The problem with the modern conservative movement, Christianists.

[Knox1983]

You might be wondering what a Christianist is. It is a word I heard someone else once use, I have borrowed it, and have not heard it anywhere else.

Regardless of etymology,  the reason Christianists are a problem is they have wholesale infiltrated the Republican party,  the only remotely conservative party, and have made their mission to piss off and drive away rational people, thusly tarnishing the Republican party.

The rational people of this world,  even rational Christians, such as myself, don't want politicians to discuss abortion, teaching creationism in school,  freaking out about equal rights for ALL Americans,  and  constantly acting as if the white christian is being persecuted around the nation.

I realize that those amongst us who are extreme and radical in their christianity,  you may even really believe the earth is 6000 years old.  But the vast majority of Americans do not share your beliefs. You make all republicans look bad. You have driven rational people who we could get in our tent run far far away.

I'm a Christian,  I dislike abortion,  but it is settled law. Not going to change no matter how many presidents or senators we elect.

I think homosexuality is a sin. But I can find no extra biblical reasons to oppose the demand of homosexuals to the same benefits the government grants to heterosexual Americans through marriage. The bible has no place in American public policy, and insisting it does only serves to drive people away from us,  giving power to those hostile to us,  instead of those who share our beliefs, but aren't vocal and extreme about them.

Advocating for biblical science to be taught in schools offends most people. Not because the bible is offensive,  but because ignorance is. The earth was not made in 6 days, evolution is demonstrable, and the earth is 4.49 billion years older than the extreme among us insist it is. Teach the kids reality so our nation can once again lead in math and science.

In short, you're handing our country to the leftist atheist anti christians by being so demanding in the religious social agenda you want. It is counter productive.  Your actions are creating the opposite of your goals. Please wake up and see this so we can save conservative ideas, fiscal conservative ideas get tied in with your christian social agenda and thrown out with the bath water.

Forget that stuff for now, let's get out country back on track financially and then worry about the petty stuff.

[walkstall]

You might be wondering what a Christianist is. It is a word I heard someone else once use, I have borrowed it, and have not heard it anywhere else.

Regardless of etymology,  the reason Christianists are a problem is they have wholesale infiltrated the Republican party,  the only remotely conservative party, and have made their mission to piss off and drive away rational people, thusly tarnishing the Republican party.

The rational people of this world,  even rational Christians, such as myself, don't want politicians to discuss abortion, teaching creationism in school,  freaking out about equal rights for ALL Americans,  and  constantly acting as if the white christian is being persecuted around the nation.

I realize that those amongst us who are extreme and radical in their christianity,  you may even really believe the earth is 6000 years old.  But the vast majority of Americans do not share your beliefs. You make all republicans look bad. You have driven rational people who we could get in our tent run far far away.

I'm a Christian,  I dislike abortion,  but it is settled law. Not going to change no matter how many presidents or senators we elect.

I think homosexuality is a sin. But I can find no extra biblical reasons to oppose the demand of homosexuals to the same benefits the government grants to heterosexual Americans through marriage. The bible has no place in American public policy, and insisting it does only serves to drive people away from us,  giving power to those hostile to us,  instead of those who share our beliefs, but aren't vocal and extreme about them.

Advocating for biblical science to be taught in schools offends most people. Not because the bible is offensive,  but because ignorance is. The earth was not made in 6 days, evolution is demonstrable, and the earth is 4.49 billion years older than the extreme among us insist it is. Teach the kids reality so our nation can once again lead in math and science.

In short, you're handing our country to the leftist atheist anti christians by being so demanding in the religious social agenda you want. It is counter productive.  Your actions are creating the opposite of your goals. Please wake up and see this so we can save conservative ideas, fiscal conservative ideas get tied in with your christian social agenda and thrown out with the bath water.

Forget that stuff for now, let's get out country back on track financially and then worry about the petty stuff.

I may be wrong, but I do not find God "petty stuff".  But that just my way of thinking. 

[Knox1983]

No one is suggesting that God is petty.

Whether or not schools teach creation in place of established reality is petty.

Taxing the public for the aim of education only to teach things comparable to flat earth theory is absurd.

I've no problem reconciling my christian faith with observable and demonstrable falsehoods within the dogma of my faith.

Ask the ostrich how effective the head in the sand defense is.

