The Bible

[MFA]

To this day, I still don't know what he did wrong.

Running harem which included children...?

[Solar]

Running harem which included children...?

So says the Govt that murdered the same children they claimed he harmed?
I don't buy it.

[MFA]

So says the Govt that murdered the same children they claimed he harmed?
I don't buy it.

You might be right.

There is a pattern in cult leaders that have done this...

[Solar]

You might be right.

There is a pattern in cult leaders that have done this...

It bothers me that I can no longer trust my Govt.

[TboneAgain]

It bothers me that I can no longer trust my Govt.

This is not criticism, sir. But NEVER in my life have I trusted my government. Government, by its very nature and construction, is a thing that should never be trusted.

[Solar]

This is not criticism, sir. But NEVER in my life have I trusted my government. Government, by its very nature and construction, is a thing that should never be trusted.

Lets just say I had faith that good people would win out over the corrupt in the past, people like Reagan.
Those days are long gone, I no longer trust any Govt entity.

[kramarat]

To this day, I still don't know what he did wrong.

C'mon guys. Like I said, I'll never condone government murder, but Koresh was off on a really strange tangent.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/us/growing-up-under-koresh-cult-children-tell-of-abuses.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-07-20/news/9507200155_1_kiri-jewell-branch-davidian-waco
Strangely enough, the guns were legal.

[Solar]

C'mon guys. Like I said, I'll never condone government murder, but Koresh was off on a really strange tangent.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/us/growing-up-under-koresh-cult-children-tell-of-abuses.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-07-20/news/9507200155_1_kiri-jewell-branch-davidian-waco
Strangely enough, the guns were legal.

Both your sources are extreme liberal sites, the same ones that tried and convicted Richard Jewel before he even went to court.
Both CT and the NY Times carry water for any Clinton, especially back when Reno was running things, neither paper carry any credibility, they both had and still have an agenda.

I'm not saying he was innocent, I'm saying I don't trust the Govt for anything.

[TboneAgain]

C'mon guys. Like I said, I'll never condone government murder, but Koresh was off on a really strange tangent.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/04/us/growing-up-under-koresh-cult-children-tell-of-abuses.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-07-20/news/9507200155_1_kiri-jewell-branch-davidian-waco
Strangely enough, the guns were legal.

Um, excuse me, but being "off on a really strange tangent" ain't exactly illegal. Bill Maher makes millions of dollars every year being "off on a really strange tangent" on HBO.

Seventy-six people, including 20 kids and two pregnant mothers, died that day in a fire set in a plywood Texas tinderbox almost certainly by agents of the federal government. Looking at in a different way, even if we assume that the feds were angels, that fire would not have occurred had those federal agents been elsewhere, minding their own damn business, instead of assembling outside the Branch Davidian compound with loudspeakers and automatic weapons and tanks and incendiary devices.

Waco is an example of just how bad government can be.

[kramarat]

Um, excuse me, but being "off on a really strange tangent" ain't exactly illegal. Bill Maher makes millions of dollars every year being "off on a really strange tangent" on HBO.

Seventy-six people, including 20 kids and two pregnant mothers, died that day in a fire set in a plywood Texas tinderbox almost certainly by agents of the federal government. Looking at in a different way, even if we assume that the feds were angels, that fire would not have occurred had those federal agents been elsewhere, minding their own damn business, instead of assembling outside the Branch Davidian compound with loudspeakers and automatic weapons and tanks and incendiary devices.

Waco is an example of just how bad government can be.

Correct. Janet Reno should be rotting in prison.

The correct action for the authorities to have taken, would be to have taken out a warrant based on the allegations of former members, that Koresh was having sex with children. From there they could have sent in an undercover person, seen if the allegations were true, and, if so, arrested Koresh.

The illegal actions on the part of our corrupt government, and the fact that Koresh was a freak pedophile, have nothing to do with each other. I was responding to what Yawn said about agreeing with Koresh's teachings. The fact that he was having sex with children didn't emerge until well after the illegal government assault. But sex with kids, is indeed, illegal.

[TboneAgain]

Correct. Janet Reno should be rotting in prison.

The correct action for the authorities to have taken, would be to have taken out a warrant based on the allegations of former members, that Koresh was having sex with children. From there they could have sent in an undercover person, seen if the allegations were true, and, if so, arrested Koresh.

The illegal actions on the part of our corrupt government, and the fact that Koresh was a freak pedophile, have nothing to do with each other. I was responding to what Yawn said about agreeing with Koresh's teachings. The fact that he was having sex with children didn't emerge until well after the illegal government assault. But sex with kids, is indeed, illegal.

Yep, sex with kids illegal. Where's the proof? The feds didn't investigate the matter. They didn't even try to detain Koresh when he was in town and they were following him. They made no effort to get an informant planted inside the compound.

