Author Topic: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite  (Read 2956 times)

Offline alienhand

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My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« on: April 22, 2019, 11:16:59 PM »
It is said that God is perfect meaning complete and he is infinitely wise and knowledgeable. 

Ok!

Here is where I have a problem.  First, it makes no sense for God to both to be all meaning complete and being infinite.   If God has an infinite amount of knowledge which means an infinite amount of knowledge is possible to exist and therefore the concept of complete (not needing anything more) can't exist. 

Let's use a number series.  More specifically let's use counting numbers.  With counting numbers we can always add 1 more to it.  If we have the number 5000 we can add one more to make 5001 to 5002 and so on.  Can one have the complete set or all the counting numbers if it is possible to add one more to the series.  To have a complete series one must be able to determine an end.  If one can determine the end of a series one has the complete series.

With the alphabet we have a complete series.  Z is the last letter and A is the first letter.  I can tell you the entire series of the alphabet.  With numbers one can't.

God's wisdom and knowledge is infinite.  It can't be measured.  There is no end.  If there is no end and God's knowledge and wisdom is boundless then how is God completely knowledgeable and completely wise if knowledge and wisdom is boundless like the infinite number series of counting numbers?

How is complete wisdom and infinite wisdom non mutually exclusive?  This is another reason I have my doubts about the Biblical God. 

Or, am I misunderstanding something again?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 11:23:09 PM by alienhand »

Offline T Hunt

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2019, 12:45:41 AM »
It is said that God is perfect meaning complete and he is infinitely wise and knowledgeable. 

Ok!

Here is where I have a problem.  First, it makes no sense for God to both to be all meaning complete and being infinite.   If God has an infinite amount of knowledge which means an infinite amount of knowledge is possible to exist and therefore the concept of complete (not needing anything more) can't exist. 

Let's use a number series.  More specifically let's use counting numbers.  With counting numbers we can always add 1 more to it.  If we have the number 5000 we can add one more to make 5001 to 5002 and so on.  Can one have the complete set or all the counting numbers if it is possible to add one more to the series.  To have a complete series one must be able to determine an end.  If one can determine the end of a series one has the complete series.

With the alphabet we have a complete series.  Z is the last letter and A is the first letter.  I can tell you the entire series of the alphabet.  With numbers one can't.

God's wisdom and knowledge is infinite.  It can't be measured.  There is no end.  If there is no end and God's knowledge and wisdom is boundless then how is God completely knowledgeable and completely wise if knowledge and wisdom is boundless like the infinite number series of counting numbers?

How is complete wisdom and infinite wisdom non mutually exclusive?  This is another reason I have my doubts about the Biblical God. 

Or, am I misunderstanding something again?

I think u are inadvertently adding something to the bible. The brain does what are called cognitive distortions without us even realizing it.

You know how solar and taxed make you back everything up with facts and sources? Well Christian's do the same thing with the bible, if u make a claim u have to back it up with the bible. So I have to ask, where in the bible (chapter and verse) does it claim that knowledge is infinite? Where are you getting this idea from?

We have to remember that the bible is the source, not any humans interpretation. The church always says to everyone dont take the pastors word for it, look it up in the bible yourself. It's like the whole world has access to the Mueller report so each individual can see the source for himself and see if humans are distorting it. Sometimes distortions are on purpose, the result of evil ppl using the bible for their own ends, but more often it is our sinful minds using cognitive distortions to make things unclear.

Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2019, 01:31:58 AM »
I think u are inadvertently adding something to the bible. The brain does what are called cognitive distortions without us even realizing it.


Agreed!  The brain does do cognitive distortions.  No doubt about that! 

You know how solar and taxed make you back everything up with facts and sources? Well Christian's do the same thing with the bible, if u make a claim u have to back it up with the bible. So I have to ask, where in the bible (chapter and verse) does it claim that knowledge is infinite? Where are you getting this idea from?


Here are some verses. 

1 Kgs 4:29

God gave Solomon wisdom and very great discernment; the breadth of his understanding was as infinite as the sand on the seashore.

Job 11:7
Can you find out the deep things of God, or can you by searching find out the limits of the Almighty [explore His depths, ascend to His heights, extend to His breadths, and comprehend His infinite perfection]?

Psa 139:6
Your [infinite] knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high above me, I cannot reach it.

Psa 147:5
Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

I got some of these verses from here.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Infinite

Where do I get the idea knowledge is infinite?

B/c for God to have infinite knowledge which is what some of these verses seem to say unless again I'm not understanding them then logically infinite knowledge exists.

