Conservative Political Forum

Religion Forum => Religion Forum => Topic started by: MFA on January 12, 2013, 01:44:42 PM

Title: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 12, 2013, 01:44:42 PM
...from a Christian point of view, before Creation, was God "holy"?
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 12, 2013, 02:32:14 PM
...from a Christian point of view, before Creation, was God "holy"?

I would say yes LOL  If he was always God Before and will be after time.  Someone had to keep the angels in check.  Is satan God alter ego?
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 12, 2013, 02:32:37 PM
But what does "holy" mean?
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 12, 2013, 02:49:48 PM
But what does "holy" mean?

What ever you would like it to mean.


Man made time.   In Gods time, there was no night or day.  Or why (English translation) did he say let there be light?
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 12, 2013, 02:54:58 PM
What ever you would like it to mean.

I can make it mean "Cuban cigar"?  God is a Cuban cigar?
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: Yawn on January 12, 2013, 03:04:12 PM
What ever you would like it to mean.


Man made time.   In Gods time, there was no night or day.  Or why (English translation) did he say let there be light?

He was speaking of light over the face of the earth. He said, befoire this, darkness covered the face of the earth Smoke and clouds covert the earth--enough that it wasw constantly dark.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 12, 2013, 03:14:00 PM
He was speaking of light over the face of the earth. He said, befoire this, darkness covered the face of the earth Smoke and clouds covert the earth--enough that it wasw constantly dark.

If you read Genesis 1 literally, there was no "face of the earth."  God created light before he separated the waters, dividing it by "the firmament" and before the lower waters separated to form dry land.  The darkness was "over the surface of the deep," not over the "face of the earth."
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: Yawn on January 12, 2013, 03:19:09 PM
The earth as a PLANET. Yes it was water covered.

THE POINT IS, God did NOT create light in this verse. He was exposing the surface of the earth to light.

You seem to argue just to argue rather than come to the truth.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 12, 2013, 03:20:57 PM
I can make it mean "Cuban cigar"?  God is a Cuban cigar?

IF you like.  God only ask me to believe in him.  If there is no beginning or no end for God.  Then time was make for man by man, in doing so it has changed more than once even in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 12, 2013, 03:30:32 PM
The earth as a PLANET. Yes it was water covered.

THE POINT IS, God did NOT create light in this verse. He was exposing the surface of the earth to light.

You seem to argue just to argue rather than come to the truth.

When God said, "Let there be light," there was light.  So you're saying that God did not "create light" at this point; that he was exposing an existing earth to light.

Guess what?  That's a possible interpretation.

It's certainly not the only one.  The Bible does not say what you say it does.  You are adding to it to clarify your interpretation.

Just want to clear that up...

Do you have a suggestion for the original question?  Do you have a possible definition for what "holiness" is or means?
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 12, 2013, 03:44:17 PM
IF you like.  God only ask me to believe in him.  If there is no beginning or no end for God.  Then time was make for man by man, in doing so it has changed more than once even in my lifetime.

See, I think "holy" actually means something significant, especially since God uses the word to describe himself.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 12, 2013, 04:02:30 PM
See, I think "holy" actually means something significant, especially since God uses the word to describe himself.

Very welll could be.  I think it was a way for God to communicating with man to describe himself.   Same as "I am Alpha and Omega", the beginning and the end.  I don't think man was able to communicate with God at his level.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: marv on January 13, 2013, 11:56:31 AM
If you read Genesis 1 literally, there was no "face of the earth."  God created light before he separated the waters, dividing it by "the firmament" and before the lower waters separated to form dry land.  The darkness was "over the surface of the deep," not over the "face of the earth."

Did this also include Mars or Venus, or any other planet even in any other stellar system?

Just asking.......
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: kramarat on January 13, 2013, 01:23:35 PM
Words, (all words), including the word "Holy", are for our benefit; not for God's.

Words are necessary to help us to comprehend something that we are incapable of comprehending.

So no. In my opinion, God was not Holy before the creation of man.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 13, 2013, 01:48:53 PM
Words, (all words), including the word "Holy", are for our benefit; not for God's.

Words are necessary to help us to comprehend something that we are incapable of comprehending.

So no. In my opinion, God was not Holy before the creation of man.

So God did not have to tell the angels in heaven he was number one.   It was just for the creation of man that God became Holy.   
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: kramarat on January 13, 2013, 02:13:11 PM
So God did not have to tell the angels in heaven he was number one.   It was just for the creation of man that God became Holy.

As far as I know, God always was, and always will be. There's lots of stuff I don't know. Anything I say about things like this, is pure speculation. I reserve the right to be wrong. :smile:
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 13, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Did this also include Mars or Venus, or any other planet even in any other stellar system?

Just asking.......

Wellllll...I started the sentence with..."If you read Genesis 1 literally...," which it appeared the poster to whom I was responding was doing.  If you read it literally, then it doesn't account for other planets at all (which doesn't necessarily imply that God didn't create other planets).
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 13, 2013, 03:00:38 PM
Words, (all words), including the word "Holy", are for our benefit; not for God's.

Words are necessary to help us to comprehend something that we are incapable of comprehending.

So no. In my opinion, God was not Holy before the creation of man.

Interesting...because you got to the heart of the question.  "Holy" means "separate" or "distinct."  Many Christians would say that "holy" is little more specific--"separate from evil or sin."

