Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Religion Forum => Topic started by: kramarat on August 31, 2012, 07:54:08 PM

Title: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on August 31, 2012, 07:54:08 PM
It's something I've always wondered about. I know nothing about it.

Is it a real language?

Is it God?

Is it the devil?

What are they saying?

Anybody have any experiences with it?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: JustKari on August 31, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
It is considered a spiritual gift, and as such, would mean that not everyone will be able to do it.  Some churches would disagree with me on that, but the Bible is pretty clear that it is a special gift.  The main story about speaking in tongues is on the day of Pentecost when the Christian church was born/the Holy Spirit came upon the 3000.  We see from that story that it takes two to legitimately speak in tongues, a speaker and a translator/one who understands.  I have only seen it happen legitimately twice, many people claim to do it, but you soon realize that they are saying the same few phrases over and over.This is probably due to the fact that in some churches they teach that if you don't speak in tounges, you are not really a true believer.

As to what language it is, I don't know.  The two times I have heard it, it sounded a bit like Hebrew, but since I don't know Hebrew, I can not confirm that.  I can confirm that of all four people (two speakers and two translators), none knew Hebrew, both said things relavent to what the pastor was saying, and were said in churches where it is seen like any other gift, not encouraged or discouraged.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on September 01, 2012, 05:46:40 AM
Quote from: JustKari on August 31, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
It is considered a spiritual gift, and as such, would mean that not everyone will be able to do it.  Some churches would disagree with me on that, but the Bible is pretty clear that it is a special gift.  The main story about speaking in tongues is on the day of Pentecost when the Christian church was born/the Holy Spirit came upon the 3000.  We see from that story that it takes two to legitimately speak in tongues, a speaker and a translator/one who understands.  I have only seen it happen legitimately twice, many people claim to do it, but you soon realize that they are saying the same few phrases over and over.This is probably due to the fact that in some churches they teach that if you don't speak in tounges, you are not really a true believer.

As to what language it is, I don't know.  The two times I have heard it, it sounded a bit like Hebrew, but since I don't know Hebrew, I can not confirm that.  I can confirm that of all four people (two speakers and two translators), none knew Hebrew, both said things relavent to what the pastor was saying, and were said in churches where it is seen like any other gift, not encouraged or discouraged.

Thanks Kari. I've seen it a couple of times on a documentary or something, and it seems a little creepy to me. Which doesn't mean it is.

Some things I think are over the top. Like the churches that use poisonous snakes during the service. If someone gets bit, it's because they aren't pure enough. Well, I've never seen it in person, but the way I see it....................snakes bite by their very nature, and God gave us a brain to know enough to leave them alone.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Solar on September 01, 2012, 06:00:14 AM
Quote from: kramarat on September 01, 2012, 05:46:40 AM
Thanks Kari. I've seen it a couple of times on a documentary or something, and it seems a little creepy to me. Which doesn't mean it is.

Some things I think are over the top. Like the churches that use poisonous snakes during the service. If someone gets bit, it's because they aren't pure enough. Well, I've never seen it in person, but the way I see it....................snakes bite by their very nature, and God gave us a brain to know enough to leave them alone.
I've seen it a couple of times in my life, and I also hypnotize people, so I recognize a hypnotic trance.
When people believe deeply enough in something and give themselves over to that belief, it takes on a life all it's own and the individual succumbs to their own beliefs.

Basically when they are praying deeply, they are putting themselves in a trance, at which point they are susceptible to their own suggestions and fall into a hypnotic trance.

Now, are they talking to God? Probably, because they have been released for the realm we see as reality, and have passed into another realm altogether.

I watched a friend I grew up with, go from Atheist to full Christian believer in two short months, and take to talking in tongues, something he had no idea even existed.
He finally found peace in all the 56 years I knew him, he died of a stroke 6 months later, that was last year.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on September 01, 2012, 06:04:16 AM
Quote from: Solar on September 01, 2012, 06:00:14 AM
I've seen it a couple of times in my life, and I also hypnotize people, so I recognize a hypnotic trance.
When people believe deeply enough in something and give themselves over to that belief, it takes on a life all it's own and the individual succumbs to their own beliefs.

Basically when they are praying deeply, they are putting themselves in a trance, at which point they are susceptible to their own suggestions and fall into a hypnotic trance.

