If anyone in this forum is in TX -- my heartfelt prayers for you.
The extreme devastation to TX is incredible and may soon be recognized as the worst disaster in U.S. history - rain is in the forecast to continue for several more days - up to 50 inches.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIPGbGlWAAA1q_M.jpg)
Nursing home was finally rescued ...
www.cnn.com/2017/08/27/us/flooded-nursing-home-residents-trnd/index.html
Donations:
https://www.mercuryone.org/
https://www.samaritanspurse.org/disaster/hurricane-harvey/
Wow. ??? This was moved??? Seen as not newsworthy and a distraction? Ok then.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 27, 2017, 08:48:09 PM
Wow. ??? This was moved??? Seen as not newsworthy and a distraction? Ok then.
I didn't move it, but it isn't political, I'd have posted it in miscellaneous.
My daughter in law is in Houston, said it's a mess in certain areas, but it's the rain and tornado warnings that seem unending, she said aside from all the mess, life is going on as normal, people are working normal jobs and doing normal stuff as to be expected.
Quote from: Solar on August 27, 2017, 08:59:55 PM
I didn't move it, but it isn't political, I'd have posted it in miscellaneous.
My daughter in law is in Houston, said it's a mess in certain areas, but it's the rain and tornado warnings that seem unending, she said aside from all the mess, life is going on as normal, people are working normal jobs and doing normal stuff as to be expected.
Don't let a crisis go to waste for FREE money.
But then we do pay taxes for things like this.
Will this be Bush's or Trump's fault.
We know it not b o fault as he always leads from behind.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 27, 2017, 08:25:53 PM
If anyone in this forum is in TX -- my heartfelt prayers for you.
The extreme devastation to TX is incredible and may soon be recognized as the worst disaster in U.S. history - rain is in the forecast to continue for several more days - up to 50 inches.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIPGbGlWAAA1q_M.jpg)
Nursing home was finally rescued ...
www.cnn.com/2017/08/27/us/flooded-nursing-home-residents-trnd/index.html
Donations:
https://www.mercuryone.org/
https://www.samaritanspurse.org/disaster/hurricane-harvey/
I take it the nursing home did not have a back door. :rolleyes:
The land looks dry in back.
Quote from: walkstall on August 27, 2017, 09:39:08 PM
Don't let a crisis go to waste for FREE money.
But then we do pay taxes for things like this.
Will this be Bush's or Trump's fault.
We know it not b o fault as he always leads from behind.
Yep, as bad as this storm was, more lives were lost in a week in Detroit. Not to downplay those affected, but truth is, it the loss was preventable in most cases. People could have left the area, they had plenty of warning.
I truly am sorry for people's loss, but the fact is, this is life, we all suffer loss, we all die from one cause or another.
If I sound harsh, so be it, but I will not feign sympathy for people that moved to an area known for its harsh weather, be it hurricanes, heat or tornadoes, it's the place they chose to live, just like I chose to live in an area where one day, all will burn in a forest fire, that's a given, but it was my choice, just like it was theirs.
It will be interesting to see how the media spins all the moochers with their hands out for govt aid, when in fact, the true Texan will simply take off his good cowboy boots and put on waders and go about his business.
That's what Conservatives do, they do what has to be done.
?? Walks, saying a prayer for you as well. This is going to be by far one of the most catastrophic hurricanes in U.S. history and they are still expecting more rain, more devastation. Yes a little of our tax dollars go towards emergencies and we pay dearly for insurance; some won't have insurance, I guarantee it. With the enormity and severity of this storm it is going to take many years for Texas to make a full recovery. This will have an impact on our economy for certain from gasoline prices, to more stringent building codes to higher insurance costs.
Compassion towards ones' neighbors is what will get Texans through this. I've been through several hurricanes with Charley being the worst. Not fun being in a shelter, leaving the shelter afterwards and dodging fallen power lines and trees, wading in several feet of water checking on loved ones and coming home to your son holding on to our sailboat. If you don't care to donate a few pennies or say a few prayers, that's totally up to you.
Prayers for those in TX and those especially in Houston ....
Lord God, we pray for relief for those impacted by Harvey and ask that further rainfall is minimal in Houston and the surrounding areas. We ask for protection for those who have lost their homes, for those affected by flooding, and for those who will be affected in the days ahead.
Please bless and protect the first responders, agencies and volunteers working to rescue and bring hope to South Texas.
In Jesus Name,
Amen
We're from the govt and here to help, so don't worry, it's only a rainstorm.... WTF? Why did they lie to the people? THis is what Californian's expect from the state, so we always do the exact opposite, but Texas?