Before Creation, sin does not exist.  So how can God be defined as "separate" from it?  Even in the general sense, if "holy" means "distinct," then...before Creation, distinct from what?
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: kramarat on January 13, 2013, 03:18:35 PM
Interesting...because you got to the heart of the question.  "Holy" means "separate" or "distinct."  Many Christians would say that "holy" is little more specific--"separate from evil or sin."

Before Creation, sin does not exist.  So how can God be defined as "separate" from it?  Even in the general sense, if "holy" means "distinct," then...before Creation, distinct from what?

Sin does not exist before creation...........as we know it.

In order to even begin to scratch the surface of what God is, we must personify Him. Even the word "Him" is a misnomer. It designates God as a human male; which we all know is false.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 13, 2013, 03:29:11 PM
As far as I know, God always was, and always will be. There's lots of stuff I don't know. Anything I say about things like this, is pure speculation. I reserve the right to be wrong.  :smile:

 :lol:  Don't we all. 
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 13, 2013, 03:38:18 PM
Sin does not exist before creation...........as we know it.

In order to even begin to scratch the surface of what God is, we must personify Him. Even the word "Him" is a misnomer. It designates God as a human male; which we all know is false.

Actually, it doesn't.  For arguments' sake, there are animals that are male that we call "him."  Also, most other languages have feminine and masculine nouns that are irrelevant to sexuality.  But in the Bible, God primarily reveals himself as "Father"--the "other" parent that loves.  We are naturally connected to our mothers; our father is the "other" parent that loves.  But besides his primary revelation as Father, he also communicates feminine qualities as well.  But you're right; God is not a human male.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 13, 2013, 03:42:15 PM
Interesting...because you got to the heart of the question.  "Holy" means "separate" or "distinct."  Many Christians would say that "holy" is little more specific--"separate from evil or sin."

Before Creation, sin does not exist.   So how can God be defined as "separate" from it?  Even in the general sense, if "holy" means "distinct," then...before Creation, distinct from what?

So Lucifer, or what every you would like to call him/it did not exist.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: kramarat on January 13, 2013, 03:45:48 PM
Actually, it doesn't.  For arguments' sake, there are animals that are male that we call "him."  Also, most other languages have feminine and masculine nouns that are irrelevant to sexuality.  But in the Bible, God primarily reveals himself as "Father"--the "other" parent that loves.  We are naturally connected to our mothers; our father is the "other" parent that loves.  But besides his primary revelation as Father, he also communicates feminine qualities as well.  But you're right; God is not a human male.

The Bible had to be put into a context that we could understand. And yet, the Bible is not perfect..........or at least our interpretation isn't perfect. A lot of blood has been spilled over biblical interpretation.

Even as we speak, Yawn is spinning his little brain into knots. :smile:
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 13, 2013, 04:19:20 PM
So Lucifer, or what every you would like to call him/it did not exist.

The Accuser (lit., "the satan") exists.  Exactly in what form?  I don't know.  Did he "invent sin" before Creation?  Possibly.  Guesswork.  "Lucifer," however, is a mistranslation.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: kramarat on January 13, 2013, 04:25:57 PM
The Accuser (lit., "the satan") exists.  Exactly in what form?  I don't know.  Did he "invent sin" before Creation?  Possibly.  Guesswork.  "Lucifer," however, is a mistranslation.

I know it sounds cliche, but I like the "Star Wars" analogy to good vs evil, God vs satan.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 13, 2013, 04:27:49 PM
I know it sounds cliche, but I like the "Star Wars" analogy to good vs evil, God vs satan.

The problem with that is that it is dualist.  (The) satan is not God's equal.  Neither are the two different sides of the same coin (like the "light side" and the "dark side" of the Force).
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: kramarat on January 13, 2013, 04:40:44 PM
The problem with that is that it is dualist.  (The) satan is not God's equal.  Neither are the two different sides of the same coin (like the "light side" and the "dark side" of the Force).

It's certainly not a perfect analogy.

Nor would I ever pretend to understand it all. satan is not God's equal, and yet God allows evil to exist.

Without the existence of evil; good would have no meaning. The Star Wars thing is an over simplification, but human nature itself is dualistic; both sides reside in us. Choices are constantly being made. Making the right ones is where it sometimes gets difficult.
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: MFA on January 13, 2013, 05:16:28 PM
It's certainly not a perfect analogy.

Nor would I ever pretend to understand it all. satan is not God's equal, and yet God allows evil to exist.

Without the existence of evil; good would have no meaning. The Star Wars thing is an over simplification, but human nature itself is dualistic; both sides reside in us. Choices are constantly being made. Making the right ones is where it sometimes gets difficult.

...and I still like Star Wars. :cool:
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: kramarat on January 13, 2013, 05:20:49 PM
...and I still like Star Wars. :cool:

Me too. As well as the moral lessons from the original Star Trek...............despite Captain Kirk's wandering eye. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Interesting question...
Post by: walkstall on January 13, 2013, 06:32:01 PM
The Accuser (lit., "the satan") exists.  Exactly in what form?  I don't know.  Did he "invent sin" before Creation?  Possibly.  Guesswork.  "Lucifer," however, is a mistranslation.

Hmm....My understand, there are more names for Satan in the Bible than for anyone else except Jesus.  There are over 40 names for him/it in the New King James Version of the Bible.  I am sure there more as we find more data. 

i am sure there more then one way into the kingdom of God.  But that's just my way of thinking.