Now, are they talking to God? Probably, because they have been released for the realm we see as reality, and have passed into another realm altogether.

I watched a friend I grew up with, go from Atheist to full Christian believer in two short months, and take to talking in tongues, something he had no idea even existed.
He finally found peace in all the 56 years I knew him, he died of a stroke 6 months later, that was last year.

Wow! Did something happen to turn him Christian?

That's amazing. I'm glad he found God/Christ before he passed on.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Solar on September 01, 2012, 06:21:42 AM
Quote from: kramarat on September 01, 2012, 06:04:16 AM
Wow! Did something happen to turn him Christian?

That's amazing. I'm glad he found God/Christ before he passed on.
Yes, he had been lost his entire life, his morals were in question and he only had one girl friend his entire life.
A stranger befriended him and asked him to join him at a concert, Jerry sat through nearly all of it enjoying the music and the energy and friendliness of the crowd.
When it hit him, it was a Christian concert, he wanted to have what they had found, so he opened his heart and found God.

A little background on Jerry to give you an idea just how lost and confused he was, I'll tell you a short story that sums up his life as a whole.

We were in a nightclub in Old Sacto, I was getting asked to dance every dance, Jerry got angry that he wasn't being asked, we explained that he needed to make himself available, to get out and ask them to dance.
He did and a few seconds into the dance, he whispers something into the girls ear and she hauls off and slaps him.

He returns to the table, says nothing, then proceeds to repeat the same thing two more times.
When he returned after the third slap, we ask, What in the Hell did you say to those girls"?

All pissed off, throwing his cigarettes and ashtray on the floor, and stating, All they want to do is dance, they don't want to Fu**"!

Now how lost is that? A buddy of his told him that he would go to concerts and ask nearly 300 girls, till one said yes, and Jerry saw no issue with that. :blink:

But never the less, Jerry was a childhood friend, one I shared many memories with, too bad he found God so late in life though.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on September 01, 2012, 09:47:35 AM
Well, good for him that he saw the light. I'm not real big on going to church, but a Christian nonetheless.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: JustKari on September 01, 2012, 10:04:40 AM
Quote from: kramarat on September 01, 2012, 09:47:35 AM
Well, good for him that he saw the light. I'm not real big on going to church, but a Christian nonetheless.

While going to church helps, they don't call us Churchians, but Christians.  The church is not, and will never be, a building, but a body of believers.  :smile:  I wish I could go more, but my physical limitations and pain just don't allow it.  We are still believers.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on September 02, 2012, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: JustKari on September 01, 2012, 10:04:40 AM
While going to church helps, they don't call us Churchians, but Christians.  The church is not, and will never be, a building, but a body of believers.  :smile:  I wish I could go more, but my physical limitations and pain just don't allow it.  We are still believers.

God lives in the heart Kari. I've seen Christianity used as a tool to separate people from their money. God is available to anyone that asks............................money is not part of the equation. I know it sounds a little cynical, but my relationship with God, is mine alone. I don't go about trying to get others to be like me.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Rockntractor on September 02, 2012, 02:16:35 PM
God can understand any language we speak and even reads our thoughts so their is no unspoken word to him, if I speak around others It is courteous to try to speak a language we all understand.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on September 02, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
Quote from: Rockntractor on September 02, 2012, 02:16:35 PM
God can understand any language we speak and even reads our thoughts so their is no unspoken word to him, if I speak around others It is courteous to try to speak a language we all understand.

I used to play around with trance states when I was young. God was nice enough to take me aside and tell me that evil can also enter, and that I should not be messing around with it. All I can say, is thank you.

I'm about as dumb as it gets. God keeps me on track.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Solar on September 02, 2012, 05:44:38 PM
Quote from: kramarat on September 02, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I used to play around with trance states when I was young. God was nice enough to take me aside and tell me that evil can also enter, and that I should not be messing around with it. All I can say, is thank you.

I'm about as dumb as it gets. God keeps me on track.
Same here, and discovered the same, evil waits for the moment you are most vulnerable, and trance is a perfect opportunity for an assault.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on September 02, 2012, 05:48:56 PM
Basically, God told me, "dude, you're so dumb that the devil can take your mind when you're not even paying attention."

He was right.

