Simple poll: Do you believe we are in the end times?

[SVPete]

I'm going with a choice not among the poll options: Decisive Maybe.

Things in the US and the world are a mess on more levels than I care to try to list, and that is consistent with how I understand the Bible - New Testament especially - to describe the "end times". OTOH, I lived through the Late Great Hype era of Pre-Mil-Pre-Trib teaching where it was strongly suggested (and sometimes taught as truth) that this world's end would come within a "generation (i.e. about 40 years) of the formation of the nation of Israel. That approximately 40 years ended over 25 years ago! I'm 60, and I do not think the end of this world-system will come in my lifetime (not that I'd object to entering eternity "early").

So I think Jesus really meant what He said when He said that, "No man knows the day nor the hour." I think it highly likely that that will be true up to the moment of His return. And I'm just fine with that.

[Dr. Meh]

I'm going with a choice not among the poll options: Decisive Maybe.

Things in the US and the world are a mess on more levels than I care to try to list, and that is consistent with how I understand the Bible - New Testament especially - to describe the "end times". OTOH, I lived through the Late Great Hype era of Pre-Mil-Pre-Trib teaching where it was strongly suggested (and sometimes taught as truth) that this world's end would come within a "generation (i.e. about 40 years) of the formation of the nation of Israel. That approximately 40 years ended over 25 years ago! I'm 60, and I do not think the end of this world-system will come in my lifetime (not that I'd object to entering eternity "early").

So I think Jesus really meant what He said when He said that, "No man knows the day nor the hour." I think it highly likely that that will be true up to the moment of His return. And I'm just fine with that.

Wasn't that 1967? 40 years would be 2007 so it ended 7 years ago, not 25. Unless I missed something. Plus, the 40 year generation isn't in the Bible (I don't think) so even that is iffy. But still valid points that we really have no idea until it happens.

[Darth Fife]

How do you separate what you deem to be truth from fallacy?

Common sense! It works every time its tried!



Darth

[Dr. Meh]

Common sense! It works every time its tried!



Darth

So you're picking and choosing what you find true in the Bible based on whether or not you can logically understand it? If you believe parts of the Bible to be illogical or impossible, wouldn't "common sense" tell you you can't believe any of it? Yet you claim not to be an atheist?

[SVPete]

Wasn't that 1967? 40 years would be 2007 so it ended 7 years ago, not 25. Unless I missed something. Plus, the 40 year generation isn't in the Bible (I don't think) so even that is iffy. But still valid points that we really have no idea until it happens.

Israel became a nation in 1948, and was immediately fighting against surrounding Arabs for its life. Israel preempted "surprise" attacks in 1956 and 1967, winning both wars. So (1948) + (40) = 1988; and (2014) - (1988) = 26.

I really do not understand why you questioned my comment, "(t)hat approximately 40 years ended over 25 years ago," without first checking Wikipedia or using Google to learn when modern Israel became a nation.

[Darth Fife]

So you're picking and choosing what you find true in the Bible based on whether or not you can logically understand it? If you believe parts of the Bible to be illogical or impossible, wouldn't "common sense" tell you you can't believe any of it? Yet you claim not to be an atheist?

You're best argument is the classic bifurcation fallacy?

If any part of the Bible is true, it must ALL be true? What rational person thinks that way?

Is that how you assess things in your day to day life?

How does that work out for you?

Darth

[TboneAgain]

Youse guys can argue this until the cows come home. Here's my thing. If we're looking at "the end times," then humanity is done, finito, sayonara.

I don't believe that's happening. I don't believe it's going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. I don't even think such an event makes sense, or is likely to happen.

If we assume that a benevolent God created us and blessed us and has nurtured us through the ages, why would he suddenly snap his fingers and say, "That's it, kids, lights out?" Why turn off the spigot? Even if it's a good idea in some cosmic way, why now? What have we done lately to piss the Man off that we haven't done before?

It's one thing to point out, to take note, that this country is in some deep shit because of a lot of lib/prog policies that have brought us grief. It's another thing altogether to magnify that into the Apocalypse. The problems we have now cannot be solved overnight. But the problems we have now can be solved, and without divine intervention.

[walkstall]

Youse guys can argue this until the cows come home. Here's my thing. If we're looking at "the end times," then humanity is done, finito, sayonara.

I don't believe that's happening. I don't believe it's going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. I don't even think such an event makes sense, or is likely to happen.

If we assume that a benevolent God created us and blessed us and has nurtured us through the ages, why would he suddenly snap his fingers and say, "That's it, kids, lights out?" Why turn off the spigot? Even if it's a good idea in some cosmic way, why now? What have we done lately to piss the Man off that we haven't done before?

