what are we Christians to anticipate as we see the day approaching

[Reverend]

Depending on who your listening to.   

It always does...

[dadman]

Show me where the word rapture is located in scripture

the concept is displayed "caught up"

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord .. that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord .. will not precede those who have fallen asleep .. for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout .. with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God .. and the dead in Christ will rise first .. then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air .. and so we shall always be with the Lord .. therefore comfort one another with these words ..... 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

Jesus: because you have kept the word of my perseverance .. I also will keep you from (out of) the hour of testing ... that hour which is about to come upon the whole world .. to test those who dwell on the earth .... Revelation 3:10

Show me where there is a second and a third coming of Christ

The rapture of the faithful in contrast to the Revelation of Jesus at His coming

Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18 ----- Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3 ----- Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52 ----- Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Earth not judged ----- Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51 ----- Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18 3 Mat 13:28-30 ----- Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1,

He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2 -----
He comes with His Church for judgement and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9, Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12 ----- Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52 ----- Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3, Rev 16:16, Zec 12:9-10

Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8 ----- No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21

Show me where it says that the anti-Christ is a Catholic Bishop

I never said he is ... no not the antichrist but the false prophet of Rev 13

In the midst of the Tribulation period there shall rise up two great world leaders .. one a political leader inspired by Satan himself .. the other religious leader to deceive the people with strong delusions and either lead them or force them to worship the anti-christ as the long expected world-ruler .. these two Satanic deceivers shall prevail upon all except those who risk all to boldly acknowledge their belief in the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world

I'm watching him closely ...... If the Final False Prophet spoken of in Revelation 13 is indeed Pope Francis .. then >> I'm expecting << all of the secular humanistic left / atheistic / false-religious-system / anti-christ / homosexual / and all the Biblical Harlot folk spoken about in Revelation 17 to glob-on to / applaud / accept and follow this guy .. He will literally rally them all together >> UNITY << will indeed be the theme ...... My real point of observation will be IF & WHEN Pope Francis gets on the same page with and starts pointing to and singing the praises of a particular (RISING STAR) powerful political figure ........ time will tell (written in 2013)

Show me where it says that the anti-Christ is a Catholic Bishop

Anti Christ = stands in the place of Christ ... < exactly what the Pope and Vatican claim

Show me where it says that Revelation is written for a 21st century audience

the answer to your last question also answers this one

Show me where it says that none of this has happened before ... the opening of the 7 seal / trumpet and bowl judgements

show me where the events of Revelation 6 thru 11 have happened before

[walkstall]

[Reverend]

the concept is displayed "caught up"

I understand the concept. I also understand that the verses you quote have nothing to do with one another. One is to the congregation at Thessalonica, talking about the second coming of Christ, the other is to the Church in Philadelphia, with a promise to keep them from an hour of "trial".

Here is what the very verse you also quote in 1 Cor. says about the "mystery" you claim is the rapture:

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

"At the last trump". What does that mean? It means the LAST TRUMPET. The last trumpet, the end of it all, turn out the lights, the party's over, it's all over but the shouting. This is no "pre-trib rapture", this is the end of time.

You need to READ and UNDERSTAND instead of trying to shoehorn your own beliefs into them. That's all I have time for now. I'll let you deal with those details before I speak to the rest of this stuff.

[dadman]

I understand the concept .. the verses you quote have nothing to do with one another

well no ... that is because they are describing two very different events

One is to the congregation at Thessalonica, talking about the second coming of Christ

no not really .... Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18 < this has nothing to do with the return of Jesus to establish his Kingdom on Earth ....
that does not happen until Rev 19

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord .. that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord ..
will not precede those who have fallen asleep .. for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout ..
with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God .. and the dead in Christ will rise first ..
then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air ..
and so we shall always be with the Lord .. therefore comfort one another with these words ..... 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

The other is to the Church in Philadelphia, with a promise to keep them from an hour of "trial"

Jesus: because you have kept the word of my perseverance .. I also will keep you from THE hour of testing .. THAT hour > which is about to come upon the whole world < .. to test those who dwell on the earth < [all mankind]

well first you need to quote the scripture correctly ... the word "THE" ... not "an" .... don't attempt to "shoehorn" the meaning to fit your own theology lol

Revelation 3:10 is speaking SPECIFICALLY of the Great Tribulation period .... sorry but the Children of God are not appointed to God's wrath ....

1 Thess 5:09 .. for God has not destined us for wrath .. but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ < thank you Jesus

Here is what the very verse you also quote in 1 Cor. says about the "mystery" you claim is the rapture:

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

"At the last trump". What does that mean? It means the LAST TRUMPET.  The last trumpet, the end of it all, turn out the lights, the party's over, it's all over but the shouting. This is no "pre-trib rapture", this is the end of time.

