Author Topic: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World  (Read 5552 times)

Offline Yawn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3262
How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« on: January 12, 2013, 06:42:59 PM »
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her! —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath. —Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 211.

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power. –Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

In A Doctrinal Catechism,


Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. –Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday! –p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937.  (First published in 1566)

In the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments. —Art. 28.

God warned that a blasphemous power would “seek to change times and laws,” and the Catholic Church openly admits doing it, even boasts about it. In a sermon at the Council of Trent in 1562, the Archbishop of Reggia, Caspar del Fossa, claimed that the Catholic Church’s whole authority is based upon the fact that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Does this not fulfill the prophecies of Daniel and Paul? Source

Offline MFA

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 288
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 06:55:37 PM »
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

And...it had never happened before that...?

By the same argument, the Roman Catholic Church "chose which books to be in the Bible."  Is that the book that you use?  The ones that the Roman Catholic Church decided were scripture?

Quote
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Misleading.  Because you're attacking the Roman Catholic Church, but the answer to your question says the Church, which, essentially, is true.  Unless, of course, you equate "the Church" with "the Roman Catholic Church."  But you don't, do you?

Quote
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her! —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

Yeah, I'm not so sure it's as simple as that.  That's an oversimplification, regardless of who said it.  The Church, however, did have the power to make decisions like that, as guided by the Holy Spirit--if you trust what the Bible says.  This is what "binding and loosing" means.  It is also evidenced by the expectations given for gentiles in the Council of Jerusalem (presided over by, not Peter, but James).

Quote
In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath. —Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 211.

Funny...the Bible doesn't say that we are "obliged to keep" Sundays and other "holy days" to be set apart for God's worship.  That's actually counter to both the explicit and implicit instruction of scripture.

Quote
In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.

That's circular.

Quote
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power. –Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

That's circular, too.

Quote
In A Doctrinal Catechism,[/b]

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. –Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

Circular, again.  By the same argument, the Crusades were godly because they happened.  Ridiculous argument.

Quote
In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday! –p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937.  (First published in 1566)

That's a different argument altogether.  This is talking about "Sabbath rest" on Sunday.  Not about Sunday worship.

Quote
In the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments. —Art. 28.

God warned that a blasphemous power would “seek to change times and laws,” and the Catholic Church openly admits doing it, even boasts about it. In a sermon at the Council of Trent in 1562, the Archbishop of Reggia, Caspar del Fossa, claimed that the Catholic Church’s whole authority is based upon the fact that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Does this not fulfill the prophecies of Daniel and Paul? Source

The Roman Catholic Church boasts about what it didn't do.  It's taking credit for something it has no right or credibility to take credit for.

But, hey, I don't care so much.  I'm not Roman Catholic.

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 07:14:58 AM »
All religions that have Jesus and His Father at the center, are "right".

Unfortunately, the human ego is capable of over complicating things, and, (through religion), thinking that they are on equal footing with Christ, or that they are God's earthly representatives. This is impossible.

As silly as this notion is......................it is forgiven. It's the reason that Jesus came here.

What are you so scared of?

Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself?

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 07:22:06 AM »
I was raised as a Roman Catholic, and although I no longer practice it, you're beginning to hurt my feelings.

If you wish to tempt me into giving you a public bitch slapping...............keep it up. :glare:

Offline Murph

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
  • One people, one nation, one leader.
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 07:43:42 AM »
I am a strong Catholic- why do you intend to try to divide conservatives based on religion?

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 07:49:54 AM »
I am a strong Catholic- why do you intend to try to divide conservatives based on religion?

Typically, when people resort to the tactics that Yawn is using, it is a reflection of their own insecurity within their faith.

I'd recommend prayer.

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 08:25:05 AM »
Quite frankly, it's the same tactic that liberals use.

A persistent hammering on the "wrongness" of others......

All while cloaked in a shroud of self righteous indignation. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 08:37:11 AM by kramarat »

Online Solar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57038
  • Gender: Male
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2013, 09:09:51 AM »
It's for these various reasons I subscribe to no Religion and never will again.

As was Pointed out in a Southpark episode, God decided the Mormons were correct. :lol:

Though God knows where my heart is, and if that's good enough for him....
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2013, 11:51:02 AM »
It's for these various reasons I subscribe to no Religion and never will again.