Think about it like this.  If I have jelly beans in a jar then a.  something called jelly beans exist.   b.  jars exist.  c.  There is a jar that has jelly beans.  If God has infinite wisdom and/or infinite knowledge then it must be logically possible for infinite wisdom and infinite knowledge to exist.  To have something that something must be possible to exist and it must exist.  If God is possible and it is possible for God to have infinite amount of knowledge and wisdom then infinite wisdom and infinite knowledge must exist.  Just like if if is possible for one to have jelly beans in a jar then those jelly beans being in that jar must exist. 

We have to remember that the bible is the source, not any humans interpretation.

Are we not still reading the Bible through our own human interpretation which is considered sinful and flawed?  And, let's also consider that some people have mental illnesses and autism spectrum disorders whom are reading the Bible as well.  Do you think they would be able to read it as intended or are they reading it through their sinful nature as well as their neurology?


The church always says to everyone dont take the pastors word for it, look it up in the bible yourself. It's like the whole world has access to the Mueller report so each individual can see the source for himself and see if humans are distorting it. Sometimes distortions are on purpose, the result of evil ppl using the bible for their own ends, but more often it is our sinful minds using cognitive distortions to make things unclear.

So, how do we tell what is clear or not?  How do we tell truth from error?  How do we tell that what we read from the Bible, get from any visions or what not comes from our own biases, from God, the devil or an upset stomach?  How do we suss out what is what?

Offline Solar

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 07:20:48 AM »
It is said that God is perfect meaning complete and he is infinitely wise and knowledgeable. 

Ok!

Here is where I have a problem.  First, it makes no sense for God to both to be all meaning complete and being infinite.   If God has an infinite amount of knowledge which means an infinite amount of knowledge is possible to exist and therefore the concept of complete (not needing anything more) can't exist. 

Let's use a number series.  More specifically let's use counting numbers.  With counting numbers we can always add 1 more to it.  If we have the number 5000 we can add one more to make 5001 to 5002 and so on.  Can one have the complete set or all the counting numbers if it is possible to add one more to the series.  To have a complete series one must be able to determine an end.  If one can determine the end of a series one has the complete series.

With the alphabet we have a complete series.  Z is the last letter and A is the first letter.  I can tell you the entire series of the alphabet.  With numbers one can't.

God's wisdom and knowledge is infinite.  It can't be measured.  There is no end.  If there is no end and God's knowledge and wisdom is boundless then how is God completely knowledgeable and completely wise if knowledge and wisdom is boundless like the infinite number series of counting numbers?

How is complete wisdom and infinite wisdom non mutually exclusive?  This is another reason I have my doubts about the Biblical God. 

Or, am I misunderstanding something again?
Perspective.
Look at you in the Universe, then take google satellite view and start zooming out, then once earth is a dot, look out into the vastness of the known universe, as you look at the furthest point of light, you know that the light you see no longer exists, right.
And that's just what you can see, now take Gods wisdom, the entity that created time and the vastness of space, you and your understanding of everything amounts to not even a dust speck on a single grain of sand in the vast universe that is the largest beach even imaginable and you're on one of it grains of sand, and you think anyone alive can understand what God knows?

Your question amounts to that of "Why" from a 3 year old. Try thinking for yourself for once, ask yourself answerable questions and work your way out instead of getting stuck in the weeds over something that was never your's to grasp in the first place. Keep in mind, you're just a dust speck no one will ever see.
Remember, you were placed here as a blank slate for a reason, if you had all the answers to life, you'd never grasp the meaning and beauty of life, and that is to explore it, enjoy it, not question its creators motives.
#WWG1WGA

Online walkstall

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2019, 08:02:50 AM »
You should not be bothered about your issues with God.  God will always be around, with or without you.

You should be worried about Gods issues with you. 
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.  I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.  ~ Ronald Reagan ~

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Offline Solar

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 08:13:59 AM »
You should not be bothered about your issues with God.  God will always be around, with or without you.

You should be worried about Gods issues with you.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 11:00:26 AM »
You should not be bothered about your issues with God.  God will always be around, with or without you.

You should be worried about Gods issues with you.

Well, you're right my friend and I hope he leads me to the right path.

Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 11:17:45 AM »
Perspective.
Look at you in the Universe, then take google satellite view and start zooming out, then once earth is a dot, look out into the vastness of the known universe, as you look at the furthest point of light, you know that the light you see no longer exists, right.


