Those condescending atheists

Started by marksch19, October 14, 2012, 09:10:06 PM

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Skeptic

Quote from: Murph on January 29, 2013, 06:22:09 PM
Isn't being a militant atheist somewhat hypocritical? I'm just kinda wondering if there is some sort of obligation to spread the faith, or lack therof among atheists.

We are "militant" because Christians force us to. In my local community we have had issues with Christian teachers trying to use the science classrooms to teach creationism instead of science, and we also have politicians trying to pass laws based on their religious morality. What are we supposed to do in the face of that? Stay quiet and hope they will go away?

No! Atheists have been quiet for far too long. If Christians can come knock on my door every Saturday to tell me "Have you heard the good news? God Loves you," or my favorite..."You don't believe in God? You are an immoral person and will burn in hell for eternity." should I just stay quiet because me saying I don't believe in God offends them? I don't think so. If they think they can go around throwing God in everyone's faces and telling strangers they don't know how they will burn in hell, then I refuse to stay quiet because me not believing in their ancient fiction books might possibly upset them.

It's a two way street here. You can't possibly expect to go around throwing God in everyone's faces without expecting someone to tell you to stop or back off because they don't believe in whatever God you happen to believe.
Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily.

Mountainshield

Quote from: Skeptic on March 15, 2013, 09:40:28 PM
We are "militant" because Christians force us to. In my local community we have had issues with Christian teachers trying to use the science classrooms to teach creationism instead of science, and we also have politicians trying to pass laws based on their religious morality. What are we supposed to do in the face of that? Stay quiet and hope they will go away?

No! Atheists have been quiet for far too long. If Christians can come knock on my door every Saturday to tell me "Have you heard the good news? God Loves you," or my favorite..."You don't believe in God? You are an immoral person and will burn in hell for eternity." should I just stay quiet because me saying I don't believe in God offends them? I don't think so. If they think they can go around throwing God in everyone's faces and telling strangers they don't know how they will burn in hell, then I refuse to stay quiet because me not believing in their ancient fiction books might possibly upset them.

It's a two way street here. You can't possibly expect to go around throwing God in everyone's faces without expecting someone to tell you to stop or back off because they don't believe in whatever God you happen to believe.

I love how you completely miss the obvious civilized and intelligent alternative which is too be the stronger man and don't be so damn sensitive that someone knocks on your door to tell you something or that some politicians want to pass universally acceptable moral laws  :laugh:

anti-American

Quote from: Mountainshield on March 12, 2013, 11:03:01 AM
Sorry for not answering before but I have been really busy with work. To the above posts I agree with Solar about your false generalization and application of your personal experience with christian doctrine, education and belief.

I am likewise sorry for my delay--I'm really busy with school. If there is some way to adequately explain why I should accept as true the prima facie absurd dogma that I pointed out, let me know. Maybe Catholic school teachers haven't the faintest clue about Christianity. I'm open to that idea and you could prove it by putting forth compelling arguments that nobody in my life has been competent or intelligent enough to come up with so far.

Quote from: Mountainshield on March 12, 2013, 11:03:01 AMThe Christian God can and is logically proven through christian apolegetics, and every atheist argument against christian apolegetic either misunderstand the argument or come with straw men arguments. You have to be specific, what aspect of the existence of Christian God do you find that you are unable to understand logically?

The notion that God is all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful is illogical. The children that have died painful deaths from disease and starvation while I am writing this are a good example of how God is either not all-loving or not all-powerful. The facts make it impossible for God to be both all-loving and all-powerful. The notion that God is all powerful in isolation is absurd. Can God kill himself? Also, as I have previously explained, the whole "Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins" story is insane and illogical.

Quote from: Mountainshield on March 12, 2013, 11:03:01 AMYour argument about coming into existence is a logical false sentence. I'm arguing that God never had a beginning because God exist outside of time and the whole question of coming into existence is non applicable because the premise for something to come into existence does not apply to God due to the fact that it is a force that exist outside time and matter.

You are asserting that something that never came into existence nonetheless exists. That is perplexing to me. In any event, the fact that God allegedly exists "outside of time" does not mean that "he" does not need a creator under the very reasoning that "proves" that "he" must exist in the first place. The belief that God is necessary because human beings and a universe so relatively hospitable to life surely could not have come about "randomly." It isn't about the fact that the universe has an identifiable beginning, it is about the complexity of humans and the chances of a universe hospitable to life. Again, if humans are so complex and amazing that we need a creator, then surely God, who is infinitely more amazing, must also need a creator of a caliber sufficient to create "him."

taxed

Quote from: Skeptic on October 19, 2012, 04:20:41 AM
Atheism does not equal Communism. Atheism simply means: A lack of belief in anything supernatural.