Teach your child what you wish at home,  leave what is taught in public spheres to facts that are observable, predictable,  and reliable.

God is not petty,  imposing your beliefs on others is, particularly when the outcome is the opposite of your own goals.

[supsalemgr]

No one is suggesting that God is petty.

Whether or not schools teach creation in place of established reality is petty.

Taxing the public for the aim of education only to teach things comparable to flat earth theory is absurd.

I've no problem reconciling my christian faith with observable and demonstrable falsehoods within the dogma of my faith.

Ask the ostrich how effective the head in the sand defense is.

Teach your child what you wish at home,  leave what is taught in public spheres to facts that are observable, predictable,  and reliable.

God is not petty,  imposing your beliefs on others is, particularly when the outcome is the opposite of your own goals.

Welcome to the forum.

You make many sound points. I too believe that too many folks use their religion to further their political agenda. However, this is not limited to the Christian faith. The issue I have with the left when it comes to Christians is that they wish to remove any mention or thought of the religion. All of these so tolerant people have no tolerance for Christians.

[Knox1983]

They do,  actually.  What they refuse to tolerate is public supported expressions of that christianity.  I know of no lib/prog public figure who has ever advocated stopping you from going to church, worshipping in your home, or even praying over your food at a restaurant.

What they don't tolerate is the prayer in Jesus' name lead by the school principal over the school intercom system like when I was a kid,  I'm only 31 so it wasn't that long ago. 

You see having the forced prayer at school removed as persecution. I see it as being able to send your kids to school without having them subjected to religion. 

If you can point to me a politician, or a law in this country that prohibits you from going to church,  worship in your home, or even threatens arrest or any penalty for any aspect of your christianity I'll consider changing my mind. But christians aren't persecuted in this county,  they persecute.

I may not be talking about "you" but only the extremists among us who only vote on abortion, ending it. If you don't like abortion,  then don't have one. But the anti abortion crowd is costing us votes on a topic we can't change. 

The Christianists are the racists in the party. 

[supsalemgr]

They do,  actually.  What they refuse to tolerate is public supported expressions of that christianity.  I know of no lib/prog public figure who has ever advocated stopping you from going to church, worshipping in your home, or even praying over your food at a restaurant.

What they don't tolerate is the prayer in Jesus' name lead by the school principal over the school intercom system like when I was a kid,  I'm only 31 so it wasn't that long ago. 

You see having the forced prayer at school removed as persecution. I see it as being able to send your kids to school without having them subjected to religion. 

If you can point to me a politician, or a law in this country that prohibits you from going to church,  worship in your home, or even threatens arrest or any penalty for any aspect of your christianity I'll consider changing my mind. But christians aren't persecuted in this county,  they persecute.

I may not be talking about "you" but only the extremists among us who only vote on abortion, ending it. If you don't like abortion,  then don't have one. But the anti abortion crowd is costing us votes on a topic we can't change. 

The Christianists are the racists in the party.

Please explain that last comment. How did racism get into this conversation?

[Knox1983]

In my experience,  the people who want to kill abortion doctors are the same people who are racist.

True Christians aren't political. Jesus said many things about this.  Give to ceaser what is his,  our kingdom is not of this world.

This vocal politically active christians were Dixiecrats in the past.  It is well documented they flipped to the Republican party with Goldwater's southern strategy in 68, code words like bussing and all. These people started voting republican,  they didn't get rid of their racism.

[supsalemgr]

In my experience,  the people who want to kill abortion doctors are the same people who are racist.

Two different subjects and trying to link them is not logical.

True Christians aren't political. Jesus said many things about this.  Give to ceaser what is his,  our kingdom is not of this world.

Once again, apples and oranges. One can be a Christian and involved with politics as political involvement is also responsibility of good citizenship.

This vocal politically active christians were Dixiecrats in the past.  It is well documented they flipped to the Republican party with Goldwater's southern strategy in 68, code words like bussing and all. These people started voting republican,  they didn't get rid of their racism.

It is obvious you attempt to generalize everything. I personally am a Christian I am a life long southerner and not racist. I am also very interested in politics and how it affects our country. You sir, have effectively labeled me a racist, a hypocrite, and a non-believer because I am involved with the goings on of out country.

[taxed]

You might be wondering what a Christianist is.

Not really.