Satan is a powerful force. Abortions? Homosexuality? He never sleeps. All that is wrong will become right.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on September 02, 2012, 06:05:57 PM
PS- As stupid and unworthy as I am. Jesus took my sins as his own.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: JoReba on October 12, 2012, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: JustKari on August 31, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
It is considered a spiritual gift, and as such, would mean that not everyone will be able to do it.  Some churches would disagree with me on that, but the Bible is pretty clear that it is a special gift.  The main story about speaking in tongues is on the day of Pentecost when the Christian church was born/the Holy Spirit came upon the 3000.  We see from that story that it takes two to legitimately speak in tongues, a speaker and a translator/one who understands.  I have only seen it happen legitimately twice, many people claim to do it, but you soon realize that they are saying the same few phrases over and over.This is probably due to the fact that in some churches they teach that if you don't speak in tounges, you are not really a true believer.

As to what language it is, I don't know.  The two times I have heard it, it sounded a bit like Hebrew, but since I don't know Hebrew, I can not confirm that.  I can confirm that of all four people (two speakers and two translators), none knew Hebrew, both said things relavent to what the pastor was saying, and were said in churches where it is seen like any other gift, not encouraged or discouraged.

The people who claim to have the supposed inside line on "Tongues" are the babbling Pentecostals.  They are cult which:

1.)  Redefines English words to suit their ideologies.
2.)  Substitutes talk for action.
3.)  Does not teach maturity in God apart from emotional activity.
4.)  Uses miniscule parts of The Bible to form vast, broad, complicated, and ineffective ideologies about God.
5.)  Cannot deliver what they advertise.
6.)  Is seen by the rest of Christendom as flaky and weak.
7.)  Has imaginary teaching that strange and "Heavenly" languages can be spontaneously spoken by people, even when such "Heavenly" languages are never recorded in The Bible.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on October 13, 2012, 04:37:02 AM
Quote from: JoReba on October 12, 2012, 10:53:18 PM
The people who claim to have the supposed inside line on "Tongues" are the babbling Pentecostals.  They are cult which:

1.)  Redefines English words to suit their ideologies.
2.)  Substitutes talk for action.
3.)  Does not teach maturity in God apart from emotional activity.
4.)  Uses miniscule parts of The Bible to form vast, broad, complicated, and ineffective ideologies about God.
5.)  Cannot deliver what they advertise.
6.)  Is seen by the rest of Christendom as flaky and weak.
7.)  Has imaginary teaching that strange and "Heavenly" languages can be spontaneously spoken by people, even when such "Heavenly" languages are never recorded in The Bible.

When Kari had mentioned that it takes one to do the talking, and another to do the translating, I couldn't help but think about how it could be used to commit fraud, and convince people that things were being said, that actually weren't. I don't know if that happens, but the opportunity sure is there.

There's no denying that Christianity, or people acting in the name of Christianity, can take some very twisted turns. The Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind. They were in my state last week to protest at the funeral of a young soldier. 5000 people showed up, and formed a human wall to keep them out.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: marksch19 on October 13, 2012, 08:16:25 AM
I definitely think speaking in tongues is from Ol' Nick's garage. Even he can masquerade in a pillar of light if he wanted to.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: RevStan on November 16, 2012, 08:56:07 PM
Quote from: JustKari on August 31, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
It is considered a spiritual gift, and as such, would mean that not everyone will be able to do it.  Some churches would disagree with me on that, but the Bible is pretty clear that it is a special gift.  The main story about speaking in tongues is on the day of Pentecost when the Christian church was born/the Holy Spirit came upon the 3000.  We see from that story that it takes two to legitimately speak in tongues, a speaker and a translator/one who understands.  I have only seen it happen legitimately twice, many people claim to do it, but you soon realize that they are saying the same few phrases over and over.This is probably due to the fact that in some churches they teach that if you don't speak in tounges, you are not really a true believer.

As to what language it is, I don't know.  The two times I have heard it, it sounded a bit like Hebrew, but since I don't know Hebrew, I can not confirm that.  I can confirm that of all four people (two speakers and two translators), none knew Hebrew, both said things relavent to what the pastor was saying, and were said in churches where it is seen like any other gift, not encouraged or discouraged.


I think this is a great reply. I was raised Pentacostal yet I find it all too spiritual for me to decide
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Yawn on November 18, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
I agree with a couple here.

