Quote from: quiller on June 27, 2015, 05:03:52 AM
If government dictates WHOM a church may marry, they may deny tax exemption to those who do not, with a direct effect of stifling smaller organizations. This is a monstrous assault on freedom of religion, and deny the individual state's absolute right to have its say in the issue.

At risk of sounding like a deranged O/T rant here, or I'm making more of it than just coincidence, but two nights ago --- before SCOTUScare and Pervert Wedlock were handed down by the Supremely Ignorant --- I happened to watch a crime film featuring Barack Obama.

Well, clips of him as a Senator and Bush as President, with the usual Hollywood out-of-context quotes intended to buttress their story line for Killing Them Softly (a remake of The Friends of Eddie Coyle with touches of Cogan's Trade).

This time around it was Brad Pitt as killer Jackie Cogan, and while Obama is blathering on TV, after overseeing the deaths of four people, Jackie lets loose about America....

That's the final lines in the film, the takeaway message they want you to think about on your way to anywhere else.

It's not a country, it's just a business.

So how much did the Supremes earn, to sell us out? How else could this have happened?

Nobody "sold us out" quiller, the 5 (sometimes 6) Liberals on the court really believe all the claptrap they are spewing. Therein lies the problem, as long as they are still Justices (or others like them) they will continue to apply laws that don't exist, find undefined written "rights"  of some individuals as well as the federal government in the Constitution, attempt to play the role of God in their rulings, allow the federal government to supersede any/all of the 50 individual States as well as select individuals or groups of individuals, and all while belittling the institutions which made this country work better than any ever has. In the name of equality or fairness, we are slowly but surely setting the stage to take away individual rights one by one or redefining words to accomplish goals which they could never gain directly by the ballot box.

Fellow Conservatives, this is the very reason (the appointments to the Supreme Court) we MUST band together to work hard and ensure a
Republican Conservative wins the next election or else we are doomed to see the further erosion of our society in ever increasing ways. Even a moderate Republican is better than another Liberal Democrat, (that term is becoming a redundancy in the USA) who will appoint more people like Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Kennedy, Kagan (and even sometimes Roberts) who will continue to dismantle the wonderful document created by our founding fathers known as our Constitution. Time is short if it has not already passed to stop this madness because when all is said and done, ultimate power in this country is in the hands of the SCOTUS

Quote from: MichaelJ on June 27, 2015, 06:44:37 AM
Nobody "sold us out" quiller, the 5 (sometimes 6) Liberals on the court really believe all the claptrap they are spewing. ( . . . )

Time is short if it has not already passed to stop this madness because when all is said and done, ultimate power in this country is in the hands of the SCOTUS

Sorry. The vote sold us out. Both issues were Constitutional excesses and affronts to us all.  What you say thereafter merely reinforces the need to undo it.

So the Bushes gave us tragedy and Obama's handed us racial animosity. Even if the Republicans somehow do sell Rubio over Bush to an otherwise disenchanted voting public, what's to stop a second Kagan (and doubtlessly open-borders) liberal from TOTALLY shifting the Court? None of the RINOs would behave any differently, and would actively block another Scalia or Thomas.

Quote from: quiller on June 27, 2015, 05:03:52 AM
If government dictates WHOM a church may marry, they may deny tax exemption to those who do not, with a direct effect of stifling smaller organizations. This is a monstrous assault on freedom of religion, and deny the individual state's absolute right to have its say in the issue.

Maybe it's time for churches to bypass the tax exemption anyway.  Most churches I've ever been a part of didn't have anything to tax anyway.  At least they could become political.  I've been asking for decades, since Roe v Wade, where are our church leaders?  If the churches in this country could form a unified front, we would have the largest activist political group in the country.

Thirty million evangelicals never vote.  If they did, they could easily overwhelm the RINOs, both in the primary and in the general elections.

48% of Catholic voters voted to re-elect Obama - even after his ongoing war on Christianity in general, and Catholicism specifically, became obvious!

Do these churches never teach anything about stewardship?  America's real problem is CINOs - CHRISTIANS In Name Only!

