Problems with the so-called "watchmaker" argument

[Murph]

This never makes sense for atheists, but I will try. God is transcendent, independent from our world/universe, all science, and is beyond true human perception without His use of miracles, angels, and many more methods.
Science can not prove God, that is why the whole thing is called FAITH. Go ahead call me a close-minded fool.

[kramarat]

This never makes sense for atheists, but I will try. God is transcendent, independent from our world/universe, all science, and is beyond true human perception without His use of miracles, angels, and many more methods.
Science can not prove God, that is why the whole thing is called FAITH. Go ahead call me a close-minded fool.

The only thing that's foolish, is getting into discussions with people that demand scientific evidence of God's existence. Which is why I've checked out of this thread.

[Sci Fi Fan]

This never makes sense for atheists, but I will try. God is transcendent, independent from our world/universe, all science, and is beyond true human perception without His use of miracles, angels, and many more methods.
Science can not prove God, that is why the whole thing is called FAITH. Go ahead call me a close-minded fool.

By this logic, I can declare the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  Go ahead and disprove me.  He's beyond space, time, logic and science.  By your inane "logic", my position is unbeatable.

But let me repeat:

You are openly denouncing a logical, empirical analysis of your deity!

What kind of joke of a debater actually admits that his position cannot be supported through reason and facts?

[kramarat]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/albert-einstein-and-the-s_b_800936.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/ns/world_news/t/there-god-leading-atheist-concludes/

[Sci Fi Fan]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/albert-einstein-and-the-s_b_800936.html

Huffington post?

Before I read over that article, I'll point out that Einstein rejected the notion of a personal god, and considered the stories in the bible to be ridiculous.  Of course, this is an Appeal to Authority, but...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/ns/world_news/t/there-god-leading-atheist-concludes/

Hey, look here!

[kramarat]

Now you can't decide which God you want proof of. Go argue with a Muslim.

If the concept of God scares you, lets use a Star Wars analogy. Maybe you'll understand.

darkness vs light

good vs evil

love vs hate

giving vs taking

Last Thurs the POTUS called for his followers to vote for revenge. On Tues he won the election.

Look around Luke.............the Dark side grows stronger by the day.

Homosexual sex and the killing of babies just won an election.

[Sci Fi Fan]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/albert-einstein-and-the-s_b_800936.html

Now you almost certainly don't understand what the guy is talking about (and he doesn't seem to either), but Greene is making the laughable argument that, because the universe contains a vast quantity of energy...it is a deity.  Implicitly, it is sentient, there is an afterlife and...

wait, by his "lots of energy = intelligence" argument, does that mean the sun is more intelligent than me?

Yeah, your article is full of shit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/ns/world_news/t/there-god-leading-atheist-concludes/

Ad hominem. 

Now you can't decide which God you want proof of. Go argue with a Muslim.

If the concept of God scares you, lets use a Star Wars analogy. Maybe you'll understand.

darkness vs light

good vs evil

love vs hate

giving vs taking

Last Thurs the POTUS called for his followers to vote for revenge. On Tues he won the election.

Look around Luke.............the Dark side grows stronger by the day.

Homosexual sex and the killing of babies just won an election.

This isn't scientific.  This isn't logically coherent.  This is appealing to a fictional movie to prove the existence of a being.

In other words, this is the most ridiculous nonsense I've seen all day.   

[kramarat]

For 20 years, our POTUS fell to his knees and worshipped at the altar of a man that said, "GOD DAMN AMERICA".................and he won a second term.

Son, if you cannot see evil when you are surrounded by it, nothing I say will convince you that God exists. Good luck.

[Sci Fi Fan]

For 20 years, our POTUS fell to his knees and worshipped at the altar of a man that said, "GOD DAMN AMERICA".................and he won a second term.

Son, if you cannot see evil when you are surrounded by it, nothing I say will convince you that God exists. Good luck.

Is this supposed to be a logical argument?   

[kramarat]

Is this supposed to be a logical argument?   

It is to me. Sorry if you can't see it.

[Sci Fi Fan]

It is to me. Sorry if you can't see it.

Please, please tell me you're trolling.

[kramarat]

Please, please tell me you're trolling.

Not at all. It's your thread bro.

[Sci Fi Fan]

You are aware that I can copy your arguments word for word, and substitute "god" for "flying spaghetti monster", without lowering its legitimacy or logical (in)coherence, right?

[kramarat]

You are aware that I can copy your arguments word for word, and substitute "god" for "flying spaghetti monster", without lowering its legitimacy or logical (in)coherence, right?

Go for it.

Hey. Good news!!!!!

I found you a site where you can type until your fingers are blue............and somebody might even pay attention.

Here's a good one:

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-the-terms-b-c-and-a-d-disrespectful-of-non-christian-religions

[Sci Fi Fan]

I found you a site where you can type until your fingers are blue............and somebody might even pay attention.

In other words, you don't even have the pretense of a logical argument, and ridicule the concept that someone would demand coherency in a debate.