There are striking major differences between Biblical tongues verses Charismatic tongues (a SATANIC counterfeit).

Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE.

QuoteAnd when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on November 18, 2012, 10:30:46 AM
Quote from: Yawn on November 18, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
I agree with a couple here.

There are striking major differences between Biblical tongues verses Charismatic tongues (a SATANIC counterfeit).

Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE.

Interesting.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Shooterman on November 18, 2012, 02:35:39 PM
Quote from: Yawn on November 18, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
I agree with a couple here.

There are striking major differences between Biblical tongues verses Charismatic tongues (a SATANIC counterfeit).

Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE.

Bingo, Yawn. Jerusalem was a melting pot of traders, travelers, and various and sundry other visitors. On the Day of Pentecost, immediately after the Ascension of Christ, when the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles and Disciples, mostly uneducated men conversed with and spoke Jesus unto the multitudes. That was the purpose of the 'tongues'; to preach Jesus. We have the scriptures to guide us now.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 01, 2012, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: JoReba on October 12, 2012, 10:53:18 PM
The people who claim to have the supposed inside line on "Tongues" are the babbling Pentecostals.  They are cult which:

1.)  Redefines English words to suit their ideologies.

Not true.  You could argue that they redefine Greek words...but English words?

Quote2.)  Substitutes talk for action.

Quite the generalization.  Are you suggesting that charismatics and pentecostals don't "do anything"?

Quote3.)  Does not teach maturity in God apart from emotional activity.

Untrue.

Quote4.)  Uses miniscule parts of The Bible to form vast, broad, complicated, and ineffective ideologies about God.

Again, untrue.

Quote5.)  Cannot deliver what they advertise.

Really?  What do they advertise?

Quote6.)  Is seen by the rest of Christendom as flaky and weak.

Really?  Care to substantiate that with something...substantive?

Quote7.)  Has imaginary teaching that strange and "Heavenly" languages can be spontaneously spoken by people, even when such "Heavenly" languages are never recorded in The Bible.

I can guarantee that these teachings are not "imaginary."  There is also some pretty direct allusion to "heavenly languages" in the Bible.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 01, 2012, 08:22:26 AM
Quote from: Yawn on November 18, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
I agree with a couple here.

There are striking major differences between Biblical tongues verses Charismatic tongues (a SATANIC counterfeit).

Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE.

Interesting.  So when the Apostle Paul commands that every message in tongues in the assembly requires interpretation, he was off his rocker?  Or is his first letter to the Corinthian church not included in your Bible?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 01, 2012, 08:23:00 AM
Quote from: Shooterman on November 18, 2012, 02:35:39 PM
Bingo, Yawn. Jerusalem was a melting pot of traders, travelers, and various and sundry other visitors. On the Day of Pentecost, immediately after the Ascension of Christ, when the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles and Disciples, mostly uneducated men conversed with and spoke Jesus unto the multitudes. That was the purpose of the 'tongues'; to preach Jesus. We have the scriptures to guide us now.

Bingo.  Yawn.  Except not.

Do Christians even read the Bible they revere?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Yawn on December 02, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: MFA on December 01, 2012, 08:22:26 AM
Interesting.  So when the Apostle Paul commands that every message in tongues in the assembly requires interpretation, he was off his rocker?  Or is his first letter to the Corinthian church not included in your Bible?

Yes, read, but also UNDERSTAND.  If you have some true "gift", if there is no (HONEST) individual that can interpret your gibberish, then you are to KEEP QUIET.  Your gibberish does nothing to edify the body and is nearly always used to build yourself up rather than the Church.  When God or His angels come, did they EVER speak to the prophets in a language they could not understand? What would be the point of that?  There is no love for the Church in this, only your own vanity.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 04, 2012, 07:33:53 AM
Quote from: Yawn on December 02, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
Yes, read, but also UNDERSTAND.  If you have some true "gift", if there is no (HONEST) individual that can interpret your gibberish, then you are to KEEP QUIET.  Your gibberish does nothing to edify the body and is nearly always used to build yourself up rather than the Church.  When God or His angels come, did they EVER speak to the prophets in a language they could not understand? What would be the point of that?  There is no love for the Church in this, only your own vanity.

Help me out here.  You said:

"Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE."