They burned the damn place to the ground! They killed everybody inside, including at least 20 potential victims of pedophilia!

Where's the DNA? Where's the eyewitness testimony? Where's the fulfillment of the heavy burden of proof normal in a felony case?

They burned it! They couldn't get this guy to work with them, so they burned the place to the ground.

I have never been so ashamed to be an American as I was on the day my damned government burned that place in Waco. It was mass murder by fire, simple as that.

[kramarat]

Yep, sex with kids illegal. Where's the proof? The feds didn't investigate the matter. They didn't even try to detain Koresh when he was in town and they were following him. They made no effort to get an informant planted inside the compound.

They burned the damn place to the ground! They killed everybody inside, including at least 20 potential victims of pedophilia!

Where's the DNA? Where's the eyewitness testimony? Where's the fulfillment of the heavy burden of proof normal in a felony case?

They burned it! They couldn't get this guy to work with them, so they burned the place to the ground.

I have never been so ashamed to be an American as I was on the day my damned government burned that place in Waco. It was mass murder by fire, simple as that.

I'm with you 100%. I couldn't believe what I was seeing unfold.

The allegations of sex with kids, beatings, etc., should have been handled by the local authorities. All we have in regard to the sex with children, is their own accounts after the fact.

All I'm saying: Is that the ATF had no business there. The government had no business burning those people. Janet Reno is a criminal.

AND

David Koresh was not the savior he pretended to be. I don't think what he was doing is right.

I am in no way justifying what the ATF did.

I think that Koresh was a delusional cult leader that was beginning to see himself as the embodiment of Jesus Christ, and twisting the Bible to serve his own desires....BUT....He had also not been charged with any crime, nor convicted of any crime, which makes the entire ATF raid, illegal and unconstitutional.

[TboneAgain]

I'm with you 100%. I couldn't believe what I was seeing unfold.

The allegations of sex with kids, beatings, etc., should have been handled by the local authorities. All we have in regard to the sex with children, is their own accounts after the fact.

All I'm saying: Is that the ATF had no business there. The government had no business burning those people. Janet Reno is a criminal.

AND

David Koresh was not the savior he pretended to be. I don't think what he was doing is right.

I am in no way justifying what the ATF did.

I think that Koresh was a delusional cult leader that was beginning to see himself as the embodiment of Jesus Christ, and twisting the Bible to serve his own desires....BUT....He had also not been charged with any crime, nor convicted of any crime, which makes the entire ATF raid, illegal and unconstitutional.

I think we're agreeing here. David Koresh was a nutball, a very strange dude with some very strange ideas. Did he have sex with underage kids? I don't know, and neither do because Koresh and the kids are ALL dead now, thanks to our federal government.

Last time I checked, it's not against any law to be a nutball in the United States. It's not illegal to be a very strange dude with some very strange ideas. (There are those who would accuse this writer of being a nutball with strange ideas. They are SO misguided.)

Janet Reno and Bill Clinton should be rotting together -- in the same cell. I'll leave the rest to your imagination. (Like, who's on top?)

[kramarat]

I think we're agreeing here. David Koresh was a nutball, a very strange dude with some very strange ideas. Did he have sex with underage kids? I don't know, and neither do because Koresh and the kids are ALL dead now, thanks to our federal government.

Last time I checked, it's not against any law to be a nutball in the United States. It's not illegal to be a very strange dude with some very strange ideas. (There are those who would accuse this writer of being a nutball with strange ideas. They are SO misguided.)

Janet Reno and Bill Clinton should be rotting together -- in the same cell. I'll leave the rest to your imagination. (Like, who's on top?)

Yeah, we're agreeing.

My opinion of Koresh, and my opinion of the illegal murder of US citizens by the ATF, Reno, and Clinton, are completely independent of each other.

[Yawn]

I think we're agreeing here. David Koresh was a nutball, a very strange dude with some very strange ideas. Did he have sex with underage kids? I don't know, and neither do because Koresh and the kids are ALL dead now, thanks to our federal government.

Now where did you pick that up? The ONLY source of that is the Federal Government (Clinton Administration).

Does that make sense????

He was targeted on GUN charges.  They murdered everyone there then bulldozed everything under within days. They said, AFTER THE FACT, that Koresh was some sort of pervert.  And the gullible (even here) swallow what Bill Clinton puts out.

Some of you just don't think thing thru. Government says something to cover their crimes, the lapdog media (who loved Clinton the way they love Obama) runs with it, and you accept it!

Koresh was on friendly terms with the sheriff.  If he was committing crimes at that compound, why would they ignore it until the Feds murdered the entire group?

I know the beliefs of the Branch Davidians. They're an offshoot of the 7th Day Adventists. My beliefs are similar to both. They make more sense than the insane beliefs of the Catholics or the Muslims!