It is a word I heard someone else once use, I have borrowed it, and have not heard it anywhere else.

Parroting is all the rage with libs.

Regardless of etymology,  the reason Christianists are a problem is they have wholesale infiltrated the Republican party,  the only remotely conservative party, and have made their mission to piss off and drive away rational people, thusly tarnishing the Republican party.

Huh?

The rational people of this world,  even rational Christians, such as myself, don't want politicians to discuss abortion, teaching creationism in school,  freaking out about equal rights for ALL Americans,  and  constantly acting as if the white christian is being persecuted around the nation.

Abortion is murder.  Therefore, there needs to be laws on the issue.  Regarding creationism vs. evolution, that needs to be determined by the local community.

I realize that those amongst us who are extreme and radical in their christianity,  you may even really believe the earth is 6000 years old.  But the vast majority of Americans do not share your beliefs.

What was that?

You make all republicans look bad.

No they don't.  There is nothing wrong with the deeply religious Christians.

You have driven rational people who we could get in our tent run far far away.

What issues are "driving rational people away"?

I'm a Christian,

Sure you are.  I'm a Chinese muslim Buddhist.

  I dislike abortion,

Such strong feelings.

  but it is settled law. Not going to change no matter how many presidents or senators we elect.

Then why are libs trying to change it?

I think homosexuality is a sin. But I can find no extra biblical reasons to oppose the demand of homosexuals to the same benefits the government grants to heterosexual Americans through marriage.

What benefits are these?

The bible has no place in American public policy, and insisting it does only serves to drive people away from us,  giving power to those hostile to us,  instead of those who share our beliefs, but aren't vocal and extreme about them.

Incorrect.  You have a combination of youth and low intellect, preventing you from thinking.

Advocating for biblical science to be taught in schools offends most people.

That's a local thing, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.

Not because the bible is offensive,  but because ignorance is. The earth was not made in 6 days,

evolution is demonstrable,

Incorrect.  There are way too many holes to even take it seriously.

and the earth is 4.49 billion years older than the extreme among us insist it is.

You know how old the Earth is?  That's amazing!  How did you find out?

Teach the kids reality so our nation can once again lead in math and science.

To be clear, you're supporting less religious families, and a culture of increased abortions, which will yield more education?

In short, you're handing our country to the leftist atheist anti christians by being so demanding in the religious social agenda you want. It is counter productive.  Your actions are creating the opposite of your goals. Please wake up and see this so we can save conservative ideas, fiscal conservative ideas get tied in with your christian social agenda and thrown out with the bath water.

Non-Christians are welcome to be Republicans as well.

Forget that stuff for now, let's get out country back on track financially and then worry about the petty stuff.

Sounds good.  Let's start by eliminating all public funding for schools, eliminating all funding for abortions, and decreasing welfare to about zero.

[Knox1983]

I agree, abortion is murder in my eyes also. But, due to hundreds of years of established legal rules, the Roe v Wade decision has made abortion legal. One of several forms of murder having protected legal status. The view a candidate to any office at the national level has on abortion is irrelevant.  There is nothing they can do to change it. It is stupid to have as a prerequisite for a candidate that he be opposed to a woman's right to choose. It alienates vast amounts of potential supporters, over an issue he will be impotent to change.

As to creationism vs evolution, that is truly apples and oranges.  To me they are not mutually exclusive.  We have solid evidence of evolution. Go to any hospital in America and there are patients suffering from bacterial infections which we have difficulty treating with the most potent antibiotics.

60 years ago there was hardly any bacteria that could stand up to penicillin.  Today, penicillin is an outdated and useless antibiotic.  Why? Because the bacteria evolved.

The gaps are only processes we cannot explain.  But the story is complete. Life evolves. All life on earth is so similar genetically.  Humans and oak trees share more DNA in common than they have different. All life share so many similar attributes that having a common ancestor is all but assured.


The church stood in the way of science when scientists proved that the earth went round the sun,  not the sun round the earth. They threatened death and torture to get the men to recant their findings. 

Eventually the evidence was true strong to deny. That is where we are with things like evolution,  the age of the earth,  and frankly climate change. 

You can deny them all you want, but doing so, and demanding acceptance of that ignorance is a bad thing. We can't teach our children that earth is 6000 years old, that all life and matter was created in 6 days,  and that God controls the weather.  Doing so will make a whole generation retarded in the disciplines of science, physics, and other areas of import.

