth Fife on June 28, 2015, 07:47:57 AM
For some of our newer folks here I'll say this again.
Getting the Supreme Court to declare homosexual marriage to be a "right" has nothing to do with "who you love". It has everything to do with destroying traditional Christianity.
Now, every Christian Church who fails to perform a homosexual marriage will be sued into oblivion! The ones who don't will so water down their dogma as to be impotent.
This has always been the end game of the Statists - destroy the churches!
I do think they have over-extended their reach on this one though. Though I haven't identify as one for quite sometime, Christians are a resielent, and dedicated lot. At times they can seem to be wishy-washy, be cause they believe in the "Turn the other cheek", thing. But, they only turn that cheek so many times. There comes a time when every Christian will draw a line in the sand and say - "No More!"
Remember, Christians as a group, survived being fed to the lions by the Romans and the excesses of Caligula's reign of terror. They've withstood the oppressions of the Communist scourge of the 20th Century in places like the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam and Red China.
When secular oppression is at its worst, Christianity is at its best.
It's not over yet! Not by a long shot!
Rubbish, utter pure rubbish, here's why.
1: God has already said his Church is eternal.
2: God's word, makes no distinction at all, between the sin of being gay, and the sin of telling a white lie, or the sin of stealing an ink pen from the office.
3: Gay marriage, simply isn't the way, God tells us his church will be persecuted. Really if you who claim Christ want the nation to enact laws, based upon what the Bible says.
Then at least, please be honest about what the Bible actually says. And spare us all, these nonsensical, emotionally driven, bogus arguments. Like this one, that gay marriage is an "attack on Christianity" or somehow a real "threat" to "Gods people" as for example Huckabee has been out there spouting off about. Bluntly put, not only is it a lie, (and thus a sin itself) to make these claims.
But, such emotionally driven, illogical, self serving arguments as those, make those who are supposedly conservative.
Sound like the Clintons, and Obama's we all dislike politically so much.
Quote from: daidalos on June 28, 2015, 08:46:41 PM
Rubbish, utter pure rubbish, here's why.
1: God has already said his Church is eternal.
2: God's word, makes no distinction at all, between the sin of being gay, and the sin of telling a white lie, or the sin of stealing an ink pen from the office.
3: Gay marriage, simply isn't the way, God tells us his church will be persecuted. Really if you who claim Christ want the nation to enact laws, based upon what the Bible says.
Then at least, please be honest about what the Bible actually says. And spare us all, these nonsensical, emotionally driven, bogus arguments. Like this one, that gay marriage is an "attack on Christianity" or somehow a real "threat" to "Gods people" as for example Huckabee has been out there spouting off about. Bluntly put, not only is it a lie, (and thus a sin itself) to make these claims.
But, such emotionally driven, illogical, self serving arguments as those, make those who are supposedly conservative.
Sound like the Clintons, and Obama's we all dislike politically so much.
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Yes, the Church is eternal. It was eternal even as the Roman were feeding Christian to the lions in the Coliseum!
I'm talking about the ability of Christians to practice their faith freely, without fear, and to act on their beliefs and be an effective force for good in this country.
The aim of the Gay Agenda is to destroy the political viability of organized Christianity. It is a puppet of the Marxists.
If Gays voted in large numbers for Republicans, homosexuality would still be classified as a mental illness, and anyone who brought up the topic of "gay rights" would be ridiculed mercilessly by the Liberal media, the Entertainment Industry and the Democrats.
Every Marxist revolution has been accompanied by an undermining of traditional Christianity.
The Church is eternal. The nation which protects the rights of the members of the Church has no such guarantee.
Quote from: kroz on June 28, 2015, 12:30:21 PM
BUT.... Sodom and Gomorrah were only cited for the sin of homosexuality.
If all sin are equal to God He would have destroyed every city and hamlet. Homosexuality is particularly abominable to God because it attempts to circumvent His plan for man. Marriage was established for the purpose of healthy procreation. It provides the optimal environment for raising children. There is a scriptural structure to every marriage according to God's design. Homosexuality is a direct affront to God's sovereign plan for His creation. That is why it is frequently called an abomination!
https://www.foundersfcu.com/home.aspx
Without going into further detail, you have got the exact take on what homosexuality is. God is no liar and we have allowed ourselves to be put in this situation by our failure to suppress this terrible event. There will be terrible consequences for all of us thanx to the evil administration we are under. God hates all sin but sexual sins are particularly hated by him and for the reasons you cited.
