Author Topic: My issues with God: Adam and Eve's Fall  (Read 291 times)

Offline alienhand

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My issues with God: Adam and Eve's Fall
« on: April 22, 2019, 02:08:32 AM »
The gist of the story of the first man and woman Adam and Eve is this.  God put them into the garden of Eden.  Supposedly Adam was created first and Eve was created from Adam's rib.  Adam got to name the animals.  And, they didn't realize they were naked.   They were told that they may eat any of the fruit from the garden except for the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. 

A serpent comes in and tempts them to eat from this tree.  They do.  They're punished and are evicted from the garden of Eden.  Before they do God asks them where they are.  Adam tells them he feels ashamed for being naked.  God asks them who told them they were naked and then God gets angry they disobeyed and punishes them.  This is the gist of it.

Now here are the issues I have and why the story makes no sense at all and he seems neglectful as well. 

God is all knowing and all powerful.  He would know what was, what is, what will be and all possibilities.   So, wouldn't God already know what this serpent would do?   And, why put this tree in the garden in the first place?  How does this make sense to do this?  It's sort of like a parent who leaves poison out like ant spray and tells the kid not to touch it especially one who is only a few months old or a year old.  Wouldn't one lock that shit up out of the kid's reach?

Adam and Eve before the fall are in such a state that they don't even realize they're naked.  If they didn't even understand this then how could they have understand the consequence of disobeying God or what death even meant?   A fit parent who sees a child about to poison himself or herself even if the child was being disobedient wouldn't the parent intervene?  If God was their father and our father then how was and is a fit father?   How was he not a neglectful parent? 

In fact, how were they expected to even handle the serpent at all?  How would they have known what proper response to give the serpent or b/c of their state even had the capacity to give any proper response other then what they did?

Online T Hunt

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Re: My issues with God: Adam and Eve's Fall
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2019, 10:40:50 AM »
This is actually a rather short answer, but there are other Christian sites that answer it as well.

https://answersingenesis.org/sin/why-did-god-create-mankind-if-he-knew-man-would-sin/

But really the question you shld ask first is why did God allow the devil(serpant) to sin?

https://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/angels-sin.html

Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Adam and Eve's Fall
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2019, 11:02:58 PM »
This is actually a rather short answer, but there are other Christian sites that answer it as well.

https://answersingenesis.org/sin/why-did-god-create-mankind-if-he-knew-man-would-sin/

But really the question you shld ask first is why did God allow the devil(serpant) to sin?

https://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/angels-sin.html

I don't know if I'm reading the answers correctly or not.  It seems what they're saying is God knows all and infinitely more then I and the rest of humanity do.  He doesn't think like people on Earth do and vice versa.  Basically, what it comes down to is father knows best b/c he is father. 

If I was the father of a child and I left a can of bug spray on the coffee table and my child drinks it and has to go the hospital and dies even though I tell the child not to touch it who is responsible?  Would I be made responsible by both the courts of law and the courts of public opinion.  You bet your ass,  more then likely I would be put in prison for negligent homicide.  I would be called irresponsible and a horrible parent.   But, since God is the all knowing, all wise omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God and our father whom we're made from his image he gets a pass. 

Do as I say don't do as I do! 

Online T Hunt

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Re: My issues with God: Adam and Eve's Fall
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 12:30:52 AM »
I don't know if I'm reading the answers correctly or not.  It seems what they're saying is God knows all and infinitely more then I and the rest of humanity do.  He doesn't think like people on Earth do and vice versa.  Basically, what it comes down to is father knows best b/c he is father. 

If I was the father of a child and I left a can of bug spray on the coffee table and my child drinks it and has to go the hospital and dies even though I tell the child not to touch it who is responsible?  Would I be made responsible by both the courts of law and the courts of public opinion.  You bet your ass,  more then likely I would be put in prison for negligent homicide.  I would be called irresponsible and a horrible parent.   But, since God is the all knowing, all wise omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God and our father whom we're made from his image he gets a pass. 

Do as I say don't do as I do!

Did u even read the articles?

You seem to be under the impression that a sinful human mind is capable of understanding God. Of grasping Gods ways. Of judging God. Your looking at the situation thru hindsight thru the bible. God was there and knew the future till the end of time already at the beginning. You are trying to use your sinful brain and sinful conscience to judge a perfect all knowing God.

Did God leave bug spray sitting around? No he didnt. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I dont think bug spray is a proper analogy. In your analogy the child doesnt understand that the bug spray is bad, yet Adam and eve fully understood that if u eat the fruit u die, God told them.
Yet even after they sinned God still gave up his only son to die for them and save them, they didnt have to do anything but believe. Only those who choose to reject God get abandoned by him.