As was Pointed out in a Southpark episode, God decided the Mormons were correct. :lol:

Though God knows where my heart is, and if that's good enough for him....

I don't have a problem with any religion.

On the other hand, when people like Yawn or the Westboro Baptist Church, decide to use their religion as a platform from which to launch attacks against others; I WILL step out of my happy place and set them straight. :wink:

Offline Yawn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3262
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2013, 03:31:34 PM »
Good allah, you're sure full of yourself, aren't you.

Again, you have NOTHING to offer since you openly reject the Bible as God's word. Therefore, you only have your opinion--everybody's got one.

You're just angry that the church you love more than your Creator has been exposed. I published their own words, and THAT makes you angry. Get over yourself. Not everybody's going to worship at the feet of your pope when that church openly admits to "changing" the Law of God.  The Prophet Daniel warned that THAT was the mark of the ANTICHRIST. The Catholic Church doesn't speak for me, any more than MudHaqmMud speaks for me.  You want to convince me of something, do it from the pages of God's Word. If you can't it's nothing more than y6our own worthless opinion.

Offline MFA

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 288
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2013, 03:39:03 PM »
Good allah, you're sure full of yourself, aren't you.

Again, you have NOTHING to offer since you openly reject the Bible as God's word. Therefore, you only have your opinion--everybody's got one.

You're just angry that the church you love more than your Creator has been exposed. I published their own words, and THAT makes you angry. Get over yourself. Not everybody's going to worship at the feet of your pope when that church openly admits to "changing" the Law of God.  The Prophet Daniel warned that THAT was the mark of the ANTICHRIST. The Catholic Church doesn't speak for me, any more than MudHaqmMud speaks for me.  You want to convince me of something, do it from the pages of God's Word. If you can't it's nothing more than y6our own worthless opinion.

To whom are you speaking?

Your accusation seems odd since your initial post had a whole lot of sources that were not "from the pages of God's Word."

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 03:39:49 PM »
Good allah, you're sure full of yourself, aren't you.

Again, you have NOTHING to offer since you openly reject the Bible as God's word. Therefore, you only have your opinion--everybody's got one.

You're just angry that the church you love more than your Creator has been exposed. I published their own words, and THAT makes you angry. Get over yourself. Not everybody's going to worship at the feet of your pope when that church openly admits to "changing" the Law of God.  The Prophet Daniel warned that THAT was the mark of the ANTICHRIST. The Catholic Church doesn't speak for me, any more than MudHaqmMud speaks for me.  You want to convince me of something, do it from the pages of God's Word. If you can't it's nothing more than y6our own worthless opinion.

I've got a better idea.

I'm gonna shut up, sit back, and watch you continue to sling your poison.

The good folks at Westboro can quote scripture too................all day long, and without cribsheets.

You must be very proud of yourself.

Offline Yawn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3262
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 03:43:45 PM »
I wonder if you're aware that your beloved church put out "hits" on any of the Church of God caught " Judaizing" on the Sabbath (that is, HONORING God by refraining from work on the Sabbath).

Quote
CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

You think I'm going to be put on defense when the Catholics and the daughter churches ATTACK God's clear COMMANDMENTS?! HELL NO!  :cursing:

That church has been at war against Christ's LITTLE Flock for 2,000 years, and you attack me for telling you the truth--which neither you (of course you can't) and MFA can defend, so you attack me PERSONALLY because that's all you have on this issue.

"Because I tell you the truth, I have become your enemy?"


Offline Yawn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3262
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 03:51:08 PM »
I've got a better idea.

I'm gonna shut up, sit back, and watch you continue to sling your poison.

The good folks at Westboro can quote scripture too................all day long, and without cribsheets.

You must be very proud of yourself.

Your new bullying tactic is to associate me with a group YOU have more in common with than I do. But what else do you have? You can't defend breaking the sabbath command, so you attack the Messenger.

"Because I tell you the truth, I have become your enemy"

Online walkstall

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23257
  • Gender: Male
  • WYSIWYG
Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2013, 03:56:02 PM »

"Because I tell you the truth, I have become your enemy"

ONLY in your own mind.    WHAT you believe in on your shoulders, as it should be.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.  I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.  ~ Ronald Reagan ~

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

 

Powered by EzPortal