This lady was Spot On!!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIB4XwSXUAAQJHl.jpg)
https://twitter.com/ReadyHarris/status/900852278395056128/photo/1
Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2017, 07:59:40 AM
We're from the govt and here to help, so don't worry, it's only a rainstorm.... WTF? Why did they lie to the people? THis is what Californian's expect from the state, so we always do the exact opposite, but Texas?
This lady was Spot On!!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIB4XwSXUAAQJHl.jpg)
https://twitter.com/ReadyHarris/status/900852278395056128/photo/1
Apparently Governor Abbot (R) suggested that people evacuate; meanwhile the mayor of Houston (D) said evacuating would do more harm than good and that people would be trapped on the freeways. IMHO, they could have designated ALL lanes of ALL highways in the areas as exits; that would have increased the amount of lanes to exit twofold. They could have sent in school buses, commercial buses, airport shuttles, army vehicles, etc. to minimize the amount of vehicles ... but get the people who wanted the heck out of Dodge, out!
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 28, 2017, 09:46:37 AM
Apparently Governor Abbot (R) suggested that people evacuate; meanwhile the mayor of Houston (D) said evacuating would do more harm than good and that people would be trapped on the freeways. IMHO, they could have designated ALL lanes of ALL highways in the areas as exits; that would have increased the amount of lanes to exit twofold. They could have sent in school buses, commercial buses, airport shuttles, army vehicles, etc. to minimize the amount of vehicles ... but get the people who wanted the heck out of Dodge, out!
Yep, lying to people just put him on notice for a recall. This has shades of Katrina painted all over it, and for what? Incompetence?
This explains why people stayed when it wasn't safe to do so.
There is argument that there wasn't enough time to evacuate people and that the intensity of the storm was unknown. Yeppers, hurricanes are unpredictable, but you mean to tell me that they were able to predict the amount of rainfall, the likely storm surge, that it was going to hit along the TX coast and possibly into Louisiana, yet didn't have a clue as to how big it was? Horse puckey! Meteorologists and scientists have models that they play with showing different scenarios, from the least likely scenario to most likely and you take the worse cast scenario and you plan from there hoping for the best. Yes, Harvey developed very quickly; but when you have a Cat 2 hurricane barreling at you chances are it's going to intensify. You start evacuating people in low lying areas; TX isn't exactly filled with mountains along the coast and Huston isn't all that far inland.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 28, 2017, 02:35:59 PM
There is argument that there wasn't enough time to evacuate people and that the intensity of the storm was unknown. Yeppers, hurricanes are unpredictable, but you mean to tell me that they were able to predict the amount of rainfall, the likely storm surge, that it was going to hit along the TX coast and possibly into Louisiana, yet didn't have a clue as to how big it was? Horse puckey! Meteorologists and scientists have models that they play with showing different scenarios, from the least likely scenario to most likely and you take the worse cast scenario and you plan from there hoping for the best. Yes, Harvey developed very quickly; but when you have a Cat 2 hurricane barreling at you chances are it's going to intensify. You start evacuating people in low lying areas; TX isn't exactly filled with mountains along the coast and Huston isn't all that far inland.
This is what you get when you mix MSM and LIV. All the net new that I look at, said get the hell out of dodge. Don't walk run!!!
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 28, 2017, 02:35:59 PM
There is argument that there wasn't enough time to evacuate people and that the intensity of the storm was unknown. Yeppers, hurricanes are unpredictable, but you mean to tell me that they were able to predict the amount of rainfall, the likely storm surge, that it was going to hit along the TX coast and possibly into Louisiana, yet didn't have a clue as to how big it was? Horse puckey! Meteorologists and scientists have models that they play with showing different scenarios, from the least likely scenario to most likely and you take the worse cast scenario and you plan from there hoping for the best. Yes, Harvey developed very quickly; but when you have a Cat 2 hurricane barreling at you chances are it's going to intensify. You start evacuating people in low lying areas; TX isn't exactly filled with mountains along the coast and Huston isn't all that far inland.
The media is coming to Turner's defense not because hurricanes are unpredictable but because Turner made a bad decision. He just did not order an evacuation, he told people to stay put!!!!! Even with all the predictions of flooding, he told the citizens of Houston to stay put!!!!! Had he not said anything, there would have been a number of citizens who would have left or would not have been encouraged to stay. So why is the media covering for him? Because he is a liberal. Had a conservative made that choice the media would be blasting him as if his last name was Bush.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 28, 2017, 02:35:59 PM
There is argument that there wasn't enough time to evacuate people and that the intensity of the storm was unknown. Yeppers, hurricanes are unpredictable, but you mean to tell me that they were able to predict the amount of rainfall, the likely storm surge, that it was going to hit along the TX coast and possibly into Louisiana, yet didn't have a clue as to how big it was? Horse puckey! Meteorologists and scientists have models that they play with showing different scenarios, from the least likely scenario to most likely and you take the worse cast scenario and you plan from there hoping for the best. Yes, Harvey developed very quickly; but when you have a Cat 2 hurricane barreling at you chances are it's going to intensify. You start evacuating people in low lying areas; TX isn't exactly filled with mountains along the coast and Huston isn't all that far inland.
I'm sorry, but if the news in Virginia said it was going to move very slow, skirt the cost and head east over several days, and dump 30-40 inches of rain AND that rivers would be backing up because of storm surge... on Wednesday and Thursday last week.... That's enough time to move to higher ground. I wouldn't have cared what the stupid politicians think or said, they're not meteorologists, are they?
Before I'll call anyone stupid for not leaving - I'll call them willfully ignorant for listening to anyone but the meteorologists! Now they got a mess, it could be worse ... somehow, I suppose. When we heard the forecasts for Corpus Christi were 8-10 feet storm surge, and later the same day they upped it to 10-12' surge, with rivers backing up & rain on top of that ... DUH! Leave the friggin' area for high ground inland.
I've seen first hand what happens at OBX North Carolina, several times. Those people just "deal with it" and rebuild, year after year. Kinda like Japan and earthquakes. But .... I guess I'm trying hard to be sympathetic, 2-3 days warning, they SAW how Corpus Christi got slammed, er... just kinda borders on well, "Why did you wait, when you knew what was coming?" I do feel really pity those old folks who were in several feet of water, and totally dependent on someone to move them. But those who *could* move, and didn't? Meh... not so much, a little bit, but not so much.... putting your life and the life of your family at risk because you're afraid of looters - you decided to stay home? Explain that one to God if you unexpectedly meet Him early. A big screen TV is worth how much, compared to the life of my kids...?
Turner the DEM mayor in this situation told people to stay put because he didn't want people dying in their vehicles trying to evacuate. He even reminded them of another hurricane that hit years ago to raise fear and doubt in them about leaving. He's absolutely despicable. He did absolutely nothing to evacuate 'his' people. He didn't put any effort into creating any kind of a massive evacuation plan. Zero. Nadda. It was easier for him to let everyone else do the work after the hurricane hit. He and his cronies sat and scoffed at Gov. Abbott when he suggested evacuation. Turner is a mindless bumbling liberal idiot who had is head up his rear! I wonder where he is through all this? My hunch is he evacuated his sorry butt and his family to higher ground.
I reflect back to the picture of those in the nursing homes stuck in wheelchairs with the water rising. Can you imagine the horror that they went through? They sat in continuing rising water unable to ambulate and unable to care for themselves, not knowing if they were going to eventually going to drown. (If they could care for themselves, they wouldn't be in a nursing home). That should have NEVER happened. Yes, IMHO mayor Turner is 100% responsible for the deaths and injuries of the people of Huston for the simple fact he encouraged people to stay put and he did nothing to facilitate people evacuating.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 28, 2017, 04:05:05 PM
I'm sorry, but if the news in Virginia said it was going to move very slow, skirt the cost and head east over several days, and dump 30-40 inches of rain AND that rivers would be backing up because of storm surge... on Wednesday and Thursday last week.... That's enough time to move to higher ground. I wouldn't have cared what the stupid politicians think or said, they're not meteorologists, are they?
Before I'll call anyone stupid for not leaving - I'll call them willfully ignorant for listening to anyone but the meteorologists! Now they got a mess, it could be worse ... somehow, I suppose. When we heard the forecasts for Corpus Christi were 8-10 feet storm surge, and later the same day they upped it to 10-12' surge, with rivers backing up & rain on top of that ... DUH! Leave the friggin' area for high ground inland.
I've seen first hand what happens at OBX North Carolina, several times. Those people just "deal with it" and rebuild, year after year. Kinda like Japan and earthquakes. But .... I guess I'm trying hard to be sympathetic, 2-3 days warning, they SAW how Corpus Christi got slammed, er... just kinda borders on well, "Why did you wait, when you knew what was coming?" I do feel really pity those old folks who were in several feet of water, and totally dependent on someone to move them. But those who *could* move, and didn't? Meh... not so much, a little bit, but not so much.... putting your life and the life of your family at risk because you're afraid of looters - you decided to stay home? Explain that one to God if you unexpectedly meet Him early. A big screen TV is worth how much, compared to the life of my kids...?
Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating. We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us. There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter. IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!
Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 29, 2017, 06:40:36 AM
Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating. We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us. There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter. IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!
Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.
I may be old but I can see dry land in back of the nursing home residents. Also the home is five stories high and from what I can see from the photo there is power.
They may need to call out for pizza and not flush the toilets until the water drops.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 29, 2017, 06:40:36 AM
Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating. We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us. There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter. IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!
Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.
Memories of "School Bus" Nagan. The truth is he had no plan and is now trying to CYA.
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 29, 2017, 06:40:36 AM
Here in FL they usually cautiously error to the worse case scenario in the event of a hurricane. We have several times packed up and evacuated for nothing to return home hours later ... beats the heck out of being stranded in the storm surge or standing in what's left of your home. Hurricane Charley was at first predicted to land much further north than us, but it was also predicted that the storm surge could be devastating. We decided to evacuate ... later we watched in disbelief as the local meteorologist announced that the hurricane had taken a quick turn and was heading right for us. There was at that point a very slim window in which to evacuate, but it was repeatedly announced to get out now and head for the nearest shelter. IMHO without a doubt, he saved lives!
Yes, the idiot mayor had time to prepare and to evacuate some people. He failed.
Also have family which has lived in Florida +30 years. One of them lives near a former weather forecaster who built a "hurricane proof house". How it's hurricane proof, I don't know, but their houses are called hurricane proof, block walls, with steel deep into the ground & all the way to the roof. They all live on high ground too.
Since you already know Florida is the Lightning & Hurricane leader in the USA ... doesn't that automatically keep you prepared to "move on short notice" or have a couple of contingency plans if plan "A" goes sour?
For me, I avoid flood insurance, because I live on a hill.
Lightning is always a problem, so I unplug & disconnect the antennas to expensive HAM radio gear when I turn it off.
We get Ice storms, so I have 3 chain saws with extra chains, mixed gas with Stabil, always on hand.
We have a propane generator, ready to go, and backup gasoline generators.
and on and on.... My point is, they *knew* it was coming, but the "plan" seemed to be - "Hey, let's put all our eggs in the Government and good graces of the neighbor's basket - and do nothing to prepare!" It's one thing to not have a plan, maybe you're new to the area, don't have any money, live in a nursing home / hospital, or simply get caught flat-footed.
When my sister hears a big hurricane is headed her way in Florida, she packs up the kids and they take a ride to South Carolina & visit Grandpa & Grandma. The van is already loaded with some canned food & sleeping bags, I'll bet. She doesn't wait till the roads get full of traffic. I guess you could say she makes up her own mind, not trusting the local authorities much.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 29, 2017, 03:15:33 PM
Also have family which has lived in Florida +30 years. One of them lives near a former weather forecaster who built a "hurricane proof house". How it's hurricane proof, I don't know, but their houses are called hurricane proof, block walls, with steel deep into the ground & all the way to the roof. They all live on high ground too.
Since you already know Florida is the Lightning & Hurricane leader in the USA ... doesn't that automatically keep you prepared to "move on short notice" or have a couple of contingency plans if plan "A" goes sour?
For me, I avoid flood insurance, because I live on a hill.
Lightning is always a problem, so I unplug & disconnect the antennas to expensive HAM radio gear when I turn it off.
We get Ice storms, so I have 3 chain saws with extra chains, mixed gas with Stabil, always on hand.
We have a propane generator, ready to go, and backup gasoline generators.
and on and on.... My point is, they *knew* it was coming, but the "plan" seemed to be - "Hey, let's put all our eggs in the Government and good graces of the neighbor's basket - and do nothing to prepare!" It's one thing to not have a plan, maybe you're new to the area, don't have any money, live in a nursing home / hospital, or simply get caught flat-footed.
When my sister hears a big hurricane is headed her way in Florida, she packs up the kids and they take a ride to South Carolina & visit Grandpa & Grandma. The van is already loaded with some canned food & sleeping bags, I'll bet. She doesn't wait till the roads get full of traffic. I guess you could say she makes up her own mind, not trusting the local authorities much.
When you live along the coast in FL and you experience everyone and their brother going to the store to stock up at the same time when a hurricane is developing, you learn to keep what you need on hand so that you're not scrambling at the last minute. If we decide to ride out the storm we have storm shutters and roll down shutters. Perhaps we've gone a bit overboard, but we have shelves and a refrigerator full of dehydrated food, MRE's, 55 gallons of fresh drinking water; an 'apparatus' to make distilled water, camp stove, shelves of toilet paper and paper towels, etc., plus hubby has a generator that he bought years ago (never been used yet) to run some appliances and alternates to run the A/C. Large tank for extra gas. If we don't stay, we head north or bunker in at a hurricane rated building. I've got several hotels picked out north of here that are pet friendly. If those are booked -- then as a last resort we fly out and take a mini vacation (thank you credit card).
