Author Topic: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World  (Read 5563 times)

Offline Yawn

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2013, 03:56:48 PM »
WHY are you so angry that I QUOTED the teachings of your own Church and how they BRAG that they have the power of the Antichrist (to change Times & Laws)?

Quote
He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.--Daniel 7:25

A true CHRISTIAN will look into something to prove whether or not it is true. You simply get angry. That's because you love the organization more than your Creator. THAT is what separates the Christians from all of the other "good" people (yes, there are many "good" people who rebel against God).

Oh how I wish you had THI(S spirit:

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Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Offline kramarat

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 03:57:32 PM »
Your new bullying tactic is to associate me with a group YOU have more in common with than I do. But what else do you have? You can't defend breaking the sabbath command, so you attack the Messenger.

"Because I tell you the truth, I have become your enemy"

You are not my enemy.

After reading this thread, along with your posts, I suspect that you are your own worst enemy.

What you are engaged in, is better known as projection:

b : the attribution of one's own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety

As I stated earlier; it is a state of mind that I usually associate with left wing liberals.

Offline Yawn

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 04:12:31 PM »
AGAIN you show that you cannot deal with the ISSUE of your church CHANGING the Sabbath. You cannot justify it and you're angry with me and attack me personally because I simply point out that they did it.

You really are a poor debater. I talk about ISSUES and you, in EVERY post, attack me personally.

Offline Yawn

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2013, 04:14:39 PM »
Refresher for those who can't remember what the topic of a tread is:
(sorry, rat, but these are the teachings of that Church. Not mine. Don't hate me because I'm the Messenger)

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her! —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath. —Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 211.

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power. –Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

In A Doctrinal Catechism,

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. –Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday! –p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937.  (First published in 1566)

In the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments. —Art. 28.

God warned that a blasphemous power would “seek to change times and laws,” and the Catholic Church openly admits doing it, even boasts about it. In a sermon at the Council of Trent in 1562, the Archbishop of Reggia, Caspar del Fossa, claimed that the Catholic Church’s whole authority is based upon the fact that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Does this not fulfill the prophecies of Daniel and Paul? Source

Offline kramarat

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2013, 04:18:12 PM »
AGAIN you show that you cannot deal with the ISSUE of your church CHANGING the Sabbath. You cannot justify it and you're angry with me and attack me personally because I simply point out that they did it.

You really are a poor debater. I talk about ISSUES and you, in EVERY post, attack me personally.

There's nothing to debate. This entire thread is an attack.

Seriously dude............you need to settle down.

Have you ever considered putting your Bible down, and asking God for some personal direction?

You may think I'm the spawn of satan, but you might want to give it a try. God is available outside the pages of the Bible.

Offline Yawn

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2013, 04:22:55 PM »
There's nothing to debate. This entire thread is an attack against Carl, the OP

Again you attack me rather than deal with the TEACHING of your Church.

THIS thread is about the Catholic Church's Teaching on how THEY Changed Times & Laws

Respond to the teaching of the Church, not your FEELINGS about me please:


In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her! —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath. —Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 211.

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power. –Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

In A Doctrinal Catechism,

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. –Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday! –p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937.  (First published in 1566)

In the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments. —Art. 28.

God warned that a blasphemous power would “seek to change times and laws,” and the Catholic Church openly admits doing it, even boasts about it. In a sermon at the Council of Trent in 1562, the Archbishop of Reggia, Caspar del Fossa, claimed that the Catholic Church’s whole authority is based upon the fact that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Does this not fulfill the prophecies of Daniel and Paul? Source

Offline MFA

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2013, 04:23:34 PM »
A true CHRISTIAN will look into something to prove whether or not it is true. You simply get angry. That's because you love the organization more than your Creator. THAT is what separates the Christians from all of the other "good" people (yes, there are many "good" people who rebel against God).

You say that you don't accuse or judge people.  That others are doing it to you.

Can you not see the accusation in this post?  That you accuse someone of not being "a true CHRISTIAN"?  That someone "loves an organization more than his/her Creator"?

If you cannot see this as judgment and accusation then you are blind to your own behavior.

Offline kramarat

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2013, 04:31:26 PM »
Again you attack me rather than deal with the TEACHING of your Church.

THIS thread is about the Catholic Church's Teaching on how THEY Changed Times & Laws

Respond to the teaching of the Church, not your FEELINGS about me please:


In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her! —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath. —Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 211.

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power. –Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

In A Doctrinal Catechism,

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. –Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday! –p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937.  (First published in 1566)

In the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments. —Art. 28.

God warned that a blasphemous power would “seek to change times and laws,” and the Catholic Church openly admits doing it, even boasts about it. In a sermon at the Council of Trent in 1562, the Archbishop of Reggia, Caspar del Fossa, claimed that the Catholic Church’s whole authority is based upon the fact that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Does this not fulfill the prophecies of Daniel and Paul? Source

My church?

Who in the hell is Carl?

Over and out dude. Good luck to you; and no hard feelings here. I'll see you out on the political forum.

Offline Yawn

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2013, 04:35:58 PM »
You say that you don't accuse or judge people.  That others are doing it to you.

Can you not see the accusation in this post?  That you accuse someone of not being "a true CHRISTIAN"?  That someone "loves an organization more than his/her Creator"?

If you cannot see this as judgment and accusation then you are blind to your own behavior.