It's one thing to point out, to take note, that this country is in some deep shit because of a lot of lib/prog policies that have brought us grief. It's another thing altogether to magnify that into the Apocalypse. The problems we have now cannot be solved overnight. But the problems we have now can be solved, and without divine intervention.

T I don't think the earth is in deep do do until the sun starts going out.  Until then man will just killing himself a little at a time. 

[Darth Fife]

T I don't think the earth is in deep do do until the sun starts going out.  Until then man will just killing himself a little at a time. 

Agreed.

Darth

[Solar]

Youse guys can argue this until the cows come home. Here's my thing. If we're looking at "the end times," then humanity is done, finito, sayonara.

I don't believe that's happening. I don't believe it's going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. I don't even think such an event makes sense, or is likely to happen.

If we assume that a benevolent God created us and blessed us and has nurtured us through the ages, why would he suddenly snap his fingers and say, "That's it, kids, lights out?" Why turn off the spigot? Even if it's a good idea in some cosmic way, why now? What have we done lately to piss the Man off that we haven't done before?

It's one thing to point out, to take note, that this country is in some deep shit because of a lot of lib/prog policies that have brought us grief. It's another thing altogether to magnify that into the Apocalypse. The problems we have now cannot be solved overnight. But the problems we have now can be solved, and without divine intervention.

Agree,  if anything, man is his own worst enemy, whether it's war, or pestilence, one thing that's certain and history proves it, a meteor will straighten the whole mess out one day.

[Dr. Meh]

Israel became a nation in 1948, and was immediately fighting against surrounding Arabs for its life. Israel preempted "surprise" attacks in 1956 and 1967, winning both wars. So (1948) + (40) = 1988; and (2014) - (1988) = 26.

I really do not understand why you questioned my comment, "(t)hat approximately 40 years ended over 25 years ago," without first checking Wikipedia or using Google to learn when modern Israel became a nation.

I really don't understand why you're acting all butthurt when I asked a simple question.

[Dr. Meh]

You're best argument is the classic bifurcation fallacy?

If any part of the Bible is true, it must ALL be true? What rational person thinks that way?

Is that how you assess things in your day to day life?

How does that work out for you?

Darth

Ah the old philosophy 101 fallacy fallback of the pseudointellectual. Don't lower yourself to that level. It's what the juniors and seniors in college do to make themselves feel smart.

To your point, if you believe the Bible is the word of God, then yes, you have to believe it is all real and divine inspiration. You don't get a choice. Not a logical fallacy, it's the word of God or it isn't.

[Possum]

Ah the old philosophy 101 fallacy fallback of the pseudointellectual. Don't lower yourself to that level. It's what the juniors and seniors in college do to make themselves feel smart.

To your point, If you believe the Bible is the word of God, then yes, you have to believe it is all real and divine inspiration. You don't get a choice. Not a logical fallacy, it's the word of God or it isn't.

I do believe you hit the nail on the head. If you do not believe the bible as truth, you are left with pieces of paper. Hard to believe or define a God from that. If you  believe in a God powerful enough to create the universe,  writing a truthful bible would not be so hard?

[Darth Fife]

Ah the old philosophy 101 fallacy fallback of the pseudointellectual. Don't lower yourself to that level. It's what the juniors and seniors in college do to make themselves feel smart.

To your point, if you believe the Bible is the word of God, then yes, you have to believe it is all real and divine inspiration. You don't get a choice. Not a logical fallacy, it's the word of God or it isn't.

Quite true!

My point, however, is how can anyone accept the Bible as the inspired word of God (who, presumably is infallible) when it depicts events (such as the creation of the world) that are clearly inconsistent with established scientific fact?

I feel it is much better, and in the end, more persuasive to accept the Bible for what it is - the philosophical writings of many men (and probably women too) that spans the centuries and tries to make sense of the Human Experience.

In my view, the Bible is not a book about God, but a book about man, and a very human one at that!

Darth

[Dr. Meh]

Quite true!

My point, however, is how can anyone accept the Bible as the inspired word of God (who, presumably is infallible) when it depicts events (such as the creation of the world) that are clearly inconsistent with established scientific fact?

I feel it is much better, and in the end, more persuasive to accept the Bible for what it is - the philosophical writings of many men (and probably women too) that spans the centuries and tries to make sense of the Human Experience.

In my view, the Bible is not a book about God, but a book about man, and a very human one at that!

Darth

I don't see the Bible as at odds with science at all. The two answer fundamentally different questions so it just seems like they are at odds. Science is how but the Bible is why. In fact, the more we know about science and nature, the more complex it becomes. To me, this adds more credibility to a Creator than for chance.