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 29, 2017, 04:43:07 PM
When you live along the coast in FL and you experience everyone and their brother going to the store to stock up at the same time when a hurricane is developing, you learn to keep what you need on hand so that you're not scrambling at the last minute. If we decide to ride out the storm we have storm shutters and roll down shutters. Perhaps we've gone a bit overboard, but we have shelves and a refrigerator full of dehydrated food, MRE's, 55 gallons of fresh drinking water; an 'apparatus' to make distilled water, camp stove, shelves of toilet paper and paper towels, etc., plus hubby has a generator that he bought years ago (never been used yet) to run some appliances and alternates to run the A/C. Large tank for extra gas. If we don't stay, we head north or bunker in at a hurricane rated building. I've got several hotels picked out north of here that are pet friendly. If those are booked -- then as a last resort we fly out and take a mini vacation (thank you credit card).
Exactly the point! You're prepared, and have a couple of contingency plans.
Still... I see those pictures, and my heart goes out to those poor people. What an unimaginable disaster.
http://www.redcross.org/
Being the "O"-negative type, and a pediatric donor, there is something I can personally do to make a difference, more valuable than money.
This is heartbreaking .It is now being reported that some of the shelters that people have evacuated to are flooding; toilets are backing up and there is raw sewage in the floodwaters. Rescuers are having a hard time getting to the people to supply them with food and water. What about sending in helicopters and air evacuating these people? Louisiana is starting to flood as well.
Problem is ... where to evacuate all these people to next? Dallas/Ft. Worth area?
Quote from: Hoofer on August 29, 2017, 05:42:43 PM
Exactly the point! You're prepared, and have a couple of contingency plans.
Yes, you prepare the best you can and you have an escape plan.
No one, not even the meteorologists predicted the 20 inches of additional rainfall/flooding/storm surge.
Interesting article by the LA Times:
For years, engineers have warned that Houston was a flood disaster in the making. Why didn't somebody do something?....."Houston is very flat," said Robert Gilbert, a University of Texas at Austin civil engineer who helped investigate the flooding of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. "There is no way for the water to drain out."
Indeed, the city has less slope than a shower floor....
....The storm was unprecedented, but the city has been deceiving itself for decades about its vulnerability to flooding, said Robert Bea, a member of the National Academy of Engineering and UC Berkeley emeritus civil engineering professor who has studied hurricane risks along the Gulf Coast.
The city's flood system is supposed to protect the public from a 100-year storm, but Bea calls that "a 100-year lie" because it is based on a rainfall total of 13 inches in 24 hours......
....Dams along the rivers were built mainly for water storage, not flood control. Because Texas is so flat, the dams can't hold much water, unlike western dams that are built in deep gorges......
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-harvey-engineering-20170828-story.html
Quote from: Ms.Independence on August 30, 2017, 05:26:10 AM
This is heartbreaking .It is now being reported that some of the shelters that people have evacuated to are flooding; toilets are backing up and there is raw sewage in the floodwaters. Rescuers are having a hard time getting to the people to supply them with food and water. What about sending in helicopters and air evacuating these people? Louisiana is starting to flood as well.
Problem is ... where to evacuate all these people to next? Dallas/Ft. Worth area?
Good question, where do you move six million people to? Usually we see the biggest damage from the storm surge, and while the damage from the surge was intensive, it is the rain that is causing the most $ damage.
Quote from: s3779m on August 30, 2017, 12:19:29 PM
Good question, where do you move six million people to? Usually we see the biggest damage from the storm surge, and while the damage from the surge was intensive, it is the rain that is causing the most $ damage.
There is no preparation for 50" of rain. Houston is not on the coast, but flat. Storm surge usually retreats rapidly, but the damage is done by the force of the water coming in.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 30, 2017, 12:45:45 PM
There is no preparation for 50" of rain. Houston is not on the coast, but flat. Storm surge usually retreats rapidly, but the damage is done by the force of the water coming in.
Yeah, looks like some of my favorite bait shops in port a are gone along with most of the town due to the surge. At least I have not heard of any deaths there, guess they all got out safe. the wife and I usually go camping on Malaquite in September, with kids in school and most vacations over, you can drive 30 miles down the shore and get where you will not see anyone. Lots of coyotes and deer down there, what they drink I sure don't know. Was down there a few years ago (10?) when Rita was off shore. The surge was affecting Port A and the power is absolutely amazing. Easy to see why it destroyed Galveston that year.