Talking In Tongues

[keyboarder]

See if this one works

Here Come the Rattlesnakes

[MFA]

I agree that the Bible is not the key to spiritual growth. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, and to this day, I don't like church of any kind. It always seems to come back to that particular church, and their particular interpretation of the Bible................everyone else is wrong.

I think the connection to God is both personal, and not necessarily the exact same for everyone. I would never tell anyone that my way is the only way. I'm sure that many find there way through church; it's just not for me.

If you read the New Testament, one thing that does not translate well into English is the word "you."  In English there is no way to discern whether it is singular or plural.  In Greek, most of the "you"s are plural.  God certainly intended for us to assemble together.  The Greek word ekklesia means "assembly" and implies coming together regularly.  God intended us to live interdependently.  We are "the Church" regardless of what kind of organized church you belong to or attend.

But individualism is a hallmark of today's culture and, in its extreme, is detrimental both to the individual and to the witness of Christ on the earth.

[MFA]

Great discussion all but I have to agree with Yawn on this one.  In the day of the Pentecost, there was a reality of all who were there to be in one accord and that is when the Spirit can really do some good.  It's kinda like they all decided to invite the spirit into their worship and in being able to do this, they would all have to turn all of their thoughts, minds and hearts toward the Savior of mankind, leaving all earthly cares and issues outside of the room.  Being in one accord, they all understood the heart of everyone else that was present-no words had to be spoken or interpreted.  Paul knew and spoke several languages that may have labeled him a speaker of tongues but in reality, he actually spoke different languages to be able to minister to the masses.

Ah...so his letters to the Corinthians don't exist in your Bible?

[Solar]

If you read the New Testament, one thing that does not translate well into English is the word "you."  In English there is no way to discern whether it is singular or plural.  In Greek, most of the "you"s are plural.  God certainly intended for us to assemble together.  The Greek word ekklesia means "assembly" and implies coming together regularly.  God intended us to live interdependently.  We are "the Church" regardless of what kind of organized church you belong to or attend.

But individualism is a hallmark of today's culture and, in its extreme, is detrimental both to the individual and to the witness of Christ on the earth.

Thank You, well said...

[keyboarder]

Ah...so his letters to the Corinthians don't exist in your Bible?

I think you are being argumentative but i'll tell you what, ! Crointhians 14, 1-40 explains the issue of the gift of speaking in tongues.  I had occasion while attending one church to hear what that particular church had to say about the gifts.  The differing opinions split that church.  Do you know why Paul intervened at the church at Corinth?

What about the letters of Paul to the Corinthians don't you understand?

[MFA]

I think you are being argumentative but i'll tell you what, ! Crointhians 14, 1-40 explains the issue of the gift of speaking in tongues.  I had occasion while attending one church to hear what that particular church had to say about the gifts.  The differing opinions split that church.  Do you know why Paul intervened at the church at Corinth?

Yes.  Because of some significant issues of behavior that threatened both to discredit and divide the church of that city.

It is clear in the letter that Paul both encourages the use of tongues as well as their proper use--both publicly and privately (which are kind of two different things).  It's also pretty clear "speaking in tongues" is a spiritual gift (thus, not simply speaking in another language), that edifies the individual (when not interpreted) and edifies the body only when interpreted.

What about the letters of Paul to the Corinthians don't you understand?

Hmmm...not sure I implied that I didn't understand it.

[keyboarder]

Overzealousness has wreaked havoc in many churches.  This shows up in so many ways but most noticeable in tongues-speaking churches and snake handling folks.  That church that I made reference to in my last post had , as its pastor, a person who fully believed that you couldn't get to heaven unless you spoke in tongues.  Now, you know this isn't true, don't you?  It is NOT what we do for Jesus but believing what He has done for us.  Does He not tell us in His word to believe on His name and be saved?