There was no need for a translator, and yet Paul says, "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret" (1 Corinthians 14:27).  You say there is no need for a translator but Paul says someone must interpret.  So which is it?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Texas_Secession on December 12, 2012, 11:56:54 AM
Quote from: kramarat on August 31, 2012, 07:54:08 PM
I know nothing about it.   Is it a real language?   Is it God?    Is it the devil?   What are they saying?
Anybody have any experiences with it?

Today's version of Pentacostalism (and its attendant speaking-in-tongues) are not related to the Church Age (premil) era.  Tongues ended after the Fall of Israel and is not a current spiritual gift.  I was raised in a Pentacostal church and the sheer insanity of the screaming, yelling, tongues, dancing, and collective insanity was enough (as a 13 year old) to steer me away from that and into a church where the Bible, not entertainment, was the key to spiritual growth.    I agree with a view that came out of Dallas Seminary years ago, that today's "tongues movement" is demon-inspired.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 13, 2012, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: Texas_Secession on December 12, 2012, 11:56:54 AM
Today's version of Pentacostalism (and its attendant speaking-in-tongues) are not related to the Church Age (premil) era.  Tongues ended after the Fall of Israel and is not a current spiritual gift.

The Bible certainly doesn't say that.  When was this "fall of Israel"?  70 A.D.?  135 A.D.?

QuoteI was raised in a Pentacostal church and the sheer insanity of the screaming, yelling, tongues, dancing, and collective insanity was enough (as a 13 year old) to steer me away from that and into a church where the Bible, not entertainment, was the key to spiritual growth.

No legitimate Pentecostal would say that entertainment is the key to spiritual growth.  In fact, I don't even think Pentecostal doctrine says that spiritual gifts are the key to spiritual growth.  Then again, the Bible itself is not the key to spiritual growth.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: kramarat on December 14, 2012, 04:57:08 AM
Quote from: MFA on December 13, 2012, 09:51:28 AM
The Bible certainly doesn't say that.  When was this "fall of Israel"?  70 A.D.?  135 A.D.?

No legitimate Pentecostal would say that entertainment is the key to spiritual growth.  In fact, I don't even think Pentecostal doctrine says that spiritual gifts are the key to spiritual growth.  Then again, the Bible itself is not the key to spiritual growth.

I agree that the Bible is not the key to spiritual growth. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, and to this day, I don't like church of any kind. It always seems to come back to that particular church, and their particular interpretation of the Bible................everyone else is wrong.

I think the connection to God is both personal, and not necessarily the exact same for everyone. I would never tell anyone that my way is the only way. I'm sure that many find there way through church; it's just not for me.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: keyboarder on December 18, 2012, 06:32:46 AM
Quote from: Yawn on November 18, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
I agree with a couple here.

There are striking major differences between Biblical tongues verses Charismatic tongues (a SATANIC counterfeit).

Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE.

Great discussion all but I have to agree with Yawn on this one.  In the day of the Pentecost, there was a reality of all who were there to be in one accord and that is when the Spirit can really do some good.  It's kinda like they all decided to invite the spirit into their worship and in being able to do this, they would all have to turn all of their thoughts, minds and hearts toward the Savior of mankind, leaving all earthly cares and issues outside of the room.  Being in one accord, they all understood the heart of everyone else that was present-no words had to be spoken or interpreted.  Paul knew and spoke several languages that may have labeled him a speaker of tongues but in reality, he actually spoke different languages to be able to minister to the masses. 

On a different issue, someone spoke of snake handling.  I'm not a judge of these people but I trust God to handle any situation that might arise, not one that I might deliberately provoke.  I' m posting some links but I don't want anyone to be offended.  Two links are of noted songsters and two are docu type articles on this issue.  The squimesh ought to watch with caution, as I did.  Matter of fact I couldn't watch all of the docu's.
The songsters might seem to be making fun, I can assure you, they weren't.  as a pianist for several traveling gospel groups, I can tell you for a fact with my hand up that these are not jokes, they really practice this in West Virginia, maybe a few more states.  by and by, it has become illegal to do so.
iiI'm having trouble getting these 4 clips on the forum.  I pulled them up and tried to post them, anyone got a hint what I'm doing wrong>  something attached itself to the http (url).  Am I not supposed to post these?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: keyboarder on December 18, 2012, 07:08:00 AM
See if this one works

Here Come the Rattlesnakes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSP_ZDV3htk#)
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 18, 2012, 06:43:15 PM
Quote from: kramarat on December 14, 2012, 04:57:08 AM
I agree that the Bible is not the key to spiritual growth. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, and to this day, I don't like church of any kind. It always seems to come back to that particular church, and their particular interpretation of the Bible................everyone else is wrong.