See  "A Parable"  at:  http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1431361

Quote from: je_freedom on June 27, 2015, 10:06:06 AM
Thirty million evangelicals never vote.  If they did, they could easily overwhelm the RINOs, both in the primary and in the general elections.

48% of Catholic voters voted to re-elect Obama - even after his ongoing war on Christianity in general, and Catholicism specifically, became obvious!

Do these churches never teach anything about stewardship?  America's real problem is CINOs - CHRISTIANS In Name Only!

See  "A Parable"  at:  http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1431361

IF votes are secret. How do they know the % that voted for what.   

Quote from: walkstall on June 27, 2015, 10:50:13 AM

IF votes are secret. How do they know the % that voted for what.   

You still believe votes are secret? If that were true, how would Demorats know how much to cheat by? It would not surprise me in the least if Obozo's NSA knew how everyone had voted.

Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 10:58:42 AM
You still believe votes are secret? If that were true, how would Demorats know how much to cheat by? It would not surprise me in the least if Obozo's NSA knew how everyone had voted.

  They don't, that's why sometimes there more people voting then there are people.  Or why one precinct all voted for the same person.

Quote from: Dori on June 27, 2015, 08:27:51 AM
Maybe it's time for churches to bypass the tax exemption anyway.  Most churches I've ever been a part of didn't have anything to tax anyway.  At least they could become political.  I've been asking for decades, since Roe v Wade, where are our church leaders?  If the churches in this country could form a unified front, we would have the largest activist political group in the country.

Two points, Dori.

First, the tax exemption the churches are likely to lose has nothing to do with them paying taxes.  It is about a tax exemption for those who give money to churches.  Now, that money is tax deductible for the contributor..... not the church.  Church assets are not involved.  If they lose that status they will likely receive less contributions...... and possibly not be sustainable.

Second, you are absolutely correct about our churches not standing up for biblical teachings when it involves politics.   Part of that is because some fear loss of charitable organization status.  I think that fear is misplaced.  They should fear God more than Caesar. 

We have our National Independence from England largely because preachers across the colonies preached about our God given freedoms and the injustice of taxation without representation.  They became known as the Black Robed Brigade.  They caused men to rise up and resist the Crown and later join George Washington's Army.

Where is our Black Robed Brigade today?  Hiding behind their pulpits!

Quote from: je_freedom on June 27, 2015, 10:06:06 AM
Thirty million evangelicals never vote.  If they did, they could easily overwhelm the RINOs, both in the primary and in the general elections.

48% of Catholic voters voted to re-elect Obama - even after his ongoing war on Christianity in general, and Catholicism specifically, became obvious!

Do these churches never teach anything about stewardship?  America's real problem is CINOs - CHRISTIANS In Name Only!

See  "A Parable"  at:  http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1431361

Just like the Jewish vote in the US. They are liberals first.

Quote from: walkstall on June 27, 2015, 11:09:08 AM
  They don't, that's why sometimes there more people voting then there are people.  Or why one precinct all voted for the same person.

Yeah I heard about that one. They all voted for the Democrat - even the registered Republicans.

Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
Yeah I heard about that one. They all voted for the Democrat - even the registered Republicans.

Not just one but 59....   

QuoteAccording to preliminary results, Mitt Romney got absolutely no votes in 59 of Philadelphia's most heavily African-American precincts:

QuoteIt's one thing for a Democratic presidential candidate to dominate a Democratic city like Philadelphia, but check out this head-spinning figure: In 59 voting divisions in the city, Mitt Romney received not one vote. Zero. Zilch.

Quote from: GuyMontag on June 26, 2015, 09:02:51 PM
Daidalos - I want to live in a country where Christians (my entire extended family, by the way) can freely exercise their religion without persecution (They can, and we do. Gays marrying each other doesn't equate Persecution, if you think it does, then ya better NOT check out what ISIS does to Christians then. Your head might explode) - and yes, I'd be willing to fight and die for that cause.  What's up next for Christianity is an existential threat that might not be an outright ban, but it's going to force the entire belief system onto the margins of society.  (If you don't think that's just as bad, try being an open Neo-Nazi and holding down a decent job.)