I see you want to play again  :laugh:

Judgment? Damn right! But it's done out of love. I love both of you enough to speak the truth even if it pisses you off and rat refuses to even touch the TOPIC but rather attack me personally (as you just did too).

If the Commandment says, "Thou shalt not murder", and a church says, "Murder is okay with God", Are you being "judgmental" because YOU warn them that Thou shalt not murder is a COMMANDMENT of God? And an unrepentent MURDERER will pay a penalty for that SIN?  Or is it love????

You are showing LOVE by telling the truth.

You do understand, don't you, that the Sabbath COMMAND is a part of the SAME law that says You shall not murder.

Seriously, you two should look deep within and really wonder why this one COMMANDMENT, above all others, has you so angry?  They are all a part of the SAME law!

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God (not the Jews): in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet anything that is youre neighbor's

Offline kramarat

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2013, 05:00:41 PM »
I see you want to play again  :laugh:

Judgment? Damn right! But it's done out of love. I love both of you enough to speak the truth even if it pisses you off and rat refuses to even touch the TOPIC but rather attack me personally (as you just did too).

If the Commandment says, "Thou shalt not murder", and a church says, "Murder is okay with God", Are you being "judgmental" because YOU warn them that Thou shalt not murder is a COMMANDMENT of God? And an unrepentent MURDERER will pay a penalty for that SIN?  Or is it love????

You are showing LOVE by telling the truth.

You do understand, don't you, that the Sabbath COMMAND is a part of the SAME law that says You shall not murder.

Seriously, you two should look deep within and really wonder why this one COMMANDMENT, above all others, has you so angry?  They are all a part of the SAME law!

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God (not the Jews): in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet anything that is youre neighbor's

Thou shalt not kill............

Are all of our military personel that took a life, going to hell?

Cattle are not allowed to work on the sabbath? What constitutes work?

I am not teasing you or making fun of your beliefs.

BUT..............over the course of history, the attempts, (by humans), to literally translate the Bible, has resulted in some horrific episodes.

I AM a Christian. It is you that has made the determination that I am not good enough.

Offline Murph

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2013, 05:07:28 PM »
This thread summarized: Yawn is holier than thou.

Offline kramarat

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2013, 05:18:43 PM »
This thread summarized: Yawn is holier than thou.

I guess so.

Apparently there's a passage in the Bible that grants Yawn the authority to condemn an entire religion, and everyone that follows it.

My responses would be the same if he were talking about Jewish people. He's not on a healthy path.

Offline Yawn

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2013, 05:22:04 PM »
Another OFFICIAL Response from the Catholic Church:

    Thomaston, Georgia
    May 22, 1954

    Pop Pius XII
    Rome, Italy

    Dear Sir;
    Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of?  They say you
    changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called, Christian Sunday:
    Identical with the First Day of the week.  If so, when did you make the
    change, and by what authority?

    Yours very truely,
    J. L. Day


The Reply:

THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
180 Wabash Ave., Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessing of Pop Pius XII)

    Dear sir:
    Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the
    Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

>     (1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith
>   and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath.
    The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe Sunday, stultifies
    them in the eyes of every thinking man.

      (2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith.
    Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church,
    as a rule to guide us.  We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach
    and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of
    the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday.
    We frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she
    made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried
    priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic
    marriages, and a thousand other laws.

      (3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are
    the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their
    teachings.  It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches,
    in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sundays of which there
    is nothing in the Bible.

    With best wishes
    Peter R. Tramer, Editor

Offline MFA

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2013, 05:22:58 PM »
I see you want to play again  :laugh:

Judgment? Damn right! But it's done out of love.

So that's okay then.

Quote
I love both of you enough to speak the truth even if it pisses you off and rat refuses to even touch the TOPIC but rather attack me personally (as you just did too).

But you claim that others judge you; why do you not presume that they do not do it out of love?  And what on earth makes you think that your posts piss me off?

Quote
If the Commandment says, "Thou shalt not murder", and a church says, "Murder is okay with God", Are you being "judgmental" because YOU warn them that Thou shalt not murder is a COMMANDMENT of God? And an unrepentent MURDERER will pay a penalty for that SIN?  Or is it love????

You are showing LOVE by telling the truth.

Okay.

Quote
You do understand, don't you, that the Sabbath COMMAND is a part of the SAME law that says You shall not murder.

And the same law that says don't eat pork and don't wear clothing made of mixed fabrics.  Where, in the Bible, are "the 10" distinguished from the rest of the law as applying for perpetuity but the rest is not?

Quote
Seriously, you two should look deep within and really wonder why this one COMMANDMENT, above all others, has you so angry?

I'm not angry.

Quote
They are all a part of the SAME law!

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God (not the Jews): in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet anything that is youre neighbor's

"...I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law." (Galatians 5:3; note that Paul is using circumcision as an example of "keeping the law," but it can be applied to any part of the law).

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." (James 2:10)

Offline Yawn

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Re: How the Other Church Imposed Sunday Worship on the World
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2013, 05:23:43 PM »
I guess so.

Apparently there's a passage in the Bible that grants Yawn the authority to condemn an entire religion, and everyone that follows it.

My responses would be the same if he were talking about Jewish people. He's not on a healthy path.

I keep posting the words of the Catholic Church, and Rat keeps talking about his FEELINGS about me (that's the LIBERAL defense mechanism).  He can't debate a topic so he attacks the messenger. Can't blame him though. Their actions are indefensible.  :lol:

 

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