I think the connection to God is both personal, and not necessarily the exact same for everyone. I would never tell anyone that my way is the only way. I'm sure that many find there way through church; it's just not for me.

If you read the New Testament, one thing that does not translate well into English is the word "you."  In English there is no way to discern whether it is singular or plural.  In Greek, most of the "you"s are plural.  God certainly intended for us to assemble together.  The Greek word ekklesia means "assembly" and implies coming together regularly.  God intended us to live interdependently.  We are "the Church" regardless of what kind of organized church you belong to or attend.

But individualism is a hallmark of today's culture and, in its extreme, is detrimental both to the individual and to the witness of Christ on the earth.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 18, 2012, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: keyboarder on December 18, 2012, 06:32:46 AM
Great discussion all but I have to agree with Yawn on this one.  In the day of the Pentecost, there was a reality of all who were there to be in one accord and that is when the Spirit can really do some good.  It's kinda like they all decided to invite the spirit into their worship and in being able to do this, they would all have to turn all of their thoughts, minds and hearts toward the Savior of mankind, leaving all earthly cares and issues outside of the room.  Being in one accord, they all understood the heart of everyone else that was present-no words had to be spoken or interpreted.  Paul knew and spoke several languages that may have labeled him a speaker of tongues but in reality, he actually spoke different languages to be able to minister to the masses.

Ah...so his letters to the Corinthians don't exist in your Bible?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Solar on December 18, 2012, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: MFA on December 18, 2012, 06:43:15 PM
If you read the New Testament, one thing that does not translate well into English is the word "you."  In English there is no way to discern whether it is singular or plural.  In Greek, most of the "you"s are plural.  God certainly intended for us to assemble together.  The Greek word ekklesia means "assembly" and implies coming together regularly.  God intended us to live interdependently.  We are "the Church" regardless of what kind of organized church you belong to or attend.

But individualism is a hallmark of today's culture and, in its extreme, is detrimental both to the individual and to the witness of Christ on the earth.
Thank You, well said...
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: keyboarder on December 19, 2012, 06:28:11 AM
Quote from: MFA on December 18, 2012, 06:44:38 PM
Ah...so his letters to the Corinthians don't exist in your Bible?

I think you are being argumentative but i'll tell you what, ! Crointhians 14, 1-40 explains the issue of the gift of speaking in tongues.  I had occasion while attending one church to hear what that particular church had to say about the gifts.  The differing opinions split that church.  Do you know why Paul intervened at the church at Corinth?

What about the letters of Paul to the Corinthians don't you understand?
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 21, 2012, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: keyboarder on December 19, 2012, 06:28:11 AM
I think you are being argumentative but i'll tell you what, ! Crointhians 14, 1-40 explains the issue of the gift of speaking in tongues.  I had occasion while attending one church to hear what that particular church had to say about the gifts.  The differing opinions split that church.  Do you know why Paul intervened at the church at Corinth?

Yes.  Because of some significant issues of behavior that threatened both to discredit and divide the church of that city.

It is clear in the letter that Paul both encourages the use of tongues as well as their proper use--both publicly and privately (which are kind of two different things).  It's also pretty clear "speaking in tongues" is a spiritual gift (thus, not simply speaking in another language), that edifies the individual (when not interpreted) and edifies the body only when interpreted.

QuoteWhat about the letters of Paul to the Corinthians don't you understand?

Hmmm...not sure I implied that I didn't understand it.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: keyboarder on December 22, 2012, 04:27:24 PM
Overzealousness has wreaked havoc in many churches.  This shows up in so many ways but most noticeable in tongues-speaking churches and snake handling folks.  That church that I made reference to in my last post had , as its pastor, a person who fully believed that you couldn't get to heaven unless you spoke in tongues.  Now, you know this isn't true, don't you?  It is NOT what we do for Jesus but believing what He has done for us.  Does He not tell us in His word to believe on His name and be saved?