Ya and it's amazing b/c what we see out there occurred millions to billions of yrs ago.  Hmmm!  Let's say I come to the country side, we get a large extra cheese pizza and other toppings.  We talk about the wonders of life.  Millions to Billions of yrs from now aliens point their telescopes this way and see and hear us.  That is amazing.  Maybe the meaning of life is to eat a pizza w a friend.

And that's just what you can see, now take Gods wisdom, the entity that created time and the vastness of space, you and your understanding of everything amounts to not even a dust speck on a single grain of sand in the vast universe that is the largest beach even imaginable and you're on one of it grains of sand, and you think anyone alive can understand what God knows?


Maybe you're right!  Alright, I'll do this.  I will keep logic, reason, science to the natural world only and not go beyond.  Accept there is a cause for all and don't go beyond it and live my life the best I can.

Your question amounts to that of "Why" from a 3 year old. Try thinking for yourself for once, ask yourself answerable questions and work your way out instead of getting stuck in the weeds over something that was never your's to grasp in the first place. Keep in mind, you're just a dust speck no one will ever see.
Remember, you were placed here as a blank slate for a reason, if you had all the answers to life, you'd never grasp the meaning and beauty of life, and that is to explore it, enjoy it, not question its creators motives.

Maybe you're right!  Pizza? :biggrin:

Offline Solar

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 11:47:21 AM »
Ya and it's amazing b/c what we see out there occurred millions to billions of yrs ago.  Hmmm!  Let's say I come to the country side, we get a large extra cheese pizza and other toppings.  We talk about the wonders of life.  Millions to Billions of yrs from now aliens point their telescopes this way and see and hear us.  That is amazing.  Maybe the meaning of life is to eat a pizza w a friend.

Maybe you're right!  Alright, I'll do this.  I will keep logic, reason, science to the natural world only and not go beyond.  Accept there is a cause for all and don't go beyond it and live my life the best I can.

Maybe you're right!  Pizza? :biggrin:
Not a bad way to look at it, keeping it simple.
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Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2019, 02:22:52 AM »
You should not be bothered about your issues with God.  God will always be around, with or without you.

You should be worried about Gods issues with you.

Here is why you are right.



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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 03:28:19 AM »
Here is why you are right.




But God is not my BOSS.  God give me a choose every day how I am going to live my life.  God walks with me everyday, God is my friend and teacher.  I did not get this old walking on the wrong side of the street.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.  I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.  ~ Ronald Reagan ~

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 04:15:07 AM »

But God is not my BOSS.  God give me a choose every day how I am going to live my life.  God walks with me everyday, God is my friend and teacher.  I did not get this old walking on the wrong side of the street.

He makes the rules and sets the standards and sets the consequences for breaking those standards and consequences.  Sounds like a boss to me or a monarch or king.

Doesn't mean God is not your friend or teacher. 

So, in the end if he makes the rules and standards and consequences it doesn't matter what one thinks in end.  Any argument against his motives or his properties is moot if he exists.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 04:27:28 AM by alienhand »

Offline Solar

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 06:08:59 AM »
He makes the rules and sets the standards and sets the consequences for breaking those standards and consequences.  Sounds like a boss to me or a monarch or king.

Doesn't mean God is not your friend or teacher. 

So, in the end if he makes the rules and standards and consequences it doesn't matter what one thinks in end.  Any argument against his motives or his properties is moot if he exists.
Sure, if you want to break the laws of Natures God, other than that, God gives you free will to be just as stupid as you like. Which sometimes comes with a payment in the form of your life.
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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 06:34:11 AM »
He makes the rules and sets the standards and sets the consequences for breaking those standards and consequences.  Sounds like a boss to me or a monarch or king.

Doesn't mean God is not your friend or teacher. 

So, in the end if he makes the rules and standards and consequences it doesn't matter what one thinks in end.  Any argument against his motives or his properties is moot if he exists.

LOL God may not live in you as you have not open the door.  It's up to you to choose.  But like most things in your very young life that you chose other to do for you.  It will always be "some one" else's fault.  But yes you will have to live with the consequences.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.  I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.  ~ Ronald Reagan ~

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Is he Complete or Infinite
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 08:01:37 AM »
LOL God may not live in you as you have not open the door.  It's up to you to choose.  But like most things in your very young life that you chose other to do for you.  It will always be "some one" else's fault.  But yes you will have to live with the consequences.

But, if one has a sinful nature (as all men since all come up short) how exactly do we have the free will to choose God at all?  It's like telling a mentally ill person not to be mentally ill.   How can one choose salvation if one is in a sinful state?

 

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