Presbyterian mistake

[CG6468]

Presbyterian mistake By JPOST EDITORIAL
06/22/2014 21:00
 
By taking a stand in favor of divestment the Presbyterians of America are saying that they have figured out who is right and who is wrong in the conflict.

The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) voted last week to divest from three American companies that do business with Israel. The reason given by the assembly's Stated Clerk Rev. Gradyne Parsons was, "We as a church cannot profit from the destruction of [Palestinian] homes and lives."

The church will divest from Caterpillar, because its bulldozers have been used to demolish Palestinian homes (even though the same bulldozers are used to take down illegal Jewish outposts). It will drop Hewlett-Packard, because the Israel Navy has used its products to coordinate the blockade of the Gaza Strip (ruled by a terrorist organization that uses violence to enforce Islamic law that discriminates against women and religious minorities such as Christians) and because its biometric scanners are in place at checkpoints (where they help make it easier for the IDF to check for terrorists).

It will divest from Motorola Solutions, because the IDF buys the company's communication technologies (which are used to defend Israel from its many enemies).

Although Methodists and Presbyterians tend to be the most aggressively anti-Israel among liberal protestant denominations, all five of the mainline denominations – which include the Episcopalian, Evangelical Lutheran, and United Church of Christ – have debated and in some cases adopted policies intended to bring direct or indirect economic pressure on Israel to make concessions to the Palestinians.

Why are liberal protestant denominations so prone to singling out Israel for castigation? Catholics tend to be more even-handed regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Presbyterian-mistake-360202

[Mountainshield]

These people are below despicable, I can't remember the exact verse but it said basically that those who claim to speak for God and blaspheme are the worst of the scum that exist. The sad thing is that most people don't care about politics, and so too does most christians not care about politics and will continue to attend these false churches.

The worst part is who can blame them? Politics is today basically just about the power to redistribute wealth to yourself and your own supporters, what kind of creature do you have to be to be interested in politics?

We are into politics because we want less politics, we conservatives are freaks 

[Solar]

Stupid, stupid people.
It's like (I think, Unitarian?) church, or one of those, and it's adopting the stance that being gay is fine.
They adopted nothing, they abandoned religious doctrine, and should not receive 1st Amendment protections.

It's akin to claiming bestiality, pedophilia, Hell, murder, as somehow acceptable under God, because we're all sinners.
For the same reason Islum should be outlawed for being a political cult that slaps in the face of our Constitution.

OK, rant off....

[CG6468]

Thank you for saying "political cult". 

[Solar]

Thank you for saying "political cult". 

If I were POTUS, I'd ask that a Bill be drawn up removing their 1st Amendment protections, on the grounds that it is in direct opposition to our laws.
I can dream, can't I.

[supsalemgr]

These people are below despicable, I can't remember the exact verse but it said basically that those who claim to speak for God and blaspheme are the worst of the scum that exist. The sad thing is that most people don't care about politics, and so too does most christians not care about politics and will continue to attend these false churches.

The worst part is who can blame them? Politics is today basically just about the power to redistribute wealth to yourself and your own supporters, what kind of creature do you have to be to be interested in politics?

We are into politics because we want less politics, we conservatives are freaks 

One of the great things about the Christian religion is the many denominations that are part of it. Christians can find a denomination where they are most comfortable. I personally am a Methodist and that is my roots, but I attended the Episcopal Church in the 60's and 70's. Quite frankly, I enjoyed the service, but they became so liberal in their political positions I had to return to my "comfort" level. Many others feel the same way and the Episcopal church is struggling in the US today. Let these denominations allow liberal/PC philosophy affect positions  and the membership will speak with their feet. 

[TboneAgain]

How is it that the Presbyterian Church has so much money lying around that they're invested in Caterpillar, H-P, and Motorola stocks? Aren't they sort of begging for IRS attention with all this?

[SVPete]

First, a caveat about the list of liberal "mainline" churches. It refers specifically to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). There are two other major Lutheran bodies in the US who are not theologically or politically liberal like ELCA. These would be the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (in which I grew up) and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Both are quite conservative theologically (and on one issue where church teaching touches real life (pun intended), both are Pro-Life, where ELCA is not). Like other "mainline Protestant" denominations, ELCA has been shrinking significantly for decades. The LCMS has been flat or declining slightly; not sure about WELS).