I often hear people who say Christians are too judgemental, relate the story where Jesus is talking about the woman adulterer and he told the mob "he who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone" so therefore we are not to judge. HOWEVER they choose to overlook the finish of the story where Jesus says "neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more". That is telling us that everyone sins, and can be forgiven, but if you continue to practice that sin, without repentance (changing), then you will be condemned. Is it not our duty as Christians to point this out in hopes they will repent and change their sinful ways? If you continue to willfully practice a sin, then you must repent and change or else you have no real interest in salvation
Quote from: kroz on June 28, 2015, 12:30:21 PM
BUT.... Sodom and Gomorrah were only cited for the sin of homosexuality.
If all sin are equal to God He would have destroyed every city and hamlet. Homosexuality is particularly abominable to God because it attempts to circumvent His plan for man. Marriage was established for the purpose of healthy procreation. It provides the optimal environment for raising children. There is a scriptural structure to every marriage according to God's design. Homosexuality is a direct affront to God's sovereign plan for His creation. That is why it is frequently called an abomination!
Not true, Tyr had the same things going on. And for the record it's not me that says all sin is abomination to God, God does. There's only one sin the Bible ever says is worse, and well homosexuality is NOT the sin of blasphemy against the Holy spirit.
Which is what our God, the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, says is the only unforgivable sin. Citing some biblical belief that this group is living in sin, and that as such they get what they get.
Is no more appropriate or proper under American law, than the imposition of a sharia law court would be.
That's the thing the rightists apparently don't understand.
As exemplified by George Will on FOX sunday morning, when he said, "Conservatives should be careful what they ask for, they might get it".
Whether we personally believe the religions teachings or not, is irrelevant to the ruling, or the case that gave us the ruling.
The fact of the matter is, we are legislating behavior, (if conservatives have their way) based upon what a religion (albeit the right one) says. And by doing that, we also risk, seeing legislation which says for example Sharia courts are just alight and A-ok.
Oh yeah we really need to see that going on in America. NOT.
This is why keeping government out of marriage to start with, as the separation of Church and State as enumerated by our Constitution, says things should be, is the better idea.
To not do so, risks and invites things like Sharia Courts.
I hope that exemplifies to some, why, and how, extremely bad an idea it is, to impose legal/legislative "norms of behavior" based upon a religious doctrine.
Even though we may personally feel it's the right one. In this case, based upon our own faith. Doing that, like it or not opens the door, to having later on, things like Sharia Courts being imposed and legally justifiable because well we already legislate another religions teachings as law, why not that one too? Getting the point yet Mike Huckabee? Getting the point yet, Scott Walker?
Getting the point yet, all my fellow Conservatives, who have this past week been gnashing their teeth together singing "oh woe is me, I"m so persecuted because some gays want to get married". :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote from: daidalos on June 29, 2015, 04:44:22 AM
Not true, Tyr had the same things going on. And for the record it's not me that says all sin is abomination to God, God does. There's only one sin the Bible ever says is worse, and well homosexuality is NOT the sin of blasphemy against the Holy spirit.
Which is what our God, the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, says is the only unforgivable sin. Citing some biblical belief that this group is living in sin, and that as such they get what they get.
Is no more appropriate or proper under American law, than the imposition of a sharia law court would be.
That's the thing the rightists apparently don't understand.
As exemplified by George Will on FOX sunday morning, when he said, "Conservatives should be careful what they ask for, they might get it".
Whether we personally believe the religions teachings or not, is irrelevant to the ruling, or the case that gave us the ruling.
The fact of the matter is, we are legislating behavior, (if conservatives have their way) based upon what a religion (albeit the right one) says. And by doing that, we also risk, seeing legislation which says for example Sharia courts are just alight and A-ok.
Oh yeah we really need to see that going on in America. NOT.
This is why keeping government out of marriage to start with, as the separation of Church and State as enumerated by our Constitution, says things should be, is the better idea.
To not do so, risks and invites things like Sharia Courts.