Also were Adam and eve children? No but full grown adults, fully responsible for their actions, and fully capable of choosing perfection. In fact they probably knew more about the functioning of the universe than we do today.

Notice that God dint give Adam and eve a slew of rules like he did to the israelite(10 commandments, OT law) he only gave Adam and eve the one simple command, as a means of showing their father love and obedience. Without at least one simple rule to follow that you have the free will to break you cannot technically be showing your loving obediance. They would be more like robots, not children.

Plus part of the point is that we will never be able to fully understand God or his ways. We are literally incapable of properly judging God since we cannot understand everything. Think about it. U as an individual, how much of the combined knowledge of humanity are u as one individual able to hold in your mind at once? Not very much. While God can perceive every hair on every humans head throughout time all at once.

So to compare God and the tree of knowledge to a father leaving out a can of bug spray is wildly inaccurate. What we can trust is that God loves us(believers not unbelievers) and works all things towards our good, even if we are incapable of perceiving it.

If this doesnt answer your questions try let me know and I'll give it another shot.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 12:36:42 AM by T Hunt »

Offline alienhand

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Re: My issues with God: Adam and Eve's Fall
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2019, 03:00:53 AM »
Did u even read the articles?


I read the articles about 5 or 6 times.

And, to me the nonsensical.  I remember back in high school in which one of the tests we had to take to get our of high school was this essay test. It made us answer questions about a recycling program we had.  But, one problem.  We had no recycling program.  For the first few minutes I was confused into feelings of inaction.  It was sort of like feeling stunned.  When I read these articles I felt the exact same way.  The answers they give don't answer anything and leave me more confused. 


You seem to be under the impression that a sinful human mind is capable of understanding God. Of grasping Gods ways. Of judging God. Your looking at the situation thru hindsight thru the bible. God was there and knew the future till the end of time already at the beginning. You are trying to use your sinful brain and sinful conscience to judge a perfect all knowing God.

How can I use my mind in any other way?

Did God leave bug spray sitting around? No he didnt. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I dont think bug spray is a proper analogy. In your analogy the child doesnt understand that the bug spray is bad, yet Adam and eve fully understood that if u eat the fruit u die, God told them.


The problem with what you say is they didn't even know they were naked?  God had to ask them who told them they were naked?  If they didn't realize they were naked how would they even understand the concept of disobedience and death was?  How would they even be able to even effectively deal with this serpent and to deal with it properly.   They had no knowledge of good and evil before eating from that tree.  If disobedience is evil then how can they know and truthfully know that disobedience was evil and disobeying God was evil if they had no concept or understanding of good and evil?  The story makes absolutely no sense.

Yet even after they sinned God still gave up his only son to die for them and save them, they didnt have to do anything but believe. Only those who choose to reject God get abandoned by him.

We're all under a fallen and sinful state correct?  How is possible for us to choose to believe in Jesus under this state?  How do we have the free will to do this? 

Also were Adam and eve children? No but full grown adults, fully responsible for their actions, and fully capable of choosing perfection. In fact they probably knew more about the functioning of the universe than we do today.

I don't see how this was so.  Biologically, they were grown adults but mentally were they grown adults or had the mentality of children?  If they didn't even realize their own nudity then what else were they unaware of? 

Notice that God dint give Adam and eve a slew of rules like he did to the israelite(10 commandments, OT law) he only gave Adam and eve the one simple command, as a means of showing their father love and obedience. Without at least one simple rule to follow that you have the free will to break you cannot technically be showing your loving obediance. They would be more like robots, not children.



Under the conditions that existed for them was anything else possible besides disobedience to God?  Again, the story makes no sense and if it is true there are details missing within it.   

Plus part of the point is that we will never be able to fully understand God or his ways. We are literally incapable of properly judging God since we cannot understand everything. Think about it. U as an individual, how much of the combined knowledge of humanity are u as one individual able to hold in your mind at once? Not very much. While God can perceive every hair on every humans head throughout time all at once.


How are we component to obey him them as he intended?  If we can't comprehend his ways then how can we understand his words in the Bible at all and be expected to obey them.   

So to compare God and the tree of knowledge to a father leaving out a can of bug spray is wildly inaccurate. What we can trust is that God loves us(believers not unbelievers) and works all things towards our good, even if we are incapable of perceiving it.

I don't see why it is not. 

If this doesnt answer your questions try let me know and I'll give it another shot.

Please do!  I find the answers you give and those people give on those websites confusing as heck.  I don't think I'm following your train of thought properly. 

 

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