Where do you draw the line between physics/nature you can't explain, and the supernatural?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Skeptic on October 19, 2012, 05:25:47 PM
My morality is based on a simple precept: Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do to you. Therefore, I don't murder, I don't rape, I don't steal.

Could you sleep at night if you did something terrible to someone?  Why not? (I assume you couldn't)...
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 05, 2012, 02:05:55 PM
Isn't it a very disturbing implication that humans can only do good through the carrot and the stick?

This is where young atheists begin to go off the rails.  Why would you not do harm to someone?
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taxed

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 11, 2012, 10:44:45 AM

Rape is wrong because it causes suffering.  Suffering being bad is relatively unprovable.  But rape is not bad because it is rape; it's bad because it has negative consequences.  This logic is fine, because the premise ("suffering is bad") is hardly one anyone would disagree with.
This ties into my previous post to you.  Could you sleep at night, and go about your day the next day if you did something terrible to someone, like rape?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: American on March 04, 2013, 10:58:53 AM
God, does not make sense logically. Although I understand why people say there must be some intelligent designer, their own premises actually defeat their conclusion. The argument is basically as follows:

Humans are so amazing and complex that it is absurd to think that time and random events could have created them. The same could also be said of the entire universe. Therefore, there must have been an intelligent creator that purposefully created the universe and life. That creator is God.

But who made God? The problem is that God has the same qualities--extended to infinity--that make "him" necessary to exist in the first place. In other words, if there needs to be an intelligent creator in order for a human being to exist then surely there must be an intelligent creator for God to exist. If a human can't just exist without being created then certainly God, being even more complex and amazing, cannot. Religious people have a variety of ways to try to deal with the "who made God" question but they simply cannot answer it.

Nor can atheists determine how the universe was created.  You're back to square one.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Mountainshield on March 05, 2013, 06:54:29 AM
It's not an alleged impossibility, its a mathematical fact. I would refer you to actually read Signature in the Cell if this is what you actually believe, because its clear you don't know the arguments which you are pretending to argue against. I don't have all the facts memorized and as stated earlier, please read the books of the opposition instead of just reading the books that validate your already embraced view. Thats what I did, and it changed my life. Both politically and socially.

There is no data whatsoever that supports multiverse theory, but from observable data we know the universe had a beginning and we know there is one universe.

The force which we call God does not need to ever have been created because it exist outside of time, it had no beginning and will have no end because it is timeless.
And you're defeating your own premise.  Let's figure out gravity and some basic unexplainables we experience every day before we rule out stuff we really don't know about.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Skeptic on March 15, 2013, 09:40:28 PM
We are "militant" because Christians force us to. In my local community we have had issues with Christian teachers trying to use the science classrooms to teach creationism instead of science, and we also have politicians trying to pass laws based on their religious morality. What are we supposed to do in the face of that? Stay quiet and hope they will go away?

No! Atheists have been quiet for far too long. If Christians can come knock on my door every Saturday to tell me "Have you heard the good news? God Loves you," or my favorite..."You don't believe in God? You are an immoral person and will burn in hell for eternity." should I just stay quiet because me saying I don't believe in God offends them? I don't think so. If they think they can go around throwing God in everyone's faces and telling strangers they don't know how they will burn in hell, then I refuse to stay quiet because me not believing in their ancient fiction books might possibly upset them.

It's a two way street here. You can't possibly expect to go around throwing God in everyone's faces without expecting someone to tell you to stop or back off because they don't believe in whatever God you happen to believe.

It sounds like your perspectives on theology have been strongly influenced by the degrees of how others apply their beliefs.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

anti-American

Quote from: taxed on March 20, 2013, 10:08:09 PM
Nor can atheists determine how the universe was created.  You're back to square one.

Accepting as true the assertion that atheists cannot determine how the universe was "created" and assuming it was "created," Christians are in even more of a pickle. While atheists cannot explain how the universe was created, Christians cannot explain how God was created. If we are to judge each philosophy by the magnitude of the mystery left unsolved, Christianity loses.