If you want to be ignorant, fine,  but when you use the Republican party to force it on other people's children, those other people vote for Democrats.

[taxed]

I agree, abortion is murder in my eyes also. But, due to hundreds of years of established legal rules, the Roe v Wade decision has made abortion legal.

Then, what is your point?

One of several forms of murder having protected legal status. The view a candidate to any office at the national level has on abortion is irrelevant.  There is nothing they can do to change it. It is stupid to have as a prerequisite for a candidate that he be opposed to a woman's right to choose. It alienates vast amounts of potential supporters, over an issue he will be impotent to change.

Why do you think the support of abortion is shared by the majority?  You will contradict yourself, very easily, and support us normal people, if you will then deny those same people would support late term abortion.

As to creationism vs evolution, that is truly apples and oranges.  To me they are not mutually exclusive.  We have solid evidence of evolution. Go to any hospital in America and there are patients suffering from bacterial infections which we have difficulty treating with the most potent antibiotics.

Are you saying it is natural for humans to try and survive?

60 years ago there was hardly any bacteria that could stand up to penicillin.  Today, penicillin is an outdated and useless antibiotic.  Why? Because the bacteria evolved.

That's great.  Not sure you know what you're trying to argue, but keep going...

The gaps are only processes we cannot explain.

It's not only the gaps.

  But the story is complete. Life evolves. All life on earth is so similar genetically.  Humans and oak trees share more DNA in common than they have different. All life share so many similar attributes that having a common ancestor is all but assured.

Are you saying we're the only life in the universe to have evolved from monkeys?  I need you to take the intellect up a notch for me, please.  Every time I try and give you young atheists fresh from your anti-Christian Marxist academic indoctrination a chance, you severely let me down.  Please don't bore me.

The church stood in the way of science when scientists proved that the earth went round the sun,  not the sun round the earth. They threatened death and torture to get the men to recant their findings.

And your relevant point?
 

Eventually the evidence was true strong to deny. That is where we are with things like evolution,  the age of the earth,  and frankly climate change.

Sorry.  I don't believe in fairy tales like man made climate change.  I leave evolution and AGW to the flat-earth, anti-science academic research crowd. 

You can deny them all you want,

It's not me. It's my propensity to take an incoming information stream and apply cerebral processing power to it, filtering out the crap.  You wanting to believe that the BS you have been spoon-fed doesn't mean it's real.  When I was 4 or 5, I used to believe in Santa Claus, so I understand your unwillingness to adopt reality.  You should open your mind and understand that science is your friend.

but doing so, and demanding acceptance of that ignorance is a bad thing. We can't teach our children that earth is 6000 years old, that all life and matter was created in 6 days,  and that God controls the weather.  Doing so will make a whole generation retarded in the disciplines of science, physics, and other areas of import.

You don't know how old the Earth is, so please quit pretending like you do.

If you want to be ignorant, fine,  but when you use the Republican party to force it on other people's children, those other people vote for Democrats.

You have yet to make a case for why our society should become dumb so we can appease stupid liberals.

[Knox1983]

My point about abortion is we've lost. It's not something that we can pass laws on and end. It's like whining because you lost a football game.  It's over.

All you can do about abortion now is work on the education and support end to hopefully persuade people not to choose that option.

We've gotten off on a tangent. I am a Christian,  I would prefer my elected representatives also be.

I do not want them, however, to legislate Biblical policy. We can leave religion out of public policy.  The "moral majority" crowd is mostly the new team under the Republican tent.  They've been vocal and have driven many moderate people to vote for the Democrats.

They have sacrificed fiscal conservative progress we were making by running many people away from republicans because of the handful of issues they strongly care about.

With respect to gay marriage,  I'd like to oppose it, I just can't. I've yet to hear an intelligent argument against gay marriage.  It's all either sin or eww.

I fully believe climate change is real. I fully believe the climate scientists don't have all of their facts straight.  But there is ample evidence,  it's just not 100% nailed down. Of the people who dedicate their career to studying such things, 97% of them agree.

[walkstall]

My point about abortion is we've lost. It's not something that we can pass laws on and end. It's like whining because you lost a football game.  It's over.

All you can do about abortion now is work on the education and support end to hopefully persuade people not to choose that option.