Yes, TbA, churches and religious organizations can, entirely in compliance with tax laws, save and invest money. And for reasons I think you'll understand. Some churches and religious organizations have pension funds. Local congregations can have long-term building funds, as can denominations (e.g. for their colleges and seminaries). A missions organization like Youth With A Mission can, for instance, save up money to buy and refurbish a merchant ship to start a ministry called Mercy Ships (which is now independent of YWAM). The key factors are long-term, and designated purposes (meaning that designated money must go for the designated purpose).

Private schools and colleges can do likewise, service organizations can, families' and companies' foundations can ... I'm sure this list is not as exhaustive as my brain is exhausted.

[SVPete]

Well ... maybe an on-topic post will jumpstart this thread?

What effect will this move by PCUSA have?

Israel will have zero problems getting the equipment and technologies it needs. If Cat, Mot, and HP stop selling to Israel there will be dozens of companies falling all over themselves to do so. And Israel has its own electronics companies, so Mot and HP could be replaced with domestic products.

The Pali Arabs won't be affected at all.

Cat, Mot, and HP sell so much all over the world to so many customers and have so many investors all over the world that this move by PCUSA will be little more than one of hundreds of daily press releases to cross some Investor Relations intern's desk.

Maybe PCUSA's people will be happier? Maybe ... some. These investments were almost certainly part of the portfolio for PCUSA's pension fund. They would have been chosen based on profitability and risk. Chances are, the money that was invested in Cat, Mot, and HP will be moved into less profitable and/or more risky investments. Unplanned, hasty, moves entail increased risk of things going awry. Depending on how poorly or well things work out, the move could have not effect. Or current retirees be unaffected, but those of the near future get ... . Or current retirees could get ... .

All in all, this was an almost entirely empty symbol, with some potential of harming PCUSA retirees. Now, if Israel wakes up to the silliness these Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc. are pulling, maybe Israel will give them and their groups a well-deserved boot out the door. Maybe those Presbyterian, etc. groups could move into Pali Arab territory and learn something of Pali Arab culture first hand (maybe at the business end of an AK or a filthy rusty knife!).

[Mountainshield]

Well ... maybe an on-topic post will jumpstart this thread?

What effect will this move by PCUSA have?

Israel will have zero problems getting the equipment and technologies it needs. If Cat, Mot, and HP stop selling to Israel there will be dozens of companies falling all over themselves to do so. And Israel has its own electronics companies, so Mot and HP could be replaced with domestic products.

The Pali Arabs won't be affected at all.

Cat, Mot, and HP sell so much all over the world to so many customers and have so many investors all over the world that this move by PCUSA will be little more than one of hundreds of daily press releases to cross some Investor Relations intern's desk.

Maybe PCUSA's people will be happier? Maybe ... some. These investments were almost certainly part of the portfolio for PCUSA's pension fund. They would have been chosen based on profitability and risk. Chances are, the money that was invested in Cat, Mot, and HP will be moved into less profitable and/or more risky investments. Unplanned, hasty, moves entail increased risk of things going awry. Depending on how poorly or well things work out, the move could have not effect. Or current retirees be unaffected, but those of the near future get ... . Or current retirees could get ... .

All in all, this was an almost entirely empty symbol, with some potential of harming PCUSA retirees. Now, if Israel wakes up to the silliness these Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc. are pulling, maybe Israel will give them and their groups a well-deserved boot out the door. Maybe those Presbyterian, etc. groups could move into Pali Arab territory and learn something of Pali Arab culture first hand (maybe at the business end of an AK or a filthy rusty knife!).

I think you hit the mark with "Maybe PCUSA's people will be happier?" It does not advance or even effect the Israel-Palestinian conflict so the people benefiting from this is the PCUSA people educing endorphins to themselves from feeling morally superior by taking the side of the Palestinians with no risk to themselves and enjoying the smell of their own farts.