I hope that exemplifies to some, why, and how, extremely bad an idea it is, to impose legal/legislative "norms of behavior" based upon a religious doctrine.
Even though we may personally feel it's the right one. In this case, based upon our own faith. Doing that, like it or not opens the door, to having later on, things like Sharia Courts being imposed and legally justifiable because well we already legislate another religions teachings as law, why not that one too? Getting the point yet Mike Huckabee? Getting the point yet, Scott Walker?
Getting the point yet, all my fellow Conservatives, who have this past week been gnashing their teeth together singing "oh woe is me, I"m so persecuted because some gays want to get married". :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wrong. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is called the unpardonable sin because it is a rejecting of the Holy Spirit...which is the salvation experience. There is nothing else that can save your soul. Therefore it is unpardonable. It is the seal of the Holy Spirit that links us to God eternally.
Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not a casual curse word. It is a life decision.
Even homosexuality can be forgiven if we turn from our sin and receive the Holy Spirit.
This Nation was established by Christians and our laws are unquestionably founded upon the mosaic laws..... not all but those which are reaffirmed in the NEW COVENANT or New Testament by Jesus Himself.
It was never intended to be a theocracy but a free Country in the pattern of God's teachings. Those who immigrated here were expected to accept those conditions under which to live.
Political correctness was designed to change all of that! PC became "King" of the land. That gave godlessness the toe hold needed to degrade and destroy the fiber of our culture and laws. Sharia law is a red herring to your argument. It legally is irrelevant ...... unless your embrace PC.
Quote from: kroz on June 29, 2015, 05:24:40 AM
Wrong. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is called the unpardonable sin because it is a rejecting of the Holy Spirit...which is the salvation experience. There is nothing else that can save your soul. Therefore it is unpardonable. It is the seal of the Holy Spirit that links us to God eternally.
Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not a casual curse word. It is a life decision.
Even homosexuality can be forgiven if we turn from our sin and receive the Holy Spirit.
This Nation was established by Christians and our laws are unquestionably founded upon the mosaic laws..... not all but those which are reaffirmed in the NEW COVENANT or New Testament by Jesus Himself.
It was never intended to be a theocracy but a free Country in the pattern of God's teachings. Those who immigrated here were expected to accept those conditions under which to live.
Political correctness was designed to change all of that! PC became "King" of the land. That gave godlessness the toe hold needed to degrade and destroy the fiber of our culture and laws. Sharia law is a red herring to your argument. It legally is irrelevant ...... unless your embrace PC.
Right again, Kroz
Notice that when anyone shows Daidalos to be wrong he ignores the post and goes to another thread to spread his narrow knowledge of scriptures ripped from context and used for his agenda! He rambles and has just enough knowledge to be dangerous to the truth of God's Word.
Context is king. All Scripture is true IF interpreted in the context of which it was written. Daidalos ignores that because it doesn't fit his agenda.
Allow me to point out the 300 lb gorilla in the middle of the room.
Quite apart from any religious prohibition against homosexuality, there is a practical one.
Homosexual "sex" (both "gay" and lesbian) is a group of dangerous, unhealthy, unhygienic group of perverted acts that often have physical and mental complications associated with it. The people who engage in it are sick, and need help. They don't need to have their "lifestyle", tolerated, celebrated, or codified by the Supreme Court of the United States!
It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual (GLB) relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the U.S. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.
http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/mental-health/ (http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/mental-health/)
http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/physical-health/
(http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/physical-health/)
And, before some liberal troll jumps in here and say, "homosexuality is natural because it has been observed in non-human species", all I have to say is, several non-human species cannibalize their young, but I don't think we need to be doing that, either!
I say who gives a fuck, I would say I am a slight homophobe, if I see two guys kissing or hold hands it weirds me out. I always wondered why any straight man would be worried about what a man does. why would you be concerned about what another man does? I say let them get married and comeout without shame, because if you shame them and they hide it, you never know if you were hanging around some dude that is gay and hiding it. and what happens you get dudes like lindsey graham were you think they might be gay but your not sure.
Then next you know you find out there gay and they have been checking you out the whole time.
Oh yeah when it comes to lesbians, the man ones weird me out to, but if there hot i am down for it, I got to say if you are not for hot lesbians your probably gay.