"this is the end of time" ... well no .... the 7th Trumpet announces and displays the 7 Bowls of the final Wrath of God ... THEN Jesus returns to establish his Kingdom Rev 19

The 7th Trumpet is NOT the Last trump. The only thing they have in common is that they are trumpets.
You might as well tie Aaron's trumpet into it, if you're going to pick and choose trumpets.
There are lots of trumpets in the bible. They:

• Regulate the journeys of the children of Israel.
• Call assemblies.
• Blow over the sacrifices on the feast day.
• Blow at all religious processions and ceremonies.
• Assemble the people to war.
• Sound for a memorial when the people went into battle.
• Proclaim kings.
• Give alarm in cases of danger.
• Announce miracles being performed

http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2011/09/last-trump-of-corinthians-and-7th.html

show me scripture referring to the Church after Revelation 4 (other than the RCC Rev 17 Harlot) yes indeed the Whore of Babylon ((Mother "church" / drunk w/ the blood of the Saints) < those coming to salvation DURING this period and killed) will be here during that time < and your defense of this Harlot does not help you at all .. sorry

Before God pours his wrath on this planet .... he pulls his children home (the tribulation period) we return WITH him to rule and reign WITH him for 1000 years .... and then the story continues

You need to READ and UNDERSTAND instead of trying to shoehorn your own beliefs into them lol

[dadman]

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY .............. When they (THE 2 WITNESSES) have finished their testimony .. the beast that comes up out of the abyss (ANTI-CHRIST) will make war with them .. and overcome them and kill them .. and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt .. where also their Lord was crucified .. those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for > THREE AND A HALF DAYS < .. and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb .. and > those who dwell on the earth < (GLOBAL MANKIND) will rejoice over them and celebrate .. and they will send gifts to one another .. because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth .. but after the three and a half days .. the breath of life from God came into them .. and they stood on their feet .. and great fear fell upon those who were watching them < (GLOBAL MANKIND) .. and they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them . . . come up here .. then they went up into heaven in the cloud .. and their enemies < (GLOBAL MANKIND) watched them .. and in that hour there was a great earthquake .. and a tenth of the city fell .. seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake .. and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven ........ Revelation 11:7-13

QUESTION = how long has it been possible for > those who dwell on the earth < (GLOBAL MANKIND)
to see/watch an event in a paticular place concerning two men on the planet within the space of three and a half days ?? ... hmmmm ???  audio file XXXXXXXXXXXX added

Please obtain permission to promote your site before doing so.

[Reverend]

no not really .... Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18 < this has nothing to do with the return of Jesus to establish his Kingdom on Earth ....
that does not happen until Rev 19

Prove it, prove all of it. And I don't mean by repeating the same thing over and over again, I mean by sound Biblical exegesis, if you know what that is, which I doubt.

well first you need to quote the scripture correctly ... the word "THE" ... not "an" .... don't attempt to "shoehorn" the meaning to fit your own theology lol

I read it in the Greek, THE hour is just an hour, or a period of time, or a time when something is to happen. It can happen any time and has already happened, read your Church history to see the persecution of the Church in the 1st century. I mean you DO at least know that most of the Apostles were martyred, don't you? This is not to mention the Church fathers who were tortured and killed for their beliefs, like Polycarp.

Revelation 3:10 is speaking SPECIFICALLY of the Great Tribulation period ....

Nope, it's not, in the Greek it's just an hour.

show me scripture referring to the Church after Revelation 4

Do you know what Rev. 4 really is? Take a wild guess.

other than the RCC Rev 17 Harlot) yes indeed the Whore of Babylon ((Mother "church" / drunk w/ the blood of the Saints) < those coming to salvation DURING this period and killed) will be here during that time < and your defense of this Harlot does not help you at all .. sorry

You are a sick, sick, sick individual. The "whore of Babylon" is ancient Pagan Rome, the history speaks for itself. People like you have been telling us the end of the world is coming for the past 100+ years, but I have news for you - it's going to get much, much worse, and you are going to be surprised when you end up smack dab in the "tribulation" you thought you were going to escape.

[dadman]

Prove it prove all of it And I don't mean by repeatin tha same thang over n' over again n' again n' again I mean by sound Biblical exegesis if you know what tha frack dat is which I doubt I read it up in tha Greek THE minute is just a minute or a period of time or a time when suttin' is ta happen It can happen any time n' has already happened read yo' Church history ta peep tha persecution of tha Church up in tha 1st century I mean you do at least know dat most of tha Apostlez was martyred dont you This aint ta mention tha Church fathers whoz ass was tortured n' capped fo' they beliefs like Polycarp Nope it aint up in tha Greek itz just a minute do you know what tha frack Rev 4 straight-up is take a wild guess Yo ass be a sick sick sick individual Da whore of Babylon be ancient Pagan Rome tha history speaks fo' itself Muthafrackas like you done been spittin some lyrics ta our asses tha end of tha ghetto is comin fo' tha past 100+ muthafrackn years but I have shizzle fo' you itz goin ta git much much worse n' yo ass is goin ta be surprised when you end up smack dab up in tha tribulation you thought you was goin ta escape n stuff

later "reverend" lol ....
I don't waste time with those of clenched fists and gnashing teeth ...
better things to do .. like read the book of Revelation < it's there for a reason ... pEaCeoUt dUdE :) be blessed

