Paul, Thecla and celebacy...the missing Biblical story?

[Traninit]

Again, I'm far from theologian, but saw a interesting History Channel version of Paul which was supposedly and conveniently omitted from the Bible because the masses did not appreciate the draconian demands of complete celibacy by Paul, and the story of Thecla not setting well with men because she was viewed as having the same social and religious status as men.

Seems Paul enticed Thecla, another man's fiancée, a virgin if I recall correctly, to buy into the preaching and belief in Paul's over-zealous condemnation of sexual intercourse...that it would even be better for a man not to marry than to marry and have sexual intercourse with his wife. Very odd.

Thecla's fiancée was so enraged with his fiancée following Paul as his disciple, that he had it arranged for her to be burned at the stake...by "Christians". God stopped the whole ordeal by immediately dowsing the fire with a downpour of rain. Thecla was saved. But yet again she faced execution (and this is the beginning of the feminist thingy). A man in Rome supposedly attempted to seduce Thecla, where she immediately chastised him and tore his garb publicly. For this, she was placed into the arena to be killed by lions. When the lions were released, the female lions protected her against the male lions. This caused the queen to spare her life yet again. Her problems were not over, and this is where I think lie the last straw which caused the ancient scholars to omit the story from the Bible: I cannot recall the reason for this in the story, but Thecla wanted to be baptized and was forced to enter a pool of water infested with killer sharks. God struck the pool with lightening, killing the sharks. Thecla, without a man to conduct the baptism, then entered the pool and baptized HERSELF. In those times, a woman was not allowed to baptize anyone.

So goes the story as I recall it. Sounds like some of the early Christians had a big problem with strong females!

I'm sure Kroz, will hone in on this one.

[kroz]

Traninit, the History challenge is a horrible place to get your theology!!!   

Paul gets a bum rap.  People totally rip the scripture out of context.  Paul NEVER commanded celibacy!

First of all, Paul says that people would be better off not to marry because of the current events!  This was written during the reign of Nero who was viciously persecuting Christians and burning them at the stake.  Of course it would be better if people did not marry and procreate at this specific point in history.  Paul himself was soon to lose his life at the hands of Nero.  He was grateful that he did not have a wife and children to leave destitute and penniless.  He was speaking out of concern for Christians throughout the Roman Empire.  It was not a command.  Please read the verses in your own Bible.  I Cor. chapter 7.

Catholics like to use this to support their theological tenet of Priestly celibacy.

However, the Apostle that they consider their first Pope was indeed married.  Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law as recorded by Matthew.   Matt. 8:14-15.  So I am not sure how they justify their strict forbidding of marriage for Priests. 

God Himself commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply.  That is God's original design and nothing has changed over time to change that.  Indeed it is unnatural for men and women to not marry and procreate.  God has designed us to desire that union.

But circumstances can sometimes keep that from happening.  So, whether we marry or remain single, we do so to the glory of God.

Now to your folklore of Thecia.   It makes no sense on many levels.

As I previously pointed out, Paul did NOT demand celibacy!

No "Queen" spared her life because there were no Queens at that point in history.  This was during the reign of the Caesars.... namely Nero.

The entire story drips of hyperbolic folklore.

But the real problem is that it was designed to undermine Christianity.  It is total heresy!

Traninit, please do not be so quick to jump into bed with extra biblical teachings.  They are worse than fiction.  They are dangerous.  Fact and fantasy intermingle in your mind and causes confusion that remains with you. 

Stick to the truth as sovereignly given to us in the Bible.  The very last chapter of the last Book of the New Testament (Revelation) offers a very strong warning from God to anyone who would add to or take away from the Word as it has been given to us.  Thus He marks the end of His divine revelation to us.  It puts a demonstrative period at the end of the New Testament.  So He graciously gave us His will for our lives and His heart for us.  It is between Genesis 1 and Revelation 21.  We need nothing more.  Indeed, we are warned against anything more!

[Charliemyboy]

I was attending Sunday services at St. Paul's Cathedral in London where the subject was actually St. Paul.  The minister (Or Priest, I guess) started in on how "Women should keep silent in church."  I did not.  I walked out of the service with my heels clicking on that beautiful black and white marble--all the way out the door. 
In my opinion, rules in church as elsewhere should be the same for men and women.