We've gotten off on a tangent. I am a Christian,  I would prefer my elected representatives also be.

I do not want them, however, to legislate Biblical policy. We can leave religion out of public policy.  The "moral majority" crowd is mostly the new team under the Republican tent.  They've been vocal and have driven many moderate people to vote for the Democrats.

They have sacrificed fiscal conservative progress we were making by running many people away from republicans because of the handful of issues they strongly care about.

With respect to gay marriage,  I'd like to oppose it, I just can't. I've yet to hear an intelligent argument against gay marriage.  It's all either sin or eww.

I fully believe climate change is real. I fully believe the climate scientists don't have all of their facts straight.  But there is ample evidence,  it's just not 100% nailed down. Of the people who dedicate their career to studying such things, 97% of them agree.

Son your dead, you may as well roll over and let the government keep stick it to you. 

[taxed]

My point about abortion is we've lost.

Libs want late term and less restriction on abortion.  Keeping those idiots at bay is a full time job that is never over.

It's not something that we can pass laws on and end. It's like whining because you lost a football game.  It's over.

Again, it isn't over.  If left up to libs, they'd give abortions at Wal-Mart.

All you can do about abortion now is work on the education and support end to hopefully persuade people not to choose that option.

Incorrect.  We can cultivate a society that respects life and shame those that don't.

We've gotten off on a tangent. I am a Christian,  I would prefer my elected representatives also be.

I'm not a Christian.  Why do I support them more than you?

I do not want them, however, to legislate Biblical policy.

We have this amazing thing called "checks and balances".  Not sure what your unfounded fear is.

We can leave religion out of public policy.  The "moral majority" crowd is mostly the new team under the Republican tent.  They've been vocal and have driven many moderate people to vote for the Democrats.

No they haven't.

They have sacrificed fiscal conservative progress we were making by running many people away from republicans because of the handful of issues they strongly care about.

Wrong.

With respect to gay marriage,  I'd like to oppose it, I just can't. I've yet to hear an intelligent argument against gay marriage.  It's all either sin or eww.

The human race requires a male and female to make people.  These people, when raised by a mother and father, in a stable, normal family, have a much better chance to be normal themselves, and carry on a peaceful society to further multiply.  Gay marriage, and abortion, go against human nature.  If you wish to warp this family-based structure we have, you are welcome to go to another country and fundamentally transform them.

I fully believe climate change is real.

I believe it's real too.  This past winter, it was cold.  Now during the summer, it's hot.  Don't freak out too much about it.  If you want to learn more about it, go to Google and type in the word: "seasons".

I fully believe the climate scientists don't have all of their facts straight.

They don't have facts.  Secondly, climatology isn't a real science.

  But there is ample evidence,  it's just not 100% nailed down.

No there isn't.  If there was, you'd be able to show and discuss this evidence.  But, you can't.

Of the people who dedicate their career to studying such things, 97% of them agree.

Not true.  That is a fallacy that stupid people believe.  Either admit you're stupid, or prove your 97% assertion.

[Knox1983]

Yes they want full term and partial birth, but SCOTUS gave discretion for that to the states, you fight at the state capital,  not DC.

At the national level,  the right of a woman to choose to end her pregnancy is her right, and the state shall only impose regulations for safety reasons.  There is a line, and SCOTUS gave a range where to draw it. Actually they said you couldn't draw it before a certain point.  Ending abortion is a pipe dream, that trying to fulfill will only push more people to vote Democrat.

With respect to same sex marriage,  your argument is invalid.  For many reasons. How many marriages end in divorce within just a matter of years?  A great many, almost majority,  end before any children are raised.

We also allow elderly people to marry, who, like homosexuals, are unable to conceive.

So it is obvious marriage laws are not geared to enforce a family life, or to favor child birth.

The fact is marriage is a legal vehicle the government uses to extend benefits to the parties thereof. These benefits cannot often be contracted for outside of the arrangement we call marriage.

Denying homosexuals the ability to marry their chosen partner is without question discrimination,  harming a homosexual,  and since heterosexuals are doing a fine job of trashing the institution, it can't be said to be special anymore. 

With respect to climate change,  National Academies of Science from damn near every nation that has one all agree, as does damn near every single peer reviewed piece of research presented or published in the last few decades.

You are the (intentionally) stupid one.     
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm