Hurricane Harvey

[Ms.Independence]

I'm sorry, but if the news in Virginia said it was going to move very slow, skirt the cost and head east over several days, and dump 30-40 inches of rain AND that rivers would be backing up because of storm surge... on Wednesday and Thursday last week....   That's enough time to move to higher ground.  I wouldn't have cared what the stupid politicians think or said, they're not meteorologists, are they?

Before I'll call anyone stupid for not leaving - I'll call them willfully ignorant for listening to anyone but the meteorologists!    Now they got a mess, it could be worse ... somehow, I suppose.   When we heard the forecasts for Corpus Christi were 8-10 feet storm surge, and later the same day they upped it to 10-12' surge, with rivers backing up & rain on top of that ... DUH!   Leave the friggin' area for high ground inland.

I've seen first hand what happens at OBX North Carolina, several times.   Those people just "deal with it" and rebuild, year after year.  Kinda like Japan and earthquakes.   But .... I guess I'm trying hard to be sympathetic, 2-3 days warning, they SAW how Corpus Christi got slammed, er...  just kinda borders on well, "Why did you wait, when you knew what was coming?"   I do feel really pity those old folks who were in several feet of water, and totally dependent on someone to move them.   But those who *could* move, and didn't?   Meh... not so much, a little bit, but not so much....  putting your life and the life of your family at risk because you're afraid of looters - you decided to stay home?   Explain that one to God if you unexpectedly meet Him early.  A big screen TV is worth how much, compared to the life of my kids...?

Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating.  We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us.  There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter.  IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!

Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.

[walkstall]

Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating.  We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us.  There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter.  IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!

Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.

I may be old but I can see dry land in back of the nursing home residents.  Also the home is five stories high and from what I can see from the photo there is power. 

They may need to call out for pizza and not flush the toilets until the water drops.

[supsalemgr]

Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating.  We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us.  There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter.  IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!

Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.

Memories of "School Bus" Nagan. The truth is he had no plan and is now trying to CYA.

[Hoofer]

Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating.  We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us.  There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter.  IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!

Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.

Also have family which has lived in Florida +30 years.   One of them lives near a former weather forecaster who built a "hurricane proof house".  How it's hurricane proof, I don't know, but their houses are called hurricane proof, block walls, with steel deep into the ground & all the way to the roof.   They all live on high ground too.

Since you already know Florida is the Lightning & Hurricane leader in the USA ... doesn't that automatically keep you prepared to "move on short notice" or have a couple of contingency plans if plan "A" goes sour?

For me, I avoid flood insurance, because I live on a hill.
Lightning is always a problem, so I unplug & disconnect the antennas to expensive HAM radio gear when I turn it off.
We get Ice storms, so I have 3 chain saws with extra chains, mixed gas with Stabil, always on hand.
We have a propane generator, ready to go, and backup gasoline generators.
and on and on....   My point is, they *knew* it was coming, but the "plan" seemed to be - "Hey, let's put all our eggs in the Government and good graces of the neighbor's basket - and do nothing to prepare!"   It's one thing to not have a plan, maybe you're new to the area, don't have any money, live in a nursing home / hospital, or simply get caught flat-footed.

When my sister hears a big hurricane is headed her way in Florida, she packs up the kids and they take a ride to South Carolina & visit Grandpa & Grandma.   The van is already loaded with some canned food & sleeping bags, I'll bet.  She doesn't wait till the roads get full of traffic.   I guess you could say she makes up her own mind, not trusting the local authorities much.

[Ms.Independence]

Also have family which has lived in Florida +30 years.   One of them lives near a former weather forecaster who built a "hurricane proof house".  How it's hurricane proof, I don't know, but their houses are called hurricane proof, block walls, with steel deep into the ground & all the way to the roof.   They all live on high ground too.

Since you already know Florida is the Lightning & Hurricane leader in the USA ... doesn't that automatically keep you prepared to "move on short notice" or have a couple of contingency plans if plan "A" goes sour?

For me, I avoid flood insurance, because I live on a hill.
Lightning is always a problem, so I unplug & disconnect the antennas to expensive HAM radio gear when I turn it off.
We get Ice storms, so I have 3 chain saws with extra chains, mixed gas with Stabil, always on hand.
We have a propane generator, ready to go, and backup gasoline generators.
and on and on....   My point is, they *knew* it was coming, but the "plan" seemed to be - "Hey, let's put all our eggs in the Government and good graces of the neighbor's basket - and do nothing to prepare!"   It's one thing to not have a plan, maybe you're new to the area, don't have any money, live in a nursing home / hospital, or simply get caught flat-footed.

When my sister hears a big hurricane is headed her way in Florida, she packs up the kids and they take a ride to South Carolina & visit Grandpa & Grandma.   The van is already loaded with some canned food & sleeping bags, I'll bet.  She doesn't wait till the roads get full of traffic.   I guess you could say she makes up her own mind, not trusting the local authorities much.

When you live along the coast in FL and you experience everyone and their brother going to the store to stock up at the same time when a hurricane is developing, you learn to keep what you need on hand so that you're not scrambling at the last minute. If we decide to ride out the storm we have storm shutters and roll down shutters. Perhaps we've gone a bit overboard, but we have shelves and a refrigerator full of dehydrated food, MRE's, 55 gallons of fresh drinking water; an 'apparatus' to make distilled water, camp stove, shelves of toilet paper and paper towels, etc., plus hubby has a generator that he bought years ago (never been used yet) to run some appliances and alternates to run the A/C. Large tank for extra gas. If we don't stay, we head north or bunker in at a hurricane rated building. I've got several hotels picked out north of here that are pet friendly.  If those are booked -- then as a last resort we fly out and take a mini vacation (thank you credit card).

[Hoofer]

When you live along the coast in FL and you experience everyone and their brother going to the store to stock up at the same time when a hurricane is developing, you learn to keep what you need on hand so that you're not scrambling at the last minute. If we decide to ride out the storm we have storm shutters and roll down shutters. Perhaps we've gone a bit overboard, but we have shelves and a refrigerator full of dehydrated food, MRE's, 55 gallons of fresh drinking water; an 'apparatus' to make distilled water, camp stove, shelves of toilet paper and paper towels, etc., plus hubby has a generator that he bought years ago (never been used yet) to run some appliances and alternates to run the A/C. Large tank for extra gas. If we don't stay, we head north or bunker in at a hurricane rated building. I've got several hotels picked out north of here that are pet friendly.  If those are booked -- then as a last resort we fly out and take a mini vacation (thank you credit card).

Exactly the point!   You're prepared, and have a couple of contingency plans.

[Hoofer]

Still... I see those pictures, and my heart goes out to those poor people.   What an unimaginable  disaster.
http://www.redcross.org/

Being the "O"-negative type, and a pediatric donor, there is something I can personally do to make a difference, more valuable than money.

[Ms.Independence]

This is heartbreaking .It is now being reported that some of the shelters that people have evacuated to are flooding; toilets are backing up and there is raw sewage in the floodwaters.  Rescuers are having a hard time getting to the people to supply them with food and water.  What about sending in helicopters and air evacuating these people?  Louisiana is starting to flood as well.

Problem is ... where to evacuate all these people to next?  Dallas/Ft. Worth area?

[Ms.Independence]

Exactly the point!   You're prepared, and have a couple of contingency plans.

Yes, you prepare the best you can and you have an escape plan.

No one, not even the meteorologists predicted the 20 inches of additional rainfall/flooding/storm surge. 

Interesting article by the LA Times:

For years, engineers have warned that Houston was a flood disaster in the making. Why didn't somebody do something?

....."Houston is very flat," said Robert Gilbert, a University of Texas at Austin civil engineer who helped investigate the flooding of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. "There is no way for the water to drain out."

Indeed, the city has less slope than a shower floor....

....The storm was unprecedented, but the city has been deceiving itself for decades about its vulnerability to flooding, said Robert Bea, a member of the National Academy of Engineering and UC Berkeley emeritus civil engineering professor who has studied hurricane risks along the Gulf Coast.

The city's flood system is supposed to protect the public from a 100-year storm, but Bea calls that "a 100-year lie" because it is based on a rainfall total of 13 inches in 24 hours......

....Dams along the rivers were built mainly for water storage, not flood control. Because Texas is so flat, the dams can't hold much water, unlike western dams that are built in deep gorges......

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-harvey-engineering-20170828-story.html

[Possum]

This is heartbreaking .It is now being reported that some of the shelters that people have evacuated to are flooding; toilets are backing up and there is raw sewage in the floodwaters.  Rescuers are having a hard time getting to the people to supply them with food and water.  What about sending in helicopters and air evacuating these people?  Louisiana is starting to flood as well.

Problem is ... where to evacuate all these people to next?  Dallas/Ft. Worth area?

Good question, where do you move six million people to? Usually we see the biggest damage from the storm surge, and while the damage from the surge was intensive, it is the rain that is causing the most $ damage. 

[supsalemgr]

Good question, where do you move six million people to? Usually we see the biggest damage from the storm surge, and while the damage from the surge was intensive, it is the rain that is causing the most $ damage.

There is no preparation for 50" of rain. Houston is not on the coast, but flat. Storm surge usually retreats rapidly, but the damage is done by the force of the water coming in.

[Possum]

There is no preparation for 50" of rain. Houston is not on the coast, but flat. Storm surge usually retreats rapidly, but the damage is done by the force of the water coming in.

Yeah, looks like some of my favorite bait shops in port a are gone along with most of the town due to the surge. At least I have not heard of any deaths there, guess they all got out safe. the wife and I usually go camping on  Malaquite in September, with kids in school and most vacations over, you can drive 30 miles down the shore and get where you will not see anyone. Lots of coyotes and deer down there, what they drink I sure don't know. Was down there a few years ago (10?) when Rita was off shore. The surge was affecting Port A and the power is absolutely amazing. Easy to see why it destroyed Galveston that year.