He did not tell us in that same text that we had anything else to do initially to be saved.  Why would you have to speak in terms that no one understands or step on a snake's head, drink poison or touch anything that could kill you to prove your salvation?  Jesus has instructed (and so did Paul) us to covet the gift of propheising more than any other gift.  These other gifts that i've mentioned do more to edify the person than Jesus.  I think that you have to get your mind off of yourself and onto Jesus to be of any effect to yourself or others.

He has done so many wonderful things for me that I have to say so.  My life therefore is His and I do the best that I can to serve Him because of His great love.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Yawn on December 22, 2012, 06:32:32 PM
The snake handling thing and drinking poison to "prove" your relationship with God is actually proof of your relationship with Satan.

When Yeshua was tested by the devil saying, "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:

"'He will command his angels concerning you,
    and they will lift you up in their hands,
    so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'[c]"

7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: walkstall on December 22, 2012, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: Yawn on December 22, 2012, 06:32:32 PM


7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.[/b]

I find it odd that non believer put God to the test everyday.   But then God did give them a free will also.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: MFA on December 22, 2012, 08:11:14 PM
Quote from: keyboarder on December 22, 2012, 04:27:24 PM
Overzealousness has wreaked havoc in many churches.  This shows up in so many ways but most noticeable in tongues-speaking churches and snake handling folks.  That church that I made reference to in my last post had , as its pastor, a person who fully believed that you couldn't get to heaven unless you spoke in tongues.  Now, you know this isn't true, don't you?  It is NOT what we do for Jesus but believing what He has done for us.  Does He not tell us in His word to believe on His name and be saved?

He did not tell us in that same text that we had anything else to do initially to be saved.  Why would you have to speak in terms that no one understands or step on a snake's head, drink poison or touch anything that could kill you to prove your salvation?  Jesus has instructed (and so did Paul) us to covet the gift of propheising more than any other gift.  These other gifts that i've mentioned do more to edify the person than Jesus.  I think that you have to get your mind off of yourself and onto Jesus to be of any effect to yourself or others.

He has done so many wonderful things for me that I have to say so.  My life therefore is His and I do the best that I can to serve Him because of His great love.

Yes.  Overzealousness does wreak havoc.  Overzealousness is not an indication of false doctrine.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Patriot on December 26, 2012, 05:55:02 PM
Quote from: kramarat on September 01, 2012, 05:46:40 AM
Thanks Kari. I've seen it a couple of times on a documentary or something, and it seems a little creepy to me. Which doesn't mean it is.

Some things I think are over the top. Like the churches that use poisonous snakes during the service. If someone gets bit, it's because they aren't pure enough. Well, I've never seen it in person, but the way I see it....................snakes bite by their very nature, and God gave us a brain to know enough to leave them alone.

This snake belief crap is just crap.

Put a good man, or an evil man into a pit of vipers ....... both will be dead.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Calypso Jones on July 26, 2020, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: Yawn on December 02, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
Yes, read, but also UNDERSTAND.  If you have some true "gift", if there is no (HONEST) individual that can interpret your gibberish, then you are to KEEP QUIET.  Your gibberish does nothing to edify the body and is nearly always used to build yourself up rather than the Church.  When God or His angels come, did they EVER speak to the prophets in a language they could not understand? What would be the point of that?  There is no love for the Church in this, only your own vanity.

This is it.   
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: WMK on July 26, 2020, 04:25:33 PM
Quote from: MFA on December 04, 2012, 07:33:53 AM
Help me out here.  You said:

"Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE."

There was no need for a translator, and yet Paul says, "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret" (1 Corinthians 14:27).  You say there is no need for a translator but Paul says someone must interpret.  So which is it?

It is both!  At Pentecost those of a foreign tongue heard the Gospel in their language. Yet the Bible states that each foreigner heard the Gospel in their own tongue, meaning when Peter wa speaking at Penticost the message was heard in several different languages.
What Paul is referring to is a believer speaking in tongues within a church gathering, and no one understands what's being said. At that point, he is to remain silent and be self edified.

The gibberish today that's passed off as, "tongues" today, is simply Satan's counterfeit version spoken by those willing to be deceived. The Bible is very clear on how the genuine gift of tongues is to be recognized within a group of believers - one speaks, another translates.
Title: Re: Talking In Tongues
Post by: Calypso Jones on July 26, 2020, 04:47:30 PM
From what i read, i think you're right.