Public opinion on homosexual marriage was trending toward the positive, but there was still hope that the pro-gay marriage and anti-gay marriage points of view could have existed side by side and learned to tolerate one another.  This, as I said earlier, makes homosexual marriages a right alongside traditional marriages - which short-circuits the end result.  Mainstream Christians that take their faith seriously aren't just going to kowtow to what's fast becoming the social norm.  This new legal precedent doesn't bode well for them.  If you don't think that denomination after denomination are going to get the absolute shit sued out of them for discrimination, watch.  Churches are already being forced to marry homosexuals in England and Denmark.  It can damn well happen here. 

Losing their tax-exempt status is the worry right now...that may end up being the least of their worries around a decade after today.

First off, gays being able to marry, is NOT persecution. If you think it is you have zero clue what real persecution for the faith is.

Second, Christianity, as all religions should and is supposed to be on the margins already. We don't have state religions in the U.S.

Lastly, again, when government decided to take what for thousands of years had been a purely religious ceremony/function/contract/union etc...And made it an official government function. In absolute disregard for the separation of the Church and the State. Government also extended to those who marry certain rights, which for many many years now, have been denied to some in our society. And which to hear those who think this is persecution for Christ tell it, that's the way it still should be.

Those rights, should only be afforded to a select few, and only then, if they make a choice, which Christians themselves agree with.

Frankly, as a Bible Believing Christian myself, I"m sort of a little tired of seeing so called Christians who think that somehow the sin of homosexuality is the greatest evil of all time, (when the Bible clearly says it's not) who think and run around telling us all how homosexuals should be discriminated against, because they're engaging in "abomination to God" all the while ignoring the FACT that God expressly states many times over in the scripture that ALL sin is abomination to God. Not just that one. And who sit around, telling us that the scriptures, and our religious choice should also be political policy.

As if the Church, should also be the State.

Well sorry America isn't supposed to work that way. And Christians, should be the last people, to wish to deny rights and equality under the law to someone else. Frankly at this point, what we need to see, is not preachers, using the pulpit to push politics.

No what we need are ministers who aren't afraid to tell people that there's more to the Bible than just John 3:16. There's more to God and the Bible than just what makes ya "feel good". And that the principle of equality for all under the law, is also one which just happens to have originated with the God of the Bible. IE: For all have sinned and are fallen short of the glory of God. Sound familiar, it should, it's God telling us all, that not one of us is perfect, that we are all equal in Gods eyes.

And in the most bad of ways, we need ministers who are willing to stand up, and tell their own flocks, that church, is not and does not exist to function as a country club, or a rock concert/sunday morning entertainment. And lastly to put it bluntly, I'm personally about fed up  with hearing about how gay's marrying is somehow a threat to the Christian religion/church.

When the fact of the matter is, A, there isn't a single lawsuit anyplace trying to force a church to marry anyone. There isn't a single case/lawsuit where a Church which won't do so, is being denied tax exemption status.

And the Bible itself, tells us, that the Church, has in it's past, and will again in it's future face real threats, as opposed to this made up, and self serving "threat" posed by gays marrying one another. ROFL.

Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
Yeah I heard about that one. They all voted for the Democrat - even the registered Republicans.

Have electronic voting machines at your polls? If the answer is yes, then they not only know who and or what was voted for, but exactly who cast what vote for whom and what.

In fact it's even been shown that the things can have the votes you cast on them, changed by someone else, from outside the booth, before you've even finished casting your votes on the ballot.

Electronic voting, is the worst thing to come along, since, well Christians decided that gays marrying one another is persecution of Gods people. 

Quote from: mdgiles on June 27, 2015, 10:58:42 AM
You still believe votes are secret? If that were true, how would Demorats know how much to cheat by? It would not surprise me in the least if Obozo's NSA knew how everyone had voted.

You've got that exactly right and what worries me is the next voting time around. 

Quote from: keyboarder on June 27, 2015, 06:55:11 PM
You've got that exactly right and what worries me is the next voting time around.

Key I was too, so now I am a poll worker :) You should volunteer and do  it too sometimes. In fact I think everyone should volunteer to work the polls at least once in their life.

I know for me, it was a real eye opener. I mean it was shocking to see, how much power two, and only those two, political power the DNC and GOP wield.