He did not tell us in that same text that we had anything else to do initially to be saved.  Why would you have to speak in terms that no one understands or step on a snake's head, drink poison or touch anything that could kill you to prove your salvation?  Jesus has instructed (and so did Paul) us to covet the gift of propheising more than any other gift.  These other gifts that i've mentioned do more to edify the person than Jesus.  I think that you have to get your mind off of yourself and onto Jesus to be of any effect to yourself or others.

He has done so many wonderful things for me that I have to say so.  My life therefore is His and I do the best that I can to serve Him because of His great love.

[Yawn]

The snake handling thing and drinking poison to "prove" your relationship with God is actually proof of your relationship with Satan.

When Yeshua was tested by the devil saying, "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:

"'He will command his angels concerning you,
    and they will lift you up in their hands,
    so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'[c]"

7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.

[walkstall]

7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.[/b]

I find it odd that non believer put God to the test everyday.   But then God did give them a free will also.

[MFA]

Overzealousness has wreaked havoc in many churches.  This shows up in so many ways but most noticeable in tongues-speaking churches and snake handling folks.  That church that I made reference to in my last post had , as its pastor, a person who fully believed that you couldn't get to heaven unless you spoke in tongues.  Now, you know this isn't true, don't you?  It is NOT what we do for Jesus but believing what He has done for us.  Does He not tell us in His word to believe on His name and be saved?

He did not tell us in that same text that we had anything else to do initially to be saved.  Why would you have to speak in terms that no one understands or step on a snake's head, drink poison or touch anything that could kill you to prove your salvation?  Jesus has instructed (and so did Paul) us to covet the gift of propheising more than any other gift.  These other gifts that i've mentioned do more to edify the person than Jesus.  I think that you have to get your mind off of yourself and onto Jesus to be of any effect to yourself or others.

He has done so many wonderful things for me that I have to say so.  My life therefore is His and I do the best that I can to serve Him because of His great love.

Yes.  Overzealousness does wreak havoc.  Overzealousness is not an indication of false doctrine.

[Patriot]

Thanks Kari. I've seen it a couple of times on a documentary or something, and it seems a little creepy to me. Which doesn't mean it is.

Some things I think are over the top. Like the churches that use poisonous snakes during the service. If someone gets bit, it's because they aren't pure enough. Well, I've never seen it in person, but the way I see it....................snakes bite by their very nature, and God gave us a brain to know enough to leave them alone.

This snake belief crap is just crap.

Put a good man, or an evil man into a pit of vipers ....... both will be dead.

[Calypso Jones]

Yes, read, but also UNDERSTAND.  If you have some true "gift", if there is no (HONEST) individual that can interpret your gibberish, then you are to KEEP QUIET.  Your gibberish does nothing to edify the body and is nearly always used to build yourself up rather than the Church.  When God or His angels come, did they EVER speak to the prophets in a language they could not understand? What would be the point of that?  There is no love for the Church in this, only your own vanity.

This is it.   

[WMK]

Help me out here.  You said:

"Biblically, speaking in "tongues" always involved known, earthly, established languages; and not the unknown jibber-jabber done today.

There was no need for a TRANSLATOR because EVERY MAN HEARD THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE."

There was no need for a translator, and yet Paul says, "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret" (1 Corinthians 14:27).  You say there is no need for a translator but Paul says someone must interpret.  So which is it?

It is both!  At Pentecost those of a foreign tongue heard the Gospel in their language. Yet the Bible states that each foreigner heard the Gospel in their own tongue, meaning when Peter wa speaking at Penticost the message was heard in several different languages.
What Paul is referring to is a believer speaking in tongues within a church gathering, and no one understands what's being said. At that point, he is to remain silent and be self edified.

The gibberish today that's passed off as, "tongues" today, is simply Satan's counterfeit version spoken by those willing to be deceived. The Bible is very clear on how the genuine gift of tongues is to be recognized within a group of believers - one speaks, another translates.

[Calypso Jones]

From what i read, i think you're right.