[Solar]

Prove it prove all of it And I don't mean by repeatin tha same thang over n' over again n' again n' again I mean by sound Biblical exegesis if you know what tha frack dat is which I doubt I read it up in tha Greek THE minute is just a minute or a period of time or a time when suttin' is ta happen It can happen any time n' has already happened read yo' Church history ta peep tha persecution of tha Church up in tha 1st century I mean you do at least know dat most of tha Apostlez was martyred dont you This aint ta mention tha Church fathers whoz ass was tortured n' capped fo' they beliefs like Polycarp Nope it aint up in tha Greek itz just a minute do you know what tha frack Rev 4 straight-up is take a wild guess Yo ass be a sick sick sick individual Da whore of Babylon be ancient Pagan Rome tha history speaks fo' itself Muthafrackas like you done been spittin some lyrics ta our asses tha end of tha ghetto is comin fo' tha past 100+ muthafrackn years but I have shizzle fo' you itz goin ta git much much worse n' yo ass is goin ta be surprised when you end up smack dab up in tha tribulation you thought you was goin ta escape n stuff

later "reverend" lol ....
I don't waste time with those of clenched fists and gnashing teeth ...
better things to do .. like read the book of Revelation < it's there for a reason ... pEaCeoUt dUdE :) be blessed

Sorry, you lost with that lousy excuse for a response.
That came off as if some punk in da hood with the experience and worldly exposure of 20 years on the same block, was preaching to a well seasoned world traveler.

I'm not trying to be insulting, you just need to know how that came off to the readers of this forum.
There's a reason people don't text or use ghetto on this forum, it exposes ones intellectual failures with their every post.

[walkstall]

Prove it prove all of it And I don't mean by repeatin tha same thang over n' over again n' again n' again I mean by sound Biblical exegesis if you know what tha frack dat is which I doubt I read it up in tha Greek THE minute is just a minute or a period of time or a time when suttin' is ta happen It can happen any time n' has already happened read yo' Church history ta peep tha persecution of tha Church up in tha 1st century I mean you do at least know dat most of tha Apostlez was martyred dont you This aint ta mention tha Church fathers whoz ass was tortured n' capped fo' they beliefs like Polycarp Nope it aint up in tha Greek itz just a minute do you know what tha frack Rev 4 straight-up is take a wild guess Yo ass be a sick sick sick individual Da whore of Babylon be ancient Pagan Rome tha history speaks fo' itself Muthafrackas like you done been spittin some lyrics ta our asses tha end of tha ghetto is comin fo' tha past 100+ muthafrackn years but I have shizzle fo' you itz goin ta git much much worse n' yo ass is goin ta be surprised when you end up smack dab up in tha tribulation you thought you was goin ta escape n stuff

later "reverend" lol ....
I don't waste time with those of clenched fists and gnashing teeth ...
better things to do .. like read the book of Revelation < it's there for a reason ... pEaCeoUt dUdE :) be blessed

dadman your a big boy use the quote function, not the copy and paste.

[dadman]

dadman your a big boy use the quote function, not the copy and paste.

so .... how many here believe Revelation 17  has already taken place ?

[walkstall]

so .... how many here believe Revelation 17 has already taken place ?

Myself I don't care if it has or not.  When it come time for the end it will come.  God did not intend for us to know everything before it happens.  If so I think it would take a lot of fun out of life.   

[dadman]

Myself I don't care if it has or not.  When it come time for the end it will come.  God did not intend for us to know everything before it happens.  If so I think it would take a lot of fun out of life.

Wow !! .. you're a real idiot aren't you .......... your ignorance has BANNED you

[walkstall]

Wow !! .. you're a real idiot aren't you .......... your ignorance has BANNED you

Hmm... Matthew 7:1 Judge not that ye be not judged, or something like that. 

[kroz]

This is too bad.

I've been following this thread with interest and was hoping for a better ending.

I am familiar with both sides of this argument and was enjoying the banter.

I will make two observations.

1) Always be suspicious of anyone designating themselves as "Reverend".  We all have feet of clay and there are none Reverend except God Himself. 

Someone calling themselves Reverend on this forum is trying to intimidate the reader.

2) I have studied both sides of this argument extensively.  There are wise men of great theological renown on either side.  I do not condemn any of them on their sincere belief and commitment to truth.  I have great respect for those on both sides.  Both sides have strengths and weaknesses.

However, theologically I am convinced that Dadman is fundamentally correct.  I've spent many years on both sides of this debate but cannot embrace the concept that all prophecy has been fulfilled already.  It defies logical exegetics.