Quote from: liberalman on June 30, 2015, 11:45:08 PM
I say who gives a fuck, I would say I am a slight homophobe, if I see two guys kissing or hold hands it weirds me out. I always wondered why any straight man would be worried about what a man does. why would you be concerned about what another man does? I say let them get married and comeout without shame, because if you shame them and they hide it, you never know if you were hanging around some dude that is gay and hiding it. and what happens you get dudes like lindsey graham were you think they might be gay but your not sure.
Then next you know you find out there gay and they have been checking you out the whole time.
More likely they have been "checking out" 12 year old little boys like you!
Quote from: liberalman on June 30, 2015, 11:50:31 PM
Oh yeah when it comes to lesbians, the man ones weird me out to, but if there hot i am down for it, I got to say if you are not for hot lesbians your probably gay.
I'm sure the left has to have a name for that. I think it's called misogyny.
Quote from: liberalman on June 30, 2015, 11:50:31 PM
Oh yeah when it comes to lesbians, the man ones weird me out to, but if there hot i am down for it, I got to say if you are not for hot lesbians your probably gay.
Your language is terrible and your attitude leaves us wondering which way your "door" swings. We condone neither here, so wise up while you can on this forum. Your posts are not unlike some we could find on one of the liberal forums if we wanted to go there.
Quote from: keyboarder on July 01, 2015, 09:17:34 AM
Your language is terrible and your attitude leaves us wondering which way your "door" swings. We condone neither here, so wise up while you can on this forum. Your posts are not unlike some we could find on one of the liberal forums if we wanted to go there.
Yeah. Crudely immature.
Quote from: Dori on July 01, 2015, 09:10:48 AM
I'm sure the left has to have a name for that. I think it's called misogyny.
He says it's hot to watch lesbians and less so for the males, which strongly suggests that with his utter lack of language skills combined with
ALLLLLLL that Internet research at porn-sites, we may safely assume his experience with ANYTHING he did not have to inflate was marginal at best, and probably second-hand.
Franklin Graham warns that America will not like what is at the end of this Rainbow!
Franklin Graham's word is respected worldwide, through his work with Samaritan's Purse and the organization his father founded, the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, and now he's begun warning America of God's looming judgment.
Because of the nation's adoption, through its Supreme Court, of mandatory recognition of same-sex marriage across the states.
"Our nation will not like what's at the end of this rainbow," he wrote this week.
"'Pride goeth before a fall.' Supreme Court Justice [Antonin] Scalia used Proverbs 16:18 in his comments regarding the court's disappointing and dangerous ruling about same-sex marriage," Graham wrote. "He rightly called the decision 'a threat to the American democracy.' This is so true. Arrogantly disregarding God's authority always has serious consequences."
Graham has millions following his comments and routinely gets hundreds of thousands of "likes" and tens of thousands of "shares" for his postings.
He has commented several times on the court's ruling Friday, which immediately generated forecasts of persecution coming in America to citizens whose beliefs disallow homosexuality.
His comments included a blast at President Obama.
"The president had the White House lit up in rainbow colors to celebrate the Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage. This is outrageous – a real slap in the face to the millions of Americans who do not support same-sex marriage and whose voice is being ignored.
"God is the one who gave the rainbow, and it was associated with His judgment. God sent a flood to wipe out the entire world because mankind had become so wicked and violent," he wrote.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/franklin-graham-gay-rainbow-ends-badly/#OsSPdv00SQeIPhv7.99
Quote from: kroz on June 29, 2015, 05:24:40 AM
Wrong. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is called the unpardonable sin because it is a rejecting of the Holy Spirit...which is the salvation experience. There is nothing else that can save your soul. Therefore it is unpardonable. It is the seal of the Holy Spirit that links us to God eternally.
Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not a casual curse word. It is a life decision.
Even homosexuality can be forgiven if we turn from our sin and receive the Holy Spirit.
This Nation was established by Christians and our laws are unquestionably founded upon the mosaic laws..... not all but those which are reaffirmed in the NEW COVENANT or New Testament by Jesus Himself.
It was never intended to be a theocracy but a free Country in the pattern of God's teachings. Those who immigrated here were expected to accept those conditions under which to live.
Political correctness was designed to change all of that! PC became "King" of the land. That gave godlessness the toe hold needed to degrade and destroy the fiber of our culture and laws. Sharia law is a red herring to your argument. It legally is irrelevant ...... unless your embrace PC.