Christians have not figured it all out by invoking an entity capable of creating the universe and everything therein because they can't explain said entity. Mentally inventing a force capable of producing the mysterious situation you are trying to explain is not creative, it is tautological.

taxed

Quote from: American on March 21, 2013, 09:13:22 PM
Accepting as true the assertion that atheists cannot determine how the universe was "created" and assuming it was "created," Christians are in even more of a pickle. While atheists cannot explain how the universe was created, Christians cannot explain how God was created. If we are to judge each philosophy by the magnitude of the mystery left unsolved, Christianity loses.
Christians are covered, because they "have faith". 

Quote
Christians have not figured it all out by invoking an entity capable of creating the universe and everything therein because they can't explain said entity.
Nor can you argue against it.  You're still back to square one.

Quote
Mentally inventing a force capable of producing the mysterious situation you are trying to explain is not creative, it is tautological.
No more ridiculous than theories like the theory of evolution.
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anti-American

Quote from: taxed on March 22, 2013, 04:02:50 PM
Christians are covered, because they "have faith".

What kind of answer is that? You didn't address my assertion, which is that Christian dogma contains a larger unsolvable mystery than would otherwise exist. If the explanatory power of a worldview such as Christianity or Atheism is what is important in evaluating which worldview is "better" than the other and that explanatory power is measured by the magnitude of the unsolvable mystery under each worldview then Atheism is "better" than Christianity.

Quote from: taxed on March 22, 2013, 04:02:50 PM
Quote from: American on March 21, 2013, 09:13:22 PMChristians have not figured it all out by invoking an entity capable of creating the universe and everything therein because they can't explain said entity. Mentally inventing a force capable of producing the mysterious situation you are trying to explain is not creative, it is tautological.

Nor can you argue against it.  You're still back to square one.

You can't "argue against" my baseless belief ("faith") that there is a unicorn-dragon hybrid that lives in my backyard. There are a variety of other exceedingly silly beliefs that cannot be disproved, mainly for reasons related to the problems inherent with attempting to disprove a negative. One who asserts a fanciful claim to explain a mystery, especially if the claim is tautological to the mystery it seeks to explain, bears the burden of proving that his prima facie ridiculous conclusion has some basis in reality. Those who don't blindly believe silly beliefs do not bear the burden to disprove such assertions.

Quote from: taxed on March 22, 2013, 04:02:50 PMNo more ridiculous than theories like the theory of evolution.

The theory of evolution is a real theory that is scientifically strong. Religious belief based on nothing but "faith" and, in some cases, misguided logic, is hardly a theory in the scientific sense of the word.

JustKari

Why in the world would you ever believe in a God who could be explained?  The whole POINT of faith is that you have to believe without seeing, if there is proof, it is not faith.  God was not created, He has always been and always will be, do not try to fit God in your tiny box you call logic, He will never fit.  Many things can not be explained logically, yet they still exist.

Personally, I am glad that my God defies logic, a logical, boring, god that maintained the tiny parameters that Atheists would allow him, would be no God at all. 

Solar

Quote from: American on March 22, 2013, 07:56:07 PM
What kind of answer is that? You didn't address my assertion, which is that Christian dogma contains a larger unsolvable mystery than would otherwise exist. If the explanatory power of a worldview such as Christianity or Atheism is what is important in evaluating which worldview is "better" than the other and that explanatory power is measured by the magnitude of the unsolvable mystery under each worldview then Atheism is "better" than Christianity.

Nor can you argue against it.  You're still back to square one.

You can't "argue against" my baseless belief ("faith") that there is a unicorn-dragon hybrid that lives in my backyard. There are a variety of other exceedingly silly beliefs that cannot be disproved, mainly for reasons related to the problems inherent with attempting to disprove a negative. One who asserts a fanciful claim to explain a mystery, especially if the claim is tautological to the mystery it seeks to explain, bears the burden of proving that his prima facie ridiculous conclusion has some basis in reality. Those who don't blindly believe silly beliefs do not bear the burden to disprove such assertions.

The theory of evolution is a real theory that is scientifically strong. Religious belief based on nothing but "faith" and, in some cases, misguided logic, is hardly a theory in the scientific sense of the word.
Out of curiosity, have you any belief, faith, any spiritual thought in the least?
Or have you concluded there is nothing, you die, and that's it, poof, it's all over and your soul ceases to exist?
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