[walkstall]

I was attending Sunday services at St. Paul's Cathedral in London where the subject was actually St. Paul.  The minister (Or Priest, I guess) started in on how "Women should keep silent in church."  I did not.  I walked out of the service with my heels clicking on that beautiful black and white marble--all the way out the door. 
In my opinion, rules in church as elsewhere should be the same for men and women.

[carlb]

I was attending Sunday services at St. Paul's Cathedral in London where the subject was actually St. Paul.  The minister (Or Priest, I guess) started in on how "Women should keep silent in church."  I did not.  I walked out of the service with my heels clicking on that beautiful black and white marble--all the way out the door. 
In my opinion, rules in church as elsewhere should be the same for men and women.

So in the end, the obedient minister won, and you lost. Got it

[walkstall]

So in the end, the obedient minister won, and you lost. Got it

Sometimes actions speak louder than words.   I would say the congregation understood her actions.  Not everyone needs hit over the head with a baseball bat.   

[SueAnn]

Traninit, the History challenge is a horrible place to get your theology!!!   

Paul gets a bum rap.  People totally rip the scripture out of context.  Paul NEVER commanded celibacy!

First of all, Paul says that people would be better off not to marry because of the current events!  This was written during the reign of Nero who was viciously persecuting Christians and burning them at the stake.  Of course it would be better if people did not marry and procreate at this specific point in history.  Paul himself was soon to lose his life at the hands of Nero.  He was grateful that he did not have a wife and children to leave destitute and penniless.  He was speaking out of concern for Christians throughout the Roman Empire.  It was not a command.  Please read the verses in your own Bible.  I Cor. chapter 7.

Catholics like to use this to support their theological tenet of Priestly celibacy.

However, the Apostle that they consider their first Pope was indeed married.  Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law as recorded by Matthew.   Matt. 8:14-15.  So I am not sure how they justify their strict forbidding of marriage for Priests. 

God Himself commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply.  That is God's original design and nothing has changed over time to change that.  Indeed it is unnatural for men and women to not marry and procreate.  God has designed us to desire that union.

But circumstances can sometimes keep that from happening.  So, whether we marry or remain single, we do so to the glory of God.

Now to your folklore of Thecia.   It makes no sense on many levels.

As I previously pointed out, Paul did NOT demand celibacy!

No "Queen" spared her life because there were no Queens at that point in history.  This was during the reign of the Caesars.... namely Nero.

The entire story drips of hyperbolic folklore.

But the real problem is that it was designed to undermine Christianity.  It is total heresy!

Traninit, please do not be so quick to jump into bed with extra biblical teachings.  They are worse than fiction.  They are dangerous.  Fact and fantasy intermingle in your mind and causes confusion that remains with you. 

Stick to the truth as sovereignly given to us in the Bible.  The very last chapter of the last Book of the New Testament (Revelation) offers a very strong warning from God to anyone who would add to or take away from the Word as it has been given to us.  Thus He marks the end of His divine revelation to us.  It puts a demonstrative period at the end of the New Testament.  So He graciously gave us His will for our lives and His heart for us.  It is between Genesis 1 and Revelation 21.  We need nothing more.  Indeed, we are warned against anything more!

Kroz, Bravo. 

[je_freedom]

Traninit, the History challenge Channel is a horrible place to get your theology!!!   

PBS is not so good either.
On their show, "Secrets of the Dead"
one episode explored the accusation that Nero made when Rome burned -
namely that it was Christians who started the fire.

Never mind the fact that Nero himself had plenty of motivation to set the fire.
The section of Rome that burned down just happened to be
the section where Nero had already announced
that he wanted to build a grand public project

And never mind the fact that burning down cities
had never been a practice of Christians,
who always practiced charity.

Never mind those facts.
The episode's final conclusion was that Nero was right,
that it actually was the Christians who burned Rome!

That's how "trustworthy" the "mainstream" media is!
Claiming to "prove" assertions that are not even plausible!