Christ himself never condemned the sexually immoral, he did however condemn the religious leaders of his day.
Here see:
http://billygraham.org/story/billy-grahams-answer-what-is-sin-are-all-sins-equal-in-gods-eyes/ oh and while homosexuality did go in in Soddom and Gomorrah, God destroyed those cities for other reasons as well. It wasn't just because the gays were there. As some would have us believe.
Quote from: kroz on June 30, 2015, 06:01:14 AM
Notice that when anyone shows Daidalos to be wrong he ignores the post and goes to another thread to spread his narrow knowledge of scriptures ripped from context and used for his agenda! He rambles and has just enough knowledge to be dangerous to the truth of God's Word.
Context is king. All Scripture is true IF interpreted in the context of which it was written. Daidalos ignores that because it doesn't fit his agenda.
You didn't show me to be wrong. In fact you confirmed exactly what I was saying. There is only one sin that is worse than another, and that is blasphemy of the holy ghost.
Not homosexuality. As some (on the right) would have us believe.
But thanks for affirming exactly what I was saying. Hahahaha
What does the Bible say is the "wages" of sin?
You are EXCUSING the sin of homosexuality by pointing to other sins. It does NOT justify government ENDORSEMENT of homo marriage. It's an ABOMINATION before God no matter how hard you work to justify sin.
This seems to be a very personal issue to you. I e seen it before. Are you "gay"?
Quote from: daidalos on July 02, 2015, 03:11:57 AM
You didn't show me to be wrong. In fact you confirmed exactly what I was saying. There is only one sin that is worse than another, and that is blasphemy of the holy ghost.
Not homosexuality. As some (on the right) would have us believe.
But thanks for affirming exactly what I was saying. Hahahaha
According to a recent AP-GFK poll, support for gay marriage among U.S. citizens has dropped six percentage points since their last poll in April, with more Americans disapproving of the Supreme Court ruling making gay marriage the law of the land than those approving it.
Rather than galvanizing Americans into a unified body, the Obergefell decision has left U.S. citizens more divided than ever on the question of gay marriage, after the court itself showed a deep divide on the issue. In an unprecedented move, the four opposing justices each published an independent dissent, leaving a mine of legal reasoning contrary to the majority opinion.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/19/poll-support-for-gay-marriage-has-fallen-after-obergefell/
How fickle we are as a Nation.
The real shocker is only 56% of the people thought religious freedom should be protected! WHAT!! :scared:
Quote from: kroz on June 27, 2015, 11:43:41 AM
Two points, Dori.
First, the tax exemption the churches are likely to lose has nothing to do with them paying taxes. It is about a tax exemption for those who give money to churches. Now, that money is tax deductible for the contributor..... not the church. Church assets are not involved. If they lose that status they will likely receive less contributions...... and possibly not be sustainable.
Second, you are absolutely correct about our churches not standing up for biblical teachings when it involves politics. Part of that is because some fear loss of charitable organization status. I think that fear is misplaced. They should fear God more than Caesar.
We have our National Independence from England largely because preachers across the colonies preached about our God given freedoms and the injustice of taxation without representation. They became known as the Black Robed Brigade. They caused men to rise up and resist the Crown and later join George Washington's Army.
Where is our Black Robed Brigade today? Hiding behind their pulpits!
One point I'd like to make on charitable giving, especially monies vowed (tithes). To me, why give it if you are expecting part of it back ? It has always amazed me that you can never out-give God. He owns it all and does not need our pitiful pittance, he just wants to see how much we love Him and that, among other things, by our freely giving.
It's communism, friends, "gay marriage" was tailor made for the communist agenda, read about it here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1942475101/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0786889136&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1ZMA2MC4G5967495NMA1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1942475101/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0786889136&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1ZMA2MC4G5967495NMA1)
Quote from: Reverend on July 19, 2015, 08:14:05 PM
It's communism, friends, "gay marriage" was tailor made for the communist agenda, read about it here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1942475101/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0786889136&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1ZMA2MC4G5967495NMA1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1942475101/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0786889136&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1ZMA2MC4G5967495NMA1)
And here.
